Omega Owners Forum

Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: Webby the Bear on 04 August 2015, 18:07:33

Title: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 04 August 2015, 18:07:33
So, taking in all the advice on the forum I did a 0-60 test today. Two major differences. . .

1) I timed it using the video recorder on my phone instead of trying to press the cars stopwatch just as I floor it  ::)

2) I foolishly only realised when swmbo pointed it out...that the road I usually use for testing. . . Has an incline  :-[

So. I'll upload the 0-60 video later as I'm at work at the mo. But it was awesome. . . I need to look at it against a device that read tenths of seconds but worst case scenario its 9.5.  :)

Very happy bear.

I assumed the slight incline wouldn't make a difference. Wrong! Plus also being able to look at it on vid is a lot easier so I can concentrate on flooring it.

So sorry for all the 'dangle berries' I been chatting lately. . . It appears my omegas doing fine   :y

. . . . Still may check out the chip tho  :-X
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: EMD on 04 August 2015, 18:24:59
There's an old saying that cars bikes ect run and respond quicker with cooler air like on a frosty morning  :) Seem to be true when i ran my old air cooled RD250  :D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 04 August 2015, 18:30:20
So, taking in all the advice on the forum I did a 0-60 test today. Two major differences. . .

1) I timed it using the video recorder on my phone instead of trying to press the cars stopwatch just as I floor it  ::)

2) I foolishly only realised when swmbo pointed it out...that the road I usually use for testing. . . Has an incline  :-[

So. I'll upload the 0-60 video later as I'm at work at the mo. But it was awesome. . . I need to look at it against a device that read tenths of seconds but worst case scenario its 9.5.  :)

Very happy bear.

I assumed the slight incline wouldn't make a difference. Wrong! Plus also being able to look at it on vid is a lot easier so I can concentrate on flooring it.

So sorry for all the 'dangle berries' I been chatting lately. . . It appears my omegas doing fine   :y

. . . . Still may check out the chip tho  :-X

About as accurate as a sundial. :)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: henryd on 04 August 2015, 18:34:35
So, taking in all the advice on the forum I did a 0-60 test today. Two major differences. . .

1) I timed it using the video recorder on my phone instead of trying to press the cars stopwatch just as I floor it  ::)

2) I foolishly only realised when swmbo pointed it out...that the road I usually use for testing. . . Has an incline  :-[

So. I'll upload the 0-60 video later as I'm at work at the mo. But it was awesome. . . I need to look at it against a device that read tenths of seconds but worst case scenario its 9.5.  :)

Very happy bear.

I assumed the slight incline wouldn't make a difference. Wrong! Plus also being able to look at it on vid is a lot easier so I can concentrate on flooring it.

So sorry for all the 'dangle berries' I been chatting lately. . . It appears my omegas doing fine   :y

. . . . Still may check out the chip tho  :-X

About as accurate as a sundial. :)

Opti,you can be a mean bastard,Webby was made up till you posted that !!!! Lol
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 04 August 2015, 19:26:06
Well, it is the best I can do! opti may have radar guns and his own private test track for 0-60 tests but I don't lol plus it was a bloody sight better than trying to negotiate cars stop watch, whilst keeping an eye on it followed by driving it  ;D at least I can measure the time exactly from 0-60  :)

Heres the vid. skip to around 32 secs to see the start if youre interested :) just cant believe how much a slight incline affected the time

(http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee402/webbybear1/th_0-60_zps0f1piopi.mp4) (http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee402/webbybear1/0-60_zps0f1piopi.mp4)

Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: hercules on 04 August 2015, 19:34:10
I shall post a vid later of me doing it in 7.6 on my Raleigh grafter  8) ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 04 August 2015, 19:43:42
 ;D

its all irrelevant anyway as either way theyre slow cars. but its nice to know its exactly powered as it should be.

AND

if what I read the other day is true...0-60 tests don't start until the cars doing 3mph. if that's true, then after checking the video mine gets an 8.2 or thereabouts time!!!!

but im happy.

now ive done this I can put my feet up and drive round at 2mph again  ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: zirk on 04 August 2015, 19:55:42
0 to 56'ish then, as the Omega Speedo clocks tend to read a higher mph.
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: ted_one on 04 August 2015, 20:01:19
Webby....you have just proved that you NEED a 3.2, it is useless to resist,just give in :)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: zirk on 04 August 2015, 20:03:50
Webby....you have just proved that you NEED a 3.2, it is useless to resist,just give in :)
3.2 with a Calibrated Speedo might be in order.  ;)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 04 August 2015, 20:09:40
haha nah, i'm happy with the 2.5.

ok, well if you do as ive just done and watch the video from 0-65 (just to please my own curiosity after the speedo comment..... the old girl does it in 9.490 secs  :y :y :y :y :y :y :y :y
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 04 August 2015, 20:12:30
;D

its all irrelevant anyway as either way theyre slow cars. but its nice to know its exactly powered as it should be.

AND

if what I read the other day is true...0-60 tests don't start until the cars doing 3mph. if that's true, then after checking the video mine gets an 8.2 or thereabouts time!!!!

but im happy.

now ive done this I can put my feet up and drive round at 2mph again  ;D

That'll be the 'one foot rollout facility' used at Santa Pod and the like. It's cheating. It'll knock about 0.3-0.4 off your 0-60 time as well as your standing quarter mile time.

The yanks use it all the time which is why they can get a Hillman Imp to sixty MPH in less than 3 seconds.  :)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 04 August 2015, 20:13:40
got ya.

no drama opti. 0-65 (to account for the speedo calibration) and its 9.490. bang on my son!!!!!
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: TheBoy on 05 August 2015, 07:11:16
Webby....you have just proved that you NEED a 3.2, it is useless to resist,just give in :)
Nah, 3.0. ESP if auto, as 3.2 TCM is poor by comparison. Plus the donk is a straight swap in webbys ;)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 06 August 2015, 08:11:49
But did you launch using the TC stall approach?
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Diamond Black Geezer on 06 August 2015, 09:15:18
But did you launch using the TC stall approach?


tell us more Mr DTM...  :)

Incidentally, very happy for you Mr The Bear! Did a couple of 'rough' test myself a bit back and got around 10 secs. Again, one was a slightly downhill sliproad, which affected things. According to the brochure they changed the diff on the 2.5 CDXs the year after mine were built - which accounts for  better 0-60 time - so the brochure suggests, or this may be simply a misprint.  ???  :y
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: henryd on 06 August 2015, 09:32:03
Selector into D,left foot hard on brake,right foot flat to floor on go pedal,revs will peak at probably about 2.5k,slide left foot off the brake pedal and hold tight,thats the stall approach :y
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Diamond Black Geezer on 06 August 2015, 09:45:41
Jesus!! And that's not going to shred my poor AR25?!?  :o


If not... then I can't bleeding wait!  ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: aaronjb on 06 August 2015, 09:47:05
There is a chance there'll be a clatter and you'll leave the TC behind on the road ;)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 06 August 2015, 10:38:54
Nah it will be fine as long as you don't sit on the brakes for an excessive period.....key thing this does is it gets the brake band for first engaged and fills the torque converter with oil at pressure, saves close on a 0.5-1 second typically

I seem to recall on the Omega the stall speed is circa 4K.....but its been a while.
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: zirk on 06 August 2015, 10:49:12
But did you launch using the TC stall approach?
Ah, you've gone and done it now, I can see this testing going on for another week now, with the ending threads being something like 'how easy is to replace my broken gearbox with an AR35'
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: tigers_gonads on 06 August 2015, 11:19:35
But did you launch using the TC stall approach?
Ah, you've gone and done it now, I can see this testing going on for another week now, with the ending threads being something like 'how easy is to replace my broken gearbox with an AR35'


Now were are my car keys ..................  :D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 06 August 2015, 17:37:21
 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Mark. No I didn't do the TC stall approach. nice to know I could shed even more time. I think the stall speed is 2.5k rpm isn't it(don't quote me on that)

Would this approach not produce wheel spin?  :-\
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: henryd on 06 August 2015, 17:46:46
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Mark. No I didn't do the TC stall approach. nice to know I could shed even more time. I think the stall speed is 2.5k rpm isn't it(don't quote me on that)

Would this approach not produce wheel spin?  :-\

On a 2.5 doubtfull unless you are on autogrips ::) ;D ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 06 August 2015, 17:50:54
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Mark. No I didn't do the TC stall approach. nice to know I could shed even more time. I think the stall speed is 2.5k rpm isn't it(don't quote me on that)

Would this approach not produce wheel spin?  :-\

I presume autogrips are a 'dubious' make of tyre?  ::) ;D

and out of interest do you think the drivers who did the 0-60 test for the car at thefactory would have done it like that? I presume so as the people who do these tests are ''professionals''.
On a 2.5 doubtfull unless you are on autogrips ::) ;D ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 06 August 2015, 17:51:23
I presume autogrips are a 'dubious' make of tyre?  ::) ;D

and out of interest do you think the drivers who did the 0-60 test for the car at thefactory would have done it like that? I presume so as the people who do these tests are ''professionals''.
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: henryd on 06 August 2015, 18:30:20
I presume autogrips are a 'dubious' make of tyre?  ::) ;D

and out of interest do you think the drivers who did the 0-60 test for the car at thefactory would have done it like that? I presume so as the people who do these tests are ''professionals''.

Lol,a milk float would drift on autogrips and yes they would have done the stall approach as do all the magazine testers. :y
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 06 August 2015, 18:51:16
 ;D

Cheers henry.  :y
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: YZ250 on 06 August 2015, 22:06:55
Selector into D,left foot hard on brake,right foot flat to floor on go pedal,revs will peak at probably about 2.5k,slide left foot off the brake pedal and hold tight,thats the stall approach :y

Which is basically how the launch control works on my other car, except I get a bazzy light flashing on the dash to let me know it's ready to go.  :y  Heel and Toe works rather well apparently.  ::)
The handbook says 'Overuse of this function can stress the transmission parts'. No shit Sherlock.  ::)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Gaffers on 07 August 2015, 07:19:26
In which case I definitely want to have a Leaf/Omega head to head.  Some Leaf owners are reporting 0-60 times of 9.4 and less :D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 07 August 2015, 11:36:57
In which case I definitely want to have a Leaf/Omega head to head.  Some Leaf owners are reporting 0-60 times of 9.4 and less :D

I imagine it would be pretty swift off the mark.......say, zero to 30 mph. :y

Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Gaffers on 07 August 2015, 12:28:24
In which case I definitely want to have a Leaf/Omega head to head.  Some Leaf owners are reporting 0-60 times of 9.4 and less :D

I imagine it would be pretty swift off the mark.......say, zero to 30 mph. :y

I thiink even 0-40 it would eat the omega alive, but I was of the thinking that to 60 the miggy would have won...until the 9.5 seconds stated above!  Some Leaf owners have claimed 8.4 to 60 to it might be a lot closer between the two than I previously thought :y

Right, who knows a drag strip we can use ::)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: henryd on 07 August 2015, 12:45:53
In which case I definitely want to have a Leaf/Omega head to head.  Some Leaf owners are reporting 0-60 times of 9.4 and less :D

I imagine it would be pretty swift off the mark.......say, zero to 30 mph. :y

I thiink even 0-40 it would eat the omega alive, but I was of the thinking that to 60 the miggy would have won...until the 9.5 seconds stated above!  Some Leaf owners have claimed 8.4 to 60 to it might be a lot closer between the two than I previously thought :y

Right, who knows a drag strip we can use ::)

Has anyone got a portable generator you can borrow if there are multiple runs ::) :D :D ;)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Gaffers on 07 August 2015, 12:50:27
In which case I definitely want to have a Leaf/Omega head to head.  Some Leaf owners are reporting 0-60 times of 9.4 and less :D

I imagine it would be pretty swift off the mark.......say, zero to 30 mph. :y

I thiink even 0-40 it would eat the omega alive, but I was of the thinking that to 60 the miggy would have won...until the 9.5 seconds stated above!  Some Leaf owners have claimed 8.4 to 60 to it might be a lot closer between the two than I previously thought :y

Right, who knows a drag strip we can use ::)

Has anyone got a portable generator you can borrow if there are multiple runs ::) :D :D ;)

cough ::)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: henryd on 07 August 2015, 12:53:15
In which case I definitely want to have a Leaf/Omega head to head.  Some Leaf owners are reporting 0-60 times of 9.4 and less :D

I imagine it would be pretty swift off the mark.......say, zero to 30 mph. :y

I thiink even 0-40 it would eat the omega alive, but I was of the thinking that to 60 the miggy would have won...until the 9.5 seconds stated above!  Some Leaf owners have claimed 8.4 to 60 to it might be a lot closer between the two than I previously thought :y

Right, who knows a drag strip we can use ::)

Has anyone got a portable generator you can borrow if there are multiple runs ::) :D :D ;)

cough ::)

 ;D ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 07 August 2015, 13:14:11
A quick flick through Autocar reveals.......

91 MPH.

0-60..... 10.9 secs

30-70....11.4 secs

60-0......2.8 secs

107 BHP

207 lb ft torque.

1545 KG.


I have to say I quite like the leaf. :y
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Gaffers on 07 August 2015, 13:35:31
A quick flick through Autocar reveals.......

91 MPH.

0-60..... 10.9 secs


That's what I thought, but on EV forums there are some who claim less than 9 seconds.  But the authenticity of that could be about as reliable and as impartial as a MET Office long range forecast ::)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: 05omegav6 on 07 August 2015, 15:08:10
Manual 3.2 Omega is sub 7 seconds to 60 if you're a complete lady crevice to the car :-X

As for the weather forecast...  :-X
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: ted_one on 07 August 2015, 16:17:40
Getting bored now,I personally wouldn't want to do any form of street racing as it's very very nawty and it will do no good to your beloved Omega.So don't be crying into your beer when it's gone bang racing a milk float.....and by the way.. try explaining that one away to your mates ::)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: zirk on 07 August 2015, 16:18:21
I presume autogrips are a 'dubious' make of tyre?  ::) ;D

and out of interest do you think the drivers who did the 0-60 test for the car at thefactory would have done it like that? I presume so as the people who do these tests are ''professionals''.

Lol,a milk float would drift on autogrips and yes they would have done the stall approach as do all the magazine testers. :y
(http://media.crash.net/original/AU984109.jpg)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: ted_one on 07 August 2015, 16:36:06
Don't encourage them Chris...it'll all end in tears ::)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 07 August 2015, 17:41:58
Guffy, 9.5 is for my lowly 2.5. I'm sure the 3.2 manuals are a lot quicker (like around the 7 second mark...according to the book that is)

Is the leaf manual ?
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: 05omegav6 on 07 August 2015, 18:18:13
Guffy, 9.5 is for my lowly 2.5. I'm sure the 3.2 manuals are a lot quicker (like around the 7 second mark...according to the book that is)

Is the leaf manual ?
That's got to be one of the funniest questions ever asked... ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: henryd on 07 August 2015, 19:03:39
Guffy, 9.5 is for my lowly 2.5. I'm sure the 3.2 manuals are a lot quicker (like around the 7 second mark...according to the book that is)

Is the leaf manual ?
That's got to be one of the funniest questions ever asked... ;D

 ;D

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_Leaf
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 07 August 2015, 22:39:08
I don't get what's funny  :-\
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Mr.OmegaMan on 07 August 2015, 23:02:56
I don't get what's funny  :-\

Electric cars don't have gears, More like a single speed automatic. Something like that anyway.
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 08 August 2015, 07:40:56
Thanks Mr OM fir explaining that. I didn't know that.  :y
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 08 August 2015, 11:57:34
Thanks Mr OM fir explaining that. I didn't know that.  :y

Beware of the fuel injection system on electric cars, Mr Bear. This can cause problems. :)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: henryd on 08 August 2015, 13:43:52
Thanks Mr OM fir explaining that. I didn't know that.  :y

Thats why I stuck that link in my post,it explains how they tick :y :y
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 08 August 2015, 15:22:48
Thanks Mr OM fir explaining that. I didn't know that.  :y

Beware of the fuel injection system on electric cars, Mr Bear. This can cause problems. :)

piss taking mofo's  ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Gaffers on 08 August 2015, 17:54:31
Thanks Mr OM fir explaining that. I didn't know that.  :y

Beware of the fuel injection system on electric cars, Mr Bear. This can cause problems. :)

piss taking mofo's  ;D

 ;D ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Broomies Mate on 09 August 2015, 00:48:31
I'll try to capture a 0-60 run tomorrow.  Being an Auto, it's not that special - I'm guesing at 7 seconds.  30mph to 80mph is bloody special though.  I'll ry to get that run recorded also.   :-X
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 09 August 2015, 11:14:26
This an omega broomie or a Saab (based on your profile) ? If so what engine?
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 09 August 2015, 11:29:58
I'll try to capture a 0-60 run tomorrow.  Being an Auto, it's not that special - I'm guesing at 7 seconds.  30mph to 80mph is bloody special though.  I'll ry to get that run recorded also.   :-X

I'm not sure about 30-80 but 30-70 MPH should take slightly less than 6 seconds. 5.9 seconds in my car.
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 09 August 2015, 11:35:13
I'll try to capture a 0-60 run tomorrow.  Being an Auto, it's not that special - I'm guesing at 7 seconds.  30mph to 80mph is bloody special though.  I'll ry to get that run recorded also.   :-X

I'm not sure about 30-80 but 30-70 MPH should take slightly less than 6 seconds. 5.9 seconds in my car.

What's this in opti? What engine etc?  :)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 09 August 2015, 18:54:27
Just to add to this. . .

I downloaded 3 different satellite speedo apps and all of them confirmed that my speedo is at 60mph exactly between the 60 and 65 marks (so is over reading by 2-3mph). Therefore when I rewatched the footage and stopwatched it. . . 9.25 seconds.

Therefore if I did the 'stall approach' imagine what my 2.5 could do!!!

Though, sadly, I won't be doing that. I'm sure it's fine to do but I'd rather not take the chance as I can't be arsed to fit a new transmission and/or TC in the car, nor do I have the funds to do it.

I got what I wanted. . . Confirmation that my car is just a touch quicker than the book time.

Very happy bear  :y
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 09 August 2015, 19:52:05
. . . And just to add. . .

You know the speedo needle is slightly under the zero Mark. Well I did a test with the satellite speedo and I crawled along (looking like a right weirdo  ::)) with the speedo bang on the zero Mark and it wasn't registering a speed on the apps. Therefore I start the stopwatch the exact moment the needle speedo needle starts to move  :y
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: henryd on 09 August 2015, 21:45:16
 That's a rolling start Webby,0-60 is from a standing start !!
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 10 August 2015, 07:11:38
Thanks Henry. So I start the stop watch exactly before any needles (inc. the Rev counter) move?  :)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: ted_one on 10 August 2015, 08:00:05
''When the flag drops the bullshit stops''.....drag racing saying,so to get a true reading it would have to be from a stationary start.Take your car to a Run What You Brung at the Pod....pays your money and floor it,you'll get a 60 foot time/speed and a one eighth of a mile time/speed and if you haven't broken your car at that point you'll get a terminal time and speed at the quarter mile marker. The quickest time at the Pod for a road legal Omega was around three years ago?? at the Power Vauxhall show,and it turned in a 14 second quarter mile, courtesy of some serious performance mods.If you search Youtube it's there somewhere and if you do find the clip,you'll hear a loud snapping sound....think he did a prop shaft bearing, so really if you want an accurate appraisal of your cars performance then go for it BUT....it could prove expensive :-\
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 10 August 2015, 08:13:14
Thanks Nitro.

the video I took I crawled around up to the point I started and then was stationery....im just wanting to know at exactly what point to start the stopwatch.... i.e. the moment before the revs go up...the moment before the speedo needle moves?

will look at that mate thanks :)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 10 August 2015, 20:07:19
I spoke to Henry earlier on (thanks for the tips mate).......found this video on how to do the stall method, though being American they call it a ''brake stand''

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ot8PwenuF2o

just googling around, it appears that doing this wont affect the tranny. im still a bit scared to do this. do I need to turn the TC off also?
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Mr.OmegaMan on 10 August 2015, 20:16:44
I spoke to Henry earlier on (thanks for the tips mate).......found this video on how to do the stall method, though being American they call it a ''brake stand''

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ot8PwenuF2o

just googling around, it appears that doing this wont affect the tranny. im still a bit scared to do this. do I need to turn the TC off also?

I'll try this method if you try it first  :P

Got three cameras in the car can record from various angles, Should make for some great special effects when things go BOOM!!!!  ;D

...He had some nice Gucci shoes :o
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: TheBoy on 10 August 2015, 20:18:52
I spoke to Henry earlier on (thanks for the tips mate).......found this video on how to do the stall method, though being American they call it a ''brake stand''

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ot8PwenuF2o

just googling around, it appears that doing this wont affect the tranny. im still a bit scared to do this. do I need to turn the TC off also?
It won't do the tranny any favours...
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: 05omegav6 on 10 August 2015, 20:25:47
TC off otherwise the ecu cuts the fuel... which kind of defeats the point ::)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 10 August 2015, 20:27:03
I spoke to Henry earlier on (thanks for the tips mate).......found this video on how to do the stall method, though being American they call it a ''brake stand''

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ot8PwenuF2o

just googling around, it appears that doing this wont affect the tranny. im still a bit scared to do this. do I need to turn the TC off also?
It won't do the tranny any favours...

*IF* I do have a go at this ill only be doing it once. worst case ill get a 2nd hand box/TC and fit it in the garage after work  ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: henryd on 10 August 2015, 20:38:19
I spoke to Henry earlier on (thanks for the tips mate).......found this video on how to do the stall method, though being American they call it a ''brake stand''

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ot8PwenuF2o

just googling around, it appears that doing this wont affect the tranny. im still a bit scared to do this. do I need to turn the TC off also?
It won't do the tranny any favours...

*IF* I do have a go at this ill only be doing it once. worst case ill get a 2nd hand box/TC and fit it in the garage after work  ;D

Don't be blaming me if this all turns to shit Webby. ;) ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 10 August 2015, 20:42:32
I will don't worry  ::) ;D ;D ;D

ok serious question...... who has actually done this? and who has ever fried their transmission by doing this? lol
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: henryd on 10 August 2015, 20:47:53
I will don't worry  ::) ;D ;D ;D

ok serious question...... who has actually done this? and who has ever fried their transmission by doing this? lol

I did it with my Mig and the Signum,Signum was shite as mine didn't have a nanny over ride switch,I've not felt the need to try it on 2.5 tonnes of Vw though ::)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: TheBoy on 10 August 2015, 20:52:32
I will don't worry  ::) ;D ;D ;D

ok serious question...... who has actually done this? and who has ever fried their transmission by doing this? lol
Frequently. No.
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 10 August 2015, 20:52:58
I will don't worry  ::) ;D ;D ;D

ok serious question...... who has actually done this? and who has ever fried their transmission by doing this? lol

I did it with my Mig and the Signum,Signum was shite as mine didn't have a nanny over ride switch,I've not felt the need to try it on 2.5 tonnes of Vw though ::)

I presume you mean the sugnum had no TC button?

I also presume nothing went bang ?  ;D

out of interest did you see an improvement in acceleration specifically on the mig between ''stall approach'' and normal flooring it? sorry im being a bit anal about it but just trying to ensure this is the fastest way possible befpre I decide to wreck my gearbox  ;D :)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: TheBoy on 10 August 2015, 20:53:12
Actually, that's a lie, I shagged a few AR25's in the tractor...
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 10 August 2015, 20:54:31
Actually, that's a lie, I shagged a few AR25's in the tractor...

.....specifically cos you kept stall accelerating? lol
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: TheBoy on 10 August 2015, 20:55:34
Actually, that's a lie, I shagged a few AR25's in the tractor...

.....specifically cos you kept stall accelerating? lol
Who knows, but it was producing a shit load more torque than the AR25 could cope with
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: henryd on 10 August 2015, 20:56:21
I will don't worry  ::) ;D ;D ;D

ok serious question...... who has actually done this? and who has ever fried their transmission by doing this? lol

I did it with my Mig and the Signum,Signum was shite as mine didn't have a nanny over ride switch,I've not felt the need to try it on 2.5 tonnes of Vw though ::)

I presume you mean the sugnum had no TC button?

I also presume nothing went bang ?  ;D

out of interest did you see an improvement in acceleration specifically on the mig between ''stall approach'' and normal flooring it? sorry im being a bit anal about it but just trying to ensure this is the fastest way possible befpre I decide to wreck my gearbox  ;D :)

Aye,no tc button on my Signum,did make my Omega wake up a bit but as nine was 2.5 elite estate it was a bit lardy ass anyway down to weight of toys
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 10 August 2015, 20:57:56
thanks henry. faster 0-60 is all I want  :y
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: TheBoy on 10 August 2015, 21:09:00
thanks henry. faster 0-60 is all I want  :y
Pop in a 3.0l
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: henryd on 10 August 2015, 21:19:28
thanks henry. faster 0-60 is all I want  :y
Pop in a 3.0l

That is the way forward,I wish I did that with mine instead of dicking about with 3.0 cams,there aint no substitute for cubic inches unless they are happy to be blown :y
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: 05omegav6 on 10 August 2015, 21:23:33
thanks henry. faster 0-60 is all I want  :y
Thinking out loud... doesn't the faffing around getting upto stall speed in order to shave half a gnats left bollock off the 0-60 time render the exercise somewhat pointless... ::)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: YZ250 on 10 August 2015, 21:57:01
ok serious question...... who has actually done this? ...........

Not me, not ever.  ;)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 11 August 2015, 08:36:22
Lol it is more than a gnats gonad hence why we are talking about it and it appears everyone's doing it lol

Still undecided as to whether I'll give it a crack.
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 11 August 2015, 08:36:58
ok serious question...... who has actually done this? ...........

Not me, not ever.  ;)

Lol and did it go faster?  :)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 11 August 2015, 17:21:21
So any of you crazy cats got a video of accelerating using the stall approach? Specifically in a stock 2.5 would be amazing. But any omega really.

Or would anyone who does this already be prepared to make a quick vid of it?

Would be real nice to compare book figures against times using this method
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 11 August 2015, 17:35:29
And just to ask. . . As I have to turn the traction control off is there a possibility that I could lose control? Like captain slow did when they did an American road trip? (I'll try and find a link lol)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: henryd on 11 August 2015, 17:45:00
And just to ask. . . As I have to turn the traction control off is there a possibility that I could lose control? Like captain slow did when they did an American road trip? (I'll try and find a link lol)

I doubt you'll lose the back end in the dry with a 2.5 Webby :y
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 11 August 2015, 18:11:13
Fair enough mate. Just don't want to do a captain slow   ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: TheBoy on 11 August 2015, 18:27:56
FFS Webby, get it over here, I'll break it on your behalf ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 11 August 2015, 18:59:42
FFS Webby, get it over here, I'll break it on your behalf ;D

Erm, no!  ;D

TB, youre the master at these things - can you video your next ''stall launch'' pretty pleeeease?  ;D Think of it as educating your flock  :y
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Kevin Wood on 11 August 2015, 20:25:01
FFS Webby, get it over here, I'll break it on your behalf ;D

Erm, no!  ;D

TB, youre the master at these things - can you video your next ''stall launch'' pretty pleeeease?  ;D Think of it as educating your flock  :y

You've done it now. TheBoy takes the word "launch" a little too literally. Best buy him a spare sump plug. :-X
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: T.m.f on 11 August 2015, 21:13:19
You need to do a 0-60 against Emds 2.5 manual at santa pod  ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: EMD on 11 August 2015, 23:07:08
You need to do a 0-60 against Emds 2.5 manual at santa pod  ;D

That thing is quick  :) Just needs the gear stick bending  ::)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: TheBoy on 12 August 2015, 17:26:12
FFS Webby, get it over here, I'll break it on your behalf ;D

Erm, no!  ;D

TB, youre the master at these things - can you video your next ''stall launch'' pretty pleeeease?  ;D Think of it as educating your flock  :y

You've done it now. TheBoy takes the word "launch" a little too literally. Best buy him a spare sump plug. :-X
I only lost a sumplug once, yound man.  Other lauches have damaged the front bumper, damaged the front tyres on the arches, hit the shock endstops and scratched the undertray.

But only once have I lost the sumpplug ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 12 August 2015, 17:35:03
So come on then.  Who is going to take one for the team and show me a stall launched omega video.  Just so I know this isn't a conspiracy to wreck my gearbox  ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: TheBoy on 12 August 2015, 17:39:41
So come on then.  Who is going to take one for the team and show me a stall launched omega video.  Just so I know this isn't a conspiracy to wreck my gearbox  ;D
CBA's to video ought. But more than happy to demonstrate...    ...on your car
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 12 August 2015, 18:04:13
 ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: EMD on 12 August 2015, 18:11:32
Have you thought about taking it to a rolling road , they will tell you exactly how many horses its lost from stock  :P Walk away disappointed then trade in for a 3.2  :)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: TheBoy on 12 August 2015, 18:12:18
Have you thought about taking it to a rolling road , they will tell you exactly how many horses its lost from stock  :P Walk away disappointed then trade in for a 3.2  :)
Pointless, as its an auto
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: EMD on 12 August 2015, 18:14:03
Have you thought about taking it to a rolling road , they will tell you exactly how many horses its lost from stock  :P Walk away disappointed then trade in for a 3.2  :)
Pointless, as its an auto

 :-[
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 12 August 2015, 18:17:30
Forgive my stupidity but as my compression tests are all spot on and its clear there's not saw carbon build up in the engine how would it have lost horses. . . Assuming it was manual and could be tested on rolling road?
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: BazaJT on 12 August 2015, 18:43:37
When GM quoted bhp figures were they quoting at the flywheel or at the road wheels?
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: YZ250 on 12 August 2015, 19:27:45
....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ot8PwenuF2o

just googling around, it appears that doing this wont affect the tranny. im still a bit scared to do this. do I need to turn the TC off also?

There's a bit of a contradiction in the write up below that video. In one sentence it says "It is important to turn traction control on" followed by "having traction control on limits the launch".

For Webby's benefit, when I use Launch Control in my other car, the 'Sport +' mode automatically turns traction control OFF, as already said above .Having traction off in a car that does 0-60mph in around 4.9 seconds in standard form can make life ........ interesting, especially if the ground is a bit damp.  ::) Based on that, I generally leave the buttons alone and just floor it in Sport mode, unless I'm feeling particularly adventurous.  ::)
You'll be fine in the 2.5 but remember, you are effectively holding something back that wants to go.
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 12 August 2015, 19:59:33
thanksYZ, appreciatethe input.

so basically, doing the stall approach wont makeme spin off the road...but will get me a faster time
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: 05omegav6 on 12 August 2015, 20:18:32
Forgive my stupidity but as my compression tests are all spot on and its clear there's not saw carbon build up in the engine how would it have lost horses. . . Assuming it was manual and could be tested on rolling road?
But if it were a manual, it would already be a second faster... :P
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: YZ250 on 12 August 2015, 20:24:08
thanksYZ, appreciatethe input.

so basically, doing the stall approach wont makeme spin off the road...but will get me a faster time

It's basically getting the car ready to go before you let it go. In a powerful enough car you can make a right dogs dinner of a launch start but the 2.5 is too heavy to spin out from a straight line start, unless it's wet, in which case you shouldn't be doing it.  :y
Put it this way, your right foot is telling the car to go and your left foot is preventing it from going, so it's not doing it any favours.
Do it once to satisfy yourself and then stick to sport mode, foot flat down and keep it simple. I've never bothered to time flying starts as I'm too busy watching where I'm going  ;D, so I can't answer that one.  :y
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 12 August 2015, 22:03:44
Forgive my stupidity but as my compression tests are all spot on and its clear there's not saw carbon build up in the engine how would it have lost horses. . . Assuming it was manual and could be tested on rolling road?
But if it were a manual, it would already be a second faster... :P

That is true. but whats the answer to the question..... how can a car lose horses if the copressions good, alls working well with the engine and, as we've determined before, hardly any carbon build up in a modern engine?
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 12 August 2015, 22:04:43
thanksYZ, appreciatethe input.

so basically, doing the stall approach wont makeme spin off the road...but will get me a faster time

It's basically getting the car ready to go before you let it go. In a powerful enough car you can make a right dogs dinner of a launch start but the 2.5 is too heavy to spin out from a straight line start, unless it's wet, in which case you shouldn't be doing it.  :y
Put it this way, your right foot is telling the car to go and your left foot is preventing it from going, so it's not doing it any favours.
Do it once to satisfy yourself and then stick to sport mode, foot flat down and keep it simple. I've never bothered to time flying starts as I'm too busy watching where I'm going  ;D, so I can't answer that one.  :y

Thanks mate.... that makes a lotta sense  :y
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: 05omegav6 on 12 August 2015, 22:06:06
Forgive my stupidity but as my compression tests are all spot on and its clear there's not saw carbon build up in the engine how would it have lost horses. . . Assuming it was manual and could be tested on rolling road?
But if it were a manual, it would already be a second faster... :P

That is true. but whats the answer to the question..... how can a car lose horses if the copressions good, alls working well with the engine and, as we've determined before, hardly any carbon build up in a modern engine?
Wear, dear Bear.Wear :y
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 13 August 2015, 10:41:12
Nah, the compression tests are telling you engine state and we know the bores and rings on the Omega just don't wear.

The most common cause of power loss on modern engines is past due a service, an issue or some exhaust restriction due to aged components.

Bottom line is, unlike old carb based  and open loop engines, modern donks just keep going and producing the same power from the day they were made.
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 13 August 2015, 18:07:34
Exactly what I thought. Thanks DTM  :y
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 13 August 2015, 18:44:23
Having said that. . .

If you've confirmed your compression is spot on, no issues or exhaust blocks I suppose wear in the cam shaft lobes could have a bearing on it? I've seen lots of camshaft so with a touch of wear on them . . . Including my own if I remember correctly. . . Wonder if chucking in a brand new set would help if the loss of power is small and you've checked everything else?

Thoughts?
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 13 August 2015, 18:45:37
And you can afford it obviously
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 15 August 2015, 10:44:09
Anyone?

Brand new cams, brand new lifters? Gain a bit of power?
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Andy H on 15 August 2015, 13:04:46
Anyone?

Brand new cams, brand new lifters? Gain a bit of power?
Unlikely. The difference in appearance between the tips of the cam lobes and the 'unworn' parts of the cam lobes won't amount to a significant amount of wear.

If you want more power from a 2.5 then fit (used) G cams.
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: henryd on 15 August 2015, 13:06:27
Anyone?

Brand new cams, brand new lifters? Gain a bit of power?
Unlikely. The difference in appearance between the tips of the cam lobes and the 'unworn' parts of the cam lobes won't amount to a significant amount of wear.

If you want more power from a 2.5 then fit (used) G cams.

Or a 3 litre Donk :y
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 15 August 2015, 15:53:45
Yeah totally. I've lost count how many folk have said stick 3 litre gubins in. But not wanting to. I want to keep it stock as possible but also have it working as best it can.

followers become dished though don't they? I'm thinking after 15 years they'd be quite dished?  :-\
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Andy H on 15 August 2015, 16:27:59
Yeah totally. I've lost count how many folk have said stick 3 litre gubins in. But not wanting to. I want to keep it stock as possible but also have it working as best it can.

followers become dished though don't they? I'm thinking after 15 years they'd be quite dished?  :-\
Wear will be a function of mileage and oil change interval rather than years.

Did you have to take the heads off when you had the problem doing the cambelt? Did you inspect the followers then?

Have you got a set of old ones you can put a straight edge on to check?

If you were working on an old school engine (for example a Rover V8) you would find the cams and followers to be worn out after 70,000 miles. The Omega V6 seems to be made to a higher standard and (barring failure of the lubrication system) you should find the cams and followers to be almost un-worn after 200,000 miles.

When I changed the cam cover gaskets on mine at 130,000 miles I couldn't see anything amiss & I am not planning to pull it apart again any time soon (it has now done 205,000 miles and feels as it did at 130k).
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 16 August 2015, 16:59:13
Perfect thanks for that explanation mate. I'm thinking weight of driver may have a big influence lol I'm 18 stone. I reckon that's a couple of the the over a magazine tester lol

I suppose what I mean is I want to get my stock 2.5 doing exactly what the book time says. And as there's no mechanical issues or problems I'm wondering why I can't get the 9.5 second 0-60 time. I'm thinking I spend more time practicing doing it and getting the stop watch exactly right
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 16 August 2015, 17:38:28
So. Whilst some may think this thread is a touch tedious I am learning a lot.

I know my engines running well.  Good compression.  Cam shaft wear won't be an issue. No carbon build up restricting the engine breathing.  So as its been mentioned that these Vauxhall motors should easily do their book 0-60 time why can't I lol

I'm going to do some more 0-60 runs and I'll start the moment I put my foot on the throttle and end when I get to 63 and hope that it will get the time. If not what's stopping me from hitting it?
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: 05omegav6 on 16 August 2015, 17:49:13
If you want an honest 0-60 time get someone else to drive... They won't piss about, whereas you'll always be worried about breaking it ;)

By someone else I mean TB, be he has the mechanical sympathy of a dead goat.
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 16 August 2015, 18:22:34
If you want an honest 0-60 time get someone else to drive... They won't piss about, whereas you'll always be worried about breaking it ;)

By someone else I mean TB, be he has the mechanical sympathy of a dead goat.

The problem is that TB probably weighs even more than Webby. ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: T.m.f on 16 August 2015, 18:53:37
Bring it to me 1 evening mate and il show you how to drive it properly  :y
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 16 August 2015, 19:07:26
I suppose if someone said 'right, the reason you're only getting 9.8 is cost a. You're fat b. You're not doing the stall thing and c. Some other miscellaneous thing then I'd be like 'ok, I can live with that' but it's bugging me cos I really want to try out the stall approach (for example) but I'm even more concerned I'll break it lol

Therefore I think I'm going to have to do the standard flooring it, see what I get and be happy with that knowing I could prob get my time down to 9.5 if I chose to do the stall approach. Not seeing the results for myself though I'm prob never going to be happy about it.
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: TheBoy on 17 August 2015, 18:33:13
If you want an honest 0-60 time get someone else to drive... They won't piss about, whereas you'll always be worried about breaking it ;)

By someone else I mean TB, be he has the mechanical sympathy of a dead goat.
Oi! Last time I drove Webby's, I treated it with respect.  In fact I never drive other people's cars* as hard as I drive my own, as its ultimately their pride and joy.

* Except hire cars. Obviously.
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: TheBoy on 17 August 2015, 18:34:23
If you want an honest 0-60 time get someone else to drive... They won't piss about, whereas you'll always be worried about breaking it ;)

By someone else I mean TB, be he has the mechanical sympathy of a dead goat.

The problem is that TB probably weighs even more than Webby. ;D
You forget, I've been on deaths door for a week...
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 17 August 2015, 18:42:22
If you want an honest 0-60 time get someone else to drive... They won't piss about, whereas you'll always be worried about breaking it ;)

By someone else I mean TB, be he has the mechanical sympathy of a dead goat.
Oi! Last time I drove Webby's, I treated it with respect.  In fact I never drive other people's cars* as hard as I drive my own, as its ultimately their pride and joy.

* Except hire cars. Obviously.

I still shit my pants though  ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 17 August 2015, 18:47:55
P.s. we are all agreed that for starting the stopwatch its from the moment my right foot touches the throttle

Just want to make sure I'm timing it from the right point so I can be as accurate  as possible  :y
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: TheBoy on 17 August 2015, 18:51:23
P.s. we are all agreed that for starting the stopwatch its from the moment my right foot touches the throttle

Just want to make sure I'm timing it from the right point so I can be as accurate  as possible  :y
The point of movement.
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 17 August 2015, 19:22:43
How on earth can I gauge that.  Is that going to be the moment I hit the throttle.  Also I read that testers DO do rolling starts from 3mph.  Is that how my omega would have been tested?
'
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: 05omegav6 on 17 August 2015, 19:25:42
I do wonder if you're over thinking this... ::)

Take it to a RWYB session, when the light goes green nail it, if you get to the end, they tell you  what the times were. Bish, bash, bosh ;)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: TheBoy on 17 August 2015, 19:40:56
How on earth can I gauge that.  Is that going to be the moment I hit the throttle.  Also I read that testers DO do rolling starts from 3mph.  Is that how my omega would have been tested?
'
No. The official times are from standing start. Some mags do rolling starts because their journos can't drive.
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 17 August 2015, 19:42:43
Yeah your prob right on both counts taxi.  But believe it or not I'm finding the info I'm learning fascinating.  And whilst a day at Santa pod would be great I'm enjoying learning it all by myself. . .  Obviously with all your help.

Besides this rollout is very important.  If the original testers used rollout then my car has already pissed on the 0-60 time of 9. 5. 

If they don't use rollout then I got to look deeper. . .  Which is bad news for you guys as I bombard you with questions murhah

Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 17 August 2015, 19:44:59
How on earth can I gauge that.  Is that going to be the moment I hit the throttle.  Also I read that testers DO do rolling starts from 3mph.  Is that how my omega would have been tested?
'
No. The official times are from standing start. Some mags do rolling starts because their journos can't drive.

I thought so.  And that's what Henry said but I like putting those points to the group in Cass anyone has other ideas.

So now we've sussed that how the hell do I tell when cars moving when flooring it as it all happens so fast.
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: TheBoy on 17 August 2015, 19:54:29
how the hell do I tell when cars moving when flooring it as it all happens so fast.
'ave a word, its a frickin' 2.5. Nothing ever happens fast ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 17 August 2015, 20:00:00
how the hell do I tell when cars moving when flooring it as it all happens so fast.
'ave a word, its a frickin' 2.5. Nothing ever happens fast ;D

Thanks tb lol

I'll bow down to the mighty 3litre. . .. . .   One day
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Andy H on 17 August 2015, 20:02:50
How on earth can I gauge that.  Is that going to be the moment I hit the throttle.  Also I read that testers DO do rolling starts from 3mph.  Is that how my omega would have been tested?
'
No. The official times are from standing start. Some mags do rolling starts because their journos can't drive.

I thought so.  And that's what Henry said but I like putting those points to the group in Cass anyone has other ideas.

So now we've sussed that how the hell do I tell when cars moving when flooring it as it all happens so fast.
In the 1970s they used to bolt a bicycle wheel to the rear bumper with some kind of recording device that allowed the performance to be measured. (I don't know how it worked, I assume that there must have been a paper chart recorder in there somewhere).

Nowadays they stick a black box on the dashboard to record the action, again I don't know how it works, I assume it uses a GPS receiver to track movement :-\
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: biggriffin on 17 August 2015, 20:08:38
 why?.  :o
 mmm because the bear is young.
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 17 August 2015, 20:10:49
Lol you mean why am I looking in to this.  Learning.  And intrigued.  Always been an inquisitive bear  ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: biggriffin on 17 August 2015, 20:16:53
Be baseball hat on a jaunty angle next,and santa-pod season ticket,,
"yo bear 🐻 go"
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 17 August 2015, 20:19:21
 ;D ;D ;D

I promise its just an interest.  If I can get 9. 5 I promise I'll fack orf   ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: henryd on 17 August 2015, 23:55:21
how the hell do I tell when cars moving when flooring it as it all happens so fast.
'ave a word, its a frickin' 2.5. Nothing ever happens fast ;D

Pmsl ;D ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Steve B on 18 August 2015, 01:36:13
Be baseball hat on a jaunty angle next,and santa-pod season ticket,,
"yo bear 🐻 go"
whats that  :-\

see that a few times on here....is it a gaypad thing ..Ie ; not a proper pc  :-\
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 18 August 2015, 08:16:49
Lol no offence big time but who has a PC these days lol
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Steve B on 18 August 2015, 13:27:29
Lol no offence big time but who has a PC these days lol
Not being one of them owing to i find it boring  What do you think the proper serious gamers out there are using online to play these CPU/Ram eating games on.  Its not you gaystation or sexbox or none of you craptops or gaypads .The serious gamer is putting his system together himself..And things like the graphics card alone can cost more than a craptop  ;D ;D ;D

Just one example i found:
http://www.scan.co.uk/products/6gb-msi-gtx-980ti-gaming-6g-twin-frozr-5-pcie-30-7096mhz-gddr5-gpu-1178mhz-boost-1279mhz-cores-2816-?utm_source=google+shopping&utm_medium=cpc&gclid=CP-C4a7QsscCFYvHtAodTWoO5A
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: STEMO on 18 August 2015, 13:36:03
Lol no offence big time but who has a PC these days lol
Almost every professional who needs to do serious work. Or serious gamers. Or students. Or anyone who needs to do more than just visit forums, face ache and twotter.

People who sell gaypads and the like will, of course, tell you that the pc is dead.
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: STEMO on 18 August 2015, 13:39:22
;D ;D ;D

I promise its just an interest.  If I can get 9. 5 I promise I'll fack orf   ;D

9.5 secs? Ragging the arse out of it.? My wife's megane is 1.6 is only a second and a half behind that.  ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Steve B on 18 August 2015, 14:05:27
Imagine walking into Vx main dealer And giving him a part number.. Saying "have you got one of them" And then he lifts the laptop lid up  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: YZ250 on 18 August 2015, 15:29:31
;D ;D ;D

I promise its just an interest.  If I can get 9. 5 I promise I'll fack orf   ;D

9.5 secs? Ragging the arse out of it.? My wife's megane is 1.6 is only a second and a half behind that.  ;D

Add 2 seconds to that and mine's doing a ton.  :)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: biggriffin on 18 August 2015, 15:57:23
Lol no offence big time but who has a PC these days lol
Not being one of them owing to i find it boring  What do you think the proper serious gamers out there are using online to play these CPU/Ram eating games on.  Its not you gaystation or sexbox or none of you craptops or gaypads .The serious gamer is putting his system together himself..And things like the graphics card alone can cost more than a craptop  ;D ;D ;D

Just one example i found:
http://www.scan.co.uk/products/6gb-msi-gtx-980ti-gaming-6g-twin-frozr-5-pcie-30-7096mhz-gddr5-gpu-1178mhz-boost-1279mhz-cores-2816-?utm_source=google+shopping&utm_medium=cpc&gclid=CP-C4a7QsscCFYvHtAodTWoO5A
Person who hides in a darkened room,and all his friends are virtual, :)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 18 August 2015, 18:24:08
Lol no offence big time but who has a PC these days lol
Almost every professional who needs to do serious work. Or serious gamers. Or students. Or anyone who needs to do more than just visit forums, face ache and twotter.

People who sell gaypads and the like will, of course, tell you that the pc is dead.

I should have rephrased that as I've not been clear. Clearly.

I meant no one at home has a PC anymore  :y
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: TheBoy on 18 August 2015, 18:26:10
Lol no offence big time but who has a PC these days lol
Almost every professional who needs to do serious work. Or serious gamers. Or students. Or anyone who needs to do more than just visit forums, face ache and twotter.

People who sell gaypads and the like will, of course, tell you that the pc is dead.

I should have rephrased that as I've not been clear. Clearly.

I meant no one at home has a PC anymore  :y
I can assure you I have several PCs at home, and not a single, stupid gayPad ;)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 18 August 2015, 18:27:56
Lol no offence big time but who has a PC these days lol
Almost every professional who needs to do serious work. Or serious gamers. Or students. Or anyone who needs to do more than just visit forums, face ache and twotter.

People who sell gaypads and the like will, of course, tell you that the pc is dead.

I should have rephrased that as I've not been clear. Clearly.

I meant no one at home has a PC anymore  :y
I can assure you I have several PCs at home, and not a single, stupid gayPad ;)

Ok, i'll rephrase again.....no one except TB and STMO cos they're insane have pc's anymore ::) ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: STEMO on 18 August 2015, 18:28:35
Almost everyone I know has a PC at home. What's the alternative for 'proper' work?
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 18 August 2015, 18:29:59
EVERYONE I know doesn't! maybe its cos youre over 100?  :-\ ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: STEMO on 18 August 2015, 18:45:03
EVERYONE I know doesn't! maybe its cos youre over 100?  :-\ ;D
Maybe you and you mates don't need pc's, cause you have no need of them. Try doing a job in finance, teaching, computing, graphic design.......etc., without a pc.
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 18 August 2015, 18:51:31
EVERYONE I know doesn't! maybe its cos youre over 100?  :-\ ;D
Maybe you and you mates don't need pc's, cause you have no need of them. Try doing a job in finance, teaching, computing, graphic design.......etc., without a pc.

 ;D I've worked for 13 years in the UKs largest building society whilst being part time at the garage (though, full time from literally this Thursday if interested :)) and though we use desktops at work, no one I know has a pc in their home.

but hey what do I know  ;D :y
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 18 August 2015, 18:52:20
though having said that...the big wigs have laptops, not desktops. but again in work  :y
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: STEMO on 18 August 2015, 18:55:16
EVERYONE I know doesn't! maybe its cos youre over 100?  :-\ ;D
Maybe you and you mates don't need pc's, cause you have no need of them. Try doing a job in finance, teaching, computing, graphic design.......etc., without a pc.

 ;D I've worked for 13 years in the UKs largest building society whilst being part time at the garage (though, full time from literally this Thursday if interested :)) and though we use desktops at work, no one I know has a pc in their home.

but hey what do I know  ;D :y
Not much  ;D

People who work in building societies don't usually work from home. Or even at work if they can help it  ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 18 August 2015, 19:01:12
EVERYONE I know doesn't! maybe its cos youre over 100?  :-\ ;D
Maybe you and you mates don't need pc's, cause you have no need of them. Try doing a job in finance, teaching, computing, graphic design.......etc., without a pc.

 ;D I've worked for 13 years in the UKs largest building society whilst being part time at the garage (though, full time from literally this Thursday if interested :)) and though we use desktops at work, no one I know has a pc in their home.

but hey what do I know  ;D :y
Not much  ;D

People who work in building societies don't usually work from home. Or even at work if they can help it  ;D

That is true. But my friends at Barclaycard work from home an annoyingly large amount of time and whenever they want (and get paid more than double  >:() and don't have desktop pc's. Lappies for home work.

Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Steve B on 18 August 2015, 19:16:15
EVERYONE I know doesn't! maybe its cos youre over 100?  :-\ ;D
Maybe you and you mates don't need pc's, cause you have no need of them. Try doing a job in finance, teaching, computing, graphic design.......etc., without a pc.
Laptop cannot do that..be there all day

Get a laptop to turn a Mkv Movie file into a working dvd movie and you will be there all day  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: STEMO on 18 August 2015, 19:19:00
Ok, ok.......let's agree to disagree. But as far as I'm concerned, you can't do a complicated task (or several at once) on a laptop. Give me a big, reliable pc any day.
Edit: That reply was for Webby, but that BIGtime fella interrupted me. :P
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Steve B on 18 August 2015, 19:26:58
Nooo You were slower than me  :P
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: STEMO on 18 August 2015, 19:27:49
Nooo You were slower than me  :P
How very dare you  ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Steve B on 18 August 2015, 19:28:26
Ok, ok.......let's agree to disagree. But as far as I'm concerned, you can't do a complicated task (or several at once) on a laptop. Give me a big, reliable pc any day.Without all the pre installed crap that comes with a craptop
Edit: That reply was for Webby, but that BIGtime fella interrupted me. :P
Sorted that for you
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Steve B on 18 August 2015, 19:30:47
The Laptop comes out in this house for two reasons..

1, Code reader
2, LAN Scrabble  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 18 August 2015, 19:36:12
I surrender. you guys are morons relentless.  ::) ;D

anyway I got some good news. and it involves the ''stall approach''  ::) ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Steve B on 18 August 2015, 19:38:17
I surrender. you guys are morons relentless.  ::) ;D

anyway I got some good news. and it involves the ''stall approach''  ::) ;D
So it is not that you have chucked you laptop off the top of a block of flats and it hit 60mph in less than 9 secs  :-\
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: STEMO on 18 August 2015, 19:38:47
I surrender. you guys are morons relentless.  ::) ;D

anyway I got some good news. and it involves the ''stall approach''  ::) ;D
Oh God. Stall approach. Go on, if you must.... ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 18 August 2015, 19:39:39
give me a few (to figure how to upload the video via the ipad  ;D ;D ;D)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: 05omegav6 on 18 August 2015, 19:39:53
I suspect there will be a Wanted Ad for an AR25/35 imminent  ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: STEMO on 18 August 2015, 19:40:11
I surrender. you guys are morons relentless.  ::) ;D

anyway I got some good news. and it involves the ''stall approach''  ::) ;D
So it is not that you have chucked you laptop off the top of a block of flats and it hit 60mph in less than 9 secs  :-\
Good job Opti's missus uses a laptop. Do some damage with a pc projectile.
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: STEMO on 18 August 2015, 19:41:15
give me a few (to figure how to upload the video via the ipad  ;D ;D ;D)
You'd be much better off with a..........never mind.
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Steve B on 18 August 2015, 19:42:25
Ever ran photoshop on a craptop  :-\
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: STEMO on 18 August 2015, 19:44:53
Ever ran photoshop on a craptop  :-\
No. I like photos to be like they were intended. I'd never, well, hardly ever, do something like stick a pair of tits on David Cameron.  ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 18 August 2015, 19:53:52
 ;D ;D ;D ;D

Well, I went out to the salt flats of Bonneville today..... no wait, it was the a45 between Northampton and Wellingborough  ::)

and after attempting the stall approach and failing miserably (for some reason I forgot to floor the throttle after letting the brake off...think I was more concerned about slamming in to the traffic flying past me  ::)) I got myself together and timed it bang on....

(http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee402/webbybear1/th_0-60%20-%20stall_zps3abw9s86.mp4) (http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee402/webbybear1/0-60%20-%20stall_zps3abw9s86.mp4)

got 9.39 seconds. brake on, 2500rpm, lift off brake and floor it. timed from the moment I lift off the brake all the way to 63 on the clock. 

and it gets better....

a.) I didn't brake my gearbox
b.) I could prob shave a bit more off if I lost weight (neigh on impossible)
c.) I get the impression that if I was a pro driver I could prob shave even more off if I could control the small amount of wheel spin / manipulated the throttle properly
d.) the road I was on has the most imperceptible incline. but an incline is an incline. perhaps a tenth to besaved there.

glad I gave it a go and got the result. but I shan't be doing that again  ;)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: STEMO on 18 August 2015, 19:58:29
Well done. Now stop being a knob or you'll break you car. ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 18 August 2015, 19:58:55
Well done. Now stop being a knob or you'll break you car. ;D

couldn't agree more mate  ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Steve B on 18 August 2015, 20:29:58
where did you mount camera
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 18 August 2015, 22:36:20
I got a big ball of blu tack and jammed my phone sideways on that plastic shroud between the wheel and the cluster  :y
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: T.m.f on 18 August 2015, 23:01:29
Now remove the spare wheel,jack etc,all the beer from the boot and anything else you can remove and try again  :y
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Steve B on 19 August 2015, 01:28:30
Now remove the spare wheel,jack etc,all the beer from the boot and anything else you can remove and try again  :y
And forget the camera....Plug a "my opti code reader" in click record on the live data page,And start your run at your leisure  :y  Do the math Mathamatics after...
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 19 August 2015, 07:32:18
Thanks boys.

I'm done now lol going back to driving like miss daisy.

Seriously though that is a bloody great idea re the live data. What would be the maths after  :-\
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Steve B on 19 August 2015, 09:20:30
I was Thinking Plug it in when at the launch pad then just press record and go when you are ready..Then when you get your data up on screen you will clearly see the 0-60 run...And the start & finish time .... They take around 3 reading per second.. :y


Example.. Start time 12.2 secs     Got to 60mph @ 21.4 secs = 9.2 secs 0-60

Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Kevin Wood on 19 August 2015, 10:56:09
Thanks boys.

I'm done now lol going back to driving like miss daisy.

Seriously though that is a bloody great idea re the live data. What would be the maths after  :-\

Ahh. you quit too soon, Webby. ::) I can't have been the only one seriously considering donating a 3.0 engine to your cause, just to put this thread to rest.. ;)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 19 August 2015, 15:41:04
Thanks boys.

I'm done now lol going back to driving like miss daisy.

Seriously though that is a bloody great idea re the live data. What would be the maths after  :-\

Ahh. you quit too soon, Webby. ::) I can't have been the only one seriously considering donating a 3.0 engine to your cause, just to put this thread to rest.. ;)

Hahaha thanks kev.  I like to think I'm simply keen. As opposed to soul destroying ha ha
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 19 August 2015, 15:42:36
I was Thinking Plug it in when at the launch pad then just press record and go when you are ready..Then when you get your data up on screen you will clearly see the 0-60 run...And the start & finish time .... They take around 3 reading per second.. :y


Example.. Start time 12.2 secs     Got to 60mph @ 21.4 secs = 9.2 secs 0-60

I'll have to have a look at that. Great suggestion mate.  What function is this on though on the code reader
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: TheBoy on 19 August 2015, 18:53:29
That illegal PoS code reader will be no good at 0-60 tests as the data stream is too slow. I reckon a T2 would be too slow as well, and that reads live data out far faster...
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 19 August 2015, 19:14:38
I shant bother then. Shame as it sounds like a great idea!
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 19 August 2015, 19:29:20
So not wanting to drag this thread on forever as its already done that  ::)

but...

I did a great time by...

holding foot brake
throttle to half way (revs stuck at 2500 or thereabouts)
brake off and simultaneously flooring the throttle

out of pure interest would my time be bettered further still if I....

held foot brake
throttle ALL THE WAY DOWN
released brake

????

 :y
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: 05omegav6 on 19 August 2015, 19:45:56
If you're really lucky the driveshafts won't snap...

On the first attempt ::)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 19 August 2015, 19:55:57
lol ill stick to part throttle followed by flooring it then when doing this
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: EMD on 19 August 2015, 20:01:42
If you're really lucky the driveshafts won't snap...

On the first attempt ::)

 ;D ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 19 August 2015, 20:09:58
If you're really lucky the driveshafts won't snap...

On the first attempt ::)

 ;D ;D

Thinking about it...... why would that happen? transmission is already at stall speed (2500rpm) and im thinking there may be a bunch of wheel spin... why wud that snap the drive shafts  :-\
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Andy H on 19 August 2015, 20:44:36
If you're really lucky the driveshafts won't snap...

On the first attempt ::)

 ;D ;D

Thinking about it...... why would that happen? transmission is already at stall speed (2500rpm) and im thinking there may be a bunch of wheel spin... why wud that snap the drive shafts  :-\
I am with you on this one Webby. It is shock loading that snaps drive shafts.

An automatic box makes it difficult to cause a shock load. Hold the engine on the rev limiter in a manual and then dump the clutch if you enjoy changing half shafts.
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: STEMO on 19 August 2015, 20:59:50
If you're really lucky the driveshafts won't snap...

On the first attempt ::)

 ;D ;D

Thinking about it...... why would that happen? transmission is already at stall speed (2500rpm) and im thinking there may be a bunch of wheel spin... why wud that snap the drive shafts  :-\
I am with you on this one Webby. It is shock loading that snaps drive shafts.

An automatic box makes it difficult to cause a shock load. Hold the engine on the rev limiter in a manual and then dump the clutch if you enjoy changing half shafts.
Only one way to settle this really.
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 19 August 2015, 21:07:53
If you're really lucky the driveshafts won't snap...

On the first attempt ::)

 ;D ;D

Thinking about it...... why would that happen? transmission is already at stall speed (2500rpm) and im thinking there may be a bunch of wheel spin... why wud that snap the drive shafts  :-\
I am with you on this one Webby. It is shock loading that snaps drive shafts.

An automatic box makes it difficult to cause a shock load. Hold the engine on the rev limiter in a manual and then dump the clutch if you enjoy changing half shafts.
Only one way to settle this really.

 ;D nah im done now. time for someone else to test some theories  :P ::) ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: TheBoy on 19 August 2015, 21:11:15
So not wanting to drag this thread on forever as its already done that  ::)

but...

I did a great time by...

holding foot brake
throttle to half way (revs stuck at 2500 or thereabouts)
brake off and simultaneously flooring the throttle

out of pure interest would my time be bettered further still if I....

held foot brake
throttle ALL THE WAY DOWN
released brake

????

 :y
You'll stall it. About the only way to stall an auto  (except those shitty Vauxhall Vivaro vans, which can stall on an incline because the gearbox takes about 3 years to wake up and change down)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Steve B on 19 August 2015, 21:31:05
That illegal PoS code reader will be no good at 0-60 tests as the data stream is too slow. I reckon a T2 would be too slow as well, and that reads live data out far faster...
What you mean TB  :-\  Do you mean from when the data happened compared to when it was ..Written To ram and then to file once you have stopped recording   :-\
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: STEMO on 19 August 2015, 21:34:04
That illegal PoS code reader will be no good at 0-60 tests as the data stream is too slow. I reckon a T2 would be too slow as well, and that reads live data out far faster...
What you mean TB  :-\  Do you mean from when the data happened compared to when it was ..Written To file  :-\
Surely it can't be too slow to keep up with a 2.5 omega?
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: 05omegav6 on 19 August 2015, 22:40:25
That illegal PoS code reader will be no good at 0-60 tests as the data stream is too slow. I reckon a T2 would be too slow as well, and that reads live data out far faster...
What you mean TB  :-\  Do you mean from when the data happened compared to when it was ..Written To file  :-\
Surely it can't be too slow to keep up with a 2.5 omega?
Ouch... You fan be such a bitch at times ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: 05omegav6 on 20 August 2015, 08:34:08
Damp Road and fat fingers on camera, so would ideally see a second off this, but Webby, This is how you do it...

http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/05omegav6/media/MOV_0196_000_zpsdppeebn4.mp4.html

 ;)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: ted_one on 20 August 2015, 09:06:26
Webby.....you live in Northampton,just down the road from SPR,perhaps you should pop along to the track during the Eurofinals any day from the 3rd thru to the 6th of September (I'm definitely going to be there :y) and watch how the pro's do it...0--300+ MPH in under 4 seconds,best tutorial you'll ever have and you'll get to smell the heavenly perfume of 15 gallons of Nitromethane getting consumed in under 4 seconds.......I can't wait..I never miss it :y :y
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: TheBoy on 20 August 2015, 18:08:05
That illegal PoS code reader will be no good at 0-60 tests as the data stream is too slow. I reckon a T2 would be too slow as well, and that reads live data out far faster...
What you mean TB  :-\  Do you mean from when the data happened compared to when it was ..Written To ram and then to file once you have stopped recording   :-\
No, the datastream is too slow, and doesn't have a timestamp. The timestamp is made up by the PC in software, and is irrelevant to what is in the datastream (which is also mostly made up/guessed/calculated in software in the PC).  The real data isn't the same as whats displayed in the csv.
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: TheBoy on 20 August 2015, 18:09:35
'dangle berries', now my battery charger has packed up, grrrr
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: EMD on 20 August 2015, 18:54:05
Webby.....you live in Northampton,just down the road from SPR,perhaps you should pop along to the track during the Eurofinals any day from the 3rd thru to the 6th of September (I'm definitely going to be there :y) and watch how the pro's do it...0--300+ MPH in under 4 seconds,best tutorial you'll ever have and you'll get to smell the heavenly perfume of 15 gallons of Nitromethane getting consumed in under 4 seconds.......I can't wait..I never miss it :y :y

£30 well spent / 5/6th sept  :y
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Steve B on 20 August 2015, 18:57:40
That illegal PoS code reader will be no good at 0-60 tests as the data stream is too slow. I reckon a T2 would be too slow as well, and that reads live data out far faster...
What you mean TB  :-\  Do you mean from when the data happened compared to when it was ..Written To ram and then to file once you have stopped recording   :-\
No, the datastream is too slow, and doesn't have a timestamp. The timestamp is made up by the PC in software, and is irrelevant to what is in the datastream (which is also mostly made up/guessed/calculated in software in the PC).  The real data isn't the same as whats displayed in the csv.
Ok so that idea goes out the window.

Told you webby it was a crap idea  That you came up with  ::)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 21 August 2015, 21:08:39
Out of interest  when the omega was tested would it have been with

Full tank
Any passengers
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Andy H on 21 August 2015, 21:10:34
Out of interest  when the omega was tested would it have been with

Full tank
Any passengers
No and No
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 21 August 2015, 21:12:58
Perfect thanks Andy. I presume that's to get best figures possible which is even greater news for me as I had a ton of shit in the boot  ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: TheBoy on 22 August 2015, 09:41:46
FFS, Webby, get it over here, and lets just do it ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: YZ250 on 22 August 2015, 15:11:25
FFS, Webby, get it over here, and lets just do it ;D

My word that lads led a sheltered life behind the wheel.  ;D

No offence intended Webby.   ;) :y
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 22 August 2015, 17:47:03
Out of interest  when the omega was tested would it have been with

Full tank
Any passengers


The British mags all test two up and with a full tank.They test in both directions in order to get an average figure.

The yank mags test one up (usually with a skinny tester)  and with the car running on vapour. They  test in one direction only. The direction the wind is blowing in. ::)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 22 August 2015, 17:50:45
Out of interest  when the omega was tested would it have been with

Full tank
Any passengers


The British mags all test two up and with a full tank.They test in both directions in order to get an average figure.

The yank mags test one up (usually with a skinny tester if they can find one)  and with the car running on vapour. They  test in one direction only. The direction the wind is blowing in. ::)

A skinny tester?  ???  In The States?  ::)  Are you sure about that M'lud?  :-\   ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 22 August 2015, 18:15:15
Out of interest  when the omega was tested would it have been with

Full tank
Any passengers


The British mags all test two up and with a full tank.They test in both directions in order to get an average figure.

The yank mags test one up (usually with a skinny tester if they can find one)  and with the car running on vapour. They  test in one direction only. The direction the wind is blowing in. ::)

A skinny tester?  ???  In The States?  ::)  Are you sure about that M'lud?  :-\   ;D

There must be one or two skinny runts in the States, Sir Tig. ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 23 August 2015, 18:10:01
Out of interest  when the omega was tested would it have been with

Full tank
Any passengers


The British mags all test two up and with a full tank.They test in both directions in order to get an average figure.

The yank mags test one up (usually with a skinny tester)  and with the car running on vapour. They  test in one direction only. The direction the wind is blowing in. ::)

Thanks opti. But would Vauxhall have tested the omega that way? (Or whoever did the test results you find on parkers)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 23 August 2015, 18:26:58
Out of interest  when the omega was tested would it have been with

Full tank
Any passengers


The British mags all test two up and with a full tank.They test in both directions in order to get an average figure.

The yank mags test one up (usually with a skinny tester)  and with the car running on vapour. They  test in one direction only. The direction the wind is blowing in. ::)

Thanks opti. But would Vauxhall have tested the omega that way? (Or whoever did the test results you find on parkers)

I'm not sure, Mr Bear.

I imagine they test their cars with the 'skinny guy' because it makes their figures look better.
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 23 August 2015, 18:40:12
Thanks opti.

Just interested to know as I tested my car with just me and a virtually empty tank and the extra weight would be quite detrimental. Albeit only around four tenths . But you know me. . . I'm quite anal about this now  ;D

As Andy h says there's low fuel and one person (the driver). Anyone else confirm that for sure?
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: TheBoy on 23 August 2015, 19:04:14
It doesn't matter how GM did it, as the figures GM quote in their bumpth for the Omega are too consverative
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 23 August 2015, 19:18:55
So the conclusion then is that my omega, for whatever reason, is slower than it should be.
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: TheBoy on 23 August 2015, 19:20:52
So the conclusion then is that my omega, for whatever reason, is slower than it should be.
The conclusion is at least one of the following:
The car is shite
The driver is shite
The process used is shite

I'd suggest a 2.5 auto should be nearer to 9s than 9.5s
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 23 August 2015, 19:23:43
So the conclusion then is that my omega, for whatever reason, is slower than it should be.
The conclusion is at least one of the following:
The car is shite
The driver is shite
The process used is shite

I'd suggest a 2.5 auto should be nearer to 9s than 9.5s

Far be it from me to cast the first stone but I believe that Mr bear knows where the biscuit tin is. ::) ::) ::)

Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: TheBoy on 23 August 2015, 19:26:18
Good rear tyres also help to get the best possible traction, though less of an issue on a 2.5
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: ted_one on 23 August 2015, 19:33:34
No more messing!! go and buy a 3.0 or 3.2 and then chill with the knowledge that you can get down the road that bit quicker than most of the boy racers in their cut and shut shit boxes :y
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: TheBoy on 23 August 2015, 19:35:33
No more messing!! go and buy a 3.0 or 3.2 and then chill with the knowledge that you can get down the road that bit quicker than most of the boy racers in their cut and shut shit boxes :y
Some chavved up beemer, properly slammed, fancied his chances earlier. After the first speed bump, he was left for dust ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Steve B on 23 August 2015, 19:39:50
No more messing!! go and buy a 3.0 or 3.2 and then chill with the knowledge that you can get down the road that bit quicker than most of the boy racers in their cut and shut shit boxes :y
Some chavved up beemer, properly slammed, fancied his chances earlier. After the first speed bump, he was left for dust ;D
I do a miss daisy over them..Owing to the lack of replacement Springs
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: ted_one on 23 August 2015, 19:41:38
I must admit I'm a bit partial to traffic light tear up :y
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 23 August 2015, 20:03:55
So the conclusion then is that my omega, for whatever reason, is slower than it should be.
The conclusion is at least one of the following:
The car is shite
The driver is shite
The process used is shite

I'd suggest a 2.5 auto should be nearer to 9s than 9.5s

Far be it from me to cast the first stone but I believe that Mr bear knows where the biscuit tin is. ::) ::) ::)

??? Lol
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 23 August 2015, 20:09:12
So the conclusion then is that my omega, for whatever reason, is slower than it should be.
The conclusion is at least one of the following:
The car is shite
The driver is shite
The process used is shite

I'd suggest a 2.5 auto should be nearer to 9s than 9.5s

The process. . . As in the methods used to test? And obvious variables?

Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 23 August 2015, 20:10:50
Lol I'm not getting a 3.0 or 3.2. I just want my 2.5 to do what it should. Nothing more.
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: STEMO on 23 August 2015, 20:20:59
Lol I'm not getting a 3.0 or 3.2. I just want my 2.5 to do what it should. Nothing more.
Or what it would have done fifteen years ago when it was new.
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 23 August 2015, 20:25:37
Lol I'm not getting a 3.0 or 3.2. I just want my 2.5 to do what it should. Nothing more.
Or what it would have done fifteen years ago when it was new.

That I would have agreed with. But throughout this thread I've discovered that wear in the engine isn't an issue. Compressions bang on. There's little to no carbon build up in modern engines. And the cars running absolutely great. Nice n smooth. Just this apparent lack of power.

So. If the 2.5 should do around 9 secs for a 0-60, where the fek is the problem?
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Andy H on 23 August 2015, 21:14:39
Lol I'm not getting a 3.0 or 3.2. I just want my 2.5 to do what it should. Nothing more.
Or what it would have done fifteen years ago when it was new.

That I would have agreed with. But throughout this thread I've discovered that wear in the engine isn't an issue. Compressions bang on. There's little to no carbon build up in modern engines. And the cars running absolutely great. Nice n smooth. Just this apparent lack of power.

So. If the 2.5 should do around 9 secs for a 0-60, where the fek is the problem?
In your head?
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 24 August 2015, 10:17:43
Andy, you could well be right!  ::) ;)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 24 August 2015, 11:29:58
I doubt an elderly 2.5 would crack ten seconds with a 'weighty' driver at the helm. ::) ::) ::) :)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 24 August 2015, 11:57:20
I doubt an elderly 2.5 would crack ten seconds with a 'weighty' driver at the helm. ::) ::) ::) :)

True, but I wanted to have a scientific reason for why it wont do it as my extra ''love handles'' shouldn't make that much difference according to the 0-60 calculator on the tinternet.

Who knows.  ::)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Viral_Jim on 24 August 2015, 12:10:34
Leaving the engine aside, surely there's 15 years' wear on the Autobox as well. I can't think that the changes will be as quick as the day she rolled off the production line, nor that the torque converter is 100% of its former self?

These could account for (at least some of) your lost pace?
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 24 August 2015, 12:15:41
Thanks Jimmy. You could totally be right. Maybe a culmination of small things  :-\

At the end of the day the car did under 9.5. But that's just with me. I suppose I really need to get out there with a passenger (my 18st plus a smaller passenger  ;D) and a full tank to see how far off it actually is.

or

contact GM to find out once and for all how the car was tested to be 100% sure. I'm crazy enough to do that!  :-X
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: STEMO on 24 August 2015, 13:51:16
They'd have to phone a friend, someone retired no doubt. ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 24 August 2015, 13:55:39
 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 24 August 2015, 21:29:31
Thanks Jimmy. You could totally be right. Maybe a culmination of small things  :-\

At the end of the day the car did under 9.5. But that's just with me. I suppose I really need to get out there with a passenger (my 18st plus a smaller passenger  ;D) and a full tank to see how far off it actually is.

or

contact GM to find out once and for all how the car was tested to be 100% sure. I'm crazy enough to do that!  :-X

A few e mails sent  ::) ;D will let you all know (assuming youre interested like me) if / when I get a response  :)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Diamond Black Geezer on 25 August 2015, 09:23:03
From reading an article a few years back re: how auto makers actually test the 0-60 times, you're basically (in a manual, I grant you) sitting her in 1st, foot on clutch, build the revs to 3500 or something criminal, then lift the left pedal immediately, and away you go. This was tried on an Aston Vantage and after three attempts the diff shredded. The 0-60 in a way is a potential figure your car 'can/may do', really; as opposed to a 'you'll get this figure every day, regular as clockwork' kind of thing.

(http://www.carfolio.com/images/dbimages/zgas/models/id/1889/VirVantage.jpg)

yup, on of them Vantages, so that's how old the report was. It's brutal, punishing on the mechanicals, and if it took ten attempts and three cars to get that figure, then so be it. Only a few of us on here have two or three spare Omegas to fall back on  :y


Also dont forget that the standard of rubber, and the road surface will also play a part. If you're not on slicks and on fresh grippy tarmac on a hot day then you may never acheive that magic 9 secs the brochure claims.

Personally I'd be well happy with that figure you've achieved. Boy done good.  :y :y
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Gaffers on 25 August 2015, 10:13:36
So, after 16 pages, can we finally put this 'dangle berries' to rest?  ::)

Edit: 17!!!! ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: mka306 on 25 August 2015, 10:42:05
Due to me requiring a higher post count i'd ask that this is continued so I can continue to post until I have the required count :0
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Gaffers on 25 August 2015, 10:45:05
nearly there, fresh meat ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: mka306 on 25 August 2015, 10:57:12
Lol, yeh fresh and no doubt ready for the slaughter but I don't mind it's all good fun.
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 25 August 2015, 19:45:22
So had a reply from Vaux!  :o :y

Service Request number - 489214-1011714003

Date – 25 August 2015

Dear Mr Webb

Thank you for your email received 25 August 2015 regarding your Vauxhall Omega.

I can advise that I have spoken to our Technical Department regarding your query and they have confirmed that normally all these tests are carried out with an independent department, so we would not know the exact testing conditions and have no way of finding out. They would assume that the vehicle would have only had a driver, no spare wheel and very little fuel in the tank.


So, though not a definite answer it's progress (though I've replied to them asking if they knew who these people are so I can contact them).

Why am I doing this? several reasons....

1.) I don't agree  :P ;D that the testing conditions aren't important. if we reckon as a group that the Vaux figures are conservative and that the 2.5 should be nearer to 9....well mine was....but only under the circs above (one fekking fatdriver, low fuel). if I did the test with a passenger and a full load of fuel my car would struggle to do 10 / 10.5 seconds. therefore of course the exact conditions are important....if they weren't then we'd expect 9 seconds with full luggage and 5 passengers and 5 dogs.

2.) to annoy you naysaying morons!  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 25 August 2015, 19:46:56
ps, dbg. totally get what youre saying and I am very pleased with it especially after doing pretty much everything I can to get the conditions bang on. im obsessed now though  ;D.
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 25 August 2015, 19:50:16
....and whilst I'm here.... youre bang on about that scenario with the aston mate. what I love about the omega is that its very consistent. maybe that's cos of the autobox though. obviously manuals bring even more variables with getting shifting bang on every time
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Viral_Jim on 26 August 2015, 10:57:47
To hit the the manufacturer's quoted 0-60 time in a lot of manual cars requires the driver to be willing to hit or exced the redline (usually in 2nd) to minimise the number of gearchanges.

Regarding the 0-60 from VX, I would imagine they do everything possible to get the best result. I wouldn't be surprised if that included taping up panel gaps, removing anything that can easily be removed to save weight or improve aerodynamics (wiper blades, spare wheel, ashtray etc etc). Like fuel economy, I wouldn't expect it to be re-performable in the "real world", even with a brand new motor.
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 26 August 2015, 11:24:46
So had a reply from Vaux!  :o :y

Service Request number - 489214-1011714003

Date – 25 August 2015

Dear Mr Webb

Thank you for your email received 25 August 2015 regarding your Vauxhall Omega.

I can advise that I have spoken to our Technical Department regarding your query and they have confirmed that normally all these tests are carried out with an independent department, so we would not know the exact testing conditions and have no way of finding out. They would assume that the vehicle would have only had a driver, no spare wheel and very little fuel in the tank.


So, though not a definite answer it's progress (though I've replied to them asking if they knew who these people are so I can contact them).

Why am I doing this? several reasons....

1.) I don't agree  :P ;D that the testing conditions aren't important. if we reckon as a group that the Vaux figures are conservative and that the 2.5 should be nearer to 9....well mine was....but only under the circs above (one fekking fatdriver, low fuel). if I did the test with a passenger and a full load of fuel my car would struggle to do 10 / 10.5 seconds. therefore of course the exact conditions are important....if they weren't then we'd expect 9 seconds with full luggage and 5 passengers and 5 dogs.

2.) to annoy you naysaying morons!  ;D ;D ;D


Mr Bear, I'm amazed that Vauxhall seem unsure how they obtain their own performance figures.  :-\

I think my 2.6 auto was a pretty healthy example of the marque. ........with a best of zero to sixty in 8.68 seconds in 137.60 metres.

Driver only......flat road.......no wind......low petrol. :y




Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: mka306 on 26 August 2015, 11:29:49
I now have my post count up as some may know due to my car being advertised but I do still read this thread as I have to say it has been very interesting and I do love your shear determination to find out everything you can and prove your figures, keep going I say and good luck with getting your answers, I will be watching this thread with great interest.
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: biggriffin on 26 August 2015, 12:58:57
I now have my post count up as some may know due to my car being advertised but I do still read this thread as I have to say it has been very interesting and I do love your shear determination to find out everything you can and prove your figures, keep going I say and good luck with getting your answers, I will be watching this thread with great interest.

There we go young bear get a faster 3.2, get rid of the asthmatic 2.5, and a 3.2 accelerate's faster. :)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: EMD on 26 August 2015, 18:12:21
I now have my post count up as some may know due to my car being advertised but I do still read this thread as I have to say it has been very interesting and I do love your shear determination to find out everything you can and prove your figures, keep going I say and good luck with getting your answers, I will be watching this thread with great interest.

There we go young bear get a faster 3.2, get rid of the asthmatic 2.5, and a 3.2 accelerate's faster. :)

Is that the official name for the smaller V6  ::) :D I think my 2.5 manual would leave the 2.6 auto for dead  :-\
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 26 August 2015, 18:32:39
Next time I go to Wales I'll try my 2.5's 0-60 out of the traps at the Severn Bridge, and then we can really put this 'dangle berries' to rest!  :y  ;D

Why the Severn Bridge?  ???  Because I'm not wealthy enough to have my own private test track....  :P  ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 26 August 2015, 19:32:08
I now have my post count up as some may know due to my car being advertised but I do still read this thread as I have to say it has been very interesting and I do love your shear determination to find out everything you can and prove your figures, keep going I say and good luck with getting your answers, I will be watching this thread with great interest.

Thanks mka.  I'm persistent if nothing else ha ha
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 26 August 2015, 19:44:22
Some interesting developments  ;D

Ok so was browsing parkers again and my facelift is actually down as 9. 2. The 9. 5 figure I was looking at was for the cars from 94 to 99. So thinking that's the original model.

However as my car did just under 9. 5 and if I subtract my extra weight AND the weight of the spare its exactly 9. 19.

So what does this mean...

If Vauxhall test their motors taking all sorts of weight reducing actions like low fuel,  1 driver,  no spare then the car is EXACTLY bang on.

If however they achieved 9. 2 with 2 up,  fuel,  spare etc. Then my cars nowhere near and I need to do some more testing to get the timing as best as I can achieve and hope that it was my driving letting me down.

Hopefully tho the former is correct as per thoughts on here and the e mail from Vauxhall
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Steve B on 26 August 2015, 19:48:50
Some interesting developments  ;D

Ok so was browsing parkers again and my facelift is actually down as 9. 2. The 9. 5 figure I was looking at was for the cars from 94 to 99. So thinking that's the original model.

However as my car did just under 9. 5 and if I subtract my extra weight AND the weight of the spare its exactly 9. 19.

So what does this mean...

If Vauxhall test their motors taking all sorts of weight reducing actions like low fuel,  1 driver,  no spare then the car is EXACTLY bang on.

If however they achieved 9. 2 with 2 up,  fuel,  spare etc. Then my cars nowhere near and I need to do some more testing to get the timing as best as I can achieve and hope that it was my driving letting me down.

Hopefully tho the former is correct as per thoughts on here and the e mail from Vauxhall
It means your gonna start off at the beginning   ::) ::)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 26 August 2015, 19:57:31
Perhaps but you must consider that however tedious this thread is at least I've learned f...... g shed loads.

Plus,  I don't find this subject anywhere near as dull as 'what's the best winter tyre' threads  ;D but each to his own of course  :y
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: TheBoy on 27 August 2015, 18:06:50
I think my 2.6 auto was a pretty healthy example of the marque. ........with a best of zero to sixty in 8.68 seconds in 137.60 metres.
So the 2.5 should be a shade quicker, as no compromised by the design decisions on the later engines (performance wise, around the CR)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: EMD on 27 August 2015, 19:42:12
Has TB done a 0-60 in this 2.5 yet  ::)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: T.m.f on 27 August 2015, 19:46:04
Omg longest thread that isnt tyre related,wouldnt worry about 0-60 no car is ever the same and no driver is the same,now 0-60 of the 2.2 frontera i dont care about as i never got it for that ,if i was bothered i would have kept the mv6 i had.  :y
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 27 August 2015, 20:00:41
I think my 2.6 auto was a pretty healthy example of the marque. ........with a best of zero to sixty in 8.68 seconds in 137.60 metres.
So the 2.5 should be a shade quicker, as no compromised by the design decisions on the later engines (performance wise, around the CR)

Not sure why the 2.5 would be quicker than the 2.6......... the 2.5 has a book time of 9.2 to 9.5 seconds. the 2.6 has a book time of 8.2 seconds.
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 27 August 2015, 20:07:19
Omg longest thread that isnt tyre related,wouldnt worry about 0-60 no car is ever the same and no driver is the same,now 0-60 of the 2.2 frontera i dont care about as i never got it for that ,if i was bothered i would have kept the mv6 i had.  :y

not quite mate.....iirc the bus nostalgia thread went on a bit  :o ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 27 August 2015, 20:18:48
So, in poker terms I'm going all in with this  ;D

SO as the lady (though very polite) at Vauxhall couldn't help from her department I'm simply going to do what I've been doing in the banking industry for over a decade.....and go over her head.  ::) :y

I am literally prepared to write to the CEO of Vauxhall for him/her to delegate the query to the correct department to get a final response on this.

Before I do this..... is there anyone on 'ere that works for Vauxhall that would know who to contact in the company?
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: 05omegav6 on 27 August 2015, 21:07:31
Er... The CEO? ::)

Used to a nice chap called Bob Lutz...
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 27 August 2015, 21:13:19
Er... The CEO? ::)

Used to a nice chap called Bob Lutz...

Yup...

(http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee402/webbybear1/hbdc_zps62d9emzk.jpg) (http://s1226.photobucket.com/user/webbybear1/media/hbdc_zps62d9emzk.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: STEMO on 27 August 2015, 22:21:21
Bob Lutz left GM in 2010.
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: 05omegav6 on 27 August 2015, 23:19:14
Bob Lutz left GM in 2010.
Did say used to be... ::)

 ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 28 August 2015, 00:39:46
I think The Bear needs to go down the pub a bit more!  ::)  :P  ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: T.m.f on 28 August 2015, 13:10:01
Another factor to add in is what the weather conditions were when original test was done  :y
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Diamond Black Geezer on 28 August 2015, 16:35:00
Ian Coomber of the VBOA may be able to give you some info. He was 2nd in command at Luton for donkeys years, passionate about Vauxhalls (owns a 1930s T-Type himself) and a nice chap to boot. He's the guy who stands in the centre of the ring with microphone at Billing giving a pocket history of every car that comes in to take a turn. Often with an interesting anecdote.

Keith B or someone else similarly high-up in ABS or contacting the VBOA direct will help you get in contact with him.

I apologise in advance to Mr Coomber for being pestered by Webby  :D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 28 August 2015, 20:12:33
DBG, you're an absolute star.

Will stalk contact him immediately  :y
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Rods2 on 28 August 2015, 20:27:26
0-60 is a bit old fashioned these days, normally 0-100kph is quoted, hence we get 0-62. Just out of curiosity, what are the Omega times for this, so we can compare to newer vehicles official figures? ???
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 28 August 2015, 20:42:22
0-60 is a bit old fashioned these days, normally 0-100kph is quoted, hence we get 0-62. Just out of curiosity, what are the Omega times for this, so we can compare to newer vehicles official figures? ???

Yeah it is. 0-100kph or 0-62mph is the usual standard. but in omega terms it's imperial all the way  ;D

if you search parkers vx omega and go to ''facts and figures'' youll see all the model variants.

then do the same with the modern vehicle you want to look at  :y
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: biggriffin on 28 August 2015, 21:02:01
Ian Coomber of the VBOA may be able to give you some info. He was 2nd in command at Luton for donkeys years, passionate about Vauxhalls (owns a 1930s T-Type himself) and a nice chap to boot. He's the guy who stands in the centre of the ring with microphone at Billing giving a pocket history of every car that comes in to take a turn. Often with an interesting anecdote.

Keith B or someone else similarly high-up in ABS or contacting the VBOA direct will help you get in contact with him.

I apologise in advance to Mr Coomber for being pestered by Webby  :D
Could try Andrew durden, was Russell Brookes co driver, and a few other GM drivers, GM man thro, think works at heritage centre now, nice bloke too. :y
But are either of them ready to be stalked by THE BEAR.
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 28 August 2015, 21:15:42
 ;D

Thanks BG. I'll see= what I get from VBOA first and then do some more stalking if necessary  ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 29 August 2015, 21:34:27
Well, I've had a response from Ian and it's perfect...

Stephen

The Omega is dear to my heart as it was the first Vauxhall I was responsible for launching in the UK as newly promoted Executive Director of Sales and Marketing. In those Manufacturing led days, the fact that all the launch cars were that peculiar aubergine colour rather took the shine of it however!

I have no personal knowledge of how the cars were tested. However, I can confirm that no performance testing was carried out in the UK. We took all our catalogue data from Opel who would have established the data at the Dudenhofen Proving Ground. And of course, the benchmeark would not have been 0-60 mph but 0 to 100 kph (62 mph). I am guessing, but I would be sure that the figures were obtained on an external test track with just the driver on board and low fuelling. I would also guess that the spare wheel would be on board as it was part of the standard equipment like the ICE etc. However, if a space saver was listed as an option that would be selected as a lower weight item.

I'm sorry this isn't more helpful.

Kind regards

Ian


...were they all aubergine?  :-\ ;D

So. 1 driver, low fuel, spare included (I never took it out!). This means that the timing for my car (when I take out my extra love handles) is bang on around the 9.2 second mark.

Obviously ian mentions that it would have been done as 0-100kph but the figures we've got are 0-60 and all I wanted to do was check testing conditions.

So. confirmation that my old banger does exactly what its meant to! nothing more, nothing less :y :y :y :y :y

now..... off to look in to super chips remaps  ::) ;D

 
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Broomies Mate on 29 August 2015, 21:47:18
I
Don't
Want
To
Live
On
This
Planet
Anymore
 ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 29 August 2015, 22:07:16
Well, I've had a response from Ian and it's perfect...

Stephen

The Omega is dear to my heart as it was the first Vauxhall I was responsible for launching in the UK as newly promoted Executive Director of Sales and Marketing. In those Manufacturing led days, the fact that all the launch cars were that peculiar aubergine colour rather took the shine of it however!

I have no personal knowledge of how the cars were tested. However, I can confirm that no performance testing was carried out in the UK. We took all our catalogue data from Opel who would have established the data at the Dudenhofen Proving Ground. And of course, the benchmeark would not have been 0-60 mph but 0 to 100 kph (62 mph). I am guessing, but I would be sure that the figures were obtained on an external test track with just the driver on board and low fuelling. I would also guess that the spare wheel would be on board as it was part of the standard equipment like the ICE etc. However, if a space saver was listed as an option that would be selected as a lower weight item.

I'm sorry this isn't more helpful.

Kind regards

Ian


...were they all aubergine?  :-\ ;D

So. 1 driver, low fuel, spare included (I never took it out!). This means that the timing for my car (when I take out my extra love handles) is bang on around the 9.2 second mark.

Obviously ian mentions that it would have been done as 0-100kph but the figures we've got are 0-60 and all I wanted to do was check testing conditions.

So. confirmation that my old banger does exactly what its meant to! nothing more, nothing less :y :y :y :y :y

now..... off to look in to super chips remaps  ::) ;D

This will make next to SFA difference as the Omega is NA. :(
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 29 August 2015, 22:10:33
Well, I've had a response from Ian and it's perfect...

Stephen

The Omega is dear to my heart as it was the first Vauxhall I was responsible for launching in the UK as newly promoted Executive Director of Sales and Marketing. In those Manufacturing led days, the fact that all the launch cars were that peculiar aubergine colour rather took the shine of it however!

I have no personal knowledge of how the cars were tested. However, I can confirm that no performance testing was carried out in the UK. We took all our catalogue data from Opel who would have established the data at the Dudenhofen Proving Ground. And of course, the benchmeark would not have been 0-60 mph but 0 to 100 kph (62 mph). I am guessing, but I would be sure that the figures were obtained on an external test track with just the driver on board and low fuelling. I would also guess that the spare wheel would be on board as it was part of the standard equipment like the ICE etc. However, if a space saver was listed as an option that would be selected as a lower weight item.

I'm sorry this isn't more helpful.

Kind regards

Ian


...were they all aubergine?  :-\ ;D

So. 1 driver, low fuel, spare included (I never took it out!). This means that the timing for my car (when I take out my extra love handles) is bang on around the 9.2 second mark.

Obviously ian mentions that it would have been done as 0-100kph but the figures we've got are 0-60 and all I wanted to do was check testing conditions.

So. confirmation that my old banger does exactly what its meant to! nothing more, nothing less :y :y :y :y :y

now..... off to look in to super chips remaps  ::) ;D

This will make next to SFA difference as the Omega is NA. :(

Maybe, but I wont know 'til I try it  :y
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 29 August 2015, 22:10:52
I
Don't
Want
To
Live
On
This
Planet
Anymore
 ;D

So rude  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Broomies Mate on 29 August 2015, 22:30:35
Webster, I know these guys are a bit annoying, but I find them entertaining at the same time.

Worth a watch?

https://youtu.be/VGtImIP6j3A (https://youtu.be/VGtImIP6j3A)

Don't blame me if you watch loads of their video's..... I have - Some are funny as f, others..... not so.  ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Mr.OmegaMan on 29 August 2015, 23:03:49
Webster, I know these guys are a bit annoying, but I find them entertaining at the same time.

Worth a watch?

https://youtu.be/VGtImIP6j3A (https://youtu.be/VGtImIP6j3A)

Don't blame me if you watch loads of their video's..... I have - Some are funny as f, others..... not so.  ;D

Interesting watch, Looks similar to this one LINK (http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=181598149413&globalID=EBAY-GB) for the Omega apparently. Wonder if this box has a red and green LED  ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: biggriffin on 30 August 2015, 08:49:46
Is the next thread young bear 'how close to GM's top speed can an omega get' :)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 30 August 2015, 12:16:55
lol I have seen the performance chips episode. I like MCM.

the thing is in that episode they bought a $20 chip from ebay that had nothing in it so would that be different to the superchips?

anyway, really not bothered. I got what I wanted. and hopefully this thread will help others wanting to do their 0-60

 :y
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: TheBoy on 31 August 2015, 12:18:51
I think my 2.6 auto was a pretty healthy example of the marque. ........with a best of zero to sixty in 8.68 seconds in 137.60 metres.
So the 2.5 should be a shade quicker, as no compromised by the design decisions on the later engines (performance wise, around the CR)

Not sure why the 2.5 would be quicker than the 2.6......... the 2.5 has a book time of 9.2 to 9.5 seconds. the 2.6 has a book time of 8.2 seconds.
Completely ignore the book times, as we have all said several times before.

The 2.5 can easily beat 9.5s, and a standard 2.6 auto will never hit 8.2s.
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 31 August 2015, 12:36:54
I think my 2.6 auto was a pretty healthy example of the marque. ........with a best of zero to sixty in 8.68 seconds in 137.60 metres.
So the 2.5 should be a shade quicker, as no compromised by the design decisions on the later engines (performance wise, around the CR)

Not sure why the 2.5 would be quicker than the 2.6......... the 2.5 has a book time of 9.2 to 9.5 seconds. the 2.6 has a book time of 8.2 seconds.
Completely ignore the book times, as we have all said several times before.

The 2.5 can easily beat 9.5s, and a standard 2.6 auto will never hit 8.2s.

It all depend on how speed distance and time are measured.

Using a hand held stopwatch and then glancing at the speedo I imagine even a glacial 2.0 auto could go 'sub 5'.... ::) ::) ::) ;)

However, the reality is somewhat different. :-\ :-\



Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 31 August 2015, 14:19:03
...which is why I was doing it more scientific. As in film it and then ensure the time is started and finished bang on.

As for the 2.6 you'll have to do your own tests for that as I'm not going to buy one just to test the acceleration lol
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 31 August 2015, 16:27:57
As this thread is so very long I thought it best I sum up exactly how to do and how I did this test just in case there are any doubts...

low fuel
single driver
spare still in boot

flat piece of road
dry day
brake on. 2500rpm. brake off (the moment to start timing...I shout ''go'' in my video so I can time this accurately when reviewing the footage) and then floor it.
I drive with foot flat. stop the clock when my car hits 62 as that's when my cars doing 60.

9.44 seconds. and that was with my lard arse driving. take my weight off and its bang on the 9.2 mark. EXACTLY as the book states.

now whilst I amvery happy with this I still think there's a few tenths to be had.......I reckon a bit more practise and the ''torque braking'' I could perfect even further.

also I never even bothered pumping up the tyres. this perhaps could save me another tenth or so.

so after all this testing I am in agreement with TB that it well beats 9.5.

so where does this leave us (other than really bored and wishing the world would end  ;D)......I'd say its time for one of you armchair experts to do exactly the same with the 2.6 and see what it can do in comparison  :P ;) :y
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 01 September 2015, 20:10:29
Ok, for those who aren't bored to death  ;D a n interesting answer directly from Vauxhall. . . . .


In general the test weight definition for performance testing is curb weight of the base model (no options) + 200 kg. This is neither Opel/Vauxhall nor GM standard, but based on European Manufacturers’ “tradition” / agreement, aiming at representing an average Customer configuration. The 200kg stand for driver, luggage and average option content. Some Customer vehicles with many options may end up being heavier. “Curb weight” is defined as vehicle in “roadworthy” condition and tank filled to 90% but without driver, per EU regulations.
 
- do you test with one driver and no passengers             
Yes. One driver plus measurement equipment and ballast in case need (see definition above). At the end it doesn’t matter, as the total Test Weight is relevant.
- do you test with a full tank, half tank or near-empty   
as before: not relevant -> goal is to adjust the effective test weight to the target Test Weight (see definition above)
- do you remove the spare wheel
Just in case that we are not able to adjust to target Test Weight by other means
- do you test in 'lab conditions' where wind / weather are of no concern or do you use a test track open to the elements.
Tests are done on test track. Weather and wind are taken into account. We either use circular track or test in both directions.
In every case, test condition must be within a specific range. For example:
·         All road tests must be conducted at a certain ambient temperature range
·         Road tests may not be conducted when wind speeds average over a certain speed, with gusts no greater than another certain speed.
·         Track must be totally dry
 
Some other testing considerations:
·         Tires: Out of the OEM tire choice we use well balanced tires regarding dynamic attributes (handling, braking, rolling resistance, etc.) under different conditions. Customer vehicles may have other tires (Aftersales?) with other characteristics.
·         Test: we use very experienced test drivers that achieve optimum performance, incl. fast shifts (manual trans) and optimum launch
·         metric vs. imperial units: we rarely test 0-60mph but usually test 0-100 kph. 0-60 time is then determined analytically.
·         Over time there have been different approaches regarding what test result to publish: average of several vehicles & test periods or only best set out of them (still providing an average of several test runs to neutralize ambient conditions variations)


So, using this way, unless I can weigh my car I've no way of knowing how much over the curb weight the car is.

Or am i being simple?  ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Andy H on 01 September 2015, 20:30:12
Ok, for those who aren't bored to death  ;D a n interesting answer directly from Vauxhall. . . . .


In general the test weight definition for performance testing is curb weight of the base model (no options) + 200 kg. This is neither Opel/Vauxhall nor GM standard, but based on European Manufacturers’ “tradition” / agreement, aiming at representing an average Customer configuration. The 200kg stand for driver, luggage and average option content. Some Customer vehicles with many options may end up being heavier. “Curb weight” is defined as vehicle in “roadworthy” condition and tank filled to 90% but without driver, per EU regulations.
 
- do you test with one driver and no passengers             
Yes. One driver plus measurement equipment and ballast in case need (see definition above). At the end it doesn’t matter, as the total Test Weight is relevant.
- do you test with a full tank, half tank or near-empty   
as before: not relevant -> goal is to adjust the effective test weight to the target Test Weight (see definition above)
- do you remove the spare wheel
Just in case that we are not able to adjust to target Test Weight by other means
- do you test in 'lab conditions' where wind / weather are of no concern or do you use a test track open to the elements.
Tests are done on test track. Weather and wind are taken into account. We either use circular track or test in both directions.
In every case, test condition must be within a specific range. For example:
·         All road tests must be conducted at a certain ambient temperature range
·         Road tests may not be conducted when wind speeds average over a certain speed, with gusts no greater than another certain speed.
·         Track must be totally dry
 
Some other testing considerations:
·         Tires: Out of the OEM tire choice we use well balanced tires regarding dynamic attributes (handling, braking, rolling resistance, etc.) under different conditions. Customer vehicles may have other tires (Aftersales?) with other characteristics.
·         Test: we use very experienced test drivers that achieve optimum performance, incl. fast shifts (manual trans) and optimum launch
·         metric vs. imperial units: we rarely test 0-60mph but usually test 0-100 kph. 0-60 time is then determined analytically.
·         Over time there have been different approaches regarding what test result to publish: average of several vehicles & test periods or only best set out of them (still providing an average of several test runs to neutralize ambient conditions variations)


So, using this way, unless I can weigh my car I've no way of knowing how much over the curb weight the car is.

Or am i being simple?  ;D
Find yourself a scrap metal yard with a weighbridge - ask them to weigh the car & give you a printout :y (be ready for some ribbing and comments about leaving it with them............)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Migv6 le Frog Fan on 01 September 2015, 20:32:07
I can officially tell you that the Omega is not a quick / fast car by any stretch of the imagination, so it isn't worth worrying about really.  ;) ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 02 September 2015, 18:35:46
Thanks Andy. I may just do that!  :y

So, just so I've got this right... they take the kerb weight with no options (like a/c). and add 200kg,

in my instance parkers says its 1718kg. so adding 200kg is 1918kg.

So. if I got my car weighed and lets say it weighed 1800kg. I'd then jump in and make the total 1914kg..... I then need to just add an extra 4kg and then im ready to test.

have I got the theory right?

if so anyone know what I can expect my car to weigh? it has a/c.  :-\
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 02 September 2015, 18:47:02
Thanks Andy. I may just do that!  :y

So, just so I've got this right... they take the kerb weight with no options (like a/c). and add 200kg,

in my instance parkers says its 1718kg. so adding 200kg is 1918kg.

So. if I got my car weighed and lets say it weighed 1800kg. I'd then jump in and make the total 1914kg..... I then need to just add an extra 4kg and then im ready to test.

have I got the theory right?

if so anyone know what I can expect my car to weigh? it has a/c. :-\

How long is a piece of string?

Does it have a tow bar?

Is the car to be weighed without all fluids (Dry)?........or with oil and coolant etc..etc.

Is is difficult to get a definitive figure of what an individual car weighs unless you have access to a a set of accurate car scales like the magazines use, or a weighbridge.
 


Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 02 September 2015, 18:49:00


·         Tires: Out of the OEM tire choice we use well balanced tires regarding dynamic attributes (handling, braking, rolling resistance, etc.) under different conditions. Customer vehicles may have other tires (Aftersales?) with other characteristics.
·         


What tyres are you using for your tests Webby?  ??? 

Maybe that's one for a whole new thread... "What tyres should The Bear use for his 0 - 60 tests?"  :D  ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 02 September 2015, 18:51:44


·         Tires: Out of the OEM tire choice we use well balanced tires regarding dynamic attributes (handling, braking, rolling resistance, etc.) under different conditions. Customer vehicles may have other tires (Aftersales?) with other characteristics.
·         


What tyres are you using for your tests Webby?  ??? 

Maybe that's one for a whole new thread... "What tyres should The Bear use for his 0 - 60 tests?"  :D  ;D

Don't get him started. ;D ;D

Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 02 September 2015, 19:02:08
Haha!!! bog standard ditch finders, Tig  :y

Fair enough re the weight opti..... as andy says I can takeit and get it weighed.

no tow bar. just wondering off the top of my head what ''options'' would add weight  :-\
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 02 September 2015, 19:05:10
Haha!!! bog standard ditch finders, Tig  :y

Fair enough re the weight opti..... as andy says I can takeit and get it weighed.

no tow bar. just wondering off the top of my head what ''options'' would add weight :-\

Tow bar

Sunroof.

They are listed along with their weight in the owners manual.
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: STEMO on 02 September 2015, 19:06:09
Did the CD player have a disc in?
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 02 September 2015, 19:12:23
Did the CD player have a disc in?

Now..now...Webby is doing his best. :D ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 02 September 2015, 19:15:45
I don't have an Omega owners manual because I don't own an Omega. ::)

However, according to the Signum owners manual (because I do own  a Signum) the sunroof weighs 13 KG and the 'towing equipment' 24 KG.


Interesting stuff. ::) :)

Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: T.m.f on 02 September 2015, 19:16:23
Haha!!! bog standard ditch finders, Tig  :y

Fair enough re the weight opti..... as andy says I can takeit and get it weighed.

no tow bar. just wondering off the top of my head what ''options'' would add weight  :-\
Does extra weight include the welding you had done last year ......
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 02 September 2015, 19:18:06
Haha!!! bog standard ditch finders, Tig  :y

Fair enough re the weight opti..... as andy says I can takeit and get it weighed.

no tow bar. just wondering off the top of my head what ''options'' would add weight  :-\
Does extra weight include the welding you had done last year ......

Shit......that's 300 KG Mr Bear hasn't accounted for. ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 02 September 2015, 19:20:02
Talking of shit......  Make sure you have one before the test!  ;)   That should lighten the load somewhat!!  :P  ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: T.m.f on 02 September 2015, 19:20:28
And a piss  ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: biggriffin on 02 September 2015, 20:06:06
And make sure its a good downhill road with tailwind, and a lighter driver,  I vote TMF to do the test. :y
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 02 September 2015, 20:06:52
Silly boys  ::) ;D

My car doesn't have towing equipment. It doesn't have a sun roof. It does have a/c though. so my car SHOULD weigh around the base kerb weight (no options). Though obviously I wont know that until I get it weighed. which, as ive come thisfar, I may aswell go and do  ;D ;D ;D

Are car weights and option weights ALL in the manual then? I must give it a read.  :y
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: T.m.f on 02 September 2015, 21:12:35
And make sure its a good downhill road with tailwind, and a lighter driver,  I vote TMF to do the test. :y
I cant,it doesnt have decent mud tyres and it certainly wouldnt make it round yarwell off road course and its wading depth isnt very deep,so may drown. ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 02 September 2015, 21:23:44
Ok so needing a bit of help here.

Manual says its kerb weight is 1718. This includes assumed weight for driver of 68 kilos, luggage of 7 kilos, and all fluids (inc. 90% tank full).

SO based on what Vauxhall have said am I to remove the driver weight, fuel weight and luggage weight and then add on 200 kilos and compare that to my actual weight from the weigh bridge and add and subtract weight if necessary.

Your help would be really appreciated as I'm no good at maths. Bit of a stupid bear lol
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: T.m.f on 02 September 2015, 22:44:08
Dont forget to put correct pressure in tyres aswell,as that will make it heavier or lighter than what it should be  :y
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: 05omegav6 on 03 September 2015, 03:42:18
Please read the manual ::)

It lists the base weight plus the weights for different models... GLS,CD,CDX etc and supplementally the weights of heavy options such as tow bar and sunroof :y

All facelifts have AC/Climate... so you wont see it listed ::)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 03 September 2015, 07:47:05
Thanks boys. Martin, already asked him that in my reply  :y

Taxi, I literally have the manual in front of me  and have been reading it :P ;D

I don't think I've explained my question very well. I'll rephrase. . .

We can ignore the extra weight for heavy items cos I don't have a tow bar and I don't have a sun roof and if they all have a/c then that's another variable removed so that's great.

However. In the notes it states that the kerb weight of 1718kg includes 68kg for an average sized driver, 7kg for luggage, all fluids (engine oil, auto box fluid etc) and a 90% full tank.

SO. As Vauxhall in their performance testing procedures ADD a further 200kg on to the kerb weight for driver and luggage, surely I need to subtract 68 and 7 from the original kerb weight of 1718 to arrive at the correct kerb weight prior to testing and then ensure I have 200kg on top including myself (the driver)?

 :y
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 03 September 2015, 11:18:21
Thanks boys. Martin, already asked him that in my reply  :y

Taxi, I literally have the manual in front of me  and have been reading it :P ;D

I don't think I've explained my question very well. I'll rephrase. . .

We can ignore the extra weight for heavy items cos I don't have a tow bar and I don't have a sun roof and if they all have a/c then that's another variable removed so that's great.

However. In the notes it states that the kerb weight of 1718kg includes 68kg for an average sized driver, 7kg for luggage, all fluids (engine oil, auto box fluid etc) and a 90% full tank.

SO. As Vauxhall in their performance testing procedures ADD a further 200kg on to the kerb weight for driver and luggage, surely I need to subtract 68 and 7 from the original kerb weight of 1718 to arrive at the correct kerb weight prior to testing and then ensure I have 200kg on top including myself (the driver)?

 :y

Yes.
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 03 September 2015, 18:28:46
Thanks opti. So at a guess do you reckon mine will exceed 1643 kg? That's with full tank
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: biggriffin on 03 September 2015, 19:17:20
Thanks opti. So at a guess do you reckon mine will exceed 1643 kg? That's with full tank
young Mr bear your trying to go fast, so less weight, not a full tank.
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 03 September 2015, 19:20:03
I know what you mean bg but actually I'm just trying to replicate the original test conditions
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: STEMO on 03 September 2015, 20:02:27
Replicate off, Webby  ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 03 September 2015, 20:42:27
Replicate off, Webby  ;D

I ain't going anywhere son..... Well, not until this thread gets to 90 pages I can feel confident my cars as quick as it should be.

I'm going to get the car weighed and analytically work out what the time would be based on my timed video and the test conditions that have now been confirmed  :y
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Gaffers on 04 September 2015, 13:21:16
Well, only 17 more pages until this thread makes the top 10 list in the stats ::)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Gaffers on 04 September 2015, 13:22:00
Replicate off, Webby  ;D
I'm going to get the car weighed

Before or after a curry?
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 04 September 2015, 13:27:53
Well, only 17 more pages until this thread makes the top 10 list in the stats ::)

Seth needs to get cracking with 'The Bus' thread again!  :y
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: T.m.f on 04 September 2015, 16:58:16
Are you going to be using the same official test equipment that was originally used to test 0-60?
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Gaffers on 04 September 2015, 16:58:40
Well, only 17 more pages until this thread makes the top 10 list in the stats ::)

Seth needs to get cracking with 'The Bus' thread again!  :y

break, no....please.......no.........
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: biggriffin on 04 September 2015, 18:51:09
Come the bear, 22 sleeps and still going :)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 04 September 2015, 19:11:37
Are you going to be using the same official test equipment that was originally used to test 0-60?

No I'm not as I don't have access to it. However, surely it can't be that different? I mean it's not like it's going to be seconds off. If I can get somewhere near I'll be satisfied.
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: 05omegav6 on 04 September 2015, 19:14:21
So 9.5 seconds isn't nearly accurate enough then ::)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 04 September 2015, 19:20:11
So 9.5 seconds isn't nearly accurate enough then ::)

Well, it's odd how it's come about. . .

I was happy that it was all good and then the spanner was thrown in to the works when Vauxhall confirmed their testing conditions were different to mine. So naturally, I have to investigate this.

I'll however be doing it on an analytical basis though as I really don't want to do the torque braking again. Yeah, I'm sure it,ll be ok but I can't be bothered to take the risk as I don't have the time to fit a gearbox at the moment  :y
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Rods2 on 04 September 2015, 20:06:58
Where did they do the original tests and what was the air temperature, humidity and air pressure as all of these will affect the engine performance, likewise the engine temperature, oil viscosity and the formulation and calorific value of the fuel. ???

Likewise, what was the mileage on the car? Was it a new, low mileage one and as tight a dry nun, in its prime like a 30 yo newlywed or past it's best like the local madam, slack Alice after an action packed Saturday evening? ::) ::) ::)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: 05omegav6 on 04 September 2015, 21:06:46
Curiosity is one thing, but your car has matched the book time, albeit under different conditions yet you're still not satisfied... ???

Not sure what you're hoping to achieve :-\ you cannot replicate the weather (temp/wind speed/direction/humidity) Road surface (structure/grip coefficient/moisture content) tyres (model/tread depth/temperature/pressure) mood of the driver conducting the test etc, etc

I would take the book time and be greatful...
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: henryd on 04 September 2015, 21:21:23
So 9.5 seconds isn't nearly accurate enough then ::)

Well, it's odd how it's come about. . .

I was happy that it was all good and then the spanner was thrown in to the works when Vauxhall confirmed their testing conditions were different to mine. So naturally, I have to investigate this.

I'll however be doing it on an analytical basis though as I really don't want to do the torque braking again. Yeah, I'm sure it,ll be ok but I can't be bothered to take the risk as I don't have the time to fit a gearbox at the moment  :y

If your not doing the stall start then replicating the rest is pointless,Vauxhall would have thrashed the car to its limits ::)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Rods2 on 05 September 2015, 14:58:08
I think the thread has morphed from 0-60 mph to 0-40 pages, so we just need to all amble along adding our 'valued' observations and comments to get it there.





































Of course leaving large white (blue) spaces would be against the spirit of the thread to get to 40 pages quicker, so I have only done so for 'illustration purposes'. :P :-[ ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Rods2 on 05 September 2015, 15:11:29
As it is now competing with the bus thread. What the average 0-60 mph time for a bus and also the world record?




(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ac/Arriva_T6_nearside.JPG/601px-Arriva_T6_nearside.JPG)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 05 September 2015, 16:17:35
Curiosity is one thing, but your car has matched the book time, albeit under different conditions yet you're still not satisfied... ???

Not sure what you're hoping to achieve :-\ you cannot replicate the weather (temp/wind speed/direction/humidity) Road surface (structure/grip coefficient/moisture content) tyres (model/tread depth/temperature/pressure) mood of the driver conducting the test etc, etc

I would take the book time and be greatful...

The reason for further investigation  :y
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 05 September 2015, 16:20:58
So 9.5 seconds isn't nearly accurate enough then ::)

Well, it's odd how it's come about. . .

I was happy that it was all good and then the spanner was thrown in to the works when Vauxhall confirmed their testing conditions were different to mine. So naturally, I have to investigate this.

I'll however be doing it on an analytical basis though as I really don't want to do the torque braking again. Yeah, I'm sure it,ll be ok but I can't be bothered to take the risk as I don't have the time to fit a gearbox at the moment  :y

If your not doing the stall start then replicating the rest is pointless,Vauxhall would have thrashed the car to its limits ::)

I did do the stall start as per my last video and, as you suggested prior to me doing it, it works!!!  :y

The thing I want to know (albeit looking ball park figures) is that the extra 200kg that Vauxhall chuck on in addition to standard car AND full tank is that my motor wil do there or thereabouts. cos I know that when I get a passenger in it feels slower. so just wanting to check that  :y
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: 05omegav6 on 05 September 2015, 16:27:07
But if the humidity or air temperature are different, then the results will be different... there are too many variables to be able to replicate it exactly... and as you don't know what any of these variable values were at the time of the original test, you can only guess... which surely instantly renders your result to a ball park  :-\

Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 05 September 2015, 17:06:11
As it is now competing with the bus thread. What the average 0-60 mph time for a bus and also the world record?




(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ac/Arriva_T6_nearside.JPG/601px-Arriva_T6_nearside.JPG)


Probably about the same as a certain lurid green 1.4 litre Astra. :)

I'll take a guess........56 seconds.
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: 05omegav6 on 05 September 2015, 17:52:17
Yes, but is that 56 seconds fully loaded or empty? What tyre pressures Was it damp? Was the bus black or a different colour, as we know how much of a difference that can make too... Would and empty reb bus be quicker than a full black one? Was the test driver ginger?
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 05 September 2015, 19:49:12
Yes, but is that 56 seconds fully loaded or empty? What tyre pressures Was it damp? Was the bus black or a different colour, as we know how much of a difference that can make too... Would and empty reb bus be quicker than a full black one? Was the test driver ginger?

Her pubes were certainly ginger. :)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 06 September 2015, 00:14:20
But if the humidity or air temperature are different, then the results will be different... there are too many variables to be able to replicate it exactly... and as you don't know what any of these variable values were at the time of the original test, you can only guess... which surely instantly renders your result to a ball park  :-\

Fair comment Al. but would air temp/humidity have more of an effect than, for example, an extra 200kgon board?
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: 05omegav6 on 06 September 2015, 01:01:29
Possibly, especially if you add altitude to the mix as well...

Point is, unless you drive the exact same car, on the exact same road, at the exact same time then your results will always be different...
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Broomies Mate on 06 September 2015, 03:47:57
Well, this is getting a little silly now, isn't it?

Webby - As has been explained before;

The book figures are used as a guide, I would think anywhere 10% plus or minus would be more than accurate for a car rolling off the production line.  Factor in how an engine becomes worn and tired after xxxxx miles and other smaller factors, air temperature, air pressure, rolling resistance (road surface, tyre compound etc).... and you should be looking at more like 15-20% difference.

If you want to compare your car to a same-spec, same weight vehicle, organise a meet at Santa Pod (or other drag strip) and invite others to put their car's against yours!




Thinking about it, how does your car match up with the book 'guide' for MPG?  ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: biggriffin on 06 September 2015, 13:28:01
Page 23 and there's more ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 06 September 2015, 14:15:48
I totally get where youre coming from. I'm just curious that's all (easy STEMO)  :y

Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Rods2 on 06 September 2015, 15:37:12
As this is marketing talk, I'm sure some manufacturers are going to be much more 'optimistic' than others. A bit like quoted fuel consumption figures and real world ones as these are also important for marketing speak and sales, where we know they are an accurate reflection on what Joe Bloggs can expect to achieve, not! :o :o :o :o

Even if something is specified like the EU fuel consumption tests, they are always open to 'interpretation' on what is a 'production' specification and 'normal' driving! ::) ::) ::) :-X :-X :-X

A few years a go where 600 and 1000cc Supersport bike markets are very competitive, not only with performance but also being the lightest in class. Kerb weight varied considerably from quoted to actual and when the bike manufacturers were called out over this, some admitted it didn't include batteries, fuel, oil, brake fluid etc., etc!!! :o :o :o :o
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 07 September 2015, 11:07:47
Rods that's exactly my point for wanting to weigh the car. If mine is considerably heavier that would make sense  :y

But I won't keep boring and annoying folk. I'll get the car weighed and then I'll mathematically work out where the car would be.
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: biggriffin on 07 September 2015, 15:07:42
Come on young bear don't give up. :)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 07 September 2015, 15:14:14
Rods that's exactly my point for wanting to weigh the car. If mine is considerably heavier that would make sense  :y

But I won't keep boring and annoying folk. I'll get the car weighed and then I'll mathematically work out where the car would be.

Good idea. I'm guessing 1595 KG with half  a tank of fuel but minus a 'portly' driver. :)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: STEMO on 07 September 2015, 15:56:14
Would the fuel used make a difference? ie super unleaded v standard.  ::)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: T.m.f on 07 September 2015, 16:21:36
Also coil pack,ht leads,spark plugs will be different aswell,as you havnt got original 1s fitted from new,also tyres are going to affect your 0-60
To be honest your not going to gain anything buy weighing the car,as you will never get the exact conditions,fuel,tyres,driver and driving style , 9.5 is acceptable for size of car engine size and auto,the omega was never a sports car,it was originally for directors ,managers etc to do there job ,if it was meant to be for speed they would have put a proper v8 supercharged engine in it,
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: EMD on 07 September 2015, 17:35:27
Plus the pattern parts are much heavier And it wont ever be as fast as a black one  ::)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 07 September 2015, 20:16:22
out of interest has anyone ever weighed their omega?
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: STEMO on 07 September 2015, 20:18:32
out of interest has anyone ever weighed their omega?
Plenty have had them weighed. Then the scrapman has paid them.  ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 07 September 2015, 20:20:06
out of interest has anyone ever weighed their omega?
Plenty have had them weighed. Then the scrapman has paid them.  ;D

 ;D ;D ;D

Wonder if anyone knows though?
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 07 September 2015, 20:22:20
out of interest has anyone ever weighed their omega?
Plenty have had them weighed. Then the scrapman has paid them.  ;D

I shouldn't laugh but that is witty...... ;D ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Rods2 on 07 September 2015, 23:01:25
out of interest has anyone ever weighed their omega?
Plenty have had them weighed. Then the scrapman has paid them.  ;D

 ;D ;D ;D

But when it gets to that time in life, an Omega is much more valuable than an Astra. :P
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 08 September 2015, 21:31:55
on a serious note, if I find out Vaux used a higher octane fuel when testing, could this be worth a couple of tenths or more on a 0-60? out of interest :)

I usually use the bog standard morrisons stuff but once filled up with super unleaded. I FELT it was a bit faster but that could be placebo. does the omega, out of interest, have the ability to ''react'' to a higher octane fuel and thus actually be able to take advantage of it?
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 08 September 2015, 21:43:03
on a serious note, if I find out Vaux used a higher octane fuel when testing, could this be worth a couple of tenths or more on a 0-60? out of interest :)

I usually use the bog standard morrisons stuff but once filled up with super unleaded. I FELT it was a bit faster but that could be placebo. does the omega, out of interest, have the ability to ''react'' to a higher octane fuel and thus actually be able to take advantage of it?

ooooooooh just Please read the manual......

''Knock control sys tem automatically adjusts ignition timing according to type of fuel used (octane number)''.

So perhaps not placebo at all  :-\

though still wonder if it would be worth any real time on a 0-60 dash?
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: aaronjb on 09 September 2015, 14:13:16
Depends if the factory ignition map is tuned for 99 or 97 - given the age and the fact that (IIRC) 99 is a relatively new invention in unleaded, likely 97.  The knock sensor is partly there because (again, IIRC) all European cars have to be able to run (rather than grenade) on anything down to 85 (which I doubt you'd see this side of Eastern Europe).
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: BazaJT on 09 September 2015, 18:56:28
Crikey this thread seems to have taken on a life of its own :D Seriously though Mr.Bear I applaud your zeal and determination on this.Once you have established all this to your satisfaction will you then start a second thread to see how close you can get to in gear acceleration times?Ultimately you would then have to start a third thread on how close your car is to quoted top speed[on a private test track obviously] ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 11 September 2015, 18:36:46
Guys not bumping this thread but I'm going to get the car weighed on Monday but in the mean time I feel another compression test is in order to see if I have a slight drop (perhaos due to rings) just to ensure theres not a problem there and I haven't got anything better to do :)

one quick question....should the engine be hot or cold for compression testing?

 :y
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Kevin Wood on 12 September 2015, 11:42:59
First time I read that I thought you were going to get it weighed-in. ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: T.m.f on 12 September 2015, 13:13:16
He is on once the engine gives up on the 0-60 tests  ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 12 September 2015, 13:14:54
He might not be able to resist the cash on offer!  :-\  ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Broomies Mate on 12 September 2015, 14:14:42
Engine at running temperature for the compression test Webster.  :y
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 12 September 2015, 16:10:01
Engine at running temperature for the compression test Webster.  :y

lol thanks broomie for the only sensible reply!  ::) ;D

presumably if I was to do it from cold it may give a lower reading??? thinking heat expansion closing rings up, valves expanding etc.?

Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: henryd on 12 September 2015, 16:57:29
Engine at running temperature for the compression test Webster.  :y

lol thanks broomie for the only sensible reply!  ::) ;D

presumably if I was to do it from cold it may give a lower reading??? thinking heat expansion closing rings up, valves expanding etc.?

Not neccesarily.cold engine has thicker oil which could improve piston ring sealing :y
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 12 September 2015, 17:32:49
Engine at running temperature for the compression test Webster.  :y

lol thanks broomie for the only sensible reply!  ::) ;D

presumably if I was to do it from cold it may give a lower reading??? thinking heat expansion closing rings up, valves expanding etc.?

Not neccesarily.cold engine has thicker oil which could improve piston ring sealing :y

Good point mate  :y
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: biggriffin on 12 September 2015, 17:44:23
Page 25, and still going :y
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 12 September 2015, 17:55:59
Page 25, and still going :y

I know!  ;D :y

one other thing id mention....

the vauxhal chap said that the track for testing would be perfectly level and using ''high grip tarmac''. would this tarmac have a real impact on times?
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: biggriffin on 12 September 2015, 18:03:16
Page 25, and still going :y

I know!  ;D :y

one other thing id mention....

the vauxhal chap said that the track for testing would be perfectly level and using ''high grip tarmac''. would this tarmac have a real impact on times?
They were tested at Millbrook. High grip tarmac means skid resistance coating.
25 and counting.
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 12 September 2015, 18:04:30
Shit! Where are you going to find some 'high grip tarmac' for your test?  ::)  :D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: biggriffin on 12 September 2015, 18:14:30
Shit! Where are you going to find some 'high grip tarmac' for your test?  ::)  :D
Its used on approach's to roundabouts and zebra crossing,
 so the bear be doing 0-60 starts on the crossing. :)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Andy H on 12 September 2015, 21:41:19
Guys not bumping this thread but I'm going to get the car weighed on Monday but in the mean time I feel another compression test is in order to see if I have a slight drop (perhaos due to rings) just to ensure theres not a problem there and I haven't got anything better to do :)

one quick question....should the engine be hot or cold for compression testing?

 :y
You need to be able to work comfortably on the engine so compression tests are usually done with a cold engine. The final readings are very dependent on cranking speed (which is itself dependent on battery state and oil viscosity) therefore it is very difficult to predict what pressures you will get - variation between cylinders is more significant than the actual numbers.
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Rods2 on 13 September 2015, 03:07:49
A hot engine will also heat the intake air making it less dense, which reduces power. I'm sure there must be available charts for this along with engine oil viscosity and ring sealing. Please put these up on the website, so we can all inspect and take the p comment accordingly! :P :P :P

Engineering is all about compromise as a god squad lecturer used to tell me, the lord giveth, which we engineers take advantage of, but then with further order effects the lord taketh away. Nothing is free in life!!! ::) :o :o :o

Control theory is a classic for this and multiple partial differential equations and their standard solutions to model this are just wonderful, or so I had to do at collage and hated I've heard. :o :o :o :o :o
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 13 September 2015, 21:37:31
Some say with engine warmed up. Some say from cold. That leaves me no choice but to do both and see if the results vary  :y

Re the Tarmac. I was merely wondering if this would make up a big percentage of time.  . . Ie half a second or so?
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Diamond Black Geezer on 14 September 2015, 10:56:03
I forget the percentages, but I did read somewhere that the road surface accounts for a far larger percentage of your total grip than the choice of tyre does. Of course this isnt the same me saying  'I recommend you just fit cheap ditchfinder tyres, then' - the better tyres still increases grip of course, but compare your grip levels on Pingpong XL crossplys on hot, dry tarmac, vs Goodyear Eagles on wet, oily uneven roads as you'll take my point.

Anyway, point being, that yes, the road surface affect grip in a large way. However that's surely in cornering, however, in a straight line I'm not so sure what affect that will have... negligable, or less? Unless you're actually wheelspinning when you set of, and a grippier surface would let the wheels literally grip quicker, as I say, not sure that the road surface isn't only a tiny amount.


Also I'm well aware that I have used the 'I did read somewhere' line, so please take my opinion with the same pinch of salt that you would with the bloke in the pub who has a mate who knows a guy that definitely knows about cars   :D :y ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 14 September 2015, 13:53:16
couldn't agree more DBG..... as you say, if you are not cornering then im not sure it'll be an issue  :y

however.....ive been to the weighbridge this morning....some interesting finds (once ive done the maths  ::) ;D)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 14 September 2015, 14:49:18
Ok, as mentioned above I have today been to the weighbridge.

Below are my calculations based on my test in comparison with Vauxhall....apologies if boring  ;)

Original Vauxhall Test:

Kerb weight when Vauxhall tested was 1643kg. This included a full tank. No driver. No luggage. (Your handbook will say 1718kg but if you read the little note at the bottom that included 7kg luggage and a 68kg driver).

To this they add 200kg to allow for an average configuration and includes the driver.

Total - 1843kg.

With this they get a 0-60 time of 9.2 seconds.

Me and my Omega:

I got the car weighed in exactly the conditions as I did the test in...virtually no petrol and with my full size spare in the boot and not including me....car weighed 1647kg. Add to this my 'ample' frame and the weight jumps to over 3000kg. haha just kidding ;) with my weight it goes to 1761kg.

With this set up I got a 0-60 time of 9.44 seconds.

Conclusion...

The weight difference between the two test weights (mine and theirs) is 82kg. I work out using 0-60 calculators online that 82kg is worth 0.322 seconds.

Therefore I can conclude that the times for comparison are...

Vauxhall - 9.2 seconds
My Omega - 9.76 seconds

A difference of just over half a second slower compared to Vauxhall's original figures.

I've learned lots on this thread and I think I'm happy that the half a second could be made up.

Advantages they had was using the test equipment they had available, the dead flat ''grippy'' straight they used at their Dudenhofen facility in the Fatherland (I looked at my place of testing en route to the weighbridge and im starting to convince myself its a slight incline!) and getting really nerdy, look at humidity/airtemp etc.

I think one massive key thing (as the guy from Vauxhall also said) that I would need to perfect that launch especially as that was only my 2nd attempt and I'm sure I could have got a bit more out of it.

As mentioned before I'm not going to do any more tests. Although i'd have dearly loved to have matched the original results I'm quite happy with the results I did get and in the knowledge that I could probably bring that time down if I was to do all the things above. but I'm not going to be doing anymore brake torque starts lol

Getting well under 10 seconds. That in itself I thought was a challenge.

So I can put this to bed now. Cheers for all the comments along the way. good and bad lol

Now. to STEMO's all season tyres..... :y
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Diamond Black Geezer on 14 September 2015, 15:20:49
Personally haven't found this thread laborious (that's saying a lot given its length!  :y) and have found it very interesting. Very pleased you've essentially got the answers you were looking for. Keep up the good work, and this should prove helpful for many Omega owners in the future.

For what it's worth, I think you've done terrific to get the time you did, and it's a bit of a testament to the engineers to have made an engine still able to produce that power and torque after so many thousand miles. with that tiny difference in time what do we say? 1/4 second down to maybe 5 bhp lost by the engine, and another 1/4 lost by sheer luck/how you set off. Maybe after ten runs you'd shave that elusive few tenths of a second off, but maybe at the expense of a torque converter, and the removal of ten, or twenty thousand miles off the lifespan of the engine.

I'd pat you on the back were it not so sweaty from all the graft you've put in on this!  :)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 14 September 2015, 15:29:21
 ;D thanks very much DBG  :y I think I got some results that were as close to scientific as I could get given my joe blogs budget and the the tools at my disposal.

obviously the man from Vauxhall also said what you refer to.... in that ''don't forget as well as having pro drivers and all the test equipment available we were also using a box fresh car!''

I know mines not down on compression but I wonder if a basic valve job would have an effect.....not that I can be bothered.... perhaps if I ever change the HGs again in't future ::) :y
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Diamond Black Geezer on 14 September 2015, 15:38:34
You're welcome, and indeed there's plenty of variables which you shouldn't worry about.

Perhaps this was already mentioned, but what rpm did you lift the brake pedal in the end, to achieve your final result?  :)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 14 September 2015, 15:42:38
Good question. in truth I don't know the exact rpm as I was concerned with not hitting traffic  ;D. but it was around the 2500rpm mark...not sure it woulda gone up anymore?

when I did the launch I don't think I went straight from brake to flooring it.....I think I went to near flooring it followed by foot flat cos I was worried about wheel spin....again some tenths to be made up there in my reckoning.  :y
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: biggriffin on 14 September 2015, 22:21:40
Page 26  :o
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: mka306 on 15 September 2015, 07:51:01
Page 26  :o

Must admit I'm not surprised it's carried on this long. Top thread imo as I've enjoyed all the tests and facts or fictiuon, very enjoyable readinghttp://images.omegaowners.com/forum/smf2000/Smileys/oofstd/thumbsup.gif
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 15 September 2015, 11:55:44
Mr Bear, you have thoroughly researched the weight of your Omega. Top marks. You now have a definitive figure for your research. :y

However, you still seem to be blind to 'the elephant in the room'......the timing gear.

I would say  the egg timer/sundial which  you use to calculate time speed and distance, could easily be up to one and a half seconds inaccurate.

Your 9.7 second timing could be anything from 8.2 to 11.2 seconds.

Your Omega may therefore be  either 'super fast'  or  'shit slow'....... ;) :D ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 15 September 2015, 18:31:48
Thanks for the support guys.

Thanks opti. Though I don't see how.  :P ;D

During this thread I was told to time from the moment my foot left the brake (that moment was marked by me saying the word 'go' in the video). Timed right up to 63 on the clock (as it was suggested that my speedo would be out...and it was by 2-3mph). While I acknowledge that I could be up to a few tenths out I'd disagree that it would be 1.5 secs out. If anything I'd suggest I've gone conservative with the timing...starting the split second BEFORE I lift off the brake so there's no qualms.

I don't really know what more I could do without sophisticated gps timing (as vx used)?
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 15 September 2015, 18:51:52
Thanks for the support guys.

Thanks opti. Though I don't see how.  :P ;D

During this thread I was told to time from the moment my foot left the brake (that moment was marked by me saying the word 'go' in the video). Timed right up to 63 on the clock (as it was suggested that my speedo would be out...and it was by 2-3mph). While I acknowledge that I could be up to a few tenths out I'd disagree that it would be 1.5 secs out. If anything I'd suggest I've gone conservative with the timing...starting the split second BEFORE I lift off the brake so there's no qualms.

I don't really know what more I could do without sophisticated gps timing (as vx used)?

Buy it with you credit card.......use it......then ask for refund suggesting it is not suitable. ;)

Racelogic Vbox sport will give  you the answers. :y




Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 15 September 2015, 19:07:33
I thought back on this thread (sorry, can't find it through looking) someone said they were shit and inaccurate? Sorry if I've got that wrong
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 15 September 2015, 20:58:49
Holy smokes. . . . Would defo have to return it. . . £298  :o

So do these work or inaccurate therefore pointless?
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 15 September 2015, 22:39:20
Holy smokes. . . . Would defo have to return it. . . £298  :o

So do these work or inaccurate therefore pointless?

Yes...and extremely accurate to well within 0.1 sec and 0.1 MPH.

I think it's also accurate to 50cm  over a distance of 1000 metres.

Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Diamond Black Geezer on 16 September 2015, 10:07:59
Out of interest to the Bear, I timed mine (2.5 V6 PFL) on the car's on board stopwatch and got 10.5secs. That's without any 'launching' techniques, in sport mode of course, with a possible slight downward slope. So I'd make a slightly uneducated guess that if I built up the revs, holding the brake, and on flat ground, with a proper timer that the sub-ten secs barrier would be broken.

That's 179,000 engine needing an oil change, with no engine mods, even the EGR isnt blanked off yet. Of course the times could be wildly off, using the car's stopwatch, but I offer purely as a comparison to show the 'ballpark' that shows Webby is clearly in the right area.
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 16 September 2015, 18:00:49
Thanks DBG  :y I think theyre both in the same ballpark!

So Opti...

Presumably these things start automatically when you do thus no need to mess around. As they just look like a box I take it you have to link them to a computer / gaypad?

Do you have one yourself?

Being a resourceful bear I have found a device called an ''AP22''. Its an ''accelerometer'' whatever that means. would that be just as accurate as I canget a cheap one on the bay of E :)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: STEMO on 16 September 2015, 18:15:59
You know what, Webby, I wish you would officially put this dangle berries to bed.  :-X
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 16 September 2015, 18:19:00
You know what, Webby, I wish you would officially put this dangle berries to bed.  :-X

Blame Opti...... he keeps telling me stuff I missed  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: STEMO on 16 September 2015, 18:23:30
You know what, Webby, I wish you would officially put this dangle berries to bed.  :-X

Blame Opti...... he keeps telling me stuff I missed  ;D ;D ;D
Ah....Opti......
You know the lad at school that said stuff like "I wonder how far you could bend your ruler before it snaps....... ::)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 16 September 2015, 18:24:05
You know what, Webby, I wish you would officially put this dangle berries to bed.  :-X

Blame Opti...... he keeps telling me stuff I missed  ;D ;D ;D
Ah....Opti......
You know the lad at school that said stuff like "I wonder how far you could bend your ruler before it snaps....... ::)

 ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Rods2 on 16 September 2015, 19:02:33
You know what, Webby, I wish you would officially put this dangle berries to bed.  :-X

Blame Opti...... he keeps telling me stuff I missed  ;D ;D ;D
Ah....Opti......
You know the lad at school that said stuff like "I wonder how far you could bend your ruler before it snaps....... ::)

Please do tell us how much weight you added and how many degrees of bend in the science lab rig it managed before you reached the ruler material yield point? Was it repeatable and how did it compare with the manufacturers figures. ::) ::) ::) :P :P :P ;D ;D ;D

Oh, and did you use an official Vauxhall ruler tester? ::) ::) ::)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 16 September 2015, 19:06:34
 ::) ::) ::) ::) ;D

So.

As Opti has forced me to redo my tests  ::) ;D how do I get my grubby bear paws on one of these performance testers? sadly I don't even have enough to buy one so I can then return it as going on holiday next week.

can I rent one? or is there a lovely member that will rent it to me?
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: STEMO on 16 September 2015, 19:07:47
FFS.......beam me up Scottie... ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Rods2 on 16 September 2015, 19:26:21
FFS.......beam me up Scottie... ;D

How long will that take? :P :P :P
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 16 September 2015, 19:35:10
You know what, Webby, I wish you would officially put this dangle berries to bed.  :-X

Blame Opti...... he keeps telling me stuff I missed  ;D ;D ;D
Ah....Opti......
You know the lad at school that said stuff like "I wonder how far you could bend over......." ::)

Fixed.  ;)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 16 September 2015, 19:41:09
 ;D ;D ;D ;D

Anyhoooooo  ::)

it seems that this will not rest until I use one of these things and take it to Santapod....thought I could get away with it. but clearly not  ::)

do we know if Vaux would have used super unleaded or standard ron95? weirdly the chap from vxhasnt replied  ::) ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: STEMO on 16 September 2015, 19:41:23
You know what, Webby, I wish you would officially put this dangle berries to bed.  :-X

Blame Opti...... he keeps telling me stuff I missed  ;D ;D ;D
Ah....Opti......
You know the lad at school that said stuff like "I wonder how far you could bend over......." ::)

Fixed.  ;)
Nah.....he's a different fella altogether. ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: STEMO on 16 September 2015, 19:42:21
;D ;D ;D ;D

Anyhoooooo  ::)

it seems that this will not rest until I use one of these things and take it to Santapod....thought I could get away with it. but clearly not  ::)

do we know if Vaux would have used super unleaded or standard ron95? weirdly the chap from vxhasnt replied  ::) ;D
No. He's probably hung himself.
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: EMD on 16 September 2015, 19:46:55
FFS.......beam me up Scottie... ;D

How long will that take? :P :P :P

 ;D ;D :D

Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 16 September 2015, 19:47:32
;D ;D ;D ;D

Anyhoooooo  ::)

it seems that this will not rest until I use one of these things and take it to Santapod....thought I could get away with it. but clearly not  ::)

do we know if Vaux would have used super unleaded or standard ron95? weirdly the chap from vxhasnt replied  ::) ;D
No. He's probably hung himself.

I only wrote him 40 e mails. don't see the problem  :-\ :-\ :( ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: BazaJT on 16 September 2015, 20:41:34
27 pages and counting :D When does the film of the book come out? ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: 05omegav6 on 16 September 2015, 20:55:12
Well it certainly has all the ingredients...

Drama, The suspense is crippling.
A car chase  albeit only 9.5 seconds.
Some love interest. Webby stalking random folk, and Stemo/Opti reminiscing about boarding school bondage.

I think Woody Allen should direct it as can pad it out a bit with random dream sequences... like the time Webby swore blind that his car could do 0-60 in 9.4 seconds with a full tank of gas and a KFC bargain bucket... :D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: dbug on 17 September 2015, 01:32:29
Well what a thread ::)

This has intrigued me so out of interest we checked mine earlier - 0-63 4.5 secs  Not too bothered if its +/- 0.2 sec - still effing quick.

Oh thats not the Omega by the way ;)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Kevin Wood on 17 September 2015, 09:34:46
Oh thats not the Omega by the way ;)

Thanks for the clarification.  ;D

I must dust off my AP22 data logger some time. I feel an Omega, Vs. MX5 Vs. Westfield shoot-out coming on. :D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 17 September 2015, 10:47:05
Oh thats not the Omega by the way ;)

Thanks for the clarification.  ;D

I must dust off my AP22 data logger some time. I feel an Omega, Vs. MX5 Vs. Westfield shoot-out coming on. :D

Ah, Kevin...accelerometers. Now there is a blast from the past.  I believe that Noah used an AP22 to time the zero to sixty acceleration of the newly built ark. ::) ::) ;)

 
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Kevin Wood on 17 September 2015, 12:39:48
Ah, Kevin...accelerometers. Now there is a blast from the past.  I believe that Noah used an AP22 to time the zero to sixty acceleration of the newly built ark. ::) ::) ;)

I doubt it, that batteries only last a couple of years. ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Diamond Black Geezer on 17 September 2015, 13:05:10
Not if you use 'Jesus Batteries' they go dead, but then around Easter time they suddenly resurrect themselves  :y
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 17 September 2015, 18:00:23
Hold the funk on.....

Kev, you have a AP22? Do you fancy renting it to me? If not I understand as I'm sure its an expensive item just looking online  :o

But would help me shut opti up get a final correct timing!  :)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 17 September 2015, 18:05:20
ps,

when I blew my engine up  :-[ I had the old valves out, ignoring their bentness  :-[ there was a bit of crud where the stem meets the face of the valve.

though we think that modern engines don't get coked up (agreed) I spoke to a chap at cylinder head services (yes im bugging people face to face too  ::) ;D) and he reckons that a polish of the valves would prob get me my performance back (assuming im roughly half a second off). it is an expensive thing to do but does anyone agree that this would work? especially as the car is running sweet and no problems at all.
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: STEMO on 17 September 2015, 18:07:54
You're going to take your car to bits to try and get 0.5s?

I'm getting a bit worried about you, Webby  ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: EMD on 17 September 2015, 18:41:50
Leave it alone  ::) If it aint broken and all  :-X
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: biggriffin on 17 September 2015, 19:00:15
Leave it alone  ::) If it aint broken yet it soon will be  :D

Fixed that :)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 17 September 2015, 20:56:35

As Opti has forced me to redo my tests  ::) ;D how do I get my grubby bear paws on one of these performance testers? sadly I don't even have enough to buy one so I can then return it as going on holiday next week.

can I rent one? or is there a lovely member that will rent it to me?

Here you go Webby... an app!  :y

http://www.dynolicious.com/about/
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: EMD on 18 September 2015, 13:27:41

As Opti has forced me to redo my tests  ::) ;D how do I get my grubby bear paws on one of these performance testers? sadly I don't even have enough to buy one so I can then return it as going on holiday next week.

can I rent one? or is there a lovely member that will rent it to me?

Here you go Webby... an app!  :y

http://www.dynolicious.com/about/

Dont forget to slide the oil pan underneath the rolling road for the spare metal bits afterwards  :D ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Rods2 on 18 September 2015, 17:29:57
Because of the instant high torque available, Porche and other performance car manufacturers are going the hybrid route. If you want a bit more get up and go electro assist your front wheels. :y :y :y
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: 05omegav6 on 18 September 2015, 18:38:36
Because of the instant high torque available, Porche and other performance car manufacturers are going the hybrid route. If you want a bit more get up and go electro assist your front wheels. :y :y :y
12v through the hubs should do it... :D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: biggriffin on 18 September 2015, 18:56:45
Because of the instant high torque available, Porche and other performance car manufacturers are going the hybrid route. If you want a bit more get up and go electro assist your front wheels. :y :y :y
12v through the hubs should do it... :D
Couple of fat buggy motors would help.  ;)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: BazaJT on 18 September 2015, 19:32:51
Wait a minute!29 pages and we've all missed the obvious!!All he has to do is paint his car black ;Dand there you go he'd be into sub 9 sec territory :D job jobbed :y
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Rods2 on 18 September 2015, 19:39:37
Wait a minute!29 pages and we've all missed the obvious!!All he has to do is paint his car black ;Dand there you go he'd be into sub 9 sec territory :D job jobbed :y

Good discussion point on which is faster: Gloss black, matt black, metallic black, pearlescent black? Obviously, preparation for the respray is crucial, along with the number of coats as heavier means slower. :-[

What do the other contributors think is the best way to make the fastest black one?
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: BazaJT on 18 September 2015, 19:45:39
Damn didn't think of the various types of black ;D Would think matt would be slowest as glossy/polished surely slips through the air better? :-\
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: biggriffin on 18 September 2015, 20:05:45
Then there's, how many coats, that would add more weight,
Car will need a full acid dip, then a light coat, a few microns thick, got to keep the weight down. :)

Arr but then there faster white n Battenberg, what is a bear to do. ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: T.m.f on 18 September 2015, 20:41:07
You forgot the blue flashing lights and sirens  ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: EMD on 18 September 2015, 22:34:18
Replace bonnet/boot and wings to fibreglass ones  :)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: T.m.f on 18 September 2015, 22:35:34
Isnt rust lighter than fibreglass tho  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: EMD on 18 September 2015, 22:40:34
Webby has had new steel welded in rear arches ect so thats more weight  :(
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 19 September 2015, 20:16:45
Lol some comics hiding in the OOF closets  ::) ;D

Ok, so thanks to sir tigger for the app. That is certainly a more reasonable price (£9.99) for being able to test. But I wonder how accurate it is. But worth a try for a tenner.

Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: TheBoy on 19 September 2015, 20:18:21
Given the thread title, we're never gong to put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest, are we...
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 19 September 2015, 20:23:56
Given the thread title, we're never gong to put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest, are we...

Yes, one day we will. I'm a determined little b.....d ;D

What do we think of the cylinder head polish, valves, combustion chamber?back to original spec, with exhaust manifold de-coke also?
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: STEMO on 19 September 2015, 21:18:51
Lol some comics hiding in the OOF closets  ::) ;D

Ok, so thanks to sir tigger for the app. That is certainly a more reasonable price (£9.99) for being able to test. But I wonder how accurate it is. But worth a try for a tenner.
If you get 9.2, you'll say it's accurate, if you get 9.8, you'll say it lies.
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 19 September 2015, 21:25:01
Lol some comics hiding in the OOF closets  ::) ;D

Ok, so thanks to sir tigger for the app. That is certainly a more reasonable price (£9.99) for being able to test. But I wonder how accurate it is. But worth a try for a tenner.
If you get 9.2, you'll say it's accurate, if you get 9.8, you'll say it lies.

Lol absolute 'dangle berries'  ;D

If I was happy to settle for anything less than the truth this thread would have been over 27 pages ago!  :P ::) ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 20 September 2015, 13:11:13
Right, I think I've been using some incorrect terms.

So.

As discussed previously there is no massive carbon build upin modern engines. That's fine.

But would a thin layer of crud build up in the ports cause a loss of bhp?

im thinking that having cylinder heads CHEMICALLY CLEANED.....would that gain me some horses. this would put valves, inlet ports and exhaust ports back to original spec.

again, not wanting to improve from factory (yet) so polishing and porting not needed at this stage. just want to get the heads back to original spec. will this chemical clean gain me horses?

:)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 20 September 2015, 13:11:49
*edit

will this get me horses BACK?

 :y
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Shackeng on 20 September 2015, 17:01:52
Unless they are literally coked, but just have a thin coating of carbon in those rough areas where the OE machining has left roughness, I suspect it will not gain anything worth having. Polishing and porting may well do however. :y
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: 05omegav6 on 20 September 2015, 17:14:50
Easiest way to find out what a factory fresh Omega is capable of is to fit a brand new engine and box to your car and try again :y
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Rods2 on 20 September 2015, 18:23:56
Lol some comics hiding in the OOF closets  ::) ;D

Ok, so thanks to sir tigger for the app. That is certainly a more reasonable price (£9.99) for being able to test. But I wonder how accurate it is. But worth a try for a tenner.
If you get 9.2, you'll say it's accurate, if you get 9.8, you'll say it lies.

If it was 14.8secs, you'll say it's like a 1.4 Astra. ::) :P :o ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Kevin Wood on 20 September 2015, 18:25:30
Lol some comics hiding in the OOF closets  ::) ;D

Ok, so thanks to sir tigger for the app. That is certainly a more reasonable price (£9.99) for being able to test. But I wonder how accurate it is. But worth a try for a tenner.
If you get 9.2, you'll say it's accurate, if you get 9.8, you'll say it lies.

If it was 14.8secs, you'll say it's like a 1.4 Astra laugh. ::) :P :o ;D

Fixed. ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 20 September 2015, 18:26:12
Unless they are literally coked, but just have a thin coating of carbon in those rough areas where the OE machining has left roughness, I suspect it will not gain anything worth having. Polishing and porting may well do however. :y

Thanks Shackeng. our garage works closely with a cylinder head shop so ill report my findings.

taxi... you may be right. how much is a brand new 3l engine  :-X
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: 05omegav6 on 20 September 2015, 19:46:59
Last time I enquired, less than four VAG diesel injectors :D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 20 September 2015, 20:02:10
lol that'll be about 2 million English dollars then  ::) ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 21 September 2015, 18:14:08
Ok, so just heard back from the chap at the cylinder head shop. He's basically confirmed pretty much what you guys said....the carbon build up wont affect the performance that I MAY be missing and a acid dip wont be required. That's great.

However, one interesting thing he;s said....

to try a cylinder leak down as well.

this poses the question....

Can you have great compression but have some cylinder leakage through either the valves, hg or rings?

wehave a kit at work so though it would be a ball ache getting each piston to TDC and having to get to thatawkward pot 6 I will do it if needed.

Would really love to hear your thoughts?
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Rods2 on 21 September 2015, 19:28:05
Talking of optimising the engine, blueprinting it will help, although probable not as much as it used to due to better machining tolerances on modern engines.

Such were production tolerances in the 1960's Ford used to measure and fit the 'right sized' piston for each bore. :o :o :o :o
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Jimbob on 22 September 2015, 07:57:32
I suppose youre only really looking at half the story here.

How close can you get to the described top speed?

/me runs as that should be good for another 30 pages
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: 05omegav6 on 22 September 2015, 08:04:56
Should be good for 130... but being a 2.5 it will probably take all 30 pages to get there... ::)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Migv6 le Frog Fan on 22 September 2015, 11:09:01
Just when we hoped the end was nigh....... ::)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Gaffers on 22 September 2015, 15:05:59
After all the stuff coming out about VAG and their emmissions malarkey in North America I am not sure I would trust any figures given by any retailer on performance, emmisions or otherwise.

I also think that the revelations thus far might just be tip of the iceburg ::)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Diamond Black Geezer on 22 September 2015, 16:03:02
Agreed  :y

I've said as much in another thread, but from VAG's perspective I can imagine the response (be it on or off the record) being along the lines of - "well what did you expect us to do? Emissions sell! You idiots all want a 300bhp car that does 96mpg and chucks out 49 g/km, how the hell do you expect us to do that? We're up against a wall, here, every year we get more and more targets to meet. Of course we were lying! You don't like lying - don't report us, report every Lawyer on Earth, or the anti-age cream people!"

or words to that effect.


in a German accent  :D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: TheBoy on 22 September 2015, 18:11:27
I suppose youre only really looking at half the story here.

How close can you get to the described top speed?

/me runs as that should be good for another 30 pages
On the clocks, within 4mph, might have done it if my private road was longer.
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 22 September 2015, 21:02:34
Finding a flat, empty stretch of private test track is a struggle round here, but I found a bit today and thought I'd give the old girl a work out!  ;)

12.2 seconds!  :o  :(  I did fumble a bit with the stopwatch on the stalk though and was still on LPG.  ::) 

Next time I'll try it on petrol!   :D  :y
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: biggriffin on 23 September 2015, 04:58:59
Pg 31.  :o
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Rods2 on 23 September 2015, 19:29:03
After all the stuff coming out about VAG and their emmissions malarkey in North America I am not sure I would trust any figures given by any retailer on performance, emmisions or otherwise.

I also think that the revelations thus far might just be tip of the iceburg ::)

I shocked Matt, as I thought everybody comfortably exceeded modern EU official MPG figures in everyday driving conditions. ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: EMD on 23 September 2015, 19:31:08
Pg 31.  :o

Is this thread overloading disc space  ::) ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: TheBoy on 23 September 2015, 19:32:08
Pg 31.  :o

Is this thread overloading disc space  ::) ;D
Who cares? When it breaks, it breaks :P
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: EMD on 23 September 2015, 19:37:10
Pg 31.  :o

Is this thread overloading disc space  ::) ;D
Who cares? When it breaks, it breaks :P

No funny smells coming outa cabinet yet then  ::)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: BazaJT on 23 September 2015, 19:40:23
Today OOF......Tomorrow the WORLD :D ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Gaffers on 23 September 2015, 19:42:39
Pg 31.  :o

Is this thread overloading disc space  ::) ;D
Who cares? When it breaks, it breaks :P

No funny smells coming outa cabinet yet then  ::)

Unless that's an euphamism, Iam not sure if you understand where Jammie's smells come from :-X
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: TheBoy on 23 September 2015, 20:11:41
I'm sure the monitoring will tell me when its about to run out of disk space. Like it didn't last time :P
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 24 September 2015, 16:41:43
Lol if I wasn't on holiday I'd start a new thread all about the 'auto parts store' I visited today  :o ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 24 September 2015, 16:42:28
And what are the thoughts about potential cylinder leakage even though compression good?
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Andy H on 24 September 2015, 19:59:10
Racing engines used to have looser clearances and only 2 (rather than 3) piston rings - they were not worried about piston blow by or high oil consumption. A loose engine should have lower friction losses and make more power than a tight un. :y
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: tidla on 24 September 2015, 22:40:13
Just get on with it. its only down the road.

http://www.santapod.co.uk/calendar.php
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: tidla on 24 September 2015, 23:46:14
found this old thread.

Page 8 is interesting.

http://www.mbclub.co.uk/forums/general-discussion/62574-speed-figures-surprised-if-true-answer-known.html
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: biggriffin on 25 September 2015, 12:59:24
Blimey go to bed, and its grown another page, this thread keeps multiplying. "its going to take over the world" ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: BazaJT on 25 September 2015, 19:12:48
I see what he's doing.Webby's not chasing a 0-62 time at all!He's chasing the page total of "So what have you done" ;D ;D :D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Rods2 on 25 September 2015, 20:38:13
found this old thread.

Page 8 is interesting.

http://www.mbclub.co.uk/forums/general-discussion/62574-speed-figures-surprised-if-true-answer-known.html

Interesting comparison.

Webby now scratching his chin and working out how he can beat the 3.2 manual times. ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: 05omegav6 on 25 September 2015, 21:03:43
With a manual 3.2 on nitrous... might not make the return run though ::) so it won't count ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: biggriffin on 30 September 2015, 19:28:29
Sorry, but I missed it.  ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 06 October 2015, 12:34:26
Is this thread still going? ;) :D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Diamond Black Geezer on 06 October 2015, 13:08:56
Yes!! Hurray!!!
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: EMD on 06 October 2015, 13:19:58
He's in to faster things nowadays  ;D

(http://www.bobsbmw.com/wp-content/uploads/new/2014/10/polar-bear-index-sm.jpg)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Diamond Black Geezer on 06 October 2015, 13:21:54
 :D ;D :D ;D :D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: biggriffin on 06 October 2015, 20:57:46
He's in to faster things nowadays  ;D

(http://www.bobsbmw.com/wp-content/uploads/new/2014/10/polar-bear-index-sm.jpg)

Ha ha
 more I hear them cry. ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 08 October 2015, 04:39:30
Lol still on my hols til the weekend so will be looking for some answers to queries when I get back.

One for now though. . .

What should I expect to see from a vacuum gauge on an omega at idle?

When I return going to use this to look for exhaust blockages and all redo compression test also just to be sure
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 10 October 2015, 06:35:27


One for now though. . .

What should I expect to see from a vacuum gauge on an omega at idle?



Anyone?  :)

Looking online I'm informed that an engine producing between 16 and 21 inches of mercury is good though it's more important that it's a steady needle. Then I can also use this to look for exhaust blockages which is holding it at 3k rpm and the vac should rise slightly and not receed
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: 05omegav6 on 14 October 2015, 08:04:19
Here we go then...

'54 Manual Plod 3.2 Estate, 272500 miles, original engine/box/diff, IRS calibrated speedo, level road, 3.0° C, 5/8 fuel, 110kg driver and a 49" Whelen Liberty lightbar on the roof...

This is how you do it Webby (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/05omegav6/media/MOV_0223_000_zpsgaehr5lg.mp4.html)

0-60mph in 7 seconds :P

Pop that in your pipe and smoke it Mr Dbug :D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Gaffers on 14 October 2015, 10:03:42
Here we go then...

'54 Manual Plod 3.2 Estate, 272500 miles, original engine/box/diff, IRS calibrated speedo, level road, 3.0° C, 5/8 fuel, 110kg driver and a 49" Whelen Liberty lightbar on the roof...

This is how you do it Webby (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/05omegav6/media/MOV_0223_000_zpsgaehr5lg.mp4.html)

0-60mph in 7 seconds :P

Pop that in your pipe and smoke it Mr Dbug :D

Still slower to 30 than a milk float :)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: STEMO on 14 October 2015, 12:15:55
Here we go then...

'54 Manual Plod 3.2 Estate, 272500 miles, original engine/box/diff, IRS calibrated speedo, level road, 3.0° C, 5/8 fuel, 110kg driver and a 49" Whelen Liberty lightbar on the roof...

This is how you do it Webby (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/05omegav6/media/MOV_0223_000_zpsgaehr5lg.mp4.html)

0-60mph in 7 seconds :P

Pop that in your pipe and smoke it Mr Dbug :D
Was that going down a steep hill?  ;D
The acceleration is constant, even through the gear change.  :-\
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: henryd on 14 October 2015, 12:19:21
Here we go then...

'54 Manual Plod 3.2 Estate, 272500 miles, original engine/box/diff, IRS calibrated speedo, level road, 3.0° C, 5/8 fuel, 110kg driver and a 49" Whelen Liberty lightbar on the roof...

This is how you do it Webby (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/05omegav6/media/MOV_0223_000_zpsgaehr5lg.mp4.html)

0-60mph in 7 seconds :P

Pop that in your pipe and smoke it Mr Dbug :D
Was that going down a steep hill?  ;D
The acceleration is constant, even through the gear change.  :-\

Nah,back end up on stands :D :D ;)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Gaffers on 14 October 2015, 13:59:31
Here we go then...

'54 Manual Plod 3.2 Estate, 272500 miles, original engine/box/diff, IRS calibrated speedo, level road, 3.0° C, 5/8 fuel, 110kg driver and a 49" Whelen Liberty lightbar on the roof...

This is how you do it Webby (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/05omegav6/media/MOV_0223_000_zpsgaehr5lg.mp4.html)

0-60mph in 7 seconds :P

Pop that in your pipe and smoke it Mr Dbug :D
Was that going down a steep hill?  ;D
The acceleration is constant, even through the gear change.  :-\

Nah,back end up on stands :D :D ;)

Last time I saw Al's miggy do that kind of acceleration it was after a curry.  Coincidence?  I think not ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: 05omegav6 on 14 October 2015, 15:16:20
Here we go then...

'54 Manual Plod 3.2 Estate, 272500 miles, original engine/box/diff, IRS calibrated speedo, level road, 3.0° C, 5/8 fuel, 110kg driver and a 49" Whelen Liberty lightbar on the roof...

This is how you do it Webby (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/05omegav6/media/MOV_0223_000_zpsgaehr5lg.mp4.html)

0-60mph in 7 seconds :P

Pop that in your pipe and smoke it Mr Dbug :D
Was that going down a steep hill?  ;D
The acceleration is constant, even through the gear change.  :-\
That's called momentum ;)

If anything, it's up a very slight incline... was southbound on the A24 between Great Daux roundabout and Robin Hood roundabout starting from the layby on that stretch...
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: 05omegav6 on 14 October 2015, 15:17:27
Here we go then...

'54 Manual Plod 3.2 Estate, 272500 miles, original engine/box/diff, IRS calibrated speedo, level road, 3.0° C, 5/8 fuel, 110kg driver and a 49" Whelen Liberty lightbar on the roof...

This is how you do it Webby (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/05omegav6/media/MOV_0223_000_zpsgaehr5lg.mp4.html)

0-60mph in 7 seconds :P

Pop that in your pipe and smoke it Mr Dbug :D

Still slower to 30 than a milk float :)
Minimum range: 240 miles :-X
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: dbug on 14 October 2015, 16:06:46
Here we go then...

'54 Manual Plod 3.2 Estate, 272500 miles, original engine/box/diff, IRS calibrated speedo, level road, 3.0° C, 5/8 fuel, 110kg driver and a 49" Whelen Liberty lightbar on the roof...

This is how you do it Webby (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/05omegav6/media/MOV_0223_000_zpsgaehr5lg.mp4.html)

0-60mph in 7 seconds :P

Pop that in your pipe and smoke it Mr Dbug :D

Perhaps I was a tad pessimistic in my 8-9 secs, although unsure if your ex plod is representitive of a normal non plod car.  However your original statement was also a tad optimistic - "a two ton saloon capable of hitting 60 in 6-7 seconds" - looking at your video I concede it reached 60mph on your speedo (when was it last calibrated?) between 7 and 8 secs.
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 14 October 2015, 19:14:03


Still slower to 30 than a milk float :)
3.2 Maximum range: 240 miles :-X

Yes they say that 3.2's are shit on fuel....  ::)  ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: 05omegav6 on 14 October 2015, 19:28:10
Here we go then...

'54 Manual Plod 3.2 Estate, 272500 miles, original engine/box/diff, IRS calibrated speedo, level road, 3.0° C, 5/8 fuel, 110kg driver and a 49" Whelen Liberty lightbar on the roof...

This is how you do it Webby (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/05omegav6/media/MOV_0223_000_zpsgaehr5lg.mp4.html)

0-60mph in 7 seconds :P

Pop that in your pipe and smoke it Mr Dbug :D

Perhaps I was a tad pessimistic in my 8-9 secs, although unsure if your ex plod is representitive of a normal non plod car.  However your original statement was also a tad optimistic - "a two ton saloon capable of hitting 60 in 6-7 seconds" - looking at your video I concede it reached 60mph on your speedo (when was it last calibrated?) between 7 and 8 secs.
Opps me you're nitpicky... Speedo calibrated by IRS on install.. Current tyres are the same rolling radius as the factory supplied originals. Video equipment is calibrated much more regularly as it is evidential.
If I wanted to make excuses I could blame the time on the tyres being at their limit (being replaced tomorrow), the practicalities of filming from a breast pocket and of course the 4' 12"x1" plank bolted across the roof screwing up the airflow...

As for plod not being a production representation, a manual 3.0MV6 estate should be broadly similar.

Purpose was to demonstrate that the 3.2 has more potential that naysayers like you care to admit. :-X
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 14 October 2015, 23:18:38
Seeing as though every oof member has nit picked at my practises  ;D your video STARTS when you're doing 10mph!  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 14 October 2015, 23:21:13
Actually just re watched it and it's about at 0mph on the gauge to be fair. Though I was told on this thread that's not when to start! You start the moment you touch the accelerator.

More work needed  ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 14 October 2015, 23:22:19
Anyways re my speed tests. Got my vacuum gauge in the post today. Will be looking for exhaust restrictions and vacuum figures tomorrow.

Anyone know what the figure should be at idle for the omega?
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: dbug on 15 October 2015, 03:33:27
Here we go then...

'54 Manual Plod 3.2 Estate, 272500 miles, original engine/box/diff, IRS calibrated speedo, level road, 3.0° C, 5/8 fuel, 110kg driver and a 49" Whelen Liberty lightbar on the roof...

This is how you do it Webby (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/05omegav6/media/MOV_0223_000_zpsgaehr5lg.mp4.html)

0-60mph in 7 seconds :P

Pop that in your pipe and smoke it Mr Dbug :D

Perhaps I was a tad pessimistic in my 8-9 secs, although unsure if your ex plod is representitive of a normal non plod car.  However your original statement was also a tad optimistic - "a two ton saloon capable of hitting 60 in 6-7 seconds" - looking at your video I concede it reached 60mph on your speedo (when was it last calibrated?) between 7 and 8 secs.
Opps me you're nitpicky... Speedo calibrated by IRS on install.. Current tyres are the same rolling radius as the factory supplied originals. Video equipment is calibrated much more regularly as it is evidential.
If I wanted to make excuses I could blame the time on the tyres being at their limit (being replaced tomorrow), the practicalities of filming from a breast pocket and of course the 4' 12"x1" plank bolted across the roof screwing up the airflow...

As for plod not being a production representation, a manual 3.0MV6 estate should be broadly similar.

Purpose was to demonstrate that the 3.2 has more potential that naysayers like you care to admit. :-X

Pot kettle black ;D ;D must be contagious  ;D ;D
Calibrated back in 2003/4 - take it its still "calibrated" as you used it in your video ???
Agreed, but you don't have the video equipment ;)
And should perform eactly the same as its broadly similar. ;D

Just being "nitpicky"  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: 05omegav6 on 15 October 2015, 04:45:08
It's accurate enough ;) As for video, once the VASCAR is fully installed we can put it to the test...

As for the 3.0 comparison, it's the closest retail model, so the broadly similar reference allows for the subtle differences in the way the engines deliver their power.

Wasn't done as a scientific test anyways, merely to demonstrate a point... ::)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: 05omegav6 on 15 October 2015, 04:48:26
Actually just re watched it and it's about at 0mph on the gauge to be fair. Though I was told on this thread that's not when to start! You start the moment you touch the accelerator.

More work needed  ;D
Had the camera set on a ten second delay... Hammer went down as it beeped when it started recording :y
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 15 October 2015, 06:59:12
Actually just re watched it and it's about at 0mph on the gauge to be fair. Though I was told on this thread that's not when to start! You start the moment you touch the accelerator.

More work needed  ;D
Had the camera set on a ten second delay... Hammer went down as it beeped when it started recording :y

And I trust you had the extra 200kg in weight in the car that Vauxhall used when they tested the motor, you know, for a true comparison ?
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: 05omegav6 on 15 October 2015, 08:21:28
Well, given it is basically Elite spec with towbar, I would have to say yes... :D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: biggriffin on 15 October 2015, 08:52:01
Page 34, the mice still keeping wheel running. :)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 15 October 2015, 20:11:40
Well, given it is basically Elite spec with towbar, I would have to say yes... :D

well, in fairness to you young sir, ive now done the maths (cos im a sad barsteward) and you're actually very close to the original Vauxhall test weight.

looking at the owners manual your specific car needs to weigh 1825kg to be at the correct test weight. with a base kerb weight of 1625 (ive already minused the weight they add on for an average driver of 68kg), your towbar at 24kg, half a tank of fuel (as per your video) roughly 25kg, your body weight of around 76kg (youre 12st right from what I remember you saying once? may have made that up if so apologies lol) and the spare I assumed you were carrying at 20kg that works out at 1770kg. so youre only 55kg off which equates to 3 tenths roughly which is nowt in your case as you're well around the correct 0-60 time for your car. assuming youre happy that you timed it right. if not, like me, youll need to invest in some sort of accelerometer as tigger or opti mentioned.

So. the fact that i'm quite a bit off, and others like your good self are bang on, hopefully you understand why I'm interested to find out why.... hence the 34 page thread   :)

Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: 05omegav6 on 15 October 2015, 20:25:08
Well, given it is basically Elite spec with towbar, I would have to say yes... :D

well, in fairness to you young sir, ive now done the maths (cos im a sad barsteward) and you're actually very close to the original Vauxhall test weight.

looking at the owners manual your specific car needs to weigh 1825kg to be at the correct test weight. with a base kerb weight of 1625 (ive already minused the weight they add on for an average driver of 68kg), your towbar at 24kg, half a tank of fuel (as per your video) roughly 25kg, your body weight of around 116kg (youre a fat sod right from what I remember you saying once? may have made that up if so apologies lol) and the spare I assumed you were carrying at 20kg that works out at 1770kg. so youre only 15kg off which equates to 3 tenths roughly which is nowt in your case as you're well around the correct 0-60 time for your car. assuming youre happy that you timed it right. if not, like me, youll need to invest in some sort of accelerometer as tigger or opti mentioned.

So. the fact that i'm quite a bit off, and others like your good self are bang on, hopefully you understand why I'm interested to find out why.... hence the 34 page thread   :)


Fixed for accuracy :D, but all the plod wiring and boxes more than make up for it... Light bar is nearly 20kgs on its own :o
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 15 October 2015, 20:38:23
Well, given it is basically Elite spec with towbar, I would have to say yes... :D

well, in fairness to you young sir, ive now done the maths (cos im a sad barsteward) and you're actually very close to the original Vauxhall test weight.

looking at the owners manual your specific car needs to weigh 1825kg to be at the correct test weight. with a base kerb weight of 1625 (ive already minused the weight they add on for an average driver of 68kg), your towbar at 24kg, half a tank of fuel (as per your video) roughly 25kg, your body weight of around 116kg (youre a fat sod right from what I remember you saying once? may have made that up if so apologies lol) and the spare I assumed you were carrying at 20kg that works out at 1770kg. so youre only 15kg off which equates to 3 tenths roughly which is nowt in your case as you're well around the correct 0-60 time for your car. assuming youre happy that you timed it right. if not, like me, youll need to invest in some sort of accelerometer as tigger or opti mentioned.

So. the fact that i'm quite a bit off, and others like your good self are bang on, hopefully you understand why I'm interested to find out why.... hence the 34 page thread   :)


Fixed for accuracy :D, but all the plod wiring and boxes more than make up for it... Light bar is nearly 20kgs on its own :o

f... off are you 18 stone  ;D ;D ;D when I met you at the xmas curry you were a slender young man  :-* so unless you're suffering from a reccent addiction to jam whats happened  ??? ;D

anyways, as mentioned im happy that yours is doing what it says on the tin and I did it in almosy identical fashin based on what you've said. therefore I conclude I have a performance issue  :-X with my omega

 :y :y :y
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 15 October 2015, 20:41:58
This could be the start of an interesting thread. :)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 15 October 2015, 20:44:33
This could be the start of an interesting thread. :)

 ;D ;D ;D

opti, was it your good self that mentioned the performance meter? I don't fancy buying one and thenreturning it (asi don't even have the cash to do that  ;D)...is there any cheaper alternative? cos once ive done my performance testing and made suretheres nothing wrong I want to gofor a proper run at santa pod (or similar)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: 05omegav6 on 15 October 2015, 21:39:08
Ok, maybe not that much... :-[
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: aaronjb on 15 October 2015, 23:14:01
This could be the start of an interesting thread. :)

It's starting to sound like a dating thread with all the compliments in Webby's post..  ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: 05omegav6 on 15 October 2015, 23:18:39
This could be the start of an interesting thread. :)

It's starting to sound like a dating thread with all the compliments in Webby's post..  ;D
There's a gaping chasm between being single and being desperate :-*
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Nick W on 15 October 2015, 23:26:56


 ;D ;D ;D

opti, was it your good self that mentioned the performance meter? I don't fancy buying one and then returning it (as I[size=78%] don't even have the cash to do that [/size] ;D [/size][size=78%])...is there any cheaper alternative? cos once ive done my performance testing and made sure theres nothing wrong I want to go for a proper run at santa pod (or similar)[/size]


I've got one if you're interested. Race Technology AP22; one of the functions is automatic 0-60 timing
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: 05omegav6 on 16 October 2015, 00:53:24
Oh alright then...
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 16 October 2015, 18:11:22


 ;D ;D ;D

opti, was it your good self that mentioned the performance meter? I don't fancy buying one and then returning it (as I[size=78%] don't even have the cash to do that [/size] ;D [/size][size=78%])...is there any cheaper alternative? cos once ive done my performance testing and made sure theres nothing wrong I want to go for a proper run at santa pod (or similar)[/size]


I've got one if you're interested. Race Technology AP22; one of the functions is automatic 0-60 timing

VERY interested nick. if youre looking to sell it or if I could perhaps rent it just pm me details :) cheers mate
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: biggriffin on 17 October 2015, 08:40:19
This could be the start of an interesting thread. :)

It's starting to sound like a dating thread with all the compliments in Webby's post..  ;D
There's a gaping chasm between being single and being desperate :-*

Since when?
Boyo goes out on the pull, night starts getting near its end, boyo starts getting desperate, looks around, and whooosh, he pulls, wakes up and runs away, happen's every weekend up and down the country, or throughout the WORLD, its a learning thingy.

If webby and tele-porter wish to come to Cambridgeshire oof Xmas curry, we are all welcomingly. ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 17 October 2015, 20:35:06
 ;D ;D ;D

I have more questions  ;D

As mentioned before, can auto box / transmission wear cause power loss? If so how and why?

If I have good compression (as I do in my car) can I still have bottom end wear of some sort that can cause power loss? I can't see this being the case cos my understanding is as long as the compression is good the bottom end is good? I know Mark said this shouldn't wear but looking at all things  :)

Anyone ever had a engine oil analysis done? This is where they take a sample of oil and give you a report to state what metal contents are in the oil thus you're able to work out and narrow down if a comment is wearing. Thinking about doing this. Cod I'm sad  :)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: biggriffin on 17 October 2015, 21:18:16
If you want to go, all power.
 
Use 0 weight oils,
Re_pack all bearings with low friction grease eg(zx-1)
 Use a high octane fuel (optimal) add octane booster and a 10% toluene base.
 Nice new filters all round
 Make sure there's no brakes dragging
Thinnest tyres possible  195 width
Take all protrusions off
Tape door shuts, Tape up(smooth air flow).

This get you thinking. ???
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Gaffers on 19 October 2015, 11:39:05
If you want to go, all power.
 
Use 0 weight oils,
Re_pack all bearings with low friction grease eg(zx-1)
 Use a high octane fuel (optimal) add octane booster and a 10% toluene base.
 Nice new filters all round
 Make sure there's no brakes dragging
Thinnest tyres possible  195 width
Take all protrusions off
Tape door shuts, Tape up(smooth air flow).

This get you thinking. ???

Brought to you by VAG's official performance testing centre ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Broomies Mate on 20 October 2015, 00:09:09
If you want to go, all power.
 
Use 0 weight oils,
Re_pack all bearings with low friction grease eg(zx-1)
 Use a high octane fuel (optimal) add octane booster and a 10% toluene base.
 Nice new filters all round
 Make sure there's no brakes dragging
Thinnest tyres possible  195 width
Take all protrusions off
Tape door shuts, Tape up(smooth air flow).

This get you thinking. ???

Toluene is an octane booster.  I run ~7% Toluene with Shell V-Power Nitro+ Optimax Momenturm Super-Duper (whatever they are calling it nowadays).  With 98RON fuel, I'm estimating I have 101-102RON in the tank.  :y

Does it make a difference?  Dunno on an Omega, would the ECU be able to adapt that far?  In the Vectra Saab, Trionic 7 adapts beautifully..... Yes, it makes a bloody big difference.
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 20 October 2015, 18:18:09
book says it can adapt to 98ron  :y
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: TheBoy on 20 October 2015, 18:30:08
We all know the 3.0l would outperform the 3.2l, as not compromised so much :)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Broomies Mate on 20 October 2015, 22:43:53
book says it can adapt to 98ron  :y

So, no then! It won't be helped by an octane booster! (Interestingly, has anyone tried it?)

We all know the 3.0l would outperform the 3.2l, as not compromised so much :)

I own neither underpowered, over-thirsty cars anymore, but I owned several 3.0's and one 3.2.  Maybe I had a belter of a 3.2, but in real-life driving, the 3.2 is the quicker of the variants.  :y
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 21 October 2015, 18:12:03
lol this 3.0 vs 3.2 is just as silly as my thread  ;D

anyways...some developments and testing results tht I'd like you to peruse and make comments as to whether theres a problem...

so, was quiet at work today so plummed in the vacuum gauge straight from the brake servo (and tee'd it in so it was all still plumbed up)....... got car up to temp and at idle it was holding a ROCK STEADY vacuum of 20inHG. Perfect!!!

I then brought the rpm's up to 3k and held it there.....again, rock steady vacuum of 23inHG. PERFECT! This confirms there's zero exhaust restrictions, zero vacuum leaks and the engine is very healthy. really really pleased actually.

I blipped the throttle a few times and all vacuum dropped to 0 and came back to a steady 20inHG at idle. i believe this to also be completely normal.

while car was in i got my infrared thermometer out and got one of the mechanics to jump in and hold it at 2500k rpm. i checked the inlet and outlet temp. of both cats. now, my understanding is that the outlet should be 100oF hotter than the inlet. however, i got similar readings on both....

drivers cat:
inlet 180oF
outlet 135oF

pass. cat:
inlet 230oF
outlet 180(ish)oF

Would this have any bearing on performance?
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Kevin Wood on 21 October 2015, 18:16:35
I own neither underpowered, over-thirsty cars anymore, but I owned several 3.0's and one 3.2.  Maybe I had a belter of a 3.2, but in real-life driving, the 3.2 is the quicker of the variants.  :y

Was your 3.0 made out of steel or that <cough!> ultra light, weight-saving material that's brown in colour and has the secret chemical formula Fe2O3.nH2O?  :-X
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Broomies Mate on 21 October 2015, 22:31:30
I own neither underpowered, over-thirsty cars anymore, but I owned several 3.0's and one 3.2.  Maybe I had a belter of a 3.2, but in real-life driving, the 3.2 is the quicker of the variants.  :y

Was your 3.0 made out of steel or that <cough!> ultra light, weight-saving material that's brown in colour and has the secret chemical formula Fe2O3.nH2O?  :-X

Not really getting why you are asking, but apart from a few bubbles here and there, and the odd arch or two, none of my Omega's have been rotten.  Come to think of it, the latest one (the 3.2) suffered the worst, but nothing to cry about.
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Kevin Wood on 21 October 2015, 23:36:31
I own neither underpowered, over-thirsty cars anymore, but I owned several 3.0's and one 3.2.  Maybe I had a belter of a 3.2, but in real-life driving, the 3.2 is the quicker of the variants.  :y

Was your 3.0 made out of steel or that <cough!> ultra light, weight-saving material that's brown in colour and has the secret chemical formula Fe2O3.nH2O?  :-X

Not really getting why you are asking, but apart from a few bubbles here and there, and the odd arch or two, none of my Omega's have been rotten.  Come to think of it, the latest one (the 3.2) suffered the worst, but nothing to cry about.
Ahh.. I wasn't asking about yours. ;)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Broomies Mate on 21 October 2015, 23:40:37
I own neither underpowered, over-thirsty cars anymore, but I owned several 3.0's and one 3.2.  Maybe I had a belter of a 3.2, but in real-life driving, the 3.2 is the quicker of the variants.  :y

Was your 3.0 made out of steel or that <cough!> ultra light, weight-saving material that's brown in colour and has the secret chemical formula Fe2O3.nH2O?  :-X

Not really getting why you are asking, but apart from a few bubbles here and there, and the odd arch or two, none of my Omega's have been rotten.  Come to think of it, the latest one (the 3.2) suffered the worst, but nothing to cry about.
Ahh.. I wasn't asking about yours. ;)

No worries.

I take it you were asking TB, who has delusions about the 3.2.  I reckon he needs to drive one for more than 5 minutes.  ::)

*Awaits STEMO* "You cant drive an omega for more than 5 minutes.... it'll break down"
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Kevin Wood on 21 October 2015, 23:44:33
I own neither underpowered, over-thirsty cars anymore, but I owned several 3.0's and one 3.2.  Maybe I had a belter of a 3.2, but in real-life driving, the 3.2 is the quicker of the variants.  :y

Was your 3.0 made out of steel or that <cough!> ultra light, weight-saving material that's brown in colour and has the secret chemical formula Fe2O3.nH2O?  :-X

Not really getting why you are asking, but apart from a few bubbles here and there, and the odd arch or two, none of my Omega's have been rotten.  Come to think of it, the latest one (the 3.2) suffered the worst, but nothing to cry about.
Ahh.. I wasn't asking about yours. ;)

No worries.

I take it you were asking TB, who has delusions about the 3.2.  I reckon he needs to drive one for more than 5 minutes.  ::)

*Awaits STEMO* "You cant drive an omega for more than 5 minutes.... it'll break down"
I think the RustySilver bullet must be really light by now. :-X
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 22 October 2015, 18:44:43
lol this 3.0 vs 3.2 is just as silly as my thread  ;D

anyways...some developments and testing results tht I'd like you to peruse and make comments as to whether theres a problem...

so, was quiet at work today so plummed in the vacuum gauge straight from the brake servo (and tee'd it in so it was all still plumbed up)....... got car up to temp and at idle it was holding a ROCK STEADY vacuum of 20inHG. Perfect!!!

I then brought the rpm's up to 3k and held it there.....again, rock steady vacuum of 23inHG. PERFECT! This confirms there's zero exhaust restrictions, zero vacuum leaks and the engine is very healthy. really really pleased actually.

I blipped the throttle a few times and all vacuum dropped to 0 and came back to a steady 20inHG at idle. i believe this to also be completely normal.

while car was in i got my infrared thermometer out and got one of the mechanics to jump in and hold it at 2500k rpm. i checked the inlet and outlet temp. of both cats. now, my understanding is that the outlet should be 100oF hotter than the inlet. however, i got similar readings on both....

drivers cat:
inlet 180oF
outlet 135oF

pass. cat:
inlet 230oF
outlet 180(ish)oF

Would this have any bearing on performance?

So anyone got any advice / opinions on my testing (other than shut up  ::))

so we got an engine that's performing well with no exhaust blockages. very well in fact and backed up by evidence. but we have two cats that don't appear to be working correctly (certainly according to the infrared test.

so. can non performing cats affect acceleration? could this be a worn/wearing transmission issue? could this be a worn diff problem?

discuss  :)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 22 October 2015, 18:53:16
lol this 3.0 vs 3.2 is just as silly as my thread  ;D

anyways...some developments and testing results tht I'd like you to peruse and make comments as to whether theres a problem...

so, was quiet at work today so plummed in the vacuum gauge straight from the brake servo (and tee'd it in so it was all still plumbed up)....... got car up to temp and at idle it was holding a ROCK STEADY vacuum of 20inHG. Perfect!!!

I then brought the rpm's up to 3k and held it there.....again, rock steady vacuum of 23inHG. PERFECT! This confirms there's zero exhaust restrictions, zero vacuum leaks and the engine is very healthy. really really pleased actually.

I blipped the throttle a few times and all vacuum dropped to 0 and came back to a steady 20inHG at idle. i believe this to also be completely normal.

while car was in i got my infrared thermometer out and got one of the mechanics to jump in and hold it at 2500k rpm. i checked the inlet and outlet temp. of both cats. now, my understanding is that the outlet should be 100oF hotter than the inlet. however, i got similar readings on both....

drivers cat:
inlet 180oF
outlet 135oF

pass. cat:
inlet 230oF
outlet 180(ish)oF

Would this have any bearing on performance?

So anyone got any advice / opinions on my testing (other than shut up  ::))

so we got an engine that's performing well with no exhaust blockages. very well in fact and backed up by evidence. but we have two cats that don't appear to be working correctly (certainly according to the infrared test.

so. can non performing cats affect acceleration? could this be a worn/wearing transmission issue? could this be a worn diff problem?

discuss  :)

The 2.5 will struggle to better 10 seconds with a'portly' driver at the helm. :) :) ;)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: 05omegav6 on 22 October 2015, 18:59:17
Diff wear is negligible in it's relevance  :y the instant any slack, and we're talking much less than a mm of slop anyways... is taken up, then that's it until you lift off and smack the hammer down again...
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 22 October 2015, 19:19:03
lol this 3.0 vs 3.2 is just as silly as my thread  ;D

anyways...some developments and testing results tht I'd like you to peruse and make comments as to whether theres a problem...

so, was quiet at work today so plummed in the vacuum gauge straight from the brake servo (and tee'd it in so it was all still plumbed up)....... got car up to temp and at idle it was holding a ROCK STEADY vacuum of 20inHG. Perfect!!!

I then brought the rpm's up to 3k and held it there.....again, rock steady vacuum of 23inHG. PERFECT! This confirms there's zero exhaust restrictions, zero vacuum leaks and the engine is very healthy. really really pleased actually.

I blipped the throttle a few times and all vacuum dropped to 0 and came back to a steady 20inHG at idle. i believe this to also be completely normal.

while car was in i got my infrared thermometer out and got one of the mechanics to jump in and hold it at 2500k rpm. i checked the inlet and outlet temp. of both cats. now, my understanding is that the outlet should be 100oF hotter than the inlet. however, i got similar readings on both....

drivers cat:
inlet 180oF
outlet 135oF

pass. cat:
inlet 230oF
outlet 180(ish)oF

Would this have any bearing on performance?

So anyone got any advice / opinions on my testing (other than shut up  ::))

so we got an engine that's performing well with no exhaust blockages. very well in fact and backed up by evidence. but we have two cats that don't appear to be working correctly (certainly according to the infrared test.

so. can non performing cats affect acceleration? could this be a worn/wearing transmission issue? could this be a worn diff problem?

discuss  :)

The 2.5 will struggle to better 10 seconds with a'portly' driver at the helm. :) :) ;)

 ;D I am actually losing some weight. lost 10lb since being full time at the garage  :)

ok, lets look at this in a different way.

I am totally satisfied my engine is doing really well. and I have lots of evidence to support this.

SO

This ''issue'' is one of the following.....

1.) the transmission has a fault/is worn and is not transmitting the engines power to the wheels
2.) the diff is worn (just seen taxi al's reply so this can be scratched off the list)
3.) as you suggested before opti, the way I timed the 0-60 dash is way off and actually my performance testing/timing is very flawed and the car's actually performing bang on if timed correctly
4.) the info on original Vauxhall testing is flawed: the current boss (had personal reply  8)) says they add on 200kg to the kerb weight including the driver. however ian coomber (importantly head of Vauxhall when the omega was launched) SURMISED that the car would be tested with driver and low fuel to improve figures....if thiss the case my initial testing is good!
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Nick W on 22 October 2015, 20:32:56
Your biggest problem is timing consistency.


If you are starting/stopping the timer then you will be miles off each time you do so. A quick test for this is simple: get a stop watch, and repeatedly try and stop it at the same number of tenths of a second. Unless you can do this everytime, then you cannot make any worthwhile comparisons.  Even if you are consistent the comparisons only apply to your techniques/equipment, not other published figures. Don't forget that you are introducing another error if you are using a visual check of the speedo as a timing event: they aren't very accurate, and nor are you! Tenths of a second aren't a particularly precise measurement either.


You also need to consider how many runs you are using to make your comparisons: if you're not into double figures(at least!!) you might just as well have a couple of beers and make up some numbers.
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 22 October 2015, 20:45:01
Completely fair point Nick.

I therefore conclude I need to lay this to bed until I can get my grubby paw(s) on some proper timing equipment at a ''grippy'' test track like Santa Pod.  :y
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Broomies Mate on 22 October 2015, 21:35:00
Completely fair point Nick.

I therefore conclude I need to lay this to bed until I can get my grubby paw(s) on some proper timing equipment at a ''grippy'' test track like Santa Pod.  :y


Shut the front door!  Tickle my tits and call me Tracy!  Blow me down with a feather! etc etc etc  :D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 22 October 2015, 21:48:29
Completely fair point Nick.

I therefore conclude I need to lay this to bed until I can get my grubby paw(s) on some proper timing equipment at a ''grippy'' test track like Santa Pod.  :y

Traction shouldn't be a problem.
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: biggriffin on 22 October 2015, 22:07:45
Completely fair point Nick.

I therefore conclude I need to lay this to bed until I can get my grubby paw(s) on some proper timing equipment at a ''grippy'' test track like Santa Pod.  :y

Traction shouldn't be a problem.
just need the right amount !
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Diamond Black Geezer on 23 October 2015, 16:50:51
....
4.) the info on original Vauxhall testing is flawed: the current boss (had personal reply  8)) says they add on 200kg to the kerb weight including the driver. however ian coomber (importantly head of Vauxhall when the omega was launched) SURMISED that the car would be tested with driver and low fuel to improve figures....if thiss the case my initial testing is good!



Ahh! glad you got in touch with him, very nice chap when I've spoken to him. He's passionate about the brand  :y
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 23 October 2015, 18:34:06
Yeah, really nice chap, DBG. Thanks for letting me know his details  :y

So, as I mentioned, i'll borrow (assuming that's still ok) Nick's accelerometer and get to the track when I can (though obviously weather's against us now).

In the mean time, let's assume it's down on power for the purposes of the discussion. I've proved the engine's working at it's best. Could wear in the transmission cause poor acceleration. if so can someone explain how?

 :)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Andy H on 23 October 2015, 21:00:13
I cannot remember if yours is auto or manual :-\

If you have a manual box it is probably the time it takes to change gear that would have the biggest impact - by the time I got rid of my old 2.5 it had done over 200,000 miles and the synchro hubs were shagged. Changing gear was a bit of a chore and couldn't be rushed :(

If you have an auto then wear in the clutch plates will mean that it takes longer for each ratio to engage (because it takes more fluid to up the slack) and might result in clutch slip.
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 24 October 2015, 19:56:35
I cannot remember if yours is auto or manual :-\

If you have a manual box it is probably the time it takes to change gear that would have the biggest impact - by the time I got rid of my old 2.5 it had done over 200,000 miles and the synchro hubs were shagged. Changing gear was a bit of a chore and couldn't be rushed :(

If you have an auto then wear in the clutch plates will mean that it takes longer for each ratio to engage (because it takes more fluid to up the slack) and might result in clutch slip.

Thanks Andy.

It's auto with the AR25 box  :y

Will wear in the clutch plates affect acceleration through the Rev range or is this solely an issue when it physically changes gear? And could this account for a good second of acceleration time on a 0-60?  :)

History of the box is that it's never had an oil or filter drain, there is some leakage from the pinion seal at the rear but I did check the level last year and it hasn't lost hardly any (despite the mess on the outside. . . Though I presume that's dos the prop shaft would spin it all around and make it look bad  ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 25 October 2015, 12:55:01
I cannot remember if yours is auto or manual :-\

If you have a manual box it is probably the time it takes to change gear that would have the biggest impact - by the time I got rid of my old 2.5 it had done over 200,000 miles and the synchro hubs were shagged. Changing gear was a bit of a chore and couldn't be rushed :(

If you have an auto then wear in the clutch plates will mean that it takes longer for each ratio to engage (because it takes more fluid to up the slack) and might result in clutch slip.

Thanks Andy.

It's auto with the AR25 box  :y

Will wear in the clutch plates affect acceleration through the Rev range or is this solely an issue when it physically changes gear? And could this account for a good second of acceleration time on a 0-60?  :)

History of the box is that it's never had an oil or filter drain, there is some leakage from the pinion seal at the rear but I did check the level last year and it hasn't lost hardly any (despite the mess on the outside. . . Though I presume that's dos the prop shaft would spin it all around and make it look bad  ;D

Also. Just to add to some info on the box. . . When I'm cruising I'll floor it (in sport) and sometimes it will kick down, drop a cog and give that satisfying loin girding and then fly off. . . Other times it will stay in the gear and simply rise in revs.... Very unsatisfying! Is that normal auto box operation? Or should it kick down every time I demand full acceleration?
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: 05omegav6 on 25 October 2015, 13:36:24
Kickdown depends on certain conditions being met... throttle position/RPM/current gear/Road speed etc :y

To be certain of it kicking down... Lift off the throttle completely then instantly bury the pedal again...

Should force it down to second everytime :y
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: biggriffin on 25 October 2015, 15:11:06
Kickdown depends on certain conditions being met... throttle position/RPM/current gear/Road speed etc :y

To be certain of it kicking down... Lift off the throttle completely then instantly bury the pedal again...

Should force it down to second everytime :y

Bah. Just launch in S mode foot on tut floor.
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: 05omegav6 on 25 October 2015, 15:42:48
S button merely changes the shift criteria :y
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 26 October 2015, 12:24:19
so the fact that it doesn't always kick down (I'd say most of the time it does) even if I floor it in sport, that is normal operation?

So coming back to the original question. .  .

The possible wear in the tranny could cause acceleration loss?
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 26 October 2015, 22:51:52

The possible wear in the tranny could cause acceleration loss?

Anyone confirm this?
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Broomies Mate on 26 October 2015, 22:58:08

The possible wear in the tranny could cause acceleration loss?

Anyone confirm this?

Yes it can if the gear changes are sluggish due to loss of friction.  Think of it as a slipping clutch on a Manual.  Not all of the intended 'power' is being sent to the driving wheels.

But how far do you go?  If the Diff oil is not at it's prime, it'll cause extra friction in the Diff, causing a loss of power to the driven wheels.

etc etc etc etc etc
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Diamond Black Geezer on 27 October 2015, 10:51:03
Has Mr The Bear not done his gearbox oil? Certainly worth doing it if you haven't, even for preventative maintenance. I found just over a litre more went in, than came out of mine  :)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Kevin Wood on 27 October 2015, 11:10:10
I can't think of anything in the transmission which could absorb a significant amount of engine output yet not destroy itself in the process. Certainly, if it was slipping, it would burn out the clutches in short order.

By all means do a fluid change, as that's advisable on a regular basis anyway, but don't count on it making much difference. ;)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Diamond Black Geezer on 27 October 2015, 14:06:42
Not being intricately aware of the workings of a torque converter, would this be the logical place for any slip to occur?

Personally I think Webby's got a damn fine engine, myself. Any engine that can produce 99% (and possibly 100%, we'll never know unless it was bench tested the day it left Russelsheim) of the same power so many years after being built is brilliant.
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: BazaJT on 27 October 2015, 19:09:45
The saga continues!!This is set to run longer than Coronation Street :D ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 27 October 2015, 21:08:39

The possible wear in the tranny could cause acceleration loss?

Anyone confirm this?

Yes it can if the gear changes are sluggish due to loss of friction.  Think of it as a slipping clutch on a Manual.  Not all of the intended 'power' is being sent to the driving wheels.

But how far do you go?  If the Diff oil is not at it's prime, it'll cause extra friction in the Diff, causing a loss of power to the driven wheels.

etc etc etc etc etc

Perfect thanks broomie  :y
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 27 October 2015, 21:12:45
I can't think of anything in the transmission which could absorb a significant amount of engine output yet not destroy itself in the process. Certainly, if it was slipping, it would burn out the clutches in short order.

By all means do a fluid change, as that's advisable on a regular basis anyway, but don't count on it making much difference. ;)

Sorry kev, are you agreeing that the loss of performance could be in the gearbox?

To be totally honest, as long as I have a reason for where the power has gone I am not fussed about getting a new gearbox to fix five tenths at the race track! But as a new car mechanic I like to understand it and have a definitive reason for it.

The facts are these. . . I have proved my engine is performing exactly as it should and did all those years ago. . . It has to be the tranny.

How to test this for sure. . . Transmission oil analysis! And yes, I am that sad  :y
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 27 October 2015, 21:16:27
Has Mr The Bear not done his gearbox oil? Certainly worth doing it if you haven't, even for preventative maintenance. I found just over a litre more went in, than came out of mine  :)

Lol no mate I've never changed it. And that's cos I read somewhere that if you do an oil change on an ageing tranny that's never had new oil, it can wreck it. Sum at to do with the new 'slippy' oil being able to bypass things that the old oil (being thicker) was sealing up. That's what I heard. No idea if that's true.
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Andy H on 27 October 2015, 21:26:20
Not being intricately aware of the workings of a torque converter, would this be the logical place for any slip to occur?

Personally I think Webby's got a damn fine engine, myself. Any engine that can produce 99% (and possibly 100%, we'll never know unless it was bench tested the day it left Russelsheim) of the same power so many years after being built is brilliant.
Have a read of this article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torque_converter (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torque_converter)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Andy H on 27 October 2015, 21:37:16
Has Mr The Bear not done his gearbox oil? Certainly worth doing it if you haven't, even for preventative maintenance. I found just over a litre more went in, than came out of mine  :)

Lol no mate I've never changed it. And that's cos I read somewhere that if you do an oil change on an ageing tranny that's never had new oil, it can wreck it. Sum at to do with the new 'slippy' oil being able to bypass things that the old oil (being thicker) was sealing up. That's what I heard. No idea if that's true.
I changed the oil in mine about 20,000 miles ago (at 185,000 miles) because it is slow to engage reverse and I wanted to see if there were any things in the sump that shouldn't be there. It didn't make any difference at all. ::)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Broomies Mate on 27 October 2015, 23:45:47
Different transmission admittedly, but my 126,000 mile Saab has been treated to THREE transmission oil changes in quick succession (30 miles between changes).  The Transmission fluid was dark, and didn't smell great.  Not a lot of fluid is in the sump, so a simple drain and re-fill won't replace a lot, three efforts, and there is still old fluid in there.

More difficult with the stupid 'sealed for life' crap in the Omega and lots of other modern cars. 

Anyone who believes an Auto Transmission doesn't benefit from fresh oil needs a lesson in Oil degradation!   ::)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Diamond Black Geezer on 28 October 2015, 11:13:43
Has Mr The Bear not done his gearbox oil? Certainly worth doing it if you haven't, even for preventative maintenance. I found just over a litre more went in, than came out of mine  :)

Lol no mate I've never changed it. And that's cos I read somewhere that if you do an oil change on an ageing tranny that's never had new oil, it can wreck it. Sum at to do with the new 'slippy' oil being able to bypass things that the old oil (being thicker) was sealing up. That's what I heard. No idea if that's true.

Noo, well worth an oil change, vauxhall themselves recommend it on higher mileage (because they never get servicing times wrong *cough timing belt cough timing belt*) :y
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: tigers_gonads on 28 October 2015, 11:37:47
So what IS the 0-60 time supposed to be then ..............   ::)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Diamond Black Geezer on 28 October 2015, 11:39:23
I've forgotten what Webby's actual time was, now, it was that long ago  :D

Brochure is 9.5 or thereabouts?
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: T.m.f on 28 October 2015, 14:35:46
I can't think of anything in the transmission which could absorb a significant amount of engine output yet not destroy itself in the process. Certainly, if it was slipping, it would burn out the clutches in short order.

By all means do a fluid change, as that's advisable on a regular basis anyway, but don't count on it making much difference. ;)

Sorry kev, are you agreeing that the loss of performance could be in the gearbox?

To be totally honest, as long as I have a reason for where the power has gone I am not fussed about getting a new gearbox to fix five tenths at the race track! But as a new car mechanic I like to understand it and have a definitive reason for it.

The facts are these. . . I have proved my engine is performing exactly as it should and did all those years ago. . . It has to be the tranny.

How to test this for sure. . . Transmission oil analysis! And yes, I am that sad  :y
How about changing the tranny for a ts model,best of both worlds then  ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 28 October 2015, 18:17:04
To be honest, I'm more interested in proving that it's the transmission slipping. How can I prove it's slipping SLIGHTLY? keep in mind it is only slight power loss so there's no obvious signs (e.g. hard to go in to gear)  :y

thoughts?
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Kevin Wood on 28 October 2015, 18:20:49
Sorry - what I meant to get across in my recent post is that even the slightest slip will turn into a complete failure in no time at all, so I don't think a slipping transmission is going to be limiting it.

Some fresh fluid might tighten up the torque converter a little, and will be good for it anyway, but aside from that, there is noting in the transmission that can reduce the acceleration without dying in spectacular style. ;)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 28 October 2015, 18:28:03
Got ya Kev. thanks for that.

So as ive proved the engine's spot on and the transmission wont affect acceleration (as ive done lots of testing and it hasn't blown up yet!) then I must conclude that its my testing (as opti and others pointed out before) or my driving is flawed.

so to prove this I need to go to santapod with a proper accelerometer (or hi-tec equivalent) and it should do it in the time. would folk concur?
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: STEMO on 28 October 2015, 18:36:01
My question would be "Are you sure that the figures Vx originally released were accurate to the nearest tenth, or just a 'near enough' estimation"?
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 28 October 2015, 19:00:14
good question. but until I get an accurate time ''at the track'' with proper test equipment I know not if im near.

the worst thing would be to use this equipment and be a second or so over......then what does that mean! lol but until I get some actual results I cant say.
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 28 October 2015, 19:52:36
Ok, before we move on from the transmission.....

If it has any slip at all the transmission will lunch itself as per kev's post. BUT would any wear in the transmission cause power loss. I don't know if the sump has a magnet but I would expect after 15 years there would be metal shavings. . . As I've proved the engine hasn't worn and is working exactly right. . . Could this wear cause acceleration loss (wear as opposed to slip) ???
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 28 October 2015, 20:17:30
Here's summit I have just thought of  :P ;D

Would manually shifting on the auto box from 1, 2, 3 and then in to 'D' improve the 0-60? I know when flooring it from a standstill it changes at around 50 - 55 (roughly) and I often think it would be better for acceleration if it could hold on before that change. And I wonder if that's how the testers do it?

Thoughts?
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Nick W on 28 October 2015, 20:39:09
Here's summit I have just thought of  :P ;D

Would manually shifting on the auto box from 1, 2, 3 and then in to 'D' improve the 0-60? I know when flooring it from a standstill it changes at around 50 - 55 (roughly) and I often think it would be better for acceleration if it could hold on before that change. And I wonder if that's how the testers do it?

Thoughts?


Moving the gearlever won't make it physically change gear any quicker than letting it decide for itself.
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 28 October 2015, 20:46:12
Here's summit I have just thought of  :P ;D

Would manually shifting on the auto box from 1, 2, 3 and then in to 'D' improve the 0-60? I know when flooring it from a standstill it changes at around 50 - 55 (roughly) and I often think it would be better for acceleration if it could hold on before that change. And I wonder if that's how the testers do it?

Thoughts?


Moving the gearlever won't make it physically change gear any quicker than letting it decide for itself.

No, I appreciate that. But you can hold on to gears longer and avoid the change up just before hitting 60. Assuming your gear changes were good then this would reduce the time, no?
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Broomies Mate on 29 October 2015, 03:48:28
Webby, lock it in 1st and boot the 'dangle berries' off it.  It'll either (depending on software) change up properly, or reduce throttle to 70ish% to save the box.

I'm gonna guess it'll change up and drive normally.
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 29 October 2015, 03:53:29
Webby, lock it in 1st and boot the 'dangle berries' off it.  It'll either (depending on software) change up properly, or reduce throttle to 70ish% to save the box.

I'm gonna guess it'll change up and drive normally.

if you lock my 5 series in 1st, it'll change up, if you floor it.

Omega, it'll stay in 1st, and bounce off the red line!!! ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Broomies Mate on 29 October 2015, 04:15:18
Webby, lock it in 1st and boot the 'dangle berries' off it.  It'll either (depending on software) change up properly, or reduce throttle to 70ish% to save the box.

I'm gonna guess it'll change up and drive normally.

if you lock my 5 series in 1st, it'll change up, if you floor it.

Omega, it'll stay in 1st, and bounce off the red line!!! ;D

Really?  I know the FWD Vx boxes will just bounce off the limiter, but in my experience (I cant test it, I dont drive one anymore) the AR25/35 will change up.

The e39 (I'm going to guess it has the same tranny as yours James)..... Yes, when you knock the stick into 'Manual'...... a useless thing, same as on the Saab.  It changes up and down when it wants to anyway!
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Mr.OmegaMan on 29 October 2015, 05:29:35
Webby, lock it in 1st and boot the 'dangle berries' off it.  It'll either (depending on software) change up properly, or reduce throttle to 70ish% to save the box.

I'm gonna guess it'll change up and drive normally.

if you lock my 5 series in 1st, it'll change up, if you floor it.

Omega, it'll stay in 1st, and bounce off the red line!!! ;D

Aye what James said :o  ;D

If it's in 2nd it moves between 1 & 2 it doesn't stay in 2nd or if your in 3rd it'll move between 1,2,3 etc.
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 29 October 2015, 07:28:06
Ok, so shifting manually won't help then  ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Diamond Black Geezer on 29 October 2015, 09:28:31
I had this idea a while back, given that the gearchange is effectively just a switch, and so converting the steering wheel radio buttons to turn into a kind of tiptronic gearchange, (nice idea, chronic ar5e to do it in practice  ::) ) however, the fact that the box will only change up when it wants to, as said above, '2' gives you choice of only 1 and 2, and so on... (contrary to popular belief, you don't just chuck an auto gearbox into 'D' and forget, you are supposed hold gears if required anticipating the road conditions ahead, saying ...

"Ahoi-hoi, there apears to be a hill, I'll wager my fine automobile shall attempt to change up a gear just as we start on this veritable incline, then realise we're on a hill, then change back down, and again, down another gear to aid acceleration. Well, bless my soul, that would be most unfortuitous, I should prefer to remain in this gear for the time being, lest my journey to the top hat emporium be lengthened."

or words to that effect  ;) :D


Of course no-one does, and in reality autoboxes, especially the most modern ones have so many gears and are so quick to react to changing engine stress levels that you never notice you're temporarily in the wrong gear.

Given AR25s aren't worth a damn penny, have you considered getting a spare box, higher mileage, no fluid change, etc... but using it as a sacrificial box, so ragging the nuts off it, take it to 4k or whatever before releasing the brake, and basically hurting it criminally, to get the best acceleration, knowing it's only going in the bin at the end of the day. That's what any Auto maker does anyway for 0-60 tests. The car they use for the 0-60 doesn't exactly go in the museum as a minter, they're ragged to death.  :)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 29 October 2015, 18:36:54
thanks for that DBG... tiptronic omega  :o you may be on to summat mate!!  :y

I'm still a touch confused (apologies) why you couldn't start off from 1, hold until the red line, change to 2, hold that til the red line etc etc? but anyways ill bow to everyones superior knowledge on the subject  ;D

is it entirely possible that to get a better time all I needed to do was to be more abusive to my gearbox and hold it at higher revs when ''brake torquing'' or whatever its called???? I think I did approx. 2000-2500.

if that's the case then my only option is to do what you say DBG and get a spare box!!!

but just before that are we as a group POSITIVE that wear in the gearbox wouldn't affect acceleration? cos I'm going to bet me ballsif I looked in the pan the magnet would have some ''build up'' on it! lol
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 29 October 2015, 18:49:08
And one other thing while I think of it and I cant remember if I mentioned it  ::).........

I do have an exhaust leak at the fannymould but ONLY on start up. after a few mins of running its gone and the car runs sweet. I trust that because the heat is obviously ''closing up the leak'' then an exhaust manifold leak shouldn't be considered when looking for problems as the leak goes when its warmed up and that's when I do all my testing. agreed???
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Diamond Black Geezer on 30 October 2015, 15:21:00
Right, put simply, yes, holding the gears will enable the car to rev to literally the rev limiter, and won't change up. (unless, as has been suggested, in etreme case the box will actually protect itself and change up anyway)

but

that's what sport mode does anyway. It changes up at the point of peak power, that's why it's designed, and what it's designed for. Don't forget that the box invariably takes a second to change up anyway, so even if you do wait until the optimum, perfect time to change up a gear, I'd have thought you'll knock the lever...one....two....then the box will change up. At that point I'd surmise you're probably at the rev limiter, anyway, and dropped of the peak of the power curve. I would simply love to try this on my car but, well, no.  :D Perhaps on the 2.0litre ex-taxi I just bought for the panels, but I won't be punishing my poor old girl like that any time soon, hehe.

However, no-one knows anything until someone tries, and experiments, so hence my thoughts about a 'sacrificial' gearbox. Enabling you to try such things.

Sport mode makes, in theory the perfect time to change up. As I say, though, feel free to experiment with holding the gears manually, just do it on a gearbox you don't need to get you to work every day  :y Also another thought, as you mention the magnet in the 'box... worth perhaps cleaning the magnet completely, then ragging the box, then upon you finishing/the box exploding, re-check the magnet. Be interesting to see how much has been 'filed' off the gears in the tests.


Also, do the manifold leak; however, this should't be affecting your times, in my personal opinion. 
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: tigers_gonads on 30 October 2015, 16:14:38
A company called Race logic in the late 80's used to make a aftermarket kit for iirc, BMW's which tapped into the gearboxes ecu and gave you the option of manually shifting your slushbox via 2 buttons on the steering wheel  :-\
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 01 November 2015, 18:15:33
Ok, I now feel able to explain the gearbox issue (sorry been more concerned about me cam belt)

Anyways I was with the apprentice picking a car up and I drove in my car. He asked me to floor it so I did. It felt like it dropped one cog and was disappointing. I did it again and it did that satisfying girding of the loins and flew!

Now. Both times were around 40mph. So why would the car react different each time?

Obviously this is on an aside to the 0-60 dash. But perhaps is a clue in to a potential gearbox issue?
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Broomies Mate on 01 November 2015, 23:12:16
Ok, I now feel able to explain the gearbox issue (sorry been more concerned about me cam belt)

Anyways I was with the apprentice picking a car up and I drove in my car. He asked me to floor it so I did. It felt like it dropped one cog and was disappointing. I did it again and it did that satisfying girding of the loins and flew!

Now. Both times were around 40mph. So why would the car react different each time?

Obviously this is on an aside to the 0-60 dash. But perhaps is a clue in to a potential gearbox issue?

The Transmission ECU is adaptive, so it will learn how you have driven and for certain parameters, it'll adapt to that driving style.  The second time you dropped the hammer, the car knew you wanted it to sit-up-and-beg.

Other things affect gearchange too, such as incline of the road.  Sadly, it's not an 'exact science'.
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Diamond Black Geezer on 02 November 2015, 08:18:22
I've had it many a time myself.


To be honest I wish it stayed in 'rally mode' all the time, as sometimes you do want to just go nuts for a few seconds only, but when you floor it you get nothing, just a bit more noise. It can be very disappointing, to be honest. But, as said by Broomies, once the car 'knows your intentions' (and don't forget the sport button, that's crucial, otherwise you're not going above 3krpm, and cant access any of the power) you'll be fine.
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 02 November 2015, 11:10:32
Thanks guys. both times were with the sport button on. but basically this happens sometimes on all of them and is perfectly normal?

as you say dbg..I want it in rally mode all the time  ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Diamond Black Geezer on 02 November 2015, 11:24:48
Unfortunately, I am spending more money on petrol than I am on food, at present. Daft as it sounds, given I choose to drive a 19 year old 2.5 V6 car, but I'm trying to get the best economy I can, of late.

Being run into & fighting to get even a reasonable sum from the insurers, several big bills, a few (unpaid) sick days off work is crippling me a bit lately. I've got a set of G cams, divider, and long plenum and the promise of some 2.6 manifolds all waiting, but no time or money to do an upgrade which will no doubt affect my fuel economy anyway. My poor car looks like an advert for the scrappage scheme right now. :(
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 02 November 2015, 11:45:01
Right, put simply, yes, holding the gears will enable the car to rev to literally the rev limiter, and won't change up. (unless, as has been suggested, in etreme case the box will actually protect itself and change up anyway)

but

that's what sport mode does anyway. It changes up at the point of peak power, that's why it's designed, and what it's designed for. Don't forget that the box invariably takes a second to change up anyway, so even if you do [/i]wait until the optimum, perfect time to change up a gear, I'd have thought you'll knock the lever...one....two....then the box will change up. At that point I'd surmise you're probably at the rev limiter, anyway, and dropped of the peak of the power curve. I would simply love to try this on my car but, well, no.  :D Perhaps on the 2.0litre ex-taxi I just bought for the panels, but I won't be punishing my poor old girl like that any time soon, hehe.

However, no-one knows anything until someone tries, and experiments, so hence my thoughts about a 'sacrificial' gearbox. Enabling you to try such things.

Sport mode makes, in theory the perfect time to change up. As I say, though, feel free to experiment with holding the gears manually, just do it on a gearbox you don't need to get you to work every day  :y Also another thought, as you mention the magnet in the 'box... worth perhaps cleaning the magnet completely, then ragging the box, then upon you finishing/the box exploding, re-check the magnet. Be interesting to see how much has been 'filed' off the gears in the tests.


Also, do the manifold leak; however, this should't be affecting your times, in my personal opinion.

What Mr Bear needs is one of those new fangled  double clutch Omega. :y


...........and lose 100lbs. :)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 02 November 2015, 17:31:33
Unfortunately, I am spending more money on petrol than I am on food, at present. Daft as it sounds, given I choose to drive a 19 year old 2.5 V6 car, but I'm trying to get the best economy I can, of late.

Being run into & fighting to get even a reasonable sum from the insurers, several big bills, a few (unpaid) sick days off work is crippling me a bit lately. I've got a set of G cams, divider, and long plenum and the promise of some 2.6 manifolds all waiting, but no time or money to do an upgrade which will no doubt affect my fuel economy anyway. My poor car looks like an advert for the scrappage scheme right now. :(

sorry to read about that mate. id hate that :( but stick with her mate  :y
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: TheBoy on 02 November 2015, 17:56:59
I own neither underpowered, over-thirsty cars anymore, but I owned several 3.0's and one 3.2.  Maybe I had a belter of a 3.2, but in real-life driving, the 3.2 is the quicker of the variants.  :y

Was your 3.0 made out of steel or that <cough!> ultra light, weight-saving material that's brown in colour and has the secret chemical formula Fe2O3.nH2O?  :-X

Not really getting why you are asking, but apart from a few bubbles here and there, and the odd arch or two, none of my Omega's have been rotten.  Come to think of it, the latest one (the 3.2) suffered the worst, but nothing to cry about.
Ahh.. I wasn't asking about yours. ;)

No worries.

I take it you were asking TB, who has delusions about the 3.2.  I reckon he needs to drive one for more than 5 minutes.  ::)

*Awaits STEMO* "You cant drive an omega for more than 5 minutes.... it'll break down"
I think the RustySilver bullet must be really light by now. :-X
Not with the fat bastid in the seat  :-[
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: TheBoy on 02 November 2015, 18:00:54
Webby, lock it in 1st and boot the 'dangle berries' off it.  It'll either (depending on software) change up properly, or reduce throttle to 70ish% to save the box.

I'm gonna guess it'll change up and drive normally.
As others have confirmed, the Omega will bang off the rev limiter all day long.

Yup, I shat me pants the first time it did it (in 3rd), I thought it had let go....
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: TheBoy on 02 November 2015, 18:04:07
Ok, I now feel able to explain the gearbox issue (sorry been more concerned about me cam belt)

Anyways I was with the apprentice picking a car up and I drove in my car. He asked me to floor it so I did. It felt like it dropped one cog and was disappointing. I did it again and it did that satisfying girding of the loins and flew!

Now. Both times were around 40mph. So why would the car react different each time?

Obviously this is on an aside to the 0-60 dash. But perhaps is a clue in to a potential gearbox issue?
Around 40? 35?

The box won't drop a peg if it thinks it will need to change up again almost immediately, as it will actually be slower.

Change points on full kickdown on 3.0/3.2 are 45mph, 85mph and a shade under 130mph.  I'd suggest anything within 7 or 8mph of that will not cause a change down.
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 02 November 2015, 18:08:46
Ok, I now feel able to explain the gearbox issue (sorry been more concerned about me cam belt)

Anyways I was with the apprentice picking a car up and I drove in my car. He asked me to floor it so I did. It felt like it dropped one cog and was disappointing. I did it again and it did that satisfying girding of the loins and flew!

Now. Both times were around 40mph. So why would the car react different each time?

Obviously this is on an aside to the 0-60 dash. But perhaps is a clue in to a potential gearbox issue?
Around 40? 35?

The box won't drop a peg if it thinks it will need to change up again almost immediately, as it will actually be slower.

Change points on full kickdown on 3.0/3.2 are 45mph, 85mph and a shade under 130mph.  I'd suggest anything within 7 or 8mph of that will not cause a change down.

yeah around that TB.....so its dependent on speed. that makes total sense. as said I was around that speed.  :y
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 02 November 2015, 18:47:43
so let me just get this right......so was cruising AROUND 40. I then floor it. and cos it knows it will change up soon it wont drop a cog, but will just accelerate.

I then slow down to around 30-33ish and it drops a cog.

this is normal, right?
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: TheBoy on 02 November 2015, 20:33:09
so let me just get this right......so was cruising AROUND 40. I then floor it. and cos it knows it will change up soon it wont drop a cog, but will just accelerate.

I then slow down to around 30-33ish and it drops a cog.

this is normal, right?
Not sure of speeds on a 2.5 (lower geared than 3.0), but yes, that is the idea.
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 03 November 2015, 19:31:02
Thanks for that tb. That makes total sense and at least i can discount this as a problem  :y
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Rods2 on 03 November 2015, 22:34:49
Measuring 0-60 with a ballistic pendulum: http://www.wired.com/2015/11/ballistic-pendulums-are-as-awesome-as-they-sound/?mbid=social_twitter (http://www.wired.com/2015/11/ballistic-pendulums-are-as-awesome-as-they-sound/?mbid=social_twitter) What could possibly go wrong? ::) ::) ::) ::) :o :o :o :o ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 08 November 2015, 16:40:04
So.......do we have a definitive figure, Mr Bear? :)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 08 November 2015, 16:43:42
We need to obtain an OOF accelerometer.

And I need 4 new tyres  :'(
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: 05omegav6 on 08 November 2015, 19:08:59
We need to obtain an OOF accelerometer.

And I need 4 new tyres  :'(
Did TB better your time then... ::)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Nick W on 08 November 2015, 19:12:42
We need to obtain an OOF accelerometer.



I've still got one.
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 08 November 2015, 19:25:30
We need to obtain an OOF accelerometer.



I've still got one.

How much you want for it Nick? If you're selling that is  :)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 08 November 2015, 19:27:44
We need to obtain an OOF accelerometer.

And I need 4 new tyres  :'(
Did TB better your time then... ::)

Lol no I Told him he needed to sort hi headlights out so he did that while I stripped the car down  :y
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: tidla on 08 November 2015, 23:15:43
Carnt be arsed to go all this thread but..

3.0 changes up from first at 55mph?
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: TheBoy on 09 November 2015, 17:33:34
We need to obtain an OOF accelerometer.

And I need 4 new tyres  :'(
Did TB better your time then... ::)
Gixer led me astray the night before, so no quick driving and high revving engines for me yesterday  :-[
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 09 November 2015, 17:45:59
We need to obtain an OOF accelerometer.

And I need 4 new tyres  :'(
Did TB better your time then... ::)
Gixer led me astray the night before, so no quick driving and high revving engines for me yesterday  :-[

We both looked and felt like sh*t yesterday  ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 10 November 2015, 19:52:40
Ok so getting back on track (no pun  ;D) there are no real options to test performance in the winter. The next Santa pod rwyb day is in January and obviously still depends on the weather.

This should give me plenty of time to get an accelerometer.

One wonders if an accelerometer differs from an app you can get on the phone. But either way, as opti says, I'll need to get this to time it PROPERLY instead of messing around with watching videos and trying to time them  ;D

In the mean time a,so I may take the opportunity to get the transmission fluid analysed. This can hopefully point out if there's any wear in the tranny that may affect performance. But mainly cos I'm interested in seeing what such a report is capable of finding
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: 05omegav6 on 10 November 2015, 20:08:06
Could someone please change the title to...

 "How I became mentally ill obsessing over why my car is a gnats minge slower than the random imaginary time printed in the brochure in 41 pages, or less."

 ::)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 10 November 2015, 20:08:53
Also, and I can't believe I'm asking this, but what were the OE brand / style of tyres that you'd have got with your brand new box fresh omega?

Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: 05omegav6 on 10 November 2015, 20:14:43
I'll tell you in a mo, but believe it were either Continental or Bridgestone...

Of course if you want genuine results you should fit a set of unused spare wheels... still wearing their 15year old rubber...

That said, the results would be skewed as they're a different size to the ones tested...  :-\

Oh what's a bear to do ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 10 November 2015, 20:19:10


Oh what's a bear to do ;D

Become mentally unhinged of course!  ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 10 November 2015, 20:21:55
I'll tell you in a mo, but believe it were either Continental or Bridgestone...

Of course if you want genuine results you should fit a set of unused spare wheels... still wearing their 15year old rubber...

That said, the results would be skewed as they're a different size to the ones tested...  :-\

Oh what's a bear to do ;D

 ;D

The thing to do is to match the tyres they had on the day of testing. . . So get searching for me  ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: biggriffin on 10 November 2015, 20:24:38
Michelin. On plod.
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 10 November 2015, 20:29:23
Any particular type of michelins? As I'm thinking there are lots of different variants
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Nick W on 10 November 2015, 20:41:52
We need to obtain an OOF accelerometer.



I've still got one.

How much you want for it Nick? If you're selling that is  :)


How does £100 sound? Race Technology AP22, which does a load more stuff than measure 0-60 times. You'll be able to entertain us how much G force your car can pull on your favourite roundabout.
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: TheBoy on 10 November 2015, 20:43:18
I believe the last ones were Michelin PS2/3
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: 05omegav6 on 10 November 2015, 20:43:52
Michelin. On plod.
TVP only fitted Goodyears to mine if the service printout is to be believed :-\
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: STEMO on 10 November 2015, 20:46:07
No good getting these modern tyres. You'll have to ask for "the tyres they used to fit 15 years ago". Good luck with that.
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 10 November 2015, 21:05:07
We need to obtain an OOF accelerometer.



I've still got one.

How much you want for it Nick? If you're selling that is  :)


How does £100 sound? Race Technology AP22, which does a load more stuff than measure 0-60 times. You'll be able to entertain us how much G force your car can pull on your favourite roundabout.

Lol thanks nick. I'll have a good think about it and let you know if that's ok
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 10 November 2015, 21:06:21
I believe the last ones were Michelin PS2/3

The last ones? As in what they fitted to the last line of omegas?
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: 05omegav6 on 10 November 2015, 22:29:29
I believe the last ones were Michelin PS2/3

The last ones? As in what they fitted to the last line of omegas?
Brochure specs are non specific, but poorly photoshopped pics imply Michelin Pilot HX across the board :y

Here's a 16" one... http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/225-55-16-Michelin-Pilot-HX-/331699846241?hash=item4d3ad9fc61:g:iZIAAOSw14xWOkcD

And a 17" one... http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/235-45-17-H-Michelin-Pilot-HX-x1-Single-Tyre-Free-Delivery-Fitting-/181921340784?hash=item2a5b5b5d70:g:LKYAAOSw~gRV6CjI

 :y
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: YZ250 on 10 November 2015, 23:18:07
I believe the last ones were Michelin PS2/3

The last ones? As in what they fitted to the last line of omegas?

I bought my Elite when it was only a few months old and it definitely had Michelin Pilot Sports on if that helps.  :y
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 11 November 2015, 18:50:01
good stuff lads. so Michelin PS 2 or 3  :y
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: BazaJT on 11 November 2015, 18:54:11
Anyone offering odds on how many pages this "laid to rest" thread will run to before it actually is laid to rest? ;D ::)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 11 November 2015, 18:56:59
Anyone offering odds on how many pages this "laid to rest" thread will run to before it actually is laid to rest? ;D ::)

Well, we have around 3 months 'til the next RWYB so that's ample time to get to over 100 pages imo  :-\ :y
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: T.m.f on 11 November 2015, 21:02:35
Do we know what brand of petrol was also used  ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Nick W on 11 November 2015, 21:25:18


The thing to do is to match the tyres they had on the day of testing. . . So get searching for me  ;D


Whatever next, ensuring that your hairstyle and attire match the original roadtester's?
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Diamond Black Geezer on 12 November 2015, 09:01:21
Do we know what brand of petrol was also used  ;D


Fair point - Vauxhall, presumably, wouldn't have used higher octane, as it didn't exist (or did it?)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Diamond Black Geezer on 12 November 2015, 09:02:12


The thing to do is to match the tyres they had on the day of testing. . . So get searching for me  ;D


Whatever next, ensuring that your hairstyle and attire match the original roadtester's?


I assume Mr The Bear was completely nude for the test, possibly even had a 'trim' beforehand for extra weight-saving.  :)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Diamond Black Geezer on 12 November 2015, 12:19:19
If we look here... just a direct comparison for the saloon and estate omegas, show a half-second difference in 0-60 times, for a 38kg weight penalty. Just shows what a 'few' stone can do if you're really trying to squeeze the tenths of a second out... and also how an empty tank, nowt in the boot and a skinny driver can falsely give a better result.

That's why I always only ever have about 5 litres in my fuel tank, anyway!  :)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 12 November 2015, 13:36:34
Although the estate also has an aero penalty as a well as a weight one (weight is key at launch but, as speed increases aero quickly takes over)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Diamond Black Geezer on 12 November 2015, 13:54:21
Indeed  :y if I remember my aero lectures, as speed doubles air resistance increases 4-fold, which surprises a lot of people.

However, any appreciable aero resistance only really starts to kick in around 50mph plus, so hopefully any aero penalty is only a relatively smaller amount, as on a 0-60 test you are just 'scraping the bottom' of the 'aero penalty zone'.

If, for instance, there's 5 kg of air pushing on a car doing 30 mph, that's (I think!) turned into 60kg at 90mph. So Mark's right, aero plays a big part.

Just in case Webby Schumacher is wondering about starting up a 'what's my top speed' thread... we got taught that - contrary to popular belief -  something like a 4 ton block in the boot of a car will affect the top speed by about 1mph, that's it. It will take a lonnng time to get there, of course, but the real gains in improving a car's top speed is to be found in the aero side. Bugatti Supersport is a perfect example. All that fancy malarky with closed-off rear window, NACA ducts etc isn't poncy styling, it's vital to get the top speed up by a mere 10mph/or whatever is it, over standard Veyron.  :)


Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 12 November 2015, 14:37:12
Key issue with the estate is the turbulent air at the rear which increases the drag, given the shape I suspect drag will kick in quite a bit below 50mph  :y
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Diamond Black Geezer on 12 November 2015, 15:26:46
Hear what you're saying, you're right, of course; but there's turbulent air coming off the back of any moving vehicle. Best figures I can find is Omega saloons at 0.29Cd, the estate 0.32Cd, (though something tells me those figures aren't quite right  :-\)

So roughly there's 10% difference between the saloon and estate versions in Cd, with the effective air pressure/force acting on the front quadrupling with every doubling in speed. Or, if there's that theoretical 5kgs at 30mph, which would be 5.5kg on the estate, that's 66 kg at 90mph, or 4kg at 60mph. Or an effective, theoretical 3kg extra 'weight'/force at 50mph.

Not disagreeing with you, because, of course air resistance is acting on moving objects all the time, otherwise the famous demonstration of dropping a hammer and a feather on the moon wouldn't have gone the way physics professors said/knew it would. Definitely, weight affects acceleration at lower speeds, aero at higher. I'm just going by my old Aero Engineer / Lecturer's feelings at what speed air resistance starts to become 'substantial' but of course one person's idea of 'substantial' vs another's can vary massively, it's opinion. Like I say, can't say you're wrong, as it's a grey area, there is no black and white line where air resistance doesn't affect things. (well, being stationary, I suppose, haha!)

Don't know if the saloons and estates had different diffs to counteract things, but the top speed difference is only between 2 and 4% between saloons and estate, too.  :)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 12 November 2015, 18:07:04


The thing to do is to match the tyres they had on the day of testing. . . So get searching for me  ;D


Whatever next, ensuring that your hairstyle and attire match the original roadtester's?

lol while that is amusing, I don't think matching tyres is being particularly pedantic /anal........ after all, they are the things that connect us to the road and are important.....plus I've only ever driven on budget ditchfinders.......fancy a decent set  :y

Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 12 November 2015, 18:09:15
....and high octane fuel wasn't used in original testing as you rightly estimated DBG  :y
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 12 November 2015, 18:11:40
PPS, just a reminder that for testing purposes originally....it matters not whether you have a full tank, half a tank whatever.....as long as it has 200kg over kerb weight.

example...

if you race on half a tank of fuel (roughly 25kg) then you only have to find another 175kg. your body weight will be one factor.... then whatever you can chuck in to make the weight up  :y
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: STEMO on 12 November 2015, 20:55:10
PPS, just a reminder that for testing purposes originally....it matters not whether you have a full tank, half a tank whatever.....as long as it has 200kg over kerb weight.

example...

if you race on half a tank of fuel (roughly 25kg) then you only have to find another 175kg. My body weight will cover that easily  :y
Yep.  ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 20 November 2015, 18:15:21
So i have a question.

firstly I have details on exacxtly how I plan to do the 0-60.

but on topic but from a different angle.....

who out of you lot believe these figures? many have thrown words around like ''made up figures from a book''. and I thought no,no that's not right....they have to be correct. but after vw and ''dieselgate'' and last night hearing on tv that Vauxhall are blaming non-dealer repairs to buttons on the climate control panel as the reason for the zafiras exploding  ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? then im not sure these should bebelieved anyway.

what do u gays I mean guys think?
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: STEMO on 20 November 2015, 18:37:30
So i have a question.

firstly I have details on exacxtly how I plan to do the 0-60.

but on topic but from a different angle.....

who out of you lot believe these figures? many have thrown words around like ''made up figures from a book''. and I thought no,no that's not right....they have to be correct. but after vw and ''dieselgate'' and last night hearing on tv that Vauxhall are blaming non-dealer repairs to buttons on the climate control panel as the reason for the zafiras exploding  ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? then im not sure these should bebelieved anyway.

what do u gays I mean guys think?
Eff off, Webby.  :)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: 05omegav6 on 20 November 2015, 18:49:49
So i have a question.

firstly I have details on exacxtly how I plan to do the 0-60.

but on topic but from a different angle.....

who out of you lot believe these figures? many have thrown words around like ''made up figures from a book''. and I thought no,no that's not right....they have to be correct. but after vw and ''dieselgate'' and last night hearing on tv that Vauxhall are blaming non-dealer repairs to buttons on the climate control panel as the reason for the zafiras exploding  ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? then im not sure these should bebelieved anyway.

what do u gays I mean guys think?
To be clear, your 60,000 mile fourteen year old car is a quarter of a second slower to 60 than some potentially imaginary number, as imagined in a test in a different country, in a different decade, in weather and atmospheric conditions that you can never repeat using tyres you can no longer buy...

And after 43 pages of not quite accepting this, you're genuinely asking for an honest opinion :o

Whilst I admire your tenacity, and alot of what you have discovered has been quite interesting, perhaps it is time to accept your number and move on :-\
That's very succinct of you Stemo ::)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: STEMO on 20 November 2015, 18:57:02
Yeah....that's wot I meant  ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: henryd on 20 November 2015, 22:15:13
Yeah....that's wot I meant  ;D

 ;D ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 21 November 2015, 14:44:02
I think you're right stemo. Maybe I got a bit obsessed by it.

But as you say, I think there's a lot of interesting info found from me and provided by you morons  :)

Well, I'll plan to have a go at the time based on matching their test procedures when it gets warmer. But I think you're right in that I may have to accept whatever figure it yields  :y
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 25 November 2015, 20:58:18
I really shouldn't encourage Mr Bear with this thread.......but. ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 25 November 2015, 21:16:25
you've done it now mate.  >:( >:( >:( >:(

budget tyres. will they affect acceleration in comparison, to say the Michelin ps2's on from standard. talk to me.  :y ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: 05omegav6 on 25 November 2015, 21:31:57
you've done it now mate.  >:( >:( >:( >:(

budget tyres. will they affect acceleration in comparison, to say the Michelin ps2's on from standard. talk to me.  :y ;D ;D ;D
They could add as much as two seconds to your 0-60 time and 100 feet to your 60-0 distance.
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: EMD on 26 November 2015, 16:04:05
Of course you must wear the correct 0-60 costume  ;D

(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTJUwIbCQGsbk74myoZsPFUUU1f3blv5S4zIaoPbPXhtH-ikiC83A)

Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 27 November 2015, 23:01:54
just a word on acceleration and the autobox ''learning'' driving style I can confirm this is bang on!

I used to drive really slow. I mean really slow. clearly the 'box learned this cos when TuBi had a go in my car a couple of years back he declared ''it feels a bit down on power''. he was right.

as you should know by now I like evidence. and ive been accelerating hard consistently (when before id have accelerated slowly for the purposes of fuel consumption). I don't mean I kick down every chance I get. but every chance I get a good ''firm'' oomph on the throttle and the box is definitely dropping a gear as opposed to before where it would have got confused at my demand and gone up a gear, then down, then back up again when I backed off  ;D

anyway, ive no idea if this learning will aid a flat out standing start with wide open throttle. I doubt it. but the cars feeling really nice and sprightly in the real world now as opposed to the lethargic lump it was before when anymore than conservative driving got it all confuddled  ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Diamond Black Geezer on 01 December 2015, 09:42:12
 :) I think it re-learns every drive, which makes me wonder if it's worth giving the box a 'squirt' soon after startup, then to relax back into a more sedate style. This would thereby give a 'nicer' drive for the remainder of the trip. Can definitely confirm that after a gentle cruise, when you see a gap in traffic, when you want to move quick for any reason, the box is very glacial to respond.  :)

I wonder if the sport mode overrides this, however? ie: drive like the proverbial vicar on sunday, the box learns your style - then hit S, then floor it - will the box be a 'sluggish' version of Sport mode, or change up at the optimum times, as it's designed? I'd suggest the latter, and 'S' mode is 'S' mode, no changes, but would be interesting to know for sure.
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Gaffers on 01 December 2015, 10:10:16
Thank God you posted on this DBG, I was worried for a minute then that this thread might be confined to page 2!  ::)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Diamond Black Geezer on 01 December 2015, 10:14:15
Always on offer with a helping hand  :y
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: 05omegav6 on 01 December 2015, 18:47:21
The chap who carried out my MoT used to drive a 2.0t Scirroco with dsg... he mentioned in passing that he couldn't quite keep up with the white one, and was genuinely impressed by how quick it was compared to his wwd grotbox ;D

Probably doesn't help that the VW petrol turbo lump only produces about 2/3 the torque of the 3.2 and sends it through the wrong end, making it almost impossible to pull cleanly off a roundabout with any vigour...
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Kevin Wood on 01 December 2015, 20:02:31
Thank God you posted on this DBG, I was worried for a minute then that this thread might be confined to page 2!  ::)

Yeah, that'd be a real shame considering how well Webby has been doing "putting it to bed". ::)

 ;)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 03 December 2015, 21:20:58
:) I think it re-learns every drive, which makes me wonder if it's worth giving the box a 'squirt' soon after startup, then to relax back into a more sedate style. This would thereby give a 'nicer' drive for the remainder of the trip. Can definitely confirm that after a gentle cruise, when you see a gap in traffic, when you want to move quick for any reason, the box is very glacial to respond.  :)

I wonder if the sport mode overrides this, however? ie: drive like the proverbial vicar on sunday, the box learns your style - then hit S, then floor it - will the box be a 'sluggish' version of Sport mode, or change up at the optimum times, as it's designed? I'd suggest the latter, and 'S' mode is 'S' mode, no changes, but would be interesting to know for sure.

Well I've found some interesting things on this dbg.

I have been starting the car and leaving it to idle up to temperature and then racing it. In normal mode it now feels quite close to sports mode. However there's no getting away from the fact that being in sport mode is very fast in comparison.

I would say based on my testing that stick it in sport mode and forget how you've driven it before, the throttle response and kick downs will be just as good. Tho I may be wrong.

Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: STEMO on 03 December 2015, 21:28:42
It's a well-known fact, Webby, that every two ton sports car behaves differently, and you have to try various methods to get the best from them.  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Diamond Black Geezer on 04 December 2015, 11:27:41
Good stuff! As I'm apparently doing 11mpg of late, driving like a nun, I'm leaving performance tests for the moment  :D :D

Though the gauges are notoriously approximate, what's you're running temp, Webby, just out of interest?
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Gaffers on 04 December 2015, 14:05:57
Good stuff! As I'm apparently doing 11mpg of late

I can only wish for an mpg that good when driving kitty around town ::)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Diamond Black Geezer on 04 December 2015, 14:16:01
Really??? Ouch! Or should I say meow?
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Gaffers on 04 December 2015, 14:20:37
22 on a long run is reeeaaallly good :-[

More like 18 though ::)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 04 December 2015, 17:53:35
Good stuff! As I'm apparently doing 11mpg of late, driving like a nun, I'm leaving performance tests for the moment  :D :D

Though the gauges are notoriously approximate, what's you're running temp, Webby, just out of interest?

As you say mate they're approximate (certainly in terms of actual coolant temp.) but it stays at 85 on the motorway and then in town/stop-start driving it goes to 90. and sometimes just below 95, fans kick in, it goes back down to 85  :y
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 11 December 2015, 18:21:37
I'm not bumping this thread just to keep it on your minds but I have a genuine question.

We've discussed driving techniques and I was thinking about something the Vauxhall director (and TB mentioned also) and that's how a professional driver would be able to get the time down. poppy cock I thought, its an auto. obviously flooring it is easy, but when you do the stall approach theres potential for wheel spin, theres judging the throttle and we know from my research that the driver will do all the things possible to get the time down.

so question to you all. do you think a ''amatuer'' driver used to his car could equal or even do better in the omega than a pro could who's only driven it a handful of times. or is it a case that the pros could eak out something from an auto that us mere mortals couldn't. jyst interested in your thoughts  :y
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: STEMO on 11 December 2015, 18:23:17
You really wouldn't be interested in my thoughts, Webby. :)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: 05omegav6 on 11 December 2015, 21:17:28
You really wouldn't be interested in my thoughts, Webby. :)
Oh but he so would.. That's why he asked ::)

Still irrelevant though, as you still can't duplicate the exact climate conditions of the day/time of the original test... :-*
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: STEMO on 11 December 2015, 21:34:40
You really wouldn't be interested in my thoughts, Webby. :)
Oh but he so would.. That's why he asked ::)

Still irrelevant though, as you still can't duplicate the exact climate conditions of the day/time of the original test... :-*
And by the time they've fiddled the figures........ ;D

What a killer, Webby. You'll never duplicate the numbers, cause they never actually happened.  :(
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 12 December 2015, 20:15:17
ok, well i still plan to do the test in the next summer.

you know, perhaps the climate/humidity may make a difference.

however i think the meat and potatoes of the test is replicating the set up of the car (e.g. tyres, well maintained etc), replicating the test weight of the car, getting it timed correctly with an accelerometer, doing it on a dry and level track with zero wind and finally perfecting my driving skills to get the most out of the car.

i'm really looking forward to the results. should be a fun day out too.

on an aside i have fitted 4 budget tyres prior to ordering some PS3's next year. interestingly they have a rolling resistance rating of 'C' and a wet grip rating of 'C' also. they are really noisy though  ;D

the interesting part is that they are very easy to spin (which makes sense due to the lack of RR). However a customer ordered some PS3s for his Puma so i took the chance to look at the label...they have a rating of 'G'. So i presume that even though the resistance is more it actually aids traction....especially knowing how easy these 'C' rating ones are to spin  :y
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: TheBoy on 12 December 2015, 20:18:34
Webby - those new tyre ratings mean absolutely the square root of eff all. Simply ignore them.
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Nick W on 12 December 2015, 20:40:13
ok, well i still plan to do the test in the next summer.

you know, perhaps the climate/humidity may make a difference.

however i think the meat and potatoes of the test is replicating the set up of the car (e.g. tyres, well maintained etc), replicating the test weight of the car, getting it timed correctly with an accelerometer, doing it on a dry and level track with zero wind and finally perfecting my driving skills to get the most out of the car.

i'm really looking forward to the results. should be a fun day out too.




You wouldn't manage all that in a day if you had the entire track to yourself. And all you're going to achieve is a baseline for your car. But you're right, it has the potential to be fun. In a boring sort of way as you're doing it with a very slow car.


I still have the accelerometer if you're interested.
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 13 December 2015, 09:33:54
ok, well i still plan to do the test in the next summer.

you know, perhaps the climate/humidity may make a difference.

however i think the meat and potatoes of the test is replicating the set up of the car (e.g. tyres, well maintained etc), replicating the test weight of the car, getting it timed correctly with an accelerometer, doing it on a dry and level track with zero wind and finally perfecting my driving skills to get the most out of the car.

i'm really looking forward to the results. should be a fun day out too.




You wouldn't manage all that in a day if you had the entire track to yourself. And all you're going to achieve is a baseline for your car. But you're right, it has the potential to be fun. In a boring sort of way as you're doing it with a very slow car.


I still have the accelerometer if you're interested.

Yep I've had a good think and I'd like to buy it nick  :y is the new year ok to pay for it due to funds and Xmas etc?? U know I'm a bit thick, even more so with computer stuff. Is it a turn on and go sorta thing or much messing about with computers and such?

Lol yeah your right. It's never going to set the world on fire for speed. But as I've mentioned before it's really about testing theories in the real world and hopefully get some good results.

As stemo mentioned.....all this is probably pointless if they just made the figures up anyway  ;D

Tb, why do you say the labels are 'dangle berries'? I feel a tale of sideways action coming on  ;D I got to say that I was very surprised they had such a good rating for being so cheap. So you may be right in that they just make it up  ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: TheBoy on 13 December 2015, 09:48:36
Tb, why do you say the labels are 'dangle berries'? I feel a tale of sideways action coming on  ;D I got to say that I was very surprised they had such a good rating for being so cheap. So you may be right in that they just make it up  ;D
Its tested almost with the release compound still in place, and under conditions that appear to be completely irrelevant to actual usage.

I can tell you from a £700 mistake on the (wet grip) A rated SC5 that they are absolute, utter, borderline dangerous shite. Far worse than the C rated Heinz 57 budgets that came off (and we know that budgets invariably have poor wet performance).

The A rated GY F1 A2 also mediocre for wet and dry grip.

The well known, lethal, deadly Autogrip FS10x range actually start out well as a reasonable budget tyre, but once about a third worn (so about 5-6mm left) always turn into something that will kill you if it detects rain within 1000 miles.


Its not really possible to label tyres, as chrisgixer found when he tried doing a survey on here, as a tyre's characteristics often do change over its life, and people's expectations vary from "MOT passing, black and round" to "something that actually works"
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 13 December 2015, 10:05:20

you know, perhaps the climate/humidity may make a difference.


One thing I don't think you've considered Webby is altitude.  As we know the higher the altitude the thinner the air gets and those who have driven a car/truck at high altitudes will know that the performance is affected. So I think you need to find out what the altitude is at the original test site and conduct your test at the same or near altitude.  :y

But I think you need to be careful Webby as I heard of obsessions like this leading to divorce!  ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Broomies Mate on 13 December 2015, 14:06:46
But I think you need to be careful Webby as I heard of obsessions like this leading to divorce!  ;D

How would I obtain an obsession????   ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: 05omegav6 on 13 December 2015, 14:11:41
But I think you need to be careful Webby as I heard of obsessions like this leading to divorce!  ;D

How would I obtain an obsession????   ;D
45 pages of inspiration here ;)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 13 December 2015, 15:30:30
Tb, why do you say the labels are 'dangle berries'? I feel a tale of sideways action coming on  ;D I got to say that I was very surprised they had such a good rating for being so cheap. So you may be right in that they just make it up  ;D
Its tested almost with the release compound still in place, and under conditions that appear to be completely irrelevant to actual usage.

I can tell you from a £700 mistake on the (wet grip) A rated SC5 that they are absolute, utter, borderline dangerous shite. Far worse than the C rated Heinz 57 budgets that came off (and we know that budgets invariably have poor wet performance).

The A rated GY F1 A2 also mediocre for wet and dry grip.

The well known, lethal, deadly Autogrip FS10x range actually start out well as a reasonable budget tyre, but once about a third worn (so about 5-6mm left) always turn into something that will kill you if it detects rain within 1000 miles.


Its not really possible to label tyres, as chrisgixer found when he tried doing a survey on here, as a tyre's characteristics often do change over its life, and people's expectations vary from "MOT passing, black and round" to "something that actually works"

Really good point about them changing over the life time  :y
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 13 December 2015, 15:32:23

you know, perhaps the climate/humidity may make a difference.


One thing I don't think you've considered Webby is altitude.  As we know the higher the altitude the thinner the air gets and those who have driven a car/truck at high altitudes will know that the performance is affected. So I think you need to find out what the altitude is at the original test site and conduct your test at the same or near altitude.  :y

But I think you need to be careful Webby as I heard of obsessions like this leading to divorce!  ;D

Already ahead of you tig  ;D

Original test site is 89m above sea level. Santa pod is only around 50ft above. So yes there is a difference. I've struggled to find out how much this will affect it tho
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Broomies Mate on 13 December 2015, 15:34:01

you know, perhaps the climate/humidity may make a difference.


One thing I don't think you've considered Webby is altitude.  As we know the higher the altitude the thinner the air gets and those who have driven a car/truck at high altitudes will know that the performance is affected. So I think you need to find out what the altitude is at the original test site and conduct your test at the same or near altitude.  :y

But I think you need to be careful Webby as I heard of obsessions like this leading to divorce!  ;D

Already ahead of you tig  ;D

Original test site is 89m above sea level. Santa pod is only around 50ft above. So yes there is a difference. I've struggled to find out how much this will affect it tho

Probably about the same difference as you only having 6 sausages on your fried breakfast instead of the usual 8!  :P
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 13 December 2015, 15:36:57
One thing out of interest. . . . Will an incorrect gel set up affect acceleration? Mine is bang on as I last had mine done by wim and nothing seems to have changed when I put it on the 4 wheel aligned at work.

Obviously incorrect toe would create I presume a large amount of resistance but I was thinking more the camber and castor. Any thoughts
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 13 December 2015, 15:37:53

you know, perhaps the climate/humidity may make a difference.


One thing I don't think you've considered Webby is altitude.  As we know the higher the altitude the thinner the air gets and those who have driven a car/truck at high altitudes will know that the performance is affected. So I think you need to find out what the altitude is at the original test site and conduct your test at the same or near altitude.  :y

But I think you need to be careful Webby as I heard of obsessions like this leading to divorce!  ;D

Already ahead of you tig  ;D

Original test site is 89m above sea level. Santa pod is only around 50ft above. So yes there is a difference. I've struggled to find out how much this will affect it tho

Probably about the same difference as you only having 6 sausages on your fried breakfast instead of the usual 8!  :P

 ;D I'll be weighing myself the morning of the test!  :P ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 20 December 2015, 14:40:53
May struggle to find Michelin ps3's for the testing according to our tyre supplier. Anyone know a place that sells them.

Michelin, of their current stock, recommend the 'primacy' for my car. Are these similar tyres to the ps3's?

U may say this is pointless but I'm doing it nonetheless  :P ;)

They open a RWYB in January. I hope the weather is clear for that day. By then I should have my accelerometer (thanks nickW), ill have some nice michelins (I have always wanted a decent set to try out anyway) I'll have the exact test weight according to Vauxhall and it will be on a grippy/level track.

If I am to make predictions I don't think my car will do the time with the extra weight in the car that Vauxhall say they add to the test (remember they say they add 200kg to the kerb weight to do their test). I have had time to ponder this extra weight and I think it's 'dangle berries'. However it will be interesting to see my times WITH the weight and I plan to do some runs with all extra weight ditched! I may even get my slender buddy to do the test for me. I reckon it will do the time with spare removed, ballast removed etc. but we'll see.

 :y
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 20 December 2015, 18:35:22
And can we also have a discussion on how many RPMs to chuck on when holding the brake in the auto?
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 20 December 2015, 18:37:05
And can we also have a discussion on how many RPMs to chuck on when holding the brake in the auto?

I'm presuming the stall speed of 2500rpm? But can I get away with any more and will it actually help?
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Broomies Mate on 20 December 2015, 19:33:11
And can we also have a discussion on how many RPMs to chuck on when holding the brake in the auto?

I'm presuming the stall speed of 2500rpm? But can I get away with any more and will it actually help?

Presumably, the more the merrier provided it doesn't cause you to break traction.  So, with a 2.5, about 6,000RPM should be just fine.  ;)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: STEMO on 20 December 2015, 19:42:09
And can we also have a discussion on how many RPMs to chuck on when holding the brake in the auto?

I'm presuming the stall speed of 2500rpm? But can I get away with any more and will it actually help?

Presumably, the more the merrier provided it doesn't cause you to break traction.  So, with a 2.5, about 6,000RPM should be just fine.  ;)
Don't. He may break his car and then we'd never know the results of his experiment. Sigh........😞
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 20 December 2015, 19:46:45
And can we also have a discussion on how many RPMs to chuck on when holding the brake in the auto?

I'm presuming the stall speed of 2500rpm? But can I get away with any more and will it actually help?

Presumably, the more the merrier provided it doesn't cause you to break traction.  So, with a 2.5, about 6,000RPM should be just fine.  ;)

That's kinda why I asked. I remember tb mentioning that to floor it would be to stall it. Though I remember getting rear wheels stuck in some mud on a farm once and I floored it and it wouldn't rev past 2.5k. I think that was the stall speed stopping me from going any further  :-\

So I'm thinking 2.5k rpm???
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Nick W on 20 December 2015, 20:22:10
And can we also have a discussion on how many RPMs to chuck on when holding the brake in the auto?

I'm presuming the stall speed of 2500rpm? But can I get away with any more and will it actually help?

Presumably, the more the merrier provided it doesn't cause you to break traction.  So, with a 2.5, about 6,000RPM should be just fine.  ;)


You actually want some wheelspin; so more revs than the stallspeed is necessary. Exactly how much will require experimentation. If you don't launch this way it will just lurch away from the lights and bog-down. You see this all the time at the track.


This is assuming that the car has enough power to overcome the tyres on a prepared surface. That might be asking a bit much from an automatic 2.5.
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: henryd on 20 December 2015, 22:50:27
And can we also have a discussion on how many RPMs to chuck on when holding the brake in the auto?

I'm presuming the stall speed of 2500rpm? But can I get away with any more and will it actually help?

Presumably, the more the merrier provided it doesn't cause you to break traction.  So, with a 2.5, about 6,000RPM should be just fine.  ;)


You actually want some wheelspin; so more revs than the stallspeed is necessary. Exactly how much will require experimentation. If you don't launch this way it will just lurch away from the lights and bog-down. You see this all the time at the track.


This is assuming that the car has enough power to overcome the tyres on a prepared surface. That might be asking a bit much from an automatic 2.5.

Hows he going to do that then?,thats the highest revs it can pull in gear with brakes on without moving ???
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 21 December 2015, 18:06:13
got to say, that was my understanding. I wont be holding on to the brake for too long anyway....as quick as possible actually so as to protect the tranny as much as poss.  :y

if I manage to get a dry day in jan, I want a cold day with no rain, right?
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: TheBoy on 22 December 2015, 16:49:46
May struggle to find Michelin ps3's for the testing according to our tyre supplier. Anyone know a place that sells them.

Michelin, of their current stock, recommend the 'primacy' for my car. Are these similar tyres to the ps3's?
Double check, but I thought Primacy were their ecowank type tyre, PSx versions were high performance tyres.  If I'm right, they are completely different beasts - eco means no grip.
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 22 December 2015, 17:10:12
May struggle to find Michelin ps3's for the testing according to our tyre supplier. Anyone know a place that sells them.

Michelin, of their current stock, recommend the 'primacy' for my car. Are these similar tyres to the ps3's?
Double check, but I thought Primacy were their ecowank type tyre, PSx versions were high performance tyres.  If I'm right, they are completely different beasts - eco means no grip.

Ecowank.....It's worth checking the sidewall to see if your tyre is identified in this way. :)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 24 December 2015, 14:09:59
Thanks TB/Opti,

definitely cant get hold of PS3s in that size  :'(

what do we think is the nearest substitute for extra sportiness  :y :y :y :y
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: TheBoy on 24 December 2015, 16:15:26
Thanks TB/Opti,

definitely cant get hold of PS3s in that size  :'(

what do we think is the nearest substitute for extra sportiness  :y :y :y :y
The PS3's I had on TBE I wouldn't call "sporty". More "slippery".  But then, they were well over half worn at 5mm when I got them.

Certainly Mr Lazydocker wasn't happy with them from the passenger seat...
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: 05omegav6 on 24 December 2015, 17:28:51
Thanks TB/Opti,

definitely cant get hold of PS3s in that size  :'(

what do we think is the nearest substitute for extra sportiness  :y :y :y :y
The PS3's I had on TBE I wouldn't call "sporty". More "slippery".  But then, they were well over half worn at 5mm when I got them.

Certainly Mr Lazydocker wasn't happy with them from the passenger seat...
Has he warmed to the ones on his :-\
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 24 December 2015, 18:34:50
Well the ballast weight will be in the rear. Hopefully that will compensate for a slippery tyre. Looking forward to the results  :y
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 24 December 2015, 18:39:49
Ps looks like the primacy hp is the only Michelin available in my size. May stick with my new set
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: TheBoy on 25 December 2015, 09:40:43
Thanks TB/Opti,

definitely cant get hold of PS3s in that size  :'(

what do we think is the nearest substitute for extra sportiness  :y :y :y :y
The PS3's I had on TBE I wouldn't call "sporty". More "slippery".  But then, they were well over half worn at 5mm when I got them.

Certainly Mr Lazydocker wasn't happy with them from the passenger seat...
Has he warmed to the ones on his :-\
Mr Gixer seems to be getting on with his Michelins I believe, though the MPSS is not available in "standard" Omega sizes.
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 25 December 2015, 17:08:07
Many moons ago I seem to recall one one of the motoring magazines attempting to improve the 0-60 MPH of a 2 litre Cortina in a novel way.

The back wheels were lifted clear of the ground and spun furiously before  brutally making contact with the road surface again.

The result was a spectacular 'smoky' getaway that reduced the 0-60 MPH by a full second or more.

Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 28 December 2015, 16:37:31
So.

I got everything sorted. Accelerometer en route. Thanks Nick.

As said before I'm going for a cold but dry day in Jan.

One thing that's crossed my mind. How much would a head or tail wind affect the time. Obviously I want the best time possible but I don't want it to be cos of this. So how would it affect it?
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: henryd on 28 December 2015, 17:46:06
So.

I got everything sorted. Accelerometer en route. Thanks Nick.

As said before I'm going for a cold but dry day in Jan.

One thing that's crossed my mind. How much would a head or tail wind affect the time. Obviously I want the best time possible but I don't want it to be cos of this. So how would it affect it?

You do two runs in opposite directions and take the average from both.
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 28 December 2015, 17:53:58
So.

I got everything sorted. Accelerometer en route. Thanks Nick.

As said before I'm going for a cold but dry day in Jan.

One thing that's crossed my mind. How much would a head or tail wind affect the time. Obviously I want the best time possible but I don't want it to be cos of this. So how would it affect it?

You do two runs in opposite directions and take the average from both.

That's going to be trcky at Santa pod.

Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Nick W on 28 December 2015, 18:21:07
So.

I got everything sorted. Accelerometer en route. Thanks Nick.

As said before I'm going for a cold but dry day in Jan.

One thing that's crossed my mind. How much would a head or tail wind affect the time. Obviously I want the best time possible but I don't want it to be cos of this. So how would it affect it?

You do two runs in opposite directions and take the average from both.

That's going to be tricky at Santa pod.


These days you'll be doing well to get 2 runs in one day!
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 28 December 2015, 18:43:18
You mean it gets busy there nick?
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: biggriffin on 28 December 2015, 19:09:16
You are not seriously going to take a std 2.5 to Santa pod :o  :o  :o
This is getting silly now. ::)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 28 December 2015, 19:14:42
You are not seriously going to take a std 2.5 to Santa pod :o  :o  :o
This is getting silly now. ::)

Absolutely.

I too was sceptical until I saw some of the shite boxes that people bring  ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Nick W on 28 December 2015, 19:51:08
You are not seriously going to take a std 2.5 to Santa pod :o :o :o
This is getting silly now. ::)


Perhaps Steve will be booking it in with Andy Robinson for a full on Pro-Mod Omega? Which would be cool
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: biggriffin on 29 December 2015, 09:57:35
You are not seriously going to take a std 2.5 to Santa pod :o :o :o
This is getting silly now. ::)


Perhaps Steve will be booking it in with Andy Robinson for a full on Pro-Mod Omega? Which would be cool

Why not just get Total Vauxhall, to do a full article on this, we could send a 3.0L and a 3.2, along for comparison, and see which one goes bang ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 29 December 2015, 18:15:30
You are not seriously going to take a std 2.5 to Santa pod :o :o :o
This is getting silly now. ::)


Perhaps Steve will be booking it in with Andy Robinson for a full on Pro-Mod Omega? Which would be cool

Why not just get Total Vauxhall, to do a full article on this, we could send a 3.0L and a 3.2, along for comparison, and see which one goes bang ;D

go for it  ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 29 December 2015, 18:16:15
You are not seriously going to take a std 2.5 to Santa pod :o :o :o
This is getting silly now. ::)


Perhaps Steve will be booking it in with Andy Robinson for a full on Pro-Mod Omega? Which would be cool

Why not just get Total Vauxhall, to do a full article on this, we could send a 3.0L and a 3.2, along for comparison, and see which one goes bang ;D

go for it  ;D

...though it would put to bed the 3.2 vs 3.0 debate to bed once and for all  :-X :-X :-X :-X ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: EMD on 29 December 2015, 19:27:51
3.2 will run out of petrol before the end of the strip  ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: STEMO on 29 December 2015, 19:30:42
3.2 will run out of petrol before the end of the strip  ;D
;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 29 December 2015, 19:32:06
3.2 will run out of petrol before the end of the strip  ;D

Well, the offers there. so while im trying to match 9.2 ill let you 3.0 and 3.2 boys fight it out....... now, wheres that popcorn smiley.....
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: 05omegav6 on 29 December 2015, 19:52:29
3.2 will run out of petrol before the end of the strip  ;D

Well, the offers there. so while im trying to match 9.2 ill let you 3.0 and 3.2 boys fight it out....... now, wheres that popcorn smiley.....
Better fit the alternator to the plod one then ::)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: YZ250 on 29 December 2015, 20:15:09
You are not seriously going to take a std 2.5 to Santa pod :o :o :o
This is getting silly now. ::)


Perhaps Steve will be booking it in with Andy Robinson for a full on Pro-Mod Omega? Which would be cool

Why not just get Total Vauxhall, to do a full article on this, we could send a 3.0L and a 3.2, along for comparison, and see which one goes bang ;D

go for it  ;D

...though it would put to bed the 3.2 vs 3.0 debate to bed once and for all  :-X :-X :-X :-X ;D

And then it depends who's behind the wheel.  ;)

3.2 will run out of petrol before the end of the strip  ;D

Can't argue with that one.  ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: EMD on 29 December 2015, 23:40:49
3.2 will run out of petrol before the end of the strip  ;D

Well, the offers there. so while im trying to match 9.2 ill let you 3.0 and 3.2 boys fight it out....... now, wheres that popcorn smiley.....

(http://www.retrojunkie.com/gif/bananapopcorn.gif)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: biggriffin on 03 June 2017, 22:17:02
Wondered we're this had gone.

How's it going. :D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 03 June 2017, 22:51:45
Wondered we're this had gone.

How's it going. :D

LMFAO.  ;D ;D ;D

Well I finally listened to my peers   :-[ 0-60 timing is pointless. No one knows the real time and real conditions the car was tested in, even if it was tested at all!!!!!! Pointless!!!!

However went to the dyno. Motors lost no power at all!!! Very pleased. I'm sure I posted up dyno results somewhere  :y
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: biggriffin on 04 June 2017, 09:30:05
We might get this to 50 pages then :o
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 04 June 2017, 11:24:30
We might get this to 50 pages then :o

Well I did find it funny that there were a lot of people who contributed saying "nooooo you're doing it wrong" yet when I post up my actual dyno results no one commented    ;D

Maybe you guys could do dyno runs and we could compare to keep the thread alive......


 ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 04 June 2017, 12:05:28
I could, but it would only embarrass you Omega owners :D well all but one ::)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 04 June 2017, 12:27:52
😂😂😂😂😂😂
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 04 June 2017, 12:48:35
😂😂😂😂😂😂
You were saying... ::)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 04 June 2017, 13:23:47
I suppose it does beg a question. Who has the fastest stock Omega  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 04 June 2017, 13:47:27
Wondered we're this had gone.

How's it going. :D

Oh for christ's sake BG!  ::)  ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: biggriffin on 04 June 2017, 16:12:17
Wondered we're this had gone.

How's it going. :D

Oh for christ's sake BG!  ::)  ;D
.

Spanish sun, and beer got me.  :D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: TheBoy on 04 June 2017, 18:55:13
I suppose it does beg a question. Who has the fastest stock Omega  ;D ;D ;D
I thought Martin Imber said his 2.6 was the fastest thing on 4 wheels....


I would have put down my beloved Bullet as a contender, having driven many, many Omegas quickly. But then it had a couple of tweaks on it. Plus it was an auto, so in a standing start drag, would have been outgunned by most 3.0/3.2 manuals...
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 04 June 2017, 20:05:23
I suppose it does beg a question. Who has the fastest stock Omega  ;D ;D ;D
I thought Martin Imber said his 2.6 was the fastest thing on 4 wheels....


I would have put down my beloved Bullet as a contender, having driven many, many Omegas quickly. But then it had a couple of tweaks on it. Plus it was an auto, so in a standing start drag, would have been outgunned by most 3.0/3.2 manuals...

Remind me what tweaks it had TB.
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 04 June 2017, 21:18:08
I suppose it does beg a question. Who has the fastest stock Omega  ;D ;D ;D
I thought Martin Imber said his 2.6 was the fastest thing on 4 wheels....


I would have put down my beloved Bullet as a contender, having driven many, many Omegas quickly. But then it had a couple of tweaks on it. Plus it was an auto, so in a standing start drag, would have been outgunned by most 3.0/3.2 manuals...

Remind me what tweaks it had TB.
It had two as I recall...

1. No mechanical sympathy.
2. No fear.

 ::)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 04 June 2017, 22:23:07
 ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Migv6 le Frog Fan on 04 June 2017, 22:28:04
And no throttle return spring.  :y
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: henryd on 05 June 2017, 08:29:47
And no throttle return spring.  :y

Did it need one as a switch is either on or off :D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 05 June 2017, 13:56:58
And no throttle return spring.  :y

Did it need one as a switch is either on or off :D

😂😂😂😂😂😂
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: TheBoy on 05 June 2017, 17:46:56
1. No mechanical sympathy.
I'll have you know, it had loads, I was always gentle until it had fully warmed, and always gave it plenty of time to cool after a spirited ride.

Between those times, however....
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: TheBoy on 05 June 2017, 17:47:44
And no throttle return spring.  :y

Did it need one as a switch is either on or off :D
TC performs the analogue portions via a PWM system :P ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: biggriffin on 07 June 2017, 09:23:00
Did we ever get to the real world 0-60, not the officially manipulated ones :)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 07 June 2017, 09:26:42
Post #1 ::)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Kevin Wood on 07 June 2017, 09:28:17
Did we ever get to the real world 0-60, not the officially manipulated ones :)

We've only got to 49 so far. ::)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 07 June 2017, 09:33:13
Did we ever get to the real world 0-60, not the officially manipulated ones :)

We've only got to 49 so far. ::)
Could you lock it?
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Kevin Wood on 07 June 2017, 10:43:43
Yes, I could. :y
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 07 June 2017, 11:13:30
Yes, I could. :y
Spoil sport :P
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 08 June 2017, 18:31:08
Real world seems to be between 10.5 and 8.5 seconds depending on conditions  :y

I make that an average of 9.5. So I reckon their figures are accurate 👍
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 08 June 2017, 18:33:07
Oh and that's for the 2.5 v6. 👍 Of course I'm sure some forumites will be doing sub 3 seconds in theirs 😂 But real world varies

I still like gixers idea of an abandoned air field oof 0-60 dash event
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: TheBoy on 08 June 2017, 19:00:42
Oh and that's for the 2.5 v6. 👍 Of course I'm sure some forumites will be doing sub 3 seconds in theirs 😂 But real world varies

I still like gixers idea of an abandoned air field oof 0-60 dash event
And KWs gadget, for accuracy
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 10 June 2017, 08:54:47
I reckon my car will be up top of the 2.5's 😂😂😂😂
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Lincs Robert on 11 June 2017, 18:48:19
I took my 3.0 manual MV6 saloon to Germany in 2003. In ideal conditions on an unregulated section of autobahn I had an indicated 145 - it was me that chickened out - the car was up for it  :-[
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 12 June 2017, 11:48:42
They do want to go 8) 3.2 manual estate will cruise at 150. Which is nice :D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 12 June 2017, 14:10:52
I'm only seeing opinions here guys. I want evidence 😂😂😂😂😂😂
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: TheBoy on 12 June 2017, 17:24:15
I reckon my car will be up top of the 2.5's 😂😂😂😂
Mrs TB's TBE won't be. Christ, it was flat as a witches tit on the way over to Sereks Saturday morning. It had started to perk up by the time I got it back home...
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: BazaJT on 12 June 2017, 18:27:56
Well we've got to 50 pages and the "dangleberries" still aren't laid to rest ;D ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 12 June 2017, 18:42:05
I'm only seeing opinions here guys. I want evidence 😂😂😂😂😂😂
Two hopes from me no longer owning an Omega ::)
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: Webby the Bear on 12 June 2017, 19:30:15
I reckon my car will be up top of the 2.5's 😂😂😂😂
Mrs TB's TBE won't be. Christ, it was flat as a witches tit on the way over to Sereks Saturday morning. It had started to perk up by the time I got it back home...

An issue TB, or an "unlearned" transmission ECU?  ::) ;D
Title: Re: Ok, I can officially put this 0-60 'dangle berries' to rest
Post by: TheBoy on 12 June 2017, 20:26:38
I reckon my car will be up top of the 2.5's 😂😂😂😂
Mrs TB's TBE won't be. Christ, it was flat as a witches tit on the way over to Sereks Saturday morning. It had started to perk up by the time I got it back home...

An issue TB, or an "unlearned" transmission ECU?  ::) ;D
Clearly in need of an Italian tune up.  Clearly spent too long being dwardled about.