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[Webby the Bear]

Ok, didn't mean to create arguments 

However, it still doesn't change thefact that there are lots of folk on youtube  jamming in turbos without any changes to the engine at all.

so moving on... where do you take your boost reading from? presumably the intake? and how do you increase boost??? seen a lot of folk talking about that.

[Webby the Bear]

ps think I may need to pick myself up a spares or repairs tdi to have a play 

[cem_devecioglu]

Ok, didn't mean to create arguments 

However, it still doesn't change thefact that there are lots of folk on youtube  jamming in turbos without any changes to the engine at all.

so moving on... where do you take your boost reading from? presumably the intake? and how do you increase boost??? seen a lot of folk talking about that.

boost reading taken from inlet  manifold by a T going anywhere else that doesnt have check valve .. and measured either by an analog or electronic gauge.. my advice is use an analog one at the beginning ,  a faulty electronic one was about to cost me dearly


all turbos come with a factory boost value arranged from the wastegate..  and generally high values for a beginner (around 0.8 to 1.0 bar) ..  but you can get it measured  and lowered in a turbo repair shop.. if you try to test on the car first time it could be costly.. be warned!!


if you ask my opinion any installer must use an external wastegate (although wil add more to budget) and a blow off is a must


if you are going to do it , start with 0.3 to 0.4 bar.. nothing more.. also you must have a digital wideband lambda and carefully monitor air to fuel ratio.. when you hammer it , afr must be 10-11.5 if higher its not safe

[cem_devecioglu]

and one more point, an old 2.5 or 3.0 engine crank case pressure will be excessive under boost.. stock crank case breather wont be enough. deffo will need modification

[Webby the Bear]

Ok, so in short if you decided to turbo an NA car whether it be an Omega or anything else, you need to consider:

Crankcase pressure - (presumably because you don't want excessive pressure getting in your turbo? And also presumably because this pressure could replace oil in the feed line and starve the turbo of vital lube?)

Compression ratio - an increase required (always?) to reduce combustion temps.

Cooling - i'm assuming standard cooling wouldn't be enough thus an upgrade of components like radiator would be required as well as a big fackin intercooler?

ECU upgrade? - would you need a new ECU that dealt with all aspects or could you simply give theturbo its own ECU?

Boost pressure - obviously you'd fit the necessary dump valve and your boost gauge. but how do you know whats enough / too much? or is this needing to bedone by a specialist tuner?

Headers - why are headers needed as opposed to a standard manifold?

One last thing.... how do autos affect turbos? I presume you wouldn't need a dump valve as the throttles never closing to change gear?

[cem_devecioglu]

Ok, so in short if you decided to turbo an NA car whether it be an Omega or anything else, you need to consider:

Crankcase pressure - (presumably because you don't want excessive pressure getting in your turbo? And also presumably because this pressure could replace oil in the feed line and starve the turbo of vital lube?)

Compression ratio - an increase required (always?) to reduce combustion temps.

Cooling - i'm assuming standard cooling wouldn't be enough thus an upgrade of components like radiator would be required as well as a big fackin intercooler?

ECU upgrade? - would you need a new ECU that dealt with all aspects or could you simply give theturbo its own ECU?

Boost pressure - obviously you'd fit the necessary dump valve and your boost gauge. but how do you know whats enough / too much? or is this needing to bedone by a specialist tuner?

Headers - why are headers needed as opposed to a standard manifold?

One last thing.... how do autos affect turbos? I presume you wouldn't need a dump valve as the throttles never closing to change gear?

crank case pressure cause serious problem Webby.. it throws your engine oil out, for that reason  you may need oil catch can and probably a return to sump depending on the amount


compression ratio- a dropped compression is desired in general but not obligatory under low boost.. the reason is early ignition in high compressions.. but can be avoided


Intercooler is necessary for cooling the hot air pumped by turbo or supercharger whatever..


instead of bigger radiator , increasing the coolant flow rate , lower temp thermostat and other precautions must be made imo


ECU upgrade.. it all depends  on the car, ecu model and boost level.. however I can say ecus designed to work with map sensor more suitable than the models designed to work with maf.. but ecu's with knock sensors is an advantage.. there are various ways to solve fuelling problem ..  new maps loaded onto ecu chip, piggyback fuel ecus, standalones..  it all depends on the application.. however, standalone ecus are expensive, not that competent to drive every detail on the car  and are mostly for track days


boost pressure normally is designed from the beginning and all components are choosen accordingly.. however on a NA engine the limits depend on the initial engine design.. trial error can be done but only by a specialist who have the right tools , have experience and engine specs are known.. my chance was that my clit engine was originally a rally design.. only the rods are a bit weak.. and it was done before me many times so I knew the limits..


headers- under boost engine outlet gas flow rate and temperature dermands are very high compared to NA.. if the hot gas can not be thrown properly cylinder temperatures increase and cause early ignition +detonation which is deadly for the engine.. although some cheapo turbo car builders choose to build log type exhaust manifolds, thats really far from ideal..  exhaust and cylinder temperatures increase dramatically causing short and long term problems .. so best way is to use equal length longer exhaust manifolds.. this also effect turbo and engine performance


when you back off from the accelerator pedal , the throttle will be closed so you will need blow off regardless of the tranny model.. but in any case I can say the tranny life will be shorter than you might think as the torque output is increased ..




also the drivetrain components will be stressed more than usual..


ps: an external oil cooler also will be desired

[Webby the Bear]

Cem. That's a really detailed explanation. Thanks so much for putting that info Down 

Ps, wat are all the vac lines for? One waste gate if mechanically operated  . What  other reasons?

Cheers mate

[cem_devecioglu]

Cem. That's a really detailed explanation. Thanks so much for putting that info Down 

Ps, wat are all the vac lines for? One waste gate if mechanically operated  . What  other reasons?

Cheers mate

starting with wastegate, it only limits the turbo pressure.. however from my experience wastegates on turbos cant drop the pressure enough.. there are also other models that are electronically controlled and easier to use..


and about vacuum lines, normally, westinghouse , fuel regulator , fuel vents coming from fuel tank and crank gases depends on the vacuum from the inlet created by cylinder movement on a NA car.. however when you start boosting things change.. first problem is idle valve , you need a check valve to protect it  from pressure.. most westinghouse models have a checkvalve in front already but you may add another.. fuel regulators must already be changed with a variable one which cant resist that pressure.. and fuel ventilation from tank must be behind a check valve too..  crank ventilation still is a problem.. normal official procedures require you to connect to the inlet before turbo after oil is filtered but thats not an easy task

[cem_devecioglu]

and last point which causes a big headache to tuners, oil catch can sump return line must be connected to the nearest point of oil pump..  so it creates a suction otherwise crank case pressure pushes the oil back

[Taxi_Driver]

If your worried about delay lag on a turbo.....perhaps look at superchargers, as Al mentioned...

Merc use them.....seen the word Kompresser on the back of a merc? = supercharger, which is basically a turbo that spins all the time, so no delay lag when you hit the large pedal 

[cem_devecioglu]

although small/medium size turbos nowadays have nearly no lag , the big models still have but they are only for special purposes..  also there are vnt type turbos thats controlled by the ecu which has no lag




but as I said before turbo selection requires calculation.. if properly choosen your boost will start to come around 2k and full boost before near 3k rpm..  some brands like vw choose to supercharge low rpms and turbo high rpms

[cem_devecioglu]

you may find this explanative


http://www.sr20-forum.com/information-library/44727-crank-case-ventilation-fully-explained-turbocharged-edition.html

[Diamond Black Geezer]

I don't know how much you're looking to spend on this project, but have you considered just fitting an engine from a Turbocharged Vauxhall? There's so much to choose from, all of which are (reasonably) bolt in straightforward. Basically they're all versions of the same four pot 2.0 as fitted to the Omega. There's plenty of issues to overcome, of course. Ignition, looms, etc... But they're only the same issues that everyone overcomes with an engine swap. There's people fitting the V6 transversely in Corsas etc.. so it's all doable. You'd also have the benefit of a nice V6 engine to sell, to help fund the project.

This sold on ebay a short wile ago.. just a thought...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1999-SAAB-93-SE-2-0-TURBO-tax-amp-mot-NO-RESERVE-redtop-vauxhall-conversion-etc-/221547730826?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item339546178a&nma=true&si=LyLSKRaRYxQT7Mx1Fv1rA6UmWEk%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

My logic being it's a lot easier to tune up a turbo'd engine to a level you like, remaps, upping the boost, etc.. than actually redesign and rebuild an engine sump-up to accept a turbo it was never meant to.

[cem_devecioglu]

imo easiest swap will be C20LET but they are starting to be rare and expensive


but whatever the way choosen, engine swap or turbo the NA , it will expensive in the end




although the labor and part prices in my country is far from UK,


total sum was more than 5K£ to turbo a 4 pot 1.6 engine.. 


higher flow injectors, garret turbo, full stainless exhaust pipes, tubular exhaust maniflold, 310 steel flanges, custom steel inlet manifold,  check valves, blow off, cone air filter,intercooler, silicon pipes, var fuel pressure regulator, oil catch tank, aem wideband lambda and gauge,defi exhaust temperature sensor, defi turbo boost sensor and gauge etc etc.. (all of them brand new)


also a lot of work had to be done here and there..

[Webby the Bear]

Thanks again for all info boys

It's not something I'm panning on doing but I just wanted to understand wat happens in a turbo upgrade project. The answer. . . A lot appears 

As I only ever saw a turbo the other day I may purchase a spares or repairs tdi to play with