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Author Topic: Locking wheel nut problem  (Read 703 times)

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terry paget

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Locking wheel nut problem
« on: 02 December 2017, 12:57:37 »

My sister has bought a new Vauxhall Mokka. I used to service her old Meriva, but have never touched her Mokka, dealer does that. She had a puncture last Thursday, luckily near home. Car has no spare wheel, just an aerosol can. She walked home and summoned the breakdown service. The breakdown man recovered the car to a local tyre shop. Initially they could not find the locking wheel nut tool (LWNT), when they did it did not fit. She contacted her garage, who had done the service, and they admitted they must have mixed up the LWNTs. They delivered a box full of assorted LWNTs, none of which fitted. They provided a courtesy car, which she is still using.

Is there a master LWNT for Vauxhalls? How is this problem overcome in the trade?

I suppose another customer has her LWNT, and she has his. I wonder why they did not trace the guy?
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Re: Locking wheel nut problem
« Reply #1 on: 02 December 2017, 13:17:53 »

My sister has bought a new Vauxhall Mokka. I used to service her old Meriva, but have never touched her Mokka, dealer does that. She had a puncture last Thursday, luckily near home. Car has no spare wheel, just an aerosol can. She walked home and summoned the breakdown service. The breakdown man recovered the car to a local tyre shop. Initially they could not find the locking wheel nut tool (LWNT), when they did it did not fit. She contacted her garage, who had done the service, and they admitted they must have mixed up the LWNTs. They delivered a box full of assorted LWNTs, none of which fitted. They provided a courtesy car, which she is still using.

Is there a master LWNT for Vauxhalls? How is this problem overcome in the trade?

I suppose another customer has her LWNT, and she has his. I wonder why they did not trace the guy?
probably as well to change all 4 lwnt if she gets no joy. maybe the dealer would stand the cost as they admitted it was their fault
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tidla

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Re: Locking wheel nut problem
« Reply #2 on: 02 December 2017, 14:04:59 »

In the lock nut box or the service book folder should be a lock nut number.

I have been to the dealer with the number and bought a matching lock nut. Still made of chocolate so when you do get them off stick em in the bin.
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Re: Locking wheel nut problem
« Reply #3 on: 02 December 2017, 16:36:02 »

25 for new socket last time I had the misfortune
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terry paget

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Re: Locking wheel nut problem
« Reply #4 on: 02 December 2017, 20:50:48 »

Every time I buy a used Omega the first thing I do on getting home is take the wheels off, to make sure I can. After getting the wheel nuts off, I likely as not find the alloy wheels have rusted on and I cannot shift them. Only cure I know is to put back the wheel nuts, half a turn slack, and go for a short drive; that shifts them. Then I wire brush and grease the hubs and replace the wheels, using all standard screws - no locking screws- no-one is going to pinch my wheels. Then I check the spare, check it is legal and inflated, and a steel wheel, 'cos steel wheels are easier to fit than alloys. Check the jack works, add an extensible wheel nut spanner, and have my tea.
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Andy B

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Re: Locking wheel nut problem
« Reply #5 on: 02 December 2017, 20:55:58 »

Every time I buy a used Omega the .......

How many times has that been then?  :-\

I only ever bought 1  :y
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gstylebaby

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Re: Locking wheel nut problem
« Reply #6 on: 02 December 2017, 20:58:09 »

I worked on my wheels and stupidly left the locking wheel nut in the wheel.  I sent a photo to this company and they gave me the code to order the correct one it was a 10. I had been to Merc and the guy had tried all the masters that they had.
The company is www.lockingwheelnutkeys.co.uk
Great service. :y
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Webby the Bear

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Re: Locking wheel nut problem
« Reply #7 on: 02 December 2017, 21:00:13 »

Slightly off the subject of Vauxhall lock nut codes etc...

We have just bought a kit for removing lockers and I used it for the first time today. Holy shit this thing is awesome!!!!

So you get a brass thingy. Get the rough size that fits the unique locker shape. Bang it in. Being brass it's soft and adheres to the shape instantly. Brass thing has nut on it. Undo it. JD 👍👍👍
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terry paget

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Re: Locking wheel nut problem
« Reply #8 on: 02 December 2017, 22:23:46 »

Every time I buy a used Omega the .......

How many times has that been then?  :-\

I only ever bought 1  :y
15 at a guess.
I bought 2 in 2016, none in 2017. I usually but 1 or 2 a year, as my current 6 Omegas die. I expect to buy 2 next year, scrapping them as MOTs become due.
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Webby the Bear

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Re: Locking wheel nut problem
« Reply #9 on: 02 December 2017, 23:18:50 »

Every time I buy a used Omega the .......

How many times has that been then?  :-\

I only ever bought 1  :y
15 at a guess.
I bought 2 in 2016, none in 2017. I usually but 1 or 2 a year, as my current 6 Omegas die. I expect to buy 2 next year, scrapping them as MOTs become due.

 ;D
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Re: Locking wheel nut problem
« Reply #10 on: 03 December 2017, 07:43:42 »

I'm a moron. I meant to put...  :y

.... not  ;D

Lol
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johnnydog

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Re: Locking wheel nut problem
« Reply #11 on: 04 December 2017, 01:02:09 »


Is there a master LWNT for Vauxhalls? How is this problem overcome in the trade?

Most main dealers should have a master set of locking wheel nut keys. They use them when cars come in for service or tyres and the customer either hasn't left or the mechanics can't find the locking wheel nut key. It's usually a case of trying similar ones until they find the one that fits snugly. There is a letter stamped on the end of the key, which will identify it, and from this the correct one can be purchased if you haven't got the code.
If you intend to bin them (as I have), and can't get the car to the garage, I would take a photo of the pattern of the locking wheel nut, visit your friendly Vauxhall garage, and depending on how well you know your them, see if you can borrow the keys that are possibles. Take four ordinary bolts with you, and remove the bolts replacing them with the ordinary ones, before returning the master key.
It's better however if you can go in the car and do it on their forecourt, but if they know you, then they may help you out by lending you them, but it may depend on how much you've spend over the counter in the past!
I've done this before when I have bought cars without a locking wheel nut key, before finding out the hard way at the roadside with a flat tyre.......



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terry paget

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Re: Locking wheel nut problem
« Reply #12 on: 05 December 2017, 22:50:16 »

As possibly told before, I bought an Omega 2.2 Omega saloon at West Oxfordshire Motor Auctions ten years ago. The following day I tried to get the wheels off, but could not find the WNLT. In desperation I searched the documentation for any clue to the previous owner. Amazingly I found one, a document in the service register. It was a man in Bath. I rang him, and asked where the WNLT might be. He said it should be in the glove box; when I told him it was not he offered to ask his wife, as it had been her car. He returned with a chuckle, saying she had found it in her handbag. I drove to his house, and he gave it to me together with a spare box of bulbs.
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Nick W

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Re: Locking wheel nut problem
« Reply #13 on: 05 December 2017, 22:59:37 »

That's handy, you probably won't have to chisel them off before chucking them in the bin
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terry paget

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Re: Locking wheel nut problem
« Reply #14 on: 06 December 2017, 12:30:07 »

That's handy, you probably won't have to chisel them off before chucking them in the bin
So is that how you remove recalcitrant wheel nuts. Sounds feasible with a steel wheel, but tricky woith an alloy wheel with the nut deep within the wheel.

I learned this morning that my sister now has her own car back, with new locking wheel nuts and the WNLT in a box.I shall endeavour to persuade her to allow me to replace the locking wheel nuts with proper ones, and assist her to obtain a spare wheel.. 
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Webby the Bear

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Re: Locking wheel nut problem
« Reply #15 on: 06 December 2017, 18:14:20 »

There's a few different ways.

The kit I mentioned before does no damage to anything (wheel or lock nut).

I've seen someone put a blob of weld on the locker and then some Irwin stud extractors to wind them off via the aforementioned weld.

Chiselling (though I've never attempted it) I imagine would be difficult depending on how far they're recessed in.
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Re: Locking wheel nut problem
« Reply #16 on: 06 December 2017, 18:27:27 »

There's a number of different ways, from chiselling them off(if you have access), drilling them, welding a nut to them, or the various special tools that are guaranteed*** to work every time






*** that's a salesman's guarantee; so some of them work, some of the time. And if you're really lucky, you might manage to use the same tool on all four ;D
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terry paget

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Re: Locking wheel nut problem
« Reply #17 on: 06 December 2017, 20:14:49 »

As mentioned above, I have found alloy wheels, with their steel centres, rusted hard on the hubs. I tried kicking them, hitting them with hammers, to no avail. Only way I could shift them was to leave the wheel nuts half a turn loose, then go for a 2 mile drive; that never failed. Steel wheels were no trouble. Once off, a good wire brushing of the hubs, and some grease, ensured I could get the wheels off next time.
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Re: Locking wheel nut problem
« Reply #18 on: 06 December 2017, 22:27:10 »

As mentioned above, I have found alloy wheels, with their steel centres, rusted hard on the hubs. I tried kicking them, hitting them with hammers, to no avail. Only way I could shift them was to leave the wheel nuts half a turn loose, then go for a 2 mile drive; that never failed. Steel wheels were no trouble. Once off, a good wire brushing of the hubs, and some grease, ensured I could get the wheels off next time.

Large dead blow hammer works every time.
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Nick W

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Re: Locking wheel nut problem
« Reply #19 on: 06 December 2017, 22:31:58 »

As mentioned above, I have found alloy wheels, with their steel centres, rusted hard on the hubs. I tried kicking them, hitting them with hammers, to no avail. Only way I could shift them was to leave the wheel nuts half a turn loose, then go for a 2 mile drive; that never failed. Steel wheels were no trouble. Once off, a good wire brushing of the hubs, and some grease, ensured I could get the wheels off next time.

Large dead blow hammer works every time.


I like a long piece of 4x2. Which means you don't have to be under the car - something that's very important at the side of the road.
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Re: Locking wheel nut problem
« Reply #20 on: 06 December 2017, 22:35:43 »

Judging by all the methods of removal outlined here, is there any point in having locking wheel nuts? The great unwashed will already know this and will borrow your wheels in a trice if they want them.....

Ron.
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terry paget

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Re: Locking wheel nut problem
« Reply #21 on: 06 December 2017, 22:50:24 »

I appreciate my method presumes I can drive the car 2 miles - i.e. no puncture. Bigger hammer could work, but might damage an alloy wheel. Length of 4X2 good idea, but not something I wish to carry around, but fine for a recovery truck man.
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Bigron

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Re: Locking wheel nut problem
« Reply #22 on: 06 December 2017, 22:54:33 »

What, you wallop the crap out of it with the 4x2?

Ron.
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Re: Locking wheel nut problem
« Reply #23 on: 06 December 2017, 22:59:47 »

I appreciate my method presumes I can drive the car 2 miles - i.e. no puncture. Bigger hammer could work, but might damage an alloy wheel. Length of 4X2 good idea, but not something I wish to carry around, but fine for a recovery truck man.


The problem is the bare aluminium of the wheel reacts with the steel hub. When they're are tight fit to start with, they become very difficult to separate. If you clean the back of the wheel with some scotchbrite, wire brush the hub faces and apply a smear of coppergrease, you won't have a problem.
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Nick W

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Re: Locking wheel nut problem
« Reply #24 on: 06 December 2017, 23:00:34 »

What, you wallop the crap out of it with the 4x2?

Ron.


yes.
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johnnydog

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Re: Locking wheel nut problem
« Reply #25 on: 06 December 2017, 23:33:48 »

Judging by all the methods of removal outlined here, is there any point in having locking wheel nuts? The great unwashed will already know this and will borrow your wheels in a trice if they want them.....

Ron.

This might have been the case years ago when alloy wheels were a bit of a rarity and were only fitted to more prestige vehicles, but these days most cars have alloys, and usually only base models have steel wheels.
I don't think that alloy wheel theft is an issue today unless your vehicle is some exotic vehicle with rare or particularly expensive wheels.
This was another reason for getting rid of the locking wheel nuts on my Omegas.
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Re: Locking wheel nut problem
« Reply #26 on: 06 December 2017, 23:41:54 »

Although a new set of premium tyres, worth more than the car, might be worth nicking.
Ive binned mine too, as they are more hassle than they are worth.  :y
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Re: Locking wheel nut problem
« Reply #27 on: 07 December 2017, 11:34:37 »

Mine in the bin too. :y
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Re: Locking wheel nut problem
« Reply #28 on: 07 December 2017, 12:54:13 »

Should I try the scrappie for ordinary bolts, or are Vx prices sensible?

Ron.
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Re: Locking wheel nut problem
« Reply #29 on: 07 December 2017, 13:07:05 »

Most 'sensible' people put the wheel bolts they've removed in the tray in the plastic wheel bolt box with the locking key.
I presume you have looked? :D
Then again it depends whether the previous / first owner was sensible.....
I will guarantee that if you go to any scrappy, and have a look on the ground near any Vauxhall, you will find more than enough for your needs. They are invariably just left where they fell when the wheels are removed.
They have a weight stamped on the head - just make sure they are all the same as your existing bolts.
Failing that, I'm sure most OOFers on here will have a surplus of them.
PM me if you are struggling.....
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Re: Locking wheel nut problem
« Reply #30 on: 07 December 2017, 13:10:02 »

Should I try the scrappie for ordinary bolts, or are Vx prices sensible?

Ron.


New ones are about a quid. No need to go to a dealer. Your decision.
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Re: Locking wheel nut problem
« Reply #31 on: 07 December 2017, 13:47:00 »

As mentioned above, I have found alloy wheels, with their steel centres, rusted hard on the hubs. I tried kicking them, hitting them with hammers, to no avail. Only way I could shift them was to leave the wheel nuts half a turn loose, then go for a 2 mile drive; that never failed. Steel wheels were no trouble. Once off, a good wire brushing of the hubs, and some grease, ensured I could get the wheels off next time.

Large dead blow hammer works every time.
Just don't do that on a customer's car fitted with Irmscher wheels, else you might piss them off a bit when you've mangled their chocolate wheels (or use 4x2).

With crap wheels like the Irmscher ones, such as Sportstars, or even softer, MFL MV6 wheels, terry paget's idea works best...   ...though 2 miles is excessive, I do half the length of my drive, accelerating and braking briskly :y.  Only once have I had to do it more than once.


As Nick W says, when the wheel is off, clean up mating surfaces, and smear a bit of quality coppaslip, such as the Molyslip stuff (not the shite like carplan), and problem permenently solved :)
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Re: Locking wheel nut problem
« Reply #32 on: 07 December 2017, 13:47:31 »

Should I try the scrappie for ordinary bolts, or are Vx prices sensible?

Ron.

Ron, I may have some spares buried somewhere in my shed. Will try and have a look over the weekend and let you know.  :y
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Re: Locking wheel nut problem
« Reply #33 on: 07 December 2017, 13:48:56 »

Should I try the scrappie for ordinary bolts, or are Vx prices sensible?

Ron.
Available anywhere, even use from breakers here.

If not coming off a broekn Omega, just check length is right...   ...yes, I've driven off with bolts that were too long in one of mine  :-[  ;D
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Re: Locking wheel nut problem
« Reply #34 on: 07 December 2017, 14:22:42 »

As mentioned above, I have found alloy wheels, with their steel centres, rusted hard on the hubs. I tried kicking them, hitting them with hammers, to no avail. Only way I could shift them was to leave the wheel nuts half a turn loose, then go for a 2 mile drive; that never failed. Steel wheels were no trouble. Once off, a good wire brushing of the hubs, and some grease, ensured I could get the wheels off next time.

Large dead blow hammer works every time.
Just don't do that on a customer's car fitted with Irmscher wheels, else you might piss them off a bit when you've mangled their chocolate wheels (or use 4x2).

With crap wheels like the Irmscher ones, such as Sportstars, or even softer, MFL MV6 wheels, terry paget's idea works best...   ...though 2 miles is excessive, I do half the length of my drive, accelerating and braking briskly :y.  Only once have I had to do it more than once.


As Nick W says, when the wheel is off, clean up mating surfaces, and smear a bit of quality coppaslip, such as the Molyslip stuff (not the shite like carplan), and problem permenently solved :)

Genuinely never had any irmschers in but point taken  :y
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Re: Locking wheel nut problem
« Reply #35 on: 07 December 2017, 16:29:49 »

My sister has gone to Dorset today to bury a 100 year old chum, The Mokka has 19" wheels, but 5 screw fitting like the Omega. I imagine an Omega wheel would not fit, but I suppose it might, as long as it did not foul the brake caliper. Does anybody know?
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Re: Locking wheel nut problem
« Reply #36 on: 11 December 2017, 22:36:48 »

My sister came round yesterday with her car, and I intended to replace her locking wheel nuts with 4 Omega straight wheel screws - no chance, The Mokka uses nuts, not screws, and in the box containing the LWNRT were no simple nuts, so I could not replace the locking nuts with simple nuts. So next time she gets a puncture, she will again have to phone the AA and let them recover her and car to a tyre shop, and good luck to her.
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Re: Locking wheel nut problem
« Reply #37 on: 12 December 2017, 18:33:25 »

Pcd is different on the newer generation of 5 stud vauxhalls, too, sadly. 5 x 120 rings a bell.  :(
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Re: Locking wheel nut problem
« Reply #38 on: 13 December 2017, 13:59:58 »

Pcd is different on the newer generation of 5 stud vauxhalls, too, sadly. 5 x 120 rings a bell.  :(
Certainly the case with the Insignia... wheel nuts are 21 (iirc)mm too :o
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