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[terry paget]

Having recently spent £300 to get my 2003 3.2 through MOT after repair to holes hammered through cills by MOT tester, I wonder how to avoid similar failures. Son Ben's 2.2 looks similar, pics follow. Please advise.
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[Nick W]

Too late to prevent rot, as it's already there.


For the next couple of MOTs, ensure that the will covers are in place, and don't worry.


Once the holes are obvious it will be time to have them replaced.


That was supposed to be one of my summer jobs, but I didn't buy the panels(it's easier to replace an entire will than it is to patch several holes) and it hasn't happened.

[terry paget]

Thanks for advice. It would not help attempting to derust that patch chemically then? I fear if I wire brushed it I would create a huge hole.
Pic of ns cill follows.


 

[TheBoy]

I bought replacement sills for the Bullet, but never fitted.  They will do for when that same day arrives for TBE

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

Theres only one cure for that. Cut out the rust and weld in new metal. 

[Doctor Gollum]

Theres only one cure for that. Clean it up, fibreglass the ensuing holes and repaint before refitting the covers . 

Yup, works every time

[BazaJT]

We'll be back to stuffing newspaper in the holes as backing for the bodyfiller next

[Nick W]

We'll be back to stuffing newspaper in the holes as backing for the bodyfiller next

Balloons are quicker

[terry paget]

I understand MOT testers are not allowed to dismantle cars to examine them. The only place they can examine the covered cills is behind the rear jacking point. That is where they go, with their pointed hammers, trying to chip their way through. On my 3.2, on 27 June 2017, my tester succeeded, and charged me £300 to weld patches over the 2 holes he had created. There had been other rust spots in those cills, but he ignored those, simply welding 2 patches over holes he had created.
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=140041.0
Ben's car MOT expires July 2018. His advice is to wait and see what happens between now and then.

[terry paget]

All this talk of balloons and newspaper suggests gentle mockery. Advice is mixed, but a cheap MIG welder and learning to weld might be a good idea. The inspiration was this hole above the cill.

[Nick W]

Terry, that rot is pretty much what mine failed on this year.


An MOT 'slap a plate over the top and underseal to last a couple of years' is a couple of hours work for a hack. Doing a tidy, long lasting repair isn't as easy as it looks, because there will be a lot more rust than you can see - I've posted what mine required, which included having to patch the end of the sill, wheel arch and floor. It still needs the outer sills replaced, which means stripping the carpets and moving all of the wiring out of the way.

[terry paget]

Thanks for the advice Nick. I have 6 Omegas, now all old and troublesome. I see on e-bay there are 4 2.2 Omegas, including one manual CDX. As my son says, let's wait a year and see. at 17 years, evry new Omega I buy is a gamble. Bought an X reg last year for £190, with little rust. I was just wondering what I might do to this one to ease it through  next year's MOT. Patch that obvious hole, wire brush and Kurust the cills perhaps? 

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

Using fibreglass, newspaper, hiding it behind the plastic overs etc. might get you an MOT certificate, but you need to ask yourself whats going to happen to the car in the event of an accident. It might fold up like a tescos carrier bag, as the structure is weakened.
There is no way of knowing how weakened it has become unless the unfortunate happens.
I would suggest buying a MIG welder and learn how to use it. This is exactly what I did about a year ago with my old Merc. and it paid for itself the first time I used it.
There are plenty of youtube tutorials etc. to help. It isn't rocket science.
You don't need to be able to produce welds that look beautiful, just strong ones. As webby says " a grinder & paint can make a welder what he aint.
Don't go for the cheapest welder you can find, it will be difficult to use and cause much frustration. After seeking advice on here, I bought a Clark 135 TE, which is an excellent piece of kit.
I believe Webby was selling one a while back, not sure if he still has it.

[Sir Tigger KC]

Using fibreglass, newspaper, hiding it behind the plastic overs etc. might get you an MOT certificate, but you need to ask yourself whats going to happen to the car in the event of an accident. It might fold up like a tescos carrier bag, as the structure is weakened.

It's funny how we start thinking about this sort of thing as we get older.    Did any of us worry about the consequences of our actions when we were 18? 

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

Not in the slightest, which is why its close to miraculous that I'm actually sat here typing this. 

[terry paget]

Using fibreglass, newspaper, hiding it behind the plastic overs etc. might get you an MOT certificate, but you need to ask yourself whats going to happen to the car in the event of an accident. It might fold up like a tescos carrier bag, as the structure is weakened.

It's funny how we start thinking about this sort of thing as we get older.    Did any of us worry about the consequences of our actions when we were 18? 

I was miffedt the way the MOT shop and garage only patched the holes they had made,which were not structural, not other rust patches exposed in the cills when I removed the covers. I supplied the car for repair without cill covers,  hoping to embarrass them, but in vain

[ajsphead]

Looking at the rust, I would ask myself if I had a rear seat passenger and was involved in a crash what would be the structural integrity of the lower seat belt mount. Certainly not what it's maker intended. Don't buy a cheapo welder, it's much harder to do a half decent, let alone tidy job.

Treat it like a proper classic, cut out and replace with new metal. Give yourself a month per side as I reckon you'll be doing everything up to and possibly beyond the midline of the inner arch.

I learned a long time ago, own a Omega, buy a welder. Welder will probably cost more than the Omega but has many more uses including repairing toilet seat hinges, curtain poles, garden furniture, broken workshop equipment etc.

Also, buy a year's subscription to Practical Classics magazine and use the skillshack tutorials to get advice and really get into the spirit of it.

I have nearly got to the end of welding the current Omega, front inner arches, rear inner arches, pin holes along both sills, sill ends and rear floorpan, so all normal stuff. Still have to drop the tank and do about 3ft of rear valence that's not there any more. Uneconomic if I had not done it myself and a perfectly mechanically sound Omega would be a washing machine by now.

[johnnydog]

I know people get attached to their own cars, but looking at rust like that, I would be seriously considering whether to scrap the car or not. To cut out all that rust and do a satisfactory repair to me would not be economically worthwhile. There is severe corrosion on other components shown in the photos which indicate the extent of the possible corrosion elsewhere. My local scrap yard has several Omegas in there with very sound bodyshells; presumably they are there for mechanical issues which the owners can't afford to pay a garage to repair.
If it was a 3.2 in Elite guise, then there may be an arguement for doing the work, but even so I wouldn't.
I have a 3.2 saloon which I bought for parts - the engine is rumbling slightly at the bottom end, but the rest of the car is good - other mechanicals, trim and bodywork are all very good - good arches and good underneath. But, I am seriously thinking of breaking it. But if someone was in the position of facing a load of welding, an engine transplant in a car such as this 3.2 would be the route I would take rather than welding. Same applies to any Omega.
There are still decent ones around if you are prepared to wait for the right car to make welding a rust bucket unviable, IMHO.

[terry paget]

I know people get attached to their own cars, but looking at rust like that, I would be seriously considering whether to scrap the car or not. To cut out all that rust and do a satisfactory repair to me would not be economically worthwhile. There is severe corrosion on other components shown in the photos which indicate the extent of the possible corrosion elsewhere. My local scrap yard has several Omegas in there with very sound bodyshells; presumably they are there for mechanical issues which the owners can't afford to pay a garage to repair.
If it was a 3.2 in Elite guise, then there may be an arguement for doing the work, but even so I wouldn't.
I have a 3.2 saloon which I bought for parts - the engine is rumbling slightly at the bottom end, but the rest of the car is good - other mechanicals, trim and bodywork are all very good - good arches and good underneath. But, I am seriously thinking of breaking it. But if someone was in the position of facing a load of welding, an engine transplant in a car such as this 3.2 would be the route I would take rather than welding. Same applies to any Omega.
There are still decent ones around if you are prepared to wait for the right car to make welding a rust bucket unviable, IMHO.

Well said. This car cost me £401 in June 2011. It has done my son 54000 miles. As said above, there ae 4 Omegas on e-bay at the moment, all with MOT. This car's MOT expires July 2018, so no rush. If I can get it through 2 more MOTs I shall be satisfied. How might I achieve that? As Nick says, clean up those cills, perhaps Kurust and underseal, and replace the covers.Mend that hole too.

[Nick W]

Well said. This car cost me £401 in June 2011. It has done my son 54000 miles. As said above, there are 4 Omegas on e-bay at the moment, all with MOT. This car's MOT expires July 2018, so no rush. If I can get it through 2 more MOTs I shall be satisfied. How might I achieve that? As Nick says, clean up those cills, perhaps Kurust and underseal, and replace the covers.Mend that hole too.

Nick DID not, and WILL not say that!


A mechanically good, tidy looking Omega is worth sod all. A rusty one that needs mechanical work is a liability. The welding Terry had done is classic patch up the specific MOT failures and nothing more - the price he paid is proof of that. If your Omega requires welding that you have to pay someone else to do for it to pass an MOT, then it almost certainly isn't worth doing.


I need to replace both sills on my car which are about £50 and an afternoon's work per side. I'm prepared to do that, but my car has had all the mechanical work, and I've done this sort of bodywork before and have the equipment to do so; it's still less than one monthly payment on a used shitbox.


And I don't consider the sills to be the worst problem: anyone with crusty sills should have a damn good look at the chassis rails above the the back of the front-subframe.


As for Kurust or any other chemical treatment, just send me the money: we'll both get more value out of it.

[omega2018]

o/s sill doesn't look too bad - put a flat disc twisted wire grinder on and remove all paint around the edges and rust.  don't worry about making a hole, if you do the hole was there anyway just hidden in rust.  then chemically treat it with  fertan or similar, including inside,  and anti rust primers. if you get big holes like on n/s then weld.

n/s definitely needs welding .

so might as well weld both .

[ajsphead]

"And I don't consider the sills to be the worst problem: anyone with crusty sills should have a damn good look at the chassis rails above the the back of the front-subframe."

Well said and as far as I am concerned, go around the car with a pointy stick and a 30cm length of string around prescribed areas and find out where the holes are.

It's a safety thing, no more, no less and the back end of an Omega can look quite scary when you think about it.

I also wish people would understand that chemical rust treatments only treat the surface and have minimal penetration so are no good unless you have ground out everything that's brown. I only use them as a primer on old metal that's saveable and has been attacked with all sorts of grinding tools and other more specialist chemicals first. Even so, nothing available on the high st goes anywhere near the car. The surface then needs stabilising and not just spraying with stone chip and underseal.

It's a filthy time consuming job and depressing at times but worth it with the quality of the results when you get it right.

[aaronjb]

don't worry about making a hole, if you do the hole was there anyway just hidden in rust.

Well said - that's what was going through my mind when Terry appeared so annoyed that the MOT tester had "made a hole" in his car. He didn't make a hole, he just found the hole that was already there hidden under a thin layer of iron oxide that was doing sweet Fanny Adams for the structure of the car.

[johnnydog]

I know people get attached to their own cars, but looking at rust like that, I would be seriously considering whether to scrap the car or not. To cut out all that rust and do a satisfactory repair to me would not be economically worthwhile. There is severe corrosion on other components shown in the photos which indicate the extent of the possible corrosion elsewhere. My local scrap yard has several Omegas in there with very sound bodyshells; presumably they are there for mechanical issues which the owners can't afford to pay a garage to repair.
If it was a 3.2 in Elite guise, then there may be an arguement for doing the work, but even so I wouldn't.
I have a 3.2 saloon which I bought for parts - the engine is rumbling slightly at the bottom end, but the rest of the car is good - other mechanicals, trim and bodywork are all very good - good arches and good underneath. But, I am seriously thinking of breaking it. But if someone was in the position of facing a load of welding, an engine transplant in a car such as this 3.2 would be the route I would take rather than welding. Same applies to any Omega.
There are still decent ones around if you are prepared to wait for the right car to make welding a rust bucket unviable, IMHO.

Well said. This car cost me £401 in June 2011. It has done my son 54000 miles. As said above, there ae 4 Omegas on e-bay at the moment, all with MOT. This car's MOT expires July 2018, so no rush. If I can get it through 2 more MOTs I shall be satisfied. How might I achieve that? As Nick says, clean up those cills, perhaps Kurust and underseal, and replace the covers.Mend that hole too.

Terry, you say it cost you £401 six years ago, and has done 54k in that time, has MOT to June 2018, yet dispite the severe rust in the sills, you want to get another 2 years out of it?
I think you have had your monies worth out of that car - with the number of Omegas you have, I'd take it off the road and scrap it nearer mot time and use parts when needed on the others or sell them, but put the money you'd spend on getting through further MOT's etc on a really sound replacement car.
I would say you would in in pocket all round, and have a potentially more roadworthy / less of a death trap of a vehicle.
Good honest Omegas are out there for the same money you will spend on further repairs to yours, if you are prepared to wait, and thoroughly check them over before purchase.

[terry paget]

My thanks to all for good advice. My philosophy has long been buy cheap roadworthy Omegas and replace them when repair costs become silly. When my Opel 2.5 Omega suffered rear shock absorber mounting failure through rust I scrapped it. I am surprised this car passed its MOT on July 8th with that hole by the rear n/s door, I suppose it had not appeared then. As ajsphead observes, it's near a seat belt mounting.

[New POD]

Using fibreglass, newspaper, hiding it behind the plastic overs etc. might get you an MOT certificate, but you need to ask yourself whats going to happen to the car in the event of an accident. It might fold up like a tescos carrier bag, as the structure is weakened.

It's funny how we start thinking about this sort of thing as we get older.    Did any of us worry about the consequences of our actions when we were 18? 

I used to ride a motorbike on slicks in the rain.  I'd rather crash in a rusty Omega than on an RD350LC

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

I rode an R1 in the rain on Irish country roads about 10 years ago, with the rear tyre down to the canvas. It brings me out in a cold sweat just to think about it now.
I have definitely gotten old in the last decade. 

[terry paget]

I toured Europe in 1958 on a Cotton 250cc Villers twin. On the way to Dover the rear brake jammed, so I dismantled it, greased the brake and carried on with only a front brake. I was younger then.