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[Webby the Bear]

Hi guys,

Well, got my hands on my first turbo the other day (wife's dad's TDI Passat). Ever since I've been learning loads. Has anyone watched 'Mighty Car Mods'. Not usually the sorta thing I like but the two guys are pretty funny and they turbo charge everything! lol

So:

Has anyone turbo charged a V6 mig? if so was the turbo coming off just one fannymould or two turbos off both of them? I'm guessing space is the biggest problem especially with the angle of the fannymould? If anyone has a thread on the build let me know (couldn't find one myself)

If in the process of say swapping out a turbo on a normal TDI for example.... can you simply swap it out for a bigger one? What considerations if you wanted a bigger one?

Where would you tap an oil line to? Would you have to tap in to an oil gallery to get pre-pressurised oil?

Dump pipe.... is this simply where the exhaust goes after its spun the turbine?

Cheers guys

[tidla]

I recon father in lawish would like it "just fixed" first.

[Webby the Bear]

I recon father in lawish would like it "just fixed" first.

lol don't worry not touching hiscar. just pondering 

[05omegav6]

The Omega engine is the wrong way round to be fitting Saab V6 turbo and manifolds... turbo would end up buried in the bulkhead Only V6 option is a remote turbo or supercharger, usually mounted where the aircon compressor used to be.
Requires strengthened crank/conrods/bearings for longevity plus a thicker head gasket to drop the compression ratio about a bar. This stops the engine from blowing itself to smithereens when revved. Oil supply for turbo is easily fitted as a remote system with a pump and separate cooler.

It can reliably make a 2.5 produce 3.0/3.2 power, but much more than that and you'll soon get pissed off rebuilding it

Four pot has potential either with 2.0 turbo manifold, (not sure if this will fit the desmond), and a custom exhaust, or by fitting the supercharger kit from a VX220. Not entirely sure that the plumbing allows this to fit straight into an Omega engine bay though

Expect a couple of grand to make it run...

[Webby the Bear]

Thanks Al,

So. If you were turbo charging an NA engine youd need to upgrade internals? So these young lads that do it will blow the engine at some point by just mashing a turbo on...?

And what about simply fitting a bigger turbo to an already turbo'd car?

What about ECU?

[4x4]

Do a search on 1.7 turbo puma and frp puma turbo,most stuff can be found on projectpuma.com
This will give you an idea on doing a 4 pot and how much money is involved.

[05omegav6]

Thanks Al,

So. If you were turbo charging an NA engine youd need to upgrade internals? So these young lads that do it will blow the engine at some point by just mashing a turbo on...?

And what about simply fitting a bigger turbo to an already turbo'd car?

What about ECU?

Using the VW example, the 1.9 tdi produced anything from 90-180bhp. This is mostly the result of  ecu programming, although you would like to think that the internals etc on the more powerful ones were upgraded from the basic ones... bigger intercoolers etc

Their 1.8t produces 140-225bhp, again with little more than an ecu update. Key point here is tgat the engines were designed from scrstch to be turbocharged...

[cem_devecioglu]

Hi guys,

Well, got my hands on my first turbo the other day (wife's dad's TDI Passat). Ever since I've been learning loads. Has anyone watched 'Mighty Car Mods'. Not usually the sorta thing I like but the two guys are pretty funny and they turbo charge everything! lol

So:

Has anyone turbo charged a V6 mig? if so was the turbo coming off just one fannymould or two turbos off both of them? I'm guessing space is the biggest problem especially with the angle of the fannymould? If anyone has a thread on the build let me know (couldn't find one myself)

If in the process of say swapping out a turbo on a normal TDI for example.... can you simply swap it out for a bigger one? What considerations if you wanted a bigger one?

Where would you tap an oil line to? Would you have to tap in to an oil gallery to get pre-pressurised oil?

Dump pipe.... is this simply where the exhaust goes after its spun the turbine?

Cheers guys

there are several turbo and supercharged examples..  here is one


http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=111701.0


also I have seen a twin turbo calibra v6 with custom ecu cant find the link now


both options single or twin turbo is valid but apparently twin turbo will be more costly


due to nature of turbo conversions many components in the engine would need to be relocated
some redesigned or changed depending on the requirement..


turbo and downpipe will need support legs , hardest part is controlling crank case presssure, you will have considerable amount of oil coming from crank breather so will need an oil catch tank and return line to lowest point of sump (must be very close to the the oil pump suction point )


there are also numerous issues you have to solve..  so needs money
 time and patience..


and as for turbo selection: very critical.. you have to deal with cfm calculations of the engine at various rpms and draw some lines on turbo spec charts.. so you can see at what rpm turbo will spool

[cem_devecioglu]

here is an example calculation for 0.5 bar
if you plan to use different turbo pressure replace  7 psig


for  7 psig boost
(7 psig + 13.15 psia) / (13.15 psia – 1 psig) = 1.658 pressure ratio line




1.658= pressure ratio


1.6  * 6700 * 80 *1.658/5660=251.21= CFM


1.6 *6700 *80* 1.9/5660=287.887 cfm




251.21* 0.07 =17.585 lb/m


287.887*0.07 =20.15 lb/m


1000 rpm  2.625 lb/m






pressure ratio calculation




2.625 *2= 5.25   =2000 rpm (7 psig)
2.625 *3= 7.875  =3000 rpm (7 psig)
2.625 *4= 10.5   =4000 rpm (7 psig)
2.625 *5= 13.125 =5000 rpm (7 psig)
2.625 *6= 15.75  =6000 rpm (7 psig)








6700 > 251.21 CFM


1000 RPM > 37.494 CFM
2000 RPM > 74.988 CFM
3000 RPM > 112.482
4000 RPM > 157.976
5000 RPM > 187.47
6000 RPM > 224.964


the calculations are for a 1.6 litre engine for 0.5 bar


now you draw this line on a turbo product spec sheet


here is an example chart
http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarrett/turbocharger#GT2056 (click on the performance map tab)

[omegod]

Simplest way to turbo a mig would be dropping in a Saab 2.3 FPT in along with an R28 which should bolt straight up to the block due to GM taking over Saab in 1993. Very strong and cheap engine that can take as much boost as you can throw at it, 325 bhp on standard internals has been achieved.

[cem_devecioglu]

http://www.enginelogics.com/read-a-turbo-compressor-map/

[cem_devecioglu]

Simplest way to turbo a mig would be dropping in a Saab 2.3 FPT in along with an R28 which should bolt straight up to the block due to GM taking over Saab in 1993. Very strong and cheap engine that can take as much boost as you can throw at it, 325 bhp on standard internals has been achieved.

I'm afraid not that simple.. you will have to deal with harness and lots of electrical (and connection) problems

[omegod]

Simplest way to turbo a mig would be dropping in a Saab 2.3 FPT in along with an R28 which should bolt straight up to the block due to GM taking over Saab in 1993. Very strong and cheap engine that can take as much boost as you can throw at it, 325 bhp on standard internals has been achieved.

I'm afraid not that simple.. you will have to deal with harness and lots of electrical (and connection) problems

Still simpler than turboing an engine that can't tolerate a turbo with any kind of boost Cem

[cem_devecioglu]

Simplest way to turbo a mig would be dropping in a Saab 2.3 FPT in along with an R28 which should bolt straight up to the block due to GM taking over Saab in 1993. Very strong and cheap engine that can take as much boost as you can throw at it, 325 bhp on standard internals has been achieved.

I'm afraid not that simple.. you will have to deal with harness and lots of electrical (and connection) problems

Still simpler than turboing an engine that can't tolerate a turbo with any kind of boost Cem

v6 can tolerate 400 hp and more as in the example

[05omegav6]

Not without serious bottom end work it won't