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[tunnie]

Our house is detached, therefore I can extend 4m back from the property within permitted development.

What happens if it's just outside that? say 4.1 metres? As to extend and match the garage wall line, which is what I want to do, it is fractionally longer than 4m.

Would that need planning permission?

Builder said he's only had one inspector measure and that was due to neighbour of the extension complaining.

Finally had a decent builder around and quote is within budget, so it's plan B for us if we cannot move.

[aaronjb]

Would that need planning permission?

Yes. Otherwise you're just taking your chances .. maybe it will be fine, maybe nobody will ever ask, but if they do you could find yourself having to knock it all down.. and if it's spotted when you come to sell the house, you might find nobody wants to buy it because proper planning wasn't in place and they don't want to be faced with having to knock it down.

[deviator]

Or build it to the 4m limit and extend that in a couple months time? 

[tunnie]

Would that need planning permission?

Yes. Otherwise you're just taking your chances .. maybe it will be fine, maybe nobody will ever ask, but if they do you could find yourself having to knock it all down.. and if it's spotted when you come to sell the house, you might find nobody wants to buy it because proper planning wasn't in place and they don't want to be faced with having to knock it down.

Thanks 

Also do they measure from the outside wall I guess? It's really annoying as its just a few cm's in it.

[Doctor Gollum]

You could add a chamfer to the corner of the garage wall to balance it...

[GastronomicKleptomaniac]

Build it to 4.1m. Then purchase a custom measuring tape that is 2.5% out. Then helpfully lend this to anyone that wants to measure...

[Doctor Gollum]

You will also probably find that the original plan was deliberately and carefully measured to create just such an issue thereby removing the temptation to extend... Especially if the original estate builders were the land owners...

[tunnie]

I basically want to do this:

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii177/tunnie_84/Extension.png

House, Garage, Conservatory.

So building line remains to current garage, not house. But where the house ends and the garage ends, is just fraction over 4.0m.

I'd then have large kitchen/diner going into the current garage space. Luckily, the garage floor is lower than house, so can be insulated without issue.

[Doctor Gollum]

If you simultaneously extend the garage to the front building line, then you can keep the garage as well 

[tunnie]

If you simultaneously extend the garage to the front building line, then you can keep the garage as well 

Possible, but that would mean loss of 1 of my front parking bays. Also would push costs too high, already at the limits.

I'm prepared to take a huge loss on the garage and only have small storage area for tools.

[Doctor Gollum]

Buyers may not...

[tunnie]

Buyers may not...

Given my house is only one in the close with a garage, won't make any real difference. In fact out of the 25 or so modern house builds around me, I'm the only one with a garage.

It won't sell with full garage currently in place anyway, so clearly not that wanted. 

[Varche]

It is only a thought but if you are only talking about an extra 10 cm to square it up, why not apply for planning permission. Would it cost much more to do so? I

[Rods2]

Ask your local planning department for advice as IME they are normally very approachable and helpful. The minimum/maximum building line may well be the edge of your garage as that is the edge of the current building. Is the area/height of the extension and the distance from any boundary within building regs. or will you need planning permission anyway?

[tunnie]

It is only a thought but if you are only talking about an extra 10 cm to square it up, why not apply for planning permission. Would it cost much more to do so? I

There is cost time and designs and such that have to be submitted, without it saves a lot of faff.

Ask your local planning department for advice as IME they are normally very approachable and helpful. The minimum/maximum building line may well be the edge of your garage as that is the edge of the current building. Is the area/height of the extension and the distance from any boundary within building regs. or will you need planning permission anyway?

Should not need permission if it was sub 4m or 4m exactly, distance from boundary is fine.

Will contact planning dept 

[GastronomicKleptomaniac]

I basically want to do this:

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii177/tunnie_84/Extension.png

Tunnie, today.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Our house is detached, therefore I can extend 4m back from the property within permitted development.

What happens if it's just outside that? say 4.1 metres? As to extend and match the garage wall line, which is what I want to do, it is fractionally longer than 4m.

Would that need planning permission?

Builder said he's only had one inspector measure and that was due to neighbour of the extension complaining.

Finally had a decent builder around and quote is within budget, so it's plan B for us if we cannot move.

They do exist, in very small numbers........much like a unicorn.

My experience of 'builders' is that 99% of them are no more than 'a bloke with a van' who will also pave your drive and landscape your garden.

[Doctor Gollum]

You will need detailed plans to be drawn up any way...

[Kevin Wood]

Yep, might as well pony up and get it done properly, otherwise you'll always regret it. How much is planning going to add to the overall bill?

Mind you, is it going to leave you with any storage? A house up our road got extended into the loft and double garage and it is consistently failing to sell. It has great living areas, but there's absolutely nowhere at all to store anything. Not great on what's not a 6 bedroom house.

No room for a shipping container in the garden either. 

[jonathanh]

Our house is detached, therefore I can extend 4m back from the property within permitted development.

What happens if it's just outside that? say 4.1 metres? As to extend and match the garage wall line, which is what I want to do, it is fractionally longer than 4m.

Would that need planning permission?

Builder said he's only had one inspector measure and that was due to neighbour of the extension complaining.

Finally had a decent builder around and quote is within budget, so it's plan B for us if we cannot move.

if you want more than 4m single story, apply under the extended PD rules - can do up to 8m.

[tunnie]

Our house is detached, therefore I can extend 4m back from the property within permitted development.

What happens if it's just outside that? say 4.1 metres? As to extend and match the garage wall line, which is what I want to do, it is fractionally longer than 4m.

Would that need planning permission?

Builder said he's only had one inspector measure and that was due to neighbour of the extension complaining.

Finally had a decent builder around and quote is within budget, so it's plan B for us if we cannot move.

if you want more than 4m single story, apply under the extended PD rules - can do up to 8m.

Thanks, will Google up this. Was not aware of 8m rule.

[tunnie]

Yep, might as well pony up and get it done properly, otherwise you'll always regret it. How much is planning going to add to the overall bill?

Mind you, is it going to leave you with any storage? A house up our road got extended into the loft and double garage and it is consistently failing to sell. It has great living areas, but there's absolutely nowhere at all to store anything. Not great on what's not a 6 bedroom house.

No room for a shipping container in the garden either. 

Market it super slow though, I've seen stunning houses, with garages, extra store rooms, additional office etc all have to reduce huge amount and some not selling.

All appears quite slow at the moment. 

[Sir Tigger KC]

Finally had a decent builder around .......

Builders always seem decent when they come round to look at the job and you to see what you can afford! 

Tell you what Tunnie.  I have a knack of sniffing out cowboys, so I'll come round and meet him and if I say that he seems decent......  run a fickin' mile!     

[redelitev6]

  Sods law applies here , you'd be the unlucky one to have a s**t hot building inspector , as has been said ,get proper advice and potentially save yourself a lot of grief and expense

[Doctor Gollum]

Buyers may not...

Given my house is only one in the close with a garage, won't make any real difference. In fact out of the 25 or so modern house builds around me, I'm the only one with a garage.

It won't sell with full garage currently in place anyway, so clearly not that wanted.

Clearly asking too much...

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Didn't Mark DTM build his own extension?

Perhaps he'll help you for the price of a pint and a Greggs sausage roll.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Finally had a decent builder around .......

Builders always seem decent when they come round to look at the job and you to see what you can afford! 

Tell you what Tunnie.  I have a knack of sniffing out cowboys, so I'll come round and meet him and if I say that he seems decent......  run a fickin' mile!     

Is there a shortage of attractive women in Darzett?

[Sir Tigger KC]

Finally had a decent builder around .......

Builders always seem decent when they come round to look at the job and you to see what you can afford! 

Tell you what Tunnie.  I have a knack of sniffing out cowboys, so I'll come round and meet him and if I say that he seems decent......  run a fickin' mile!     

Is there a shortage of attractive women in Darzett?

No. 

[dave the builder]

first check your deeds (make sure there is nothing on that that stops you)
then informally speak to the council ,and your neighbors .
2 ways to get Building regulation approval (which you need even with permitted developement) you'll need detailed plans showing all the detail,finishes,specs,etc and a good builder . and pay a set one off fee for building control.

Or , you can go down the employ contractors, manage it yourself ,Building control will inspect and charge in stages.

also the guttering etc is part of the building line (so if you have a 300mm soffet ,facia board and then guttering) ,all needs to be take into account .

also ,if there is a communal sewer ,main sewer , local water authority will need contacting ,permission

planning portal is good for pointers

[Shackeng]

By the way, you don't have to use the Council's building inspectors, you can use an independent one, as I do.

[Andy B]

....
Market it super slow though, ....
All appears quite slow at the moment. 

Doesn't seem to be the case on my estate .... there's a 'sold in 7 days' on a house around the corner

[Viral_Jim]

Doesn't seem to be the case on my estate .... there's a 'sold in 7 days' on a house around the corner

As with most UK property market trends (good and bad) I suspect it's starting in the  SE and will move up/out from there.

For example a girl in my team has been trying to sell her Essex flat for close to 6m, on the flip side we sold ours on 3 weeks. Isolated examples, but there are some indicators that it's part of a broader trend.

[Viral_Jim]

By the way, you don't have to use the Council's building inspectors, you can use an independent one, as I do.

This. 

[Marks DTM Calib]

Or build it to the 4m limit and extend that in a couple months time? 

Wont work sadly, the permitted development has a consideration for previous extensions 

[Marks DTM Calib]

Our house is detached, therefore I can extend 4m back from the property within permitted development.

What happens if it's just outside that? say 4.1 metres? As to extend and match the garage wall line, which is what I want to do, it is fractionally longer than 4m.

Would that need planning permission?

Builder said he's only had one inspector measure and that was due to neighbour of the extension complaining.

Finally had a decent builder around and quote is within budget, so it's plan B for us if we cannot move.

Just get planning permission, its about £200, easy to do and you will need to get plans drawn anyway for the builder.

[jonathanh]

Planning permission and extended permitted development are technically two different things. What works best for you  will depend on local planning policy and the history of development if any with the existing house.

For example I could not get planning permission for any extension but I could used extended permitted development to add 1500 square feet.  It is all about playing by the rules to achieve what you want

Building control is totally separate that is about how something is built. Not its size or location

[tunnie]

Thanks all for the advice 

Things like guttering I'd not taken into account, so good to know and yes looking full planning permission route now. Lots of my neighbours have done very similar extensions, so don't see issues and have excellent relationships with those around me.

Our house is detached, therefore I can extend 4m back from the property within permitted development.

What happens if it's just outside that? say 4.1 metres? As to extend and match the garage wall line, which is what I want to do, it is fractionally longer than 4m.

Would that need planning permission?

Builder said he's only had one inspector measure and that was due to neighbour of the extension complaining.

Finally had a decent builder around and quote is within budget, so it's plan B for us if we cannot move.

Just get planning permission, its about £200, easy to do and you will need to get plans drawn anyway for the builder.

I might ask the builder for plans, did you do your own or use another company?

[aaronjb]

When people say plans, they mean something an architect draws - not something a builder draws on the pack of an envelope Plans are important - they let you show building control how it was meant to be built (and that it was designed to meet regs) and they let you and the builder have an agreed plan to build against so you both know what you are getting!

Try this guy - he drew plans for a garage (that I couldn't afford to have built, sadly) and was very reasonable - he can deal with planning control & building control for you, too: https://www.davidtaylordesignservice.co.uk/

(FWIW it was £800 in 2011 to have plans drawn including the cost of submitting to building control, local authority and planning application, and that included £80 for structural engineers calcs for beam loading - I paid around half that, because we never submitted for building control/LA etc, in the end)

[tunnie]

You mean my plans here, would not be good enough? 

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii177/tunnie_84/Extension.png

Understood, thanks for the recommendation, that's worth a huge amount. The builder top of our list did some work for some friends of ours, they were very happy with work done and slogged away back in the cold snap we had. So huge peace of mind when they come recommended. 

£800 + inflation as it includes planning etc is reasonable to me and as you say gives builders how it's meant to look.

[aaronjb]

Yep, I also found it was easier to get builders to quote if there was a plan on a piece of paper - but it sounds like you've already got that bit covered

David was a nice guy, easy to deal with and very fair - obviously some of the costs are out of his control as they are set by the council (or whoever you use for building inspection), but his quote was all itemised etc and I figured £400ish for his time to draw up plans was money well spent, and saves me seven years of architect school

[tunnie]

Yep, I also found it was easier to get builders to quote if there was a plan on a piece of paper - but it sounds like you've already got that bit covered

David was a nice guy, easy to deal with and very fair - obviously some of the costs are out of his control as they are set by the council (or whoever you use for building inspection), but his quote was all itemised etc and I figured £400ish for his time to draw up plans was money well spent, and saves me seven years of architect school

All things considered, good value. Considering I pay some of my developers £550 each day!

[scimmy_man]

By the way, you don't have to use the Council's building inspectors, you can use an independent one, as I do.

they never come to visit I find,
builders get away with allsorts of shortcuts.

[Rods2]

Local council building inspectors know all the local builders and are used to dealing with them. This also means they know the ones that they need to keep an eye on and those they know who will do a good correct job, so requiring minimal monitoring and inspection.

[Shackeng]

By the way, you don't have to use the Council's building inspectors, you can use an independent one, as I do.

they never come to visit I find,
builders get away with allsorts of shortcuts.

I agree that they can be somewhat casual at timekeeping, but they traditionally cost less, mine last time was £75, and I reckon Tunnie would be on top of the job anyway.

[TheBoy]

Without doubt, losing the garage will affect resale, so if this is a house to want to move from in the foreseeable future, you'll have to remember that additional financial burden.

[tunnie]

Without doubt, losing the garage will affect resale, so if this is a house to want to move from in the foreseeable future, you'll have to remember that additional financial burden.

Sorry. Have to disagree, it's not selling now, with a complete garage.

People now, look for open plan areas, it's what we want with new house, a kitchen large enough that it becomes a dining room.

Most people who came to view the house, common theme on not offering is the small kitchen.

[tunnie]

I'll also add that houses with better downstairs layout than us, in the local area, without a garage, sold quicker for similar price to ours.

The garage is a rare thing now, because people don't want them. We went to look at lots of new housing builds, vast amount of them only came with 'car ports' no garage.

[TheBoy]

Cobblers. It is desirable.  And it will impact value/saleability.  Though sounds like the house potentially does have other issues, that is impacting its saleability.

Its not selling because its too expensive, and we are in (non technical) recession.  Houses generally aren't selling, but that doesn't stop poorer estate agents from trying to keep the prices up.

[tunnie]

Garages only used for storage now, all ones I’ve viewed just used them as storage.

Anyway, if we did extend we would stay about 5+ years. 

[Doctor Gollum]

You would be forced to in order to recoup the cost in real terms, the actual growth is probably the same if you extend or not, the only difference being not paying for the extension... Which would go along way to getting the kids through university debt free. 

[Viral_Jim]

Pretty much every estate agent we spoke to when we were looking told us that converting your garage into "usable living space" nets you more money than the cost of the conversion and double garages tend to be pretty rare now as a result. 

I suspect we were looking at similar type houses to tunnie's, although as we're aroubd Birmingham or "the grim north" as it's known  we were looking in the £400-550k bracket.

Fundamentally, people don't work on cars anymore and at that price point the weekend toys also get fairly modern and don't need as much fettling. I reckon that as long as you retain some storage - for BBQ, kiddies bikes and other random cr@p, you'll make on the extension and make the place more saleable not less.

Thankfully we're building our own, so I can have all the garage space I like 

[tunnie]

Thanks Jimmy, voice of reason 

Around 30% of the garage would remain, for storage and tools. 

We have very similar budgets, but you get way more up norf for that, compared to Surrey.

[Viral_Jim]

Indeed. In our case it buys you a disused garage in a field 

[TheBoy]

Thanks Jimmy, voice of reason 

Around 30% of the garage would remain, for storage and tools. 

We have very similar budgets, but you get way more up norf for that, compared to Surrey.

That will help.  People are looking for (more secure than a wooden shed) storage for things like lawnmowers and expensive bicycles, and expensive kids garden tools.  Not many people actually garage their cars nowadays - every house in my street has a garage, but the only ones who put a car in are the ones with doubles (3 out of 22).


Although we're quite lucky on crime rates around here (although the chavs, probably from the new estate, have vandalised the fuel pumps at Tesco, which is causing chaos  ) just about everywhere crime is rising, and will get worse with the Police publically stating that they wont really spend much time investigating simple burgulary, and the recession coming.

Mum now has to keep certain garden equipment in her garage for insurance reasons - her brick built sheds/outhouses cannot get cover any more for things like lawnmowers, strimmers, hedgetrimmers and so on.   

[Kevin Wood]

Most of my neighbours have double garages and they use them to collect shite that belongs at the tip, and gym equipment they bought when they were kidding themselves that they were going to get fit.

I wouldn't even consider a house without one, but then I'm probably not typical.

[TheBoy]

I wouldn't even consider a house without one, but then I'm probably not typical.

Nor would they - where else would they put their twice used rowing machines?

[TheBoy]

Most of my neighbours have double garages and they use them to collect shite that belongs at the tip

I know of an excellent technique of reducing clutter, without a trip to the tip...

[Kevin Wood]

Most of my neighbours have double garages and they use them to collect shite that belongs at the tip

I know of an excellent technique of reducing clutter, without a trip to the tip...

I'll ask my neighbour to give me a heads-up when he's going to take up your advice, I think. 

[tunnie]

I would look to change garage door to a roll-up type, to maximise space.

Think it could work well, I can foresee mounting big lights inside to shine onto driveway for when I’m doing service work. I plan to have enough space for all my tools while dumping a load of crap I don’t need.

Additionally considering a lean-to at one side and extending fence boundary, as it’s my land as per deeds. Towards the road, so I get additional storage as well for garden stuff. Neighbor has done similar, but against his house and works well.

This of course is all plan B, currently dropping the price and switching agents.

[redelitev6]

Garages might be an age thing ? young types who don't tinker with cars might not be interested in having a "dead" space in the house , for me on the other hand it would be the first thing I looked at , sod the kitchen ! 

[STEMO]

Garages might be an age thing ? young types who don't tinker with cars might not be interested in having a "dead" space in the house , for me on the other hand it would be the first thing I looked at , sod the kitchen !

We rented on a fairly new estate while we were looking for this place. In the ten years since the estate was built, I'd say a good 40% had made the garage into living space. Everyone, but everyone, parked their cars on the drive. Partly because, unless you aimed the car perfectly, you couldn't get out of it once in the garage.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Garages might be an age thing ? young types who don't tinker with cars might not be interested in having a "dead" space in the house , for me on the other hand it would be the first thing I looked at , sod the kitchen !

We rented on a fairly new estate while we were looking for this place. In the ten years since the estate was built, I'd say a good 40% had made the garage into living space. Everyone, but everyone, parked their cars on the drive. Partly because, unless you aimed the car perfectly, you couldn't get out of it once in the garage.

Most modern garages are too small for the bloated cars of today. Hence they are full of assorted crap rather than a car.

Two things I insist upon when buying a house are.

1. It must be detached.
2. It must have a large garage(s)


 

[Shackeng]

I would look to change garage door to a roll-up type, to maximise space.

Think it could work well, I can foresee mounting big lights inside to shine onto driveway for when I’m doing service work. I plan to have enough space for all my tools while dumping a load of crap I don’t need.

Additionally considering a lean-to at one side and extending fence boundary, as it’s my land as per deeds. Towards the road, so I get additional storage as well for garden stuff. Neighbor has done similar, but against his house and works well.

This of course is all plan B, currently dropping the price and switching agents.

I did this after being quoted £4k(!!!) to replace the metal double garage door, and IIRC the roll-up was a shade over £1.5k fitted. No brainer.

[Kevin Wood]

I would look to change garage door to a roll-up type, to maximise space.

Think it could work well, I can foresee mounting big lights inside to shine onto driveway for when I’m doing service work. I plan to have enough space for all my tools while dumping a load of crap I don’t need.

Additionally considering a lean-to at one side and extending fence boundary, as it’s my land as per deeds. Towards the road, so I get additional storage as well for garden stuff. Neighbor has done similar, but against his house and works well.

This of course is all plan B, currently dropping the price and switching agents.

I did this after being quoted £4k(!!!) to replace the metal double garage door, and IIRC the roll-up was a shade over £1.5k fitted. No brainer.

Yep, me too. They are superb IMHO.

Very few bits you could remove to repurpose as tools when working on a  BMW straight 6 tractor, mind.

[tunnie]

Nice. Was that £1.5k for double yeah? A single should be quite reasonable then. 

[TheBoy]

sod the kitchen !

Exactly. Having a Y chromosome, I don't need a kitchen, that's for those with the double X

[TheBoy]

I would look to change garage door to a roll-up type, to maximise space.

Think it could work well, I can foresee mounting big lights inside to shine onto driveway for when I’m doing service work. I plan to have enough space for all my tools while dumping a load of crap I don’t need.

Additionally considering a lean-to at one side and extending fence boundary, as it’s my land as per deeds. Towards the road, so I get additional storage as well for garden stuff. Neighbor has done similar, but against his house and works well.

This of course is all plan B, currently dropping the price and switching agents.

I did this after being quoted £4k(!!!) to replace the metal double garage door, and IIRC the roll-up was a shade over £1.5k fitted. No brainer.

Yep, me too. They are superb IMHO.

Very few bits you could remove to repurpose as tools when working on a  BMW straight 6 tractor, mind.

That bloody Omegatoy is an animal, getting the grinder out on my garage door opener 

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

sod the kitchen !

Exactly. Having a Y chromosome, I don't need a kitchen, that's for those with the double X

You're not allowed to be gender specific these days, TB. The modern feminist man is gender neutral.

[Sir Tigger KC]

sod the kitchen !

Exactly. Having a Y chromosome, I don't need a kitchen, that's for those with the double X

You're not allowed to be gender specific these days, TB. The modern feminist man is gender neutral.

Did they tell you that on the Jag forum M'lud? 

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

sod the kitchen !

Exactly. Having a Y chromosome, I don't need a kitchen, that's for those with the double X

You're not allowed to be gender specific these days, TB. The modern feminist man is gender neutral.

Did they tell you that on the Jag forum M'lud? 

A bunch of politically correct Mangina's.

We didn't hit it off.

[Shackeng]

Nice. Was that £1.5k for double yeah? A single should be quite reasonable then. 

Yes double.