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[Sir Tigger KC]

..... in Mrs May travelling all the way to Florence to deliver a speech that seemingly everyone already knows the contents of? 

As far as I can make out there will be no-one of any importance in Florence to hear this 'game changing' speech, so why not save some tax payers cash and issue a press release? 

Unless of course she has blind sided everyone and is about tell the EU to stick their divorce bill where the sun don't shine! 

I thought Boris looked quite cheerful as they emerged from No 10 yesterday, Hammond less so.... 

[Sir Tigger KC]

Ooops wrong section!    Bit like Mrs May really! 

[Doctor Gollum]

I am rather hoping that the third paragraph is the gist of it

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

..... in Mrs May travelling all the way to Florence to deliver a speech that seemingly everyone already knows the contents of? 

As far as I can make out there will be no-one of any importance in Florence to hear this 'game changing' speech, so why not save some tax payers cash and issue a press release? 

Unless of course she has blind sided everyone and is about tell the EU to stick their divorce bill where the sun don't shine! 

I thought Boris looked quite cheerful as they emerged from No 10 yesterday, Hammond less so.... 

That would make good viewing.

People voted to leave partly because we would save £350M each week.......which would go directly to the NHS.

They didn't vote to leave so we could pay an additional £20 Billion to our EU chums.......and presumably that is just the start.

Humiliating.  

[Viral_Jim]

Humiliating.

Indeed.

It is becoming apparent that the political world at large is starting to care very little about what we have to say. 

http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2017/09/21/may-humiliated-on-world-stage-as-brexit-bites

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

It'll be interesting to hear what Mother Theresa has to say today.

[Viral_Jim]

My personal prediction is a load of BS about how "we're all in this together", how "all countries in the process need to pull together to make an agreement work" and some non-committal b0llocks about EU citizens rights and "meeting our obligations".

All followed up by a swift "lovely but we're still not impressed" from the EU side and a GBP drop of 0.5c against the euro.
 
But, in matters political, I have been wrong before

[Sir Tigger KC]

Ian Dunt the editor of politics.co.uk is as impartial when it comes to BREXIT as Nigal Farage.  He writes that Canada is about to gain what the UK is set to lose, ie free trade with EU. 

What Canada is not gaining though is the requirement to apply EU rules and regulations to their entire economy, they're not gaining the requirement to pay billions into the EU budget, they're not gaining the requirement to allow uncontrolled immigration from the EU, nor are they giving up any of their independence or sovereignty in exchange for trade. 

 

[Viral_Jim]

All of which doesn't alter the point, and the reason I posted the article, that about 20 people could be bothered to stick around and hear what she had to say. Contrast it with Macron's speech, or even the one that our very own Pig Botherer made a few years before.

Far from striding out as a bold new force onto the world stage, in political terms we seem to be fast becoming a small island whistling in the dark. Undoubtedly not helped by our embarrassment of "Brexit negotiators" whose main strategy seems to be to tell everyone within earshot that they aren't being helpful/flexible enough to give us what we want.

[STEMO]

In case you hadn’t noticed, Jimmy, we’ve been an irrelevance for about 30 years now.

[Sir Tigger KC]

Far from striding out as a bold new force onto the world stage, in political terms we seem to be fast becoming a small island whistling in the dark. Undoubtedly not helped by our embarrassment of "Brexit negotiators" whose main strategy seems to be to tell everyone within earshot that they aren't being helpful/flexible enough to give us what we want.

It seems as though you'd prefer the "Brexit negotiators" just cough up the £100 billion and roll over on all the other points that the EU are being so intransigent about in their absurd phased 'negotiations'. 

If they did that though, it would really prove your point about the UK becoming diminished and irrelevant!   

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

It looks like we'll be dancing to the tune and paying EU piper until 2021. The referendum was in 2016.

I'm guessing that around 2020 the transitional period will be extended to 2025. In 2023 it will be extended again to 2030.

Will we ever actually fully leave?

It's a total cluster f*ck. 

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

It is indeed, because we have a PM who defies medical science by walking upright without a spine. She has done yet another U turn and caved in to Hammond and his ilk, which gives the remaniacs more time and hope to try and reverse or ignore the biggest vote in British history. Its just dragging the issue and all its arguments on and on......
The woman is worse than useless.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

It is indeed, because we have a PM who defies medical science by walking upright without a spine. She has done yet another U turn and caved in to Hammond and his ilk, which gives the remaniacs more time and hope to try and reverse or ignore the biggest vote in British history. Its just dragging the issue and all its arguments on and on......
The woman is worse than useless.

Yep. All this transitional boll*cks is only going to muddy the waters further.

Piss or get off the pot would be my advice.

[Viral_Jim]

It seems as though you'd prefer the "Brexit negotiators" just cough up the £100 billion and roll over on all the other points that the EU are being so intransigent about in their absurd phased 'negotiations'. 

If they did that though, it would really prove your point about the UK becoming diminished and irrelevant!   

Definitely not, my preference would be that we are not doing it at all. But that is not the reality. That said, I will not be jumping on the "we're all in this together" bandwagon, that isn't how these things work. I don't think £100bn is the number, but equally I don't thing just walking away is a viable option either as, regardless of how the next 4-10yrs pan out we will need a relationship with the eu going forward.

We are, what 25% through the process and "we" have already given way on a number of key pieces of the "brexit means brexit" cobblers of 2016. Many more pieces will doubtless follow. It is their club and their rules, which one way or another we will play by sooner or later.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

It seems as though you'd prefer the "Brexit negotiators" just cough up the £100 billion and roll over on all the other points that the EU are being so intransigent about in their absurd phased 'negotiations'. 

If they did that though, it would really prove your point about the UK becoming diminished and irrelevant!   

Definitely not, my preference would be that we are not doing it at all. But that is not the reality. That said, I will not be jumping on the "we're all in this together" bandwagon, that isn't how these things work. I don't think £100bn is the number, but equally I don't thing just walking away is a viable option either as, regardless of how the next 4-10yrs pan out we will need a relationship with the eu going forward.

We are, what 25% through the process and "we" have already given way on a number of key pieces of the "brexit means brexit" cobblers of 2016. Many more pieces will doubtless follow. It is their club and their rules, which one way or another we will play by sooner or later.

 As time goes on my guess is Theresa will compromise far more than those 'dastardly foreign fiends' from across the channel.

[Viral_Jim]

No chance.

David Davis will go over there, wave a British bulldog in their faces, quote something about fighting them on the beaches at them and the cheese/sausage eating surrender monkeys will throw in the towel. 

[STEMO]

They don’t like it up ‘em, Captain Mainwaring.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

They don’t like it up ‘em, Captain Mainwaring.

If it all goes tits up Walmington-on Sea may be our first line of defence against the evil hun.

[Lizzie Zoom]

It seems as though you'd prefer the "Brexit negotiators" just cough up the £100 billion and roll over on all the other points that the EU are being so intransigent about in their absurd phased 'negotiations'. 

If they did that though, it would really prove your point about the UK becoming diminished and irrelevant!   

Definitely not, my preference would be that we are not doing it at all. But that is not the reality. That said, I will not be jumping on the "we're all in this together" bandwagon, that isn't how these things work. I don't think £100bn is the number, but equally I don't thing just walking away is a viable option either as, regardless of how the next 4-10yrs pan out we will need a relationship with the eu going forward.

We are, what 25% through the process and "we" have already given way on a number of key pieces of the "brexit means brexit" cobblers of 2016. Many more pieces will doubtless follow. It is their club and their rules, which one way or another we will play by sooner or later.

I agree.

What so many people in this country expect is everything in an instant.  They believe in the simple and ignore all laws, standards, honour and decency.  They believe, I think, that we the British have still got an empire and every country should obey our demands at an instant, with our gun boats going in if they do not adhere to our wishes.

We lost our absolute power, at the latest, in 1956, when we were proved to be absolutely reliant on the USA.  In 1975 the Government of the day, in the shape of Edward Heath, signed away, with the blessing of the majority of the population, our independent rights to enter the Common Market.  Since then the Country by way of the elected government of the day, have gone along with it all, tightening our legal and economic ties because it suited us.

Now those who voted to leave the EU are now finding out how naive they were in apparently thinking it would be a simple process to untie the knot. Remainers like me had the foresight to ignore all the bullshit of tempting offers by a certain sect of politicians and recognise how complicated leaving would be, predicting we would be financially worse of.

So the Brexiteers are not happy with how it is going?  What a surprise, and I for one have no sympathy with them. They created this strange political bed, so let them lie on it!!

As I keep on referring to:

Forward, the Light Brigade!”
Was there a man dismayed?
Not though the soldier knew
   Someone had blundered.
   Theirs not to make reply,
   Theirs not to reason why,
   Theirs but to do and die.
   Into the valley of Death
   Rode the six hundred.

III
Cannon to right of them,
Cannon to left of them,
Cannon in front of them
   Volleyed and thundered;
Stormed at with shot and shell,
Boldly they rode and well,
Into the jaws of Death,
Into the mouth of hell
   Rode the six hundred.

[biggriffin]

Ian Dunt the editor of politics.co.uk is as impartial when it comes to BREXIT as Nigal Farage.  He writes that Canada is about to gain what the UK is set to lose, ie free trade with EU. 

What Canada is not gaining though is the requirement to apply EU rules and regulations to their entire economy, they're not gaining the requirement to pay billions into the EU budget, they're not gaining the requirement to allow uncontrolled immigration from the EU, nor are they giving up any of their independence or sovereignty in exchange for trade. 

.

Now let me think, what has Canada got to offer, the EU,, 


OIL

[Sir Tigger KC]

 I don't thing just walking away is a viable option either as, regardless of how the next 4-10yrs pan out we will need a relationship with the eu going forward.

Agreed and I think that in 10 years time we'll wonder what all the fuss was about.  For what it's worth, I think that Mrs May has made some sensible concessions today and the ball is now in the EU's court.  If they say Nine/Non/Njet though rather than approach this constructively, I can't see HMG will have much option but to start preparing for No Deal    They could reciprocate by abandoning this stupid phased approach to the talks! 

You say it's their club and it's their rules and we'll end up playing by them, but I wouldn't be so sure about that.  The EU are also walking a tightrope, where on one side they want to protect the political project and the other the wants and needs of people and businesses across the EU.

If they are too intransigent and end up driving us out with no trade agreement the pain will be felt not just here but across the EU.    But then they don't have to worry about the electorate so much....   

[Doctor Gollum]

Best option would be to walk into the room in Brussels on Monday and say...

"Actually, we have reviewed our position, and have decided that Fridays negotiation offer is now inappropriate.

As of 29th March 2019, we will trade with EU member states under WTO guidelines. Any non UK citizens have until 1st March 2018 to apply for a leave to remain or face deportation procedures prior to 28th March 2019. Priority in this matter will be given to those gainfully employed and paying tax/NI in the UK and those with legally entitled spouses.

Any European based businesses and governments have until 1st January 2019 to negotiate and formally register their trading terms with UK plc with those terms formally taking effect from 23:59 on 28th March 2019. Failure to do so will result in those countries or companies also being bound by WTO rules.

These terms are non negotiable and UK plc reserves the right to reject any terms offered should they be to the detriment of UK plc."

Juncker can huff and puff all he likes, but by this time next year, they will have little choice but to come begging for more favourable terms...

[Doctor Gollum]

On a serious note, todays speech is largely moot... unless their is unanimous aggreement from the entire EU, we can not retain access to the free market at any cost after 29th March 2019...

The time-frame allowed in Article 50 is two years - and this can only be extended by unanimous agreement from all EU countries.

If no agreement is reached in two years, and no extension is agreed, the UK automatically leaves the EU and all existing agreements - including access to the single market - would cease to apply to the UK. If that happens, Brexit Day would be Friday, 29 March 2019.

So there...

[Viral_Jim]

You say it's their club and it's their rules and we'll end up playing by them, but I wouldn't be so sure about that.  The EU are also walking a tightrope, where on one side they want to protect the political project and the other the wants and needs of people and businesses across the EU.

The reason I say we will play is that our government is hanging by a thread (a religious fundamentalist thread at that, but that's another topic). A no-deal WTO route would split the Tory party. There are enough remoaners and reluctant leavers (or soft-brexiters if you will) in parliament, that neither major party would withstand presiding over a no deal. Politicians are ultimately predictable creatures in their drive for self preservation. They will save themselves by saving their party, some deal will be struck and then they will try to spin it to us.

DG: I did quote that very passage, and state where I thought it would leave us in the runup to the referendum, I was told in no uncertain terms that such a line was being needlessly negative. So don't you start now .

[STEMO]

I went into ‘not really caring’ mode about a month after the referendum. I’ve now moved into ‘couldn’t give a toss’ mode. People on here will pass away before all this is sorted. 

[Viral_Jim]

People on here will pass away before all this is sorted. 

Fu£king quitters 

[STEMO]

People on here will pass away before all this is sorted. 

Fu£king quitters 

How was the pie and chips? 

[Viral_Jim]

It was lovely, nice and sweaty by the time I got it back from the chippy. 2x Large peas to top it off (got to get your 5 a day - apparently).

[STEMO]

It was lovely, nice and sweaty by the time I got it back from the chippy. 2x Large peas to top it off (got to get your 5 a day - apparently).

Good lad Plenty of salad on your doner kebab tomorrow, your heart will thank you for it. 

[Varche]

It seems as though you'd prefer the "Brexit negotiators" just cough up the £100 billion and roll over on all the other points that the EU are being so intransigent about in their absurd phased 'negotiations'. 

If they did that though, it would really prove your point about the UK becoming diminished and irrelevant!   

Definitely not, my preference would be that we are not doing it at all. But that is not the reality. That said, I will not be jumping on the "we're all in this together" bandwagon, that isn't how these things work. I don't think £100bn is the number, but equally I don't thing just walking away is a viable option either as, regardless of how the next 4-10yrs pan out we will need a relationship with the eu going forward.

We are, what 25% through the process and "we" have already given way on a number of key pieces of the "brexit means brexit" cobblers of 2016. Many more pieces will doubtless follow. It is their club and their rules, which one way or another we will play by sooner or later.

I agree.

What so many people in this country expect is everything in an instant.  They believe in the simple and ignore all laws, standards, honour and decency.  They believe, I think, that we the British have still got an empire and every country should obey our demands at an instant, with our gun boats going in if they do not adhere to our wishes.

We lost our absolute power, at the latest, in 1956, when we were proved to be absolutely reliant on the USA.  In 1975 the Government of the day, in the shape of Edward Heath, signed away, with the blessing of the majority of the population, our independent rights to enter the Common Market.  Since then the Country by way of the elected government of the day, have gone along with it all, tightening our legal and economic ties because it suited us.

Now those who voted to leave the EU are now finding out how naive they were in apparently thinking it would be a simple process to untie the knot. Remainers like me had the foresight to ignore all the bullshit of tempting offers by a certain sect of politicians and recognise how complicated leaving would be, predicting we would be financially worse of.

So the Brexiteers are not happy with how it is going?  What a surprise, and I for one have no sympathy with them. They created this strange political bed, so let them lie on it!!

As I keep on referring to:

Forward, the Light Brigade!”
Was there a man dismayed?
Not though the soldier knew
   Someone had blundered.
   Theirs not to make reply,
   Theirs not to reason why,
   Theirs but to do and die.
   Into the valley of Death
   Rode the six hundred.

III
Cannon to right of them,
Cannon to left of them,
Cannon in front of them
   Volleyed and thundered;
Stormed at with shot and shell,
Boldly they rode and well,
Into the jaws of Death,
Into the mouth of hell
   Rode the six hundred.

Quite simply it is like a bad marriage.easiest thing is to keep your head down and minimise the pain having failed to make changes. Making the break takes guts and life is uncertain for a while but does go on. People dont like uncertainty , that is why so many stick with a bad marriage. Unfortunately both sides are using uncertainty as a tool. The only thing that has been agreed so far apparently is what will happen to the people caught up in this. Except no one has told us what has been agreed!

I still stand by my assertion the day the result was announced that the establishment are working to keep us in the EU. Mays about turns are just a part of that. As is Blair popping up now and then in the EUcorridors.  What odds are there for PM Vince Cable?

[Sir Tigger KC]

 
What odds are there for PM Vince Cable?

100/1  They were talking about this on Question Time on Thursday night. 

What a decision,  PM Cable or PM Corbyn!     

[Lizzie Zoom]

It seems as though you'd prefer the "Brexit negotiators" just cough up the £100 billion and roll over on all the other points that the EU are being so intransigent about in their absurd phased 'negotiations'. 

If they did that though, it would really prove your point about the UK becoming diminished and irrelevant!   

Definitely not, my preference would be that we are not doing it at all. But that is not the reality. That said, I will not be jumping on the "we're all in this together" bandwagon, that isn't how these things work. I don't think £100bn is the number, but equally I don't thing just walking away is a viable option either as, regardless of how the next 4-10yrs pan out we will need a relationship with the eu going forward.

We are, what 25% through the process and "we" have already given way on a number of key pieces of the "brexit means brexit" cobblers of 2016. Many more pieces will doubtless follow. It is their club and their rules, which one way or another we will play by sooner or later.

I agree.

What so many people in this country expect is everything in an instant.  They believe in the simple and ignore all laws, standards, honour and decency.  They believe, I think, that we the British have still got an empire and every country should obey our demands at an instant, with our gun boats going in if they do not adhere to our wishes.

We lost our absolute power, at the latest, in 1956, when we were proved to be absolutely reliant on the USA.  In 1975 the Government of the day, in the shape of Edward Heath, signed away, with the blessing of the majority of the population, our independent rights to enter the Common Market.  Since then the Country by way of the elected government of the day, have gone along with it all, tightening our legal and economic ties because it suited us.

Now those who voted to leave the EU are now finding out how naive they were in apparently thinking it would be a simple process to untie the knot. Remainers like me had the foresight to ignore all the bullshit of tempting offers by a certain sect of politicians and recognise how complicated leaving would be, predicting we would be financially worse of.

So the Brexiteers are not happy with how it is going?  What a surprise, and I for one have no sympathy with them. They created this strange political bed, so let them lie on it!!

As I keep on referring to:

Forward, the Light Brigade!”
Was there a man dismayed?
Not though the soldier knew
   Someone had blundered.
   Theirs not to make reply,
   Theirs not to reason why,
   Theirs but to do and die.
   Into the valley of Death
   Rode the six hundred.

III
Cannon to right of them,
Cannon to left of them,
Cannon in front of them
   Volleyed and thundered;
Stormed at with shot and shell,
Boldly they rode and well,
Into the jaws of Death,
Into the mouth of hell
   Rode the six hundred.

Quite simply it is like a bad marriage.easiest thing is to keep your head down and minimise the pain having failed to make changes. Making the break takes guts and life is uncertain for a while but does go on. People dont like uncertainty , that is why so many stick with a bad marriage. Unfortunately both sides are using uncertainty as a tool. The only thing that has been agreed so far apparently is what will happen to the people caught up in this. Except no one has told us what has been agreed!

I still stand by my assertion the day the result was announced that the establishment are working to keep us in the EU. Mays about turns are just a part of that. As is Blair popping up now and then in the EUcorridors.  What odds are there for PM Vince Cable?

I believe you are right as there is a growing public and political movement for at least a final referendum on the terms of leaving OR NOT, once we arrive at the end of "negotiations" and the public have a chance to really understand what is at stake and the consequences.

Vince Cable PM?  He would be a good one, but Tony Blair is the one to watch and Corbyn is a big no no!

[Varche]

Stranger things have happened. Look at Macron. No party to being in power.

What really surprised me was that a new party " brexit party" and by the same rationale " no Brexit party"werent born after the vote. Torys, lib dems and labour are so old hat. I suppose it costs so much nowadays to form a new party.

[Sir Tigger KC]

I think Nigel Farage is more likely to make a comeback than Blair who is probably the most unpopular person in British politics since Julius Caesar!   

[Nick W]

I think Nigel Farage is more likely to make a comeback than Blair who is probably the most unpopular person in British politics since Julius Caesar! 

What's particularly interesting is that he's tried to be the 'saviour of British politics' a couple of times this year, and the public's  reaction went from simple disbelief to just ignoring him. Of course his patronising attitude that only he understands all the issues well enough to explain why we're all wrong only exacerbates the effect. Hopefully we've seen the last of him.