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[Sir Tigger KC]

I wonder how many people in the Republic of Ireland voted to change their countries abortion laws that wouldn't be here to vote, if Ireland had had similar abortion laws to the UK for years?   

[Sir Tigger KC]

For the record I am not anti abortion and am pro choice, but I do think that the 24 week limit here in the UK should be looked at. 

As to my original question.  Now the focus has shifted to Northern Ireland, I saw a statement made by a DUP MP where he said that there are 100,000 people alive today in NI, who wouldn't be here today if abortion was easily available in NI.  How he knows this I don't know. 

Maybe there are records of women travelling from NI to GB for abortions. 

[Gaffers]

But wouldn't that be the case for any country that chose to change the law based on a referendum or election?

[Sir Tigger KC]

Yes I guess so.  I like an irony though, and thought it was an interesting concept. 

Didn't want or mean to start a controversial thread about the rights and wrongs of abortion or anything though.     

[Nick W]

Yes I guess so.  I like an irony though, and thought it was an interesting concept. 

Didn't want or mean to start a controversial thread about the rights and wrongs of abortion or anything though. 

only if you can 'prove' how they are one of the causes of global warming climate change whatever the opps they're calling it this week.

[Sir Tigger KC]

Yes I guess so.  I like an irony though, and thought it was an interesting concept. 

Didn't want or mean to start a controversial thread about the rights and wrongs of abortion or anything though. 

only if you can 'prove' how they are one of the causes of global warming climate change whatever the opps they're calling it this week.

All these Irishwomen from North and South coming over to GB have a carbon footprint?   

[Lizzie Zoom]

I am definitely not getting involved in this discussion that will become an increasingly "hot potato" for many

[STEMO]

Well I'm getting involved. Women should have free choice...it's their body. Religion should never be able to influence the laws of the land.
But I do agree with Tigger on the time limit. 24 weeks is awful, it's a fully formed child by then. 12 weeks should be the limit, or 18 for medical reasons, certainly no longer without a very good reason.

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

Well I'm getting involved. Women should have free choice...it's their body. Religion should never be able to influence the laws of the land.
But I do agree with Tigger on the time limit. 24 weeks is awful, it's a fully formed child by then. 12 weeks should be the limit, or 18 for medical reasons, certainly no longer without a very good reason.

But the state of being pregnant means that they have another body inside their body.
Lets get controversial. 

I agree that 24 weeks is too high. I believe it involves ripping off heads/ arms/ legs to remove it ? How people trained to save lives can do that beggars belief.
I believe that up to 12 weeks involves taking a couple of tablets and isn't surgical ?
There is now  pressure being applied by certain groups to allow abortion up to the point of labour !
The woman in charge of these things in the UK (head of RCM rings a bell ?) is arguing in favour of this, and I seem to remember Hilary Clinton doing similar during her election campaign.

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

On the subject of the vote in the Irish Republic. It shows how much that country has changed in the last 30 years or so.
I can well remember when the Catholic church had total power there, and no -one ever dared to challenge or argue with a priest.
The poorest people I have ever seen would put their last few coppers at the little shrines to the virgin Mary which were scattered all over the country, even if it meant their families going hungry.
The priest would then come along and scoop it up and put it in his pocket. Of course every penny was used for good causes. 
The system broke down somewhat when my uncle Foster was there on holiday though.
He would make a point of getting there before the Priest and collect it up to spend in the pub .

[STEMO]

On the subject of the vote in the Irish Republic. It shows how much that country has changed in the last 30 years or so.
I can well remember when the Catholic church had total power there, and no -one ever dared to challenge or argue with a priest.
The poorest people I have ever seen would put their last few coppers at the little shrines to the virgin Mary which were scattered all over the country, even if it meant their families going hungry.
The priest would then come along and scoop it up and put it in his pocket. Of course every penny was used for good causes. 
The system broke down somewhat when my uncle Foster was there on holiday though.
He would make a point of getting there before the Priest and collect it up to spend in the pub .

Sweeties for young boys?

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

Something like that, I would imagine.  Or it got spent in exactly the same place regardless, just by a different person.
I think you and my Uncle Foster would have got on. He was in the Army in the 60,s and was a complete rogue.
Spent more time in the glass house than anywhere else. 
He came to visit us "on leave" when I was a kid, as his barracks were only about 20 miles away.
One day Mum noticed a car with two smartly dressed blokes in it, who were constantly watching our house.
Eventually, they hammered on the door and came in and arrested him. He wasn't on leave, he had broken a Sergeants jaw with his rifle but and then legged it. 

[STEMO]

Something like that, I would imagine.  Or it got spent in exactly the same place regardless, just by a different person.
I think you and my Uncle Foster would have got on. He was in the Army in the 60,s and was a complete rogue.
Spent more time in the glass house than anywhere else. 
He came to visit us "on leave" when I was a kid, as his barracks were only about 20 miles away.
One day Mum noticed a car with two smartly dressed blokes in it, who were constantly watching our house.
Eventually, they hammered on the door and came in and arrested him. He wasn't on leave, he had broken a Sergeants jaw with his rifle but and then legged it. 

Life was different then. Breaking a superior officers face with a rifle butt was considered 'roguish'. Nowadays, it would flash across social media in an instant and be reported on mainstream news channels. Then the officer who defended him at his court martial would wheel in several social workers, a shrink and his auntie Gladys to say what a good boy he was until the army made him do nasty things to Arabs 

[BazaJT]

As far as I can make out among those opposed to such a vote in N.Ireland are the DUP.Doesn't the D in DUP stand for democratic?So you have a democratic party opposed to the idea of people having a vote

[Mister Rog]

Well I'm getting involved. Women should have free choice...it's their body. Religion should never be able to influence the laws of the land.
But I do agree with Tigger on the time limit. 24 weeks is awful, it's a fully formed child by then. 12 weeks should be the limit, or 18 for medical reasons, certainly no longer without a very good reason.

As someone who worked in operating theatres for many years (a long time ago) and witnessed many TOPs (Termination of Pregnancies) and seen the results, I have to agree. It's rare, but not unknown, that the mother-to-be doesn't know the score by 24 weeks and can make an early decision. However, there are exceptions such as mental/development problems and extreme obesity where the pregnancy may be unknown until a late stage.

In the old days doctors certainly "played God" with some decisions, and I have to say I can't recall any that were clearly just plain wrong for the interests of mother and child. But these days ? Ambulance chasers, public opinion, civil rights, legalities etc rule.

[LC0112G]

As far as I can make out among those opposed to such a vote in N.Ireland are the DUP.Doesn't the D in DUP stand for democratic?So you have a democratic party opposed to the idea of people having a vote

The issue in Ireland (Eire) was that it was part of their constitution. The people of Eire get to vote in a referendum whether they want to amend their constitution, and AIUI the result is binding on their politicians.

The issue in NI is that it is a law not part of our Constitution. In the UK laws are passed by politicians elected by the public. The public don't get to have referenda on laws in the UK (or NI). Parliament is Sovereign, not the public. The public get to elect the politicians - that's it.

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

The Northern Irish assembly took a vote on the subject two years ago and voted against. 
Those who are now pressurising Theresa the appeaser to bring it into law in Norn Irn over the heads of their politicians are clutching at straws and hoping she will do it, lose the DUP support, and stop BREXIT in its tracks.
Some people call it politics, some people might call it a bit sick.

[Doctor Gollum]

The Northern Irish assembly took a vote on the subject two years ago and voted against. 
Those who are now pressurising Theresa the appeaser to bring it into law in Norn Irn over the heads of their politicians are clutching at straws and hoping she will do it, lose the DUP support, and stop BREXIT in its tracks.
Some people call it politics, some people might call it a bit sick.

We have a phrase at work...

Completely useless, needs training/termination*... 

*delete as applicable 

[Sir Tigger KC]

The Northern Irish assembly took a vote on the subject two years ago and voted against. 
Those who are now pressurising Theresa the appeaser to bring it into law in Norn Irn over the heads of their politicians are clutching at straws and hoping she will do it, lose the DUP support, and stop BREXIT in its tracks.
Some people call it politics, some people might call it a bit sick.

Another irony is that the same people who are putting pressure on the Maybot to impose new abortion laws on Northern Ireland in the absence of a Northern Ireland government, are those who would be totally outraged if Westminster imposed it's will over the Scots or Welsh governments in any other devolved areas. 

Lord Opti's dream girl Shami springs to mind. 

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

Shami argued the point strongly on some programme or other yesterday. She got into a bit of hot water though by stating that it was more important than democracy ! 

[Sir Tigger KC]

Shami argued the point strongly on some programme or other yesterday. She got into a bit of hot water though by stating that it was more important than democracy ! 

The Shadow Attorney General clearly dosn't understand the constitutional issues either. 

[Doctor Gollum]

Shami argued the point strongly on some programme or other yesterday. She got into a bit of hot water though by stating that it was more important than democracy ! 

The Shadow Attorney General clearly dosn't understand the constitutional issues either. 

Why would they

[Sir Tigger KC]

Shami argued the point strongly on some programme or other yesterday. She got into a bit of hot water though by stating that it was more important than democracy ! 

The Shadow Attorney General clearly dosn't understand the constitutional issues either. 

Why would they

Yes.  It's not as if the Shadow Attorney General has any sort of democratic mandate or constituents to answer to.   

[Doctor Gollum]

Socialism only single aim is to rob the haves* of everything they have worked their 'dangle berries' off for in order to support the greater good, ie themselves feed the poor and needy. 

* The haves in the is case being the working and middle classes...

[Doctor Gollum]

As far as I can make out among those opposed to such a vote in N.Ireland are the DUP.Doesn't the D in DUP stand for democratic?So you have a democratic party opposed to the idea of people having a vote

They're being ironic