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Author Topic: 309-305  (Read 8158 times)

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Migv6 le Frog Fan

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Re: 309-305
« Reply #45 on: 14 December 2017, 19:15:55 »

.........OR, being cynical, is it possible that "the rebels" want to derail the Brexit process and see May go so they can organise a new approach to remain in the EU, but in a far simplified form? ::) ::) ::)

We got there in the end.  :y
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Sir Tigger KC

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Re: 309-305
« Reply #46 on: 14 December 2017, 19:22:04 »

.........OR, being cynical, is it possible that "the rebels" want to derail the Brexit process and see May go so they can organise a new approach to remain in the EU, but in a far simplified form? ::) ::) ::)

Cameron tried to renegotiate the terms of our membership but spectacularly failed!  ::)

You are in cloud cuckoo land if you think that now they will let us stay on simplified terms!  If anything they will try and bind us in tighter if we try to change our mind!  ::)  The rebate will go, the Euro will be a reality, Schengen will be a reality and our armed forces will be commanded from Brussels as well!  >:(  And that's just for starters!  :D
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Lizzie Zoom

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Re: 309-305
« Reply #47 on: 14 December 2017, 19:29:43 »

Many, possibly most of the Tory rebels who voted against the Govt. last night represent constituencies which voted to leave.  ;)

That is democracy in action as they know that Brexit should happen but are unhappy about what May and Team have "agreed" or not agreed so far ;)

Wrong again. Its patently obvious that they are trying to stop Brexit, but still claim that wasn't what they intended after they have done it.
Lord Adonis let the cat out of the bag this morning "this is the first step in stopping Brexit".

Really?  You are just supporting my last post! ;D ;)

Ah, just seen your latest post!! ;D ;D ;D :y
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Lizzie Zoom

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Re: 309-305
« Reply #48 on: 14 December 2017, 19:34:16 »

.........OR, being cynical, is it possible that "the rebels" want to derail the Brexit process and see May go so they can organise a new approach to remain in the EU, but in a far simplified form? ::) ::) ::)

Cameron tried to renegotiate the terms of our membership but spectacularly failed!  ::)

You are in cloud cuckoo land if you think that now they will let us stay on simplified terms!  If anything they will try and bind us in tighter if we try to change our mind!  ::)  The rebate will go, the Euro will be a reality, Schengen will be a reality and our armed forces will be commanded from Brussels as well!  >:(  And that's just for starters!  :D

Did I say this is all so easy, and Brexit can be a very straightforward process with everyone being satisfied and happy?

Now if you think that you are living in cloud cuckoo land.  This is all a mess, just like politics often is, but in this case on a massive national scale.  Politics is NEVER straightforward and is to many involved just a game of power; like chess, but with reality involved.

In the past it has got us involved in wars, as those who are in power do not have to fight them.  This time it is the political and economic future of our nation and it's people's at stake (oh, just like when we have a war!!) ::) ::) ::) ;)
« Last Edit: 14 December 2017, 19:37:38 by Lizzie Zoom »
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Migv6 le Frog Fan

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Re: 309-305
« Reply #49 on: 14 December 2017, 19:38:07 »

I was still typing my post when you posted yours. ;)
Sir Tigger is absolutely correct. If we try to leave and fail, there will be no more pretence of making allowances for the British "reluctant Europeans".
They are in the process of taking over member states armed forces and are planning an EU treasury and much much more.
Schulz said last week that we must have U.S.E.by 2025, and those who wont agree to it will be expelled, without any trade deal etc.
Verhofstadt voiced his agreement soon after. Its going to happen, its just a matter of when.Its widely known that this was the plan right from the start. It amazes me that anyone could even doubt it.
We are getting out at the right time. If we dont,we will become members of a federal superstate and lose any pretence of being a sovereign nation.
Then of course it will collapse at some point, and with our level of national debt, we would become the new Greece.
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Lizzie Zoom

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Re: 309-305
« Reply #50 on: 14 December 2017, 19:41:29 »

I was still typing my post when you posted yours. ;)
Sir Tigger is absolutely correct. If we try to leave and fail, there will be no more pretence of making allowances for the British "reluctant Europeans".
They are in the process of taking over member states armed forces and are planning an EU treasury and much much more.
Schulz said last week that we must have U.S.E.by 2025, and those who wont agree to it will be expelled, without any trade deal etc.
Verhofstadt voiced his agreement soon after. Its going to happen, its just a matter of when.Its widely known that this was the plan right from the start. It amazes me that anyone could even doubt it.
We are getting out at the right time. If we dont,we will become members of a federal superstate and lose any pretence of being a sovereign nation.
Then of course it will collapse at some point, and with our level of national debt, we would become the new Greece.


That is why, with all the 'dangle berries' that is now going on, even I just want to LEAVE NOW!

But, as I said, politics is never straightforward OR HONEST! ::) ::) ::)
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Migv6 le Frog Fan

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Re: 309-305
« Reply #51 on: 14 December 2017, 19:45:32 »

I can understand that. Ive spoken to quite a few people who, on balance, vote remain due to the things being said by Cameron. Osborne etc. But would now vote leave if they had the chance, due to the EU attitude to the UK recently. But above all, just want them to bloody get on with it and get the job done.
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Shackeng

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Re: 309-305
« Reply #52 on: 14 December 2017, 19:51:23 »

It is perhaps worth revisiting the table here http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/0/leave-or-remain-eu-referendum-results-and-live-maps/ to see that apart from Norn Irn, Scotland and London the country voted overwhelmingly  Leave, but one would think by the remoaners whingeing that it was a damn close run thing. I think the map in the link says it all. >:( >:( >:(
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Lizzie Zoom

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Re: 309-305
« Reply #53 on: 14 December 2017, 20:06:03 »

I can understand that. Ive spoken to quite a few people who, on balance, vote remain due to the things being said by Cameron. Osborne etc. But would now vote leave if they had the chance, due to the EU attitude to the UK recently. But above all, just want them to bloody get on with it and get the job done.

That is it now.  Enough is enough.  The way the EU is treating us is just wrong.  They
are showing the very flaws, and more, that made me vote "No" in 1975 to the Common Market, but I have given it (the EU) a chance to do good.  Now, the longer Brexit goes on the less time I have with it all; the pure dictatorship that the 27 are trying to put over on us.  They have just gone too far, and the EU dream has become a nightmare.  Observers are right in recognising this in fact could be the end of the EU.  We have just got to leave now, without looking back, no matter what the costs and negative implications are ( the reason why I voted to remain). Well that is over.  Long live Great Britain :y
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Rods2

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Re: 309-305
« Reply #54 on: 14 December 2017, 20:39:15 »

I can understand that. Ive spoken to quite a few people who, on balance, vote remain due to the things being said by Cameron. Osborne etc. But would now vote leave if they had the chance, due to the EU attitude to the UK recently. But above all, just want them to bloody get on with it and get the job done.

I saw a poll last week on how much opinions have hardened towards the Government getting on with #Brexit. Those that still wanted to Remain by allegiance to a political party was 21% for Conservative voters, 26% for Labour and the highest for for the Libdems on 31%. I know several people who only voted remain due to their worries about Project Fear and when that didn't happen the would vote Leave now. :y

The fact that the EUSSR is a political project and a dictatorship means it will end very badly like these things always do when the politicians aren't held to account, hired and fired by the people through the ballot box. The Euro is having the opposite effect of bringing economies closer together and is partly due to the lack of democratic accountability where all ECB decisions are made by Germans to make Germany stronger economically. The deliberate positive trade balance that Germany has with the rest of the EU and a refusal of cash transfers to weaker poorer countries can only end up with the current account being balanced by the deficit countries selling companies and other assets to Germany. Will Germany end up owning most of the other EU countries assets or will the EUSSR fail first?
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Sir Tigger KC

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Re: 309-305
« Reply #55 on: 14 December 2017, 21:09:29 »

I can understand that. Ive spoken to quite a few people who, on balance, vote remain due to the things being said by Cameron. Osborne etc. But would now vote leave if they had the chance, due to the EU attitude to the UK recently. But above all, just want them to bloody get on with it and get the job done.

That is it now.  Enough is enough.  The way the EU is treating us is just wrong.  They
are showing the very flaws, and more, that made me vote "No" in 1975 to the Common Market, but I have given it (the EU) a chance to do good.  Now, the longer Brexit goes on the less time I have with it all; the pure dictatorship that the 27 are trying to put over on us.  They have just gone too far, and the EU dream has become a nightmare.  Observers are right in recognising this in fact could be the end of the EU.  We have just got to leave now, without looking back, no matter what the costs and negative implications are ( the reason why I voted to remain). Well that is over.  Long live Great Britain :y

Bloody hell Lizzie, you've changed your tune!!  :o :o :o  ;D ;D ;D  :y :y :y
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Lizzie Zoom

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Re: 309-305
« Reply #56 on: 14 December 2017, 22:05:34 »

I can understand that. Ive spoken to quite a few people who, on balance, vote remain due to the things being said by Cameron. Osborne etc. But would now vote leave if they had the chance, due to the EU attitude to the UK recently. But above all, just want them to bloody get on with it and get the job done.

That is it now.  Enough is enough.  The way the EU is treating us is just wrong.  They
are showing the very flaws, and more, that made me vote "No" in 1975 to the Common Market, but I have given it (the EU) a chance to do good.  Now, the longer Brexit goes on the less time I have with it all; the pure dictatorship that the 27 are trying to put over on us.  They have just gone too far, and the EU dream has become a nightmare.  Observers are right in recognising this in fact could be the end of the EU.  We have just got to leave now, without looking back, no matter what the costs and negative implications are ( the reason why I voted to remain). Well that is over.  Long live Great Britain :y

Bloody hell Lizzie, you've changed your tune!!  :o :o :o  ;D ;D ;D  :y :y :y

Oh yes, like any good politician you have to know when the situation has changed enough for you to review how you stand and act accordingly.  All the greats have done that in the past :y :y
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Lizzie Zoom

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Re: 309-305
« Reply #57 on: 14 December 2017, 22:15:51 »

................I would add though that my observations about satisfying the whole UK population with a good, sensible Brexit still stand, and I would expect all our MP's to act in a responsible manner to achieve that.  We cannot end up with a right shambles of a deal, and leave our country divided; that would be politically very damaging and a real threat to national unity.

I can but hope with the rest of you! ;)
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Sir Tigger KC

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Re: 309-305
« Reply #58 on: 14 December 2017, 22:27:42 »

Sadly I think that Britain's membership of the EU or lack of it will always be a running sore in this country.....  :-\
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RIP Paul 'Luvvie' Lovejoy

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Rods2

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Re: 309-305
« Reply #59 on: 14 December 2017, 22:32:42 »

We must hope that we have a deal which doesn't severely harm bilateral trade. This is in the interests of member states but probably not the EU commission as their jobs won't be riding on the end result unlike all elected politicians in the UK and EU member states. Recessions tend to end political careers as Gordon McRuin found out. ;)
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