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Author Topic: Nickel-Cobalt Batteries  (Read 683 times)

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TheBoy

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Re: Nickel-Cobalt Batteries
« Reply #15 on: 29 November 2017, 21:12:27 »

During my relatively short life I have seen mankind go from World War II aircraft to flying to the moon
So we need another extended period of world conflict....
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Re: Nickel-Cobalt Batteries
« Reply #16 on: 29 November 2017, 21:46:00 »

During my relatively short life I have seen mankind go from World War II aircraft to flying to the moon
So we need another extended period of world conflict....

Fear not TB the aliens are coming!  :)
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Rods2

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Re: Nickel-Cobalt Batteries
« Reply #17 on: 30 November 2017, 02:17:29 »

During my relatively short life I have seen mankind go from World War II aircraft to flying to the moon
So we need another extended period of world conflict....

Fear not TB the aliens are coming!  :)

Put on your tin hats as they took over the White House in January 2017 & are chomping at the bit to try out the Earths nuclear toys. :o :o :o
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Rods2

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Re: Nickel-Cobalt Batteries
« Reply #18 on: 30 November 2017, 02:39:10 »

Whats this black sticky stuff that comes out of the ground :-\ . Would that be any good? ;)


It's far too useful to just burn. We've had better ways of generating electricity for ages, but no one has come up with a better way of powering vehicles.

But we will :y :y


Believing that requires more faith than I'm capable of. None of the touted 'alternatives' are much of an improvement. What's required is a totally new technology, but we can't rely on those appearing.

During my relatively short life I have seen mankind go from World War II aircraft to flying to the moon.  He has invented the microwave, solar panels, very fast and small computers, mobile telephones, and vehicles that drive themselves, GPS, and so much advanced medical machinery, with techniques, that was thought impossible when I was 5.  Those are just what I can think of typing quickly, but there is so much more of course that we do not even know about (top secret and all that!)

Scientific advancement is getting faster, not slower, and new technology / discoveries are being made.  The great need for an advanced fuel / energy generating and storage system I am sure will be at the top of the agenda of so many corporations, let alone countries. Economics and greed, along with the occasional war, has always driven invention. This will still be the case in this instance. ;)

The problem is that climate fraud/tree huggers have turned our use and change from 200-year oil/gas reserves from a marathon into renewables in a few years at any price sprint. I'm sensible enough to understand that we are using up past sunlight/sun energy faster than nature replaces it and we need to capture more current sunlight/sun energy. But I'm also aware that EROEI has changed from 1960's cheap energy 20:1 to the current 5:1. Food shows us that our current intermittent energy storage is very inefficient at 1:10 against, apply that to the energy that we use to provide our food and we go from an average £20-30 per week per person to £200-300 or more. :( :( :(

I follow what is happening in in battery technology and it is evolving rapidly, the problem is there are currently always caveats along the lines of hopefully they will be available in 5-10 years time IF they can solve the outstanding major issues and scale and commercialize the technology. ::) ::) ::) This article is typical of where we are and where we might be going:

https://newatlas.com/solid-state-magnesium-battery/52386/
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Lizzie Zoom

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Re: Nickel-Cobalt Batteries
« Reply #19 on: 30 November 2017, 08:13:23 »

During my relatively short life I have seen mankind go from World War II aircraft to flying to the moon
So we need another extended period of world conflict....

Necessity is the mother of all invention, and major wars have brought on our technology in leeps and bounds...............no one wants wars as they are far too costly in all respects.......... however Trump and Kim Jon may have other ideas!!  Tin hats on folks! :o :o :o
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Re: Nickel-Cobalt Batteries
« Reply #20 on: 30 November 2017, 08:26:50 »

Kim Yong Un is much smarter than the blabbermouth Trump. By the time the cretin even thinks about military intervention, N Korea will have a deterrent large enough to make anyone think twice. It doesnít really matter that they donít have the capability to deliver a nuclear warhead to N America(yet), the fact that they are capable of wiping S Korea and, possibly, Japan off the map negates any serious military threat that America poses.
An added bonus, for N Korea, is that their leader does what he says heís going to do, and doesnít spend half the night ostracising his allies on twitter.
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STEMO

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Re: Nickel-Cobalt Batteries
« Reply #21 on: 30 November 2017, 08:27:30 »

Sorry, Rods, this started off about batteries.  ;D
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Sir Tigger QC

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Re: Nickel-Cobalt Batteries
« Reply #22 on: 30 November 2017, 09:01:37 »

Seeing as Kim Jong Un probably runs on Chinese batteries, I think you're still on topic Uncle STEMO!  :)
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Lizzie Zoom

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Re: Nickel-Cobalt Batteries
« Reply #23 on: 30 November 2017, 13:15:04 »

Seeing as Kim Jong Un probably runs on Chinese batteries, I think you're still on topic Uncle STEMO!  :)

As long as they are not Duracell, as "they last longer", we'll all be ok ! ;D ;D ;) 
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jimmy944

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Re: Nickel-Cobalt Batteries
« Reply #24 on: 30 November 2017, 20:55:03 »



The problem is that climate fraud/tree huggers have turned our use and change from 200-year oil/gas reserves from a marathon into renewables in a few years at any price sprint. I'm sensible enough to understand that we are using up past sunlight/sun energy faster than nature replaces it and we need to capture more current sunlight/sun energy. But I'm also aware that EROEI has changed from 1960's cheap energy 20:1 to the current 5:1. Food shows us that our current intermittent energy storage is very inefficient at 1:10 against, apply that to the energy that we use to provide our food and we go from an average £20-30 per week per person to £200-300 or more. :( :( :(

Surely looking at a single metric (EROEI) is far to much of a one-dimensional viewpoint? By that logic, we should have 100% coal fired energy (highest EROEI I think?) without any limitations, or gas scrubbers, or attempts to clean up the resulting environmental fallout (all of which would detract from the EROEI), but never mind that pursuing such a course would kill or shorten the lives of millions, as long as the metric is right?!  ::). Whether or not you believe in man-made global warming, it is impossible to reasonably deny the huge environmental damage that is done by extracting, processing and burning fossil fuels. Which, to some has as much or more value than a fairly abstract economic concept which changes over time.

I also notice you don't much advocate Hydro electric power, or wind, despite them scoring pretty highly on your all important EROEI metric.

 
I follow what is happening in in battery technology and it is evolving rapidly, the problem is there are currently always caveats along the lines of hopefully they will be available in 5-10 years time IF they can solve the outstanding major issues and scale and commercialise the technology.

You already have electric vehicles which are doing hundreds of thousands of miles on their original battery packs, indeed, Nissan and Renault are scaling back their Home Battery programmes due to a lack of available batteries that have "failed" (ie suffered unacceptable levels of capacity drop) in cars. Also, talking about battery technology and renewable energy in the context of cars only tells part of the story. The energy requirement to refine 1 (US) gallon of petrol is somewhere around 4 KWh (exact figures are hard to come by and doubtless vary) (or about 12-14 miles in an EV), and that doesn't include the energy expended (mostly fossil fuel and electricity) to drill the oil and transport it half way around the world.

If you re-deployed all that energy and into generating electricity, you could drive the electric car just as far, or further and leave the oil exactly where you found it.
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Field Marshal Dr. Opti

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Re: Nickel-Cobalt Batteries
« Reply #25 on: 01 December 2017, 12:03:34 »

I am sure the wit, and especially, the commercial needs of mankind will find answers for all our requires, so don't panic ::) ::) :D ;)

Gender specific......I like that. :y

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Lizzie Zoom

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Re: Nickel-Cobalt Batteries
« Reply #26 on: 01 December 2017, 13:41:55 »

I am sure the wit, and especially, the commercial needs of mankind will find answers for all our requires, so don't panic ::) ::) :D ;)

Gender specific......I like that. :y

No Opti, I used that word deliberately as this means:

mankind
noun
1.
human beings considered collectively; the human race.
"research for the benefit of all mankind"
synonyms:   the human race, man, humanity, human beings, humans, Homo sapiens, humankind, the human species, people, men and women


 ::) ::) ::) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D  :-* :-*;)
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Lizzie Zoom

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Re: Nickel-Cobalt Batteries
« Reply #27 on: 01 December 2017, 14:00:13 »



The problem is that climate fraud/tree huggers have turned our use and change from 200-year oil/gas reserves from a marathon into renewables in a few years at any price sprint. I'm sensible enough to understand that we are using up past sunlight/sun energy faster than nature replaces it and we need to capture more current sunlight/sun energy. But I'm also aware that EROEI has changed from 1960's cheap energy 20:1 to the current 5:1. Food shows us that our current intermittent energy storage is very inefficient at 1:10 against, apply that to the energy that we use to provide our food and we go from an average £20-30 per week per person to £200-300 or more. :( :( :(

Surely looking at a single metric (EROEI) is far to much of a one-dimensional viewpoint? By that logic, we should have 100% coal fired energy (highest EROEI I think?) without any limitations, or gas scrubbers, or attempts to clean up the resulting environmental fallout (all of which would detract from the EROEI), but never mind that pursuing such a course would kill or shorten the lives of millions, as long as the metric is right?!  ::). Whether or not you believe in man-made global warming, it is impossible to reasonably deny the huge environmental damage that is done by extracting, processing and burning fossil fuels. Which, to some has as much or more value than a fairly abstract economic concept which changes over time.

I also notice you don't much advocate Hydro electric power, or wind, despite them scoring pretty highly on your all important EROEI metric.

 
I follow what is happening in in battery technology and it is evolving rapidly, the problem is there are currently always caveats along the lines of hopefully they will be available in 5-10 years time IF they can solve the outstanding major issues and scale and commercialise the technology.

You already have electric vehicles which are doing hundreds of thousands of miles on their original battery packs, indeed, Nissan and Renault are scaling back their Home Battery programmes due to a lack of available batteries that have "failed" (ie suffered unacceptable levels of capacity drop) in cars. Also, talking about battery technology and renewable energy in the context of cars only tells part of the story. The energy requirement to refine 1 (US) gallon of petrol is somewhere around 4 KWh (exact figures are hard to come by and doubtless vary) (or about 12-14 miles in an EV), and that doesn't include the energy expended (mostly fossil fuel and electricity) to drill the oil and transport it half way around the world.

If you re-deployed all that energy and into generating electricity, you could drive the electric car just as far, or further and leave the oil exactly where you found it.

A well presented argument Jimmy944 :y :y

As for Rod2 using, yet again, "climate fraud/tree huggers", only degrades his point of view. So people who care about the environment and trying to do something about what man has been proved (just look around at all the evidence online and in real life) to have done, and slow it down, if not reverse it, are somehow lesser people than the likes of Rod.

I am far from a "tree hugger" as I have loved driving big engined, gas guzzling, cars for a great percentage of my driving life and even now,  for goodness sake, I have a 3.2 Omega!  But I have always respected and loved trees not only for their appearance but for what they do; sucking in C02 and trying to overcome the extra C02 that man has produced over the last 250 years that is beyond what nature can produce and absorb. I now understand, along with billions of others, that it is time to change if we want this planet to be livable on in decades to come.  We cannot carry on doing immense damage to it.  To claim that we are somehow tree huggers, sucked into some kind of fraud, is, frankly, only fit for The Sun or Daily Fail, not coming from the hand of someone who claims to be an academic and actually produces some very interesting pieces of work.
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Re: Nickel-Cobalt Batteries
« Reply #28 on: 02 December 2017, 17:08:59 »

Sorry Lizzie, but that last paragraph stands you as a hypocrite...

If you genuinely cared, you (or any one of us for that matter, tree hugging sandalists included), would ensure that our entire lives were devoted to negating our impact... by living off grid without processed products, ie only using materials that were locally available such as rock timber and mud and consuming only that which we could catch or grow.

The reality however is that there are far too many of us, and we've enough to concern ourselves with in regard to eeking the most out of food and energy to worry about the effects of the industrial revolution.

And I would wager that you put the heating on rather than a second jumper this last week ::)
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Lizzie Zoom

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Re: Nickel-Cobalt Batteries
« Reply #29 on: 02 December 2017, 19:38:37 »

Sorry Lizzie, but that last paragraph stands you as a hypocrite...

If you genuinely cared, you (or any one of us for that matter, tree hugging sandalists included), would ensure that our entire lives were devoted to negating our impact... by living off grid without processed products, ie only using materials that were locally available such as rock timber and mud and consuming only that which we could catch or grow.

The reality however is that there are far too many of us, and we've enough to concern ourselves with in regard to eeking the most out of food and energy to worry about the effects of the industrial revolution.

And I would wager that you put the heating on rather than a second jumper this last week ::)

Not a hypocrite DG, no more than most people in the western world.

I did put on an extra layer of clothes last week, but also turned the heating on just enough to give my well insulated, latest economically gas fired central heated, flat a chance to be comfortable.  I also made my roughly fortnightly trip to the recycling centre, then eat nothing but home cooked meals, with fresh veg and fruit snacks that produced little in the way of packaging. In addition I used my car on only two days. My electrical equipment is all rated "A"or better than that.  But yes, I breathed air and breathed out carbon dioxide, and had to go to the toilet.  But no plastics were flushed away, and I do not use beauty or washing products that contain that substance.  My whole flat is equipped with Eco bulbs, with only lights on when necessary and in limited quantity. I never tip any fats down the sink or toilet, or fly tip in any form.

Now, I believe that there is little more that I can do to save the planet other than kill myself. That applies to many environmentally friendly people today who still have to live and work in the context of 2017, and not in 1017.

What nationally can and is being done, like wind powered turbines, hydro plants (up North), gas fired, along with nuclear, power stations, low emission zones, electric car development, decline of the internal combustion engine, etc., will help us all to go further, together, and hopefully by 2050 give our grandchildren a far better world to look forward to, barring wars or natural disasters. :)

« Last Edit: 02 December 2017, 19:43:04 by Lizzie Zoom »
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