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Author Topic: Boris Bridge  (Read 3677 times)

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Nick W

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Re: Boris Bridge
« Reply #15 on: 20 January 2018, 00:14:19 »

It's typical Boris misdirection to hide a monumental opps up.


We'll find out in a couple of weeks that he's signed an irreversible deal with the Krikkitmen, and we're all bound into slavery for eternity.
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Lizzie Zoom

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Re: Boris Bridge
« Reply #16 on: 20 January 2018, 14:30:46 »

No, lightships are a completely different thing altogether... :P

Lizzie only mentions is because Ashford is already a convenient lorry park. No one else mentioned it because they neither live in Ashford, nor particularly care. ::)

Ah, but what travels past Ashford goes on to other linking motorways, like the M25 going over the Thames or under it at Dartford.  The other way it clogs up the M25 all the way around to Heathrow / Junction with M4 then Junction with M40. Now if you believe that those motorways can take a very significant rise in lorry and other vehicle traffic, just get onto those roads during the rush hours, or when something goes wrong, which frequently happens.

The Chunnel and the ferries space out the traffic due to their departure / arrival times.   With the bridge traffic it would be endless, being only held up with toll like booths checking all documents (after Brexit very strict checking in both directions) and vehicles pulled over for in-depth searches. Now how would the queues for those checks be managed with a far heavier flow of road traffic over the bridge than currently with existing methods of crossing?

As for shipping being a danger to the bridge, it is worth considering that 500-600 ships a day pass through the Dover Narrows, just where Boris is suggesting the bridge should be built. It is already narrow, and a concrete structure with pylons at regular intervals up to the point of the main suspended span would make the shipping lanes very narrow for ships that are up to 400m long, 60m wide, and with a gross tonnage of up to 200,000 tons travelling at a speed of up to 24 knots, heading towards one another.  There is then the ferry traffic that crosses these lanes. Not only of course have you got the container ships, but you have numerous huge cruise ships that are overall not much smaller than the former and carry thousands of passengers.

Now a new regime of radar control has greatly reduced the accidents, but they can still happen due to the weather (such as the high wind speeds through the Channel), loss of power, or human failings with such heavy shipping movements.  If just one of these shipping monsters were to hit one of the main bridge supports it would cause a disaster for the people on the bridge and the ship.

So the question is, why a bridge anyway?  It was decided that a rail tunnel would be built instead of a road tunnel, and we ended up with the Chunnel.  Why not now build a road tunnel?  Yes, you will still have security, customs issues and road traffic issues, but risk to shipping would be zero, as would the effects of gale force winds that often close our domestic inland suspension bridges, that are far more frequent in the Channel.

But, after all said and done with Brexit who will invest billions in either another crossing of the channel no matter what it is?  If they did, I would favour another rail tunnel, but for freight only! ;)
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Rods2

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Re: Boris Bridge
« Reply #17 on: 20 January 2018, 16:04:39 »

It is very easy to stop the pillars from being hit, you do the same as other designs with light buoy marked safety outer walls which ships can hit without damaging the pillars. :y

If you've used the Chunnel several times too promise to never use it again because of chronic delays for both cars/freight and Eurostar trains and money grabbing customer service that make Ryanair look like generous philanthropists. Stuck on a delayed Eurostar train for hours in pleb class with all food and refreshment kiosks shut was great fun NOT. >:(  How does spending vast amounts in doubling the capacity for a despised system that many won't use help? >:( >:( >:(

Flying or ferries for me if I need to go to Europe if the only alternative is the Chunnel I will stay at home. I have very rarely been delayed on 100's of ferry crossings between UK to France and back and then normally only in exceptionally bad weather. :y
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Doctor Gollum

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Re: Boris Bridge
« Reply #18 on: 20 January 2018, 16:05:03 »

A constant stream would actually improve flow ::)

But let's not let facts ruin yet another perfectly good Daily Fail story ;D
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Lizzie Zoom

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Re: Boris Bridge
« Reply #19 on: 20 January 2018, 18:15:53 »

It is very easy to stop the pillars from being hit, you do the same as other designs with light buoy marked safety outer walls which ships can hit without damaging the pillars. :y

If you've used the Chunnel several times too promise to never use it again because of chronic delays for both cars/freight and Eurostar trains and money grabbing customer service that make Ryanair look like generous philanthropists. Stuck on a delayed Eurostar train for hours in pleb class with all food and refreshment kiosks shut was great fun NOT. >:(  How does spending vast amounts in doubling the capacity for a despised system that many won't use help? >:( >:( >:(

Flying or ferries for me if I need to go to Europe if the only alternative is the Chunnel I will stay at home. I have very rarely been delayed on 100's of ferry crossings between UK to France and back and then normally only in exceptionally bad weather. :y

You obviously have faith Rod in barriers.  But, after watching motorway barriers fail so spectacularly when hit in a certain way by HGV's, I do not have such faith.  I do though understand what you are saying, but............

a tanker, container ship, or cruise liner with a weight of up to 200,000 tonnes, traveling at say 20 knots, will take a long time to stop completely (some experts say up to 20 minutes) in calm weather, but in rough, gale force conditions, with the ship pitching on the storm tossed sea..?

Look at some examples of what can go wrong with bridges over rivers, not even across a sea, but also in the same document it also explains how the defence of bridge supports from ship collision could be done: :
http://www.ltrc.lsu.edu/ltc_13/pdf/presentations/S13_Design%20and%20Construction%20of%20Recent%20Bridge%20Pier%20Protection_LTC2013.pdf

But, look at those suggested barriers; could they really stop a ship of 200,000 tonnes, with a beam of 400m, and a height of 70m plus travelling at speed, with the gale force winds behind it, and pitching vertically another 4 metres, giving a ships "reach" up the pillar (and over the barrier?) of perhaps 80 metres?  Just one bow strike on a bridge support with the force behind a  ship travelling at 20 knot could be enough. And what if two colliding large ships made contact with the bridge?  I certainly would not want to be on that bridge at the time! :o :o ;)


 
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BazaJT

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Re: Boris Bridge
« Reply #20 on: 20 January 2018, 18:19:30 »

Discussing this at work and we have the answer :y Get a load of RO/RO ferries and string them bow to stern across the channel,that way traffic can use the load decks as a tunnel.Using a "traffic light"system the tunnel can then be opened/closed[by tugs or similar]to allow shipping through in "blocks".See job sorted :D :D ;D
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Doctor Gollum

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Re: Boris Bridge
« Reply #21 on: 20 January 2018, 18:27:34 »

Lizzie, apply a spot of thought before typing  ;)

A container ship is highly unlikely to be doing 20 knots in such conditions... 5-10 more likely...
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Lizzie Zoom

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Re: Boris Bridge
« Reply #22 on: 20 January 2018, 18:38:54 »

Lizzie, apply a spot of thought before typing ;)

A container ship is highly unlikely to be doing 20 knots in such conditions... 5-10 more likely...

And read my post properly before criticising! ::) ::)

I stated a ship could be doing up to 20 knots in calm conditions, and implied in "rough, gale force condition with the ship pitching on storm tossed seas" the ship could be affected by a aft wind pushing a very high sided ship forward at speeds of up to 20 knots.. :)

But, in any case with container ships, as with all freight vessels, time is money, I would suggest that perhaps some captains will keep their ships, which are huge, travelling at near to a very steady speed.  If ever you have watched large container ships out in the English Channel as I have from the shore, even in heavy seas they maintain forward movement at a tidy pace.
« Last Edit: 20 January 2018, 18:40:27 by Lizzie Zoom »
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Lizzie Zoom

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Re: Boris Bridge
« Reply #23 on: 20 January 2018, 19:02:55 »

Lizzie, apply a spot of thought before typing ;)

A container ship is highly unlikely to be doing 20 knots in such conditions... 5-10 more likely...

And read my post properly before criticising! ::) ::)

I stated a ship could be doing up to 20 knots in calm conditions, and implied in "rough, gale force condition with the ship pitching on storm tossed seas" the ship could be affected by a aft wind pushing a very high sided ship forward at speeds of up to 20 knots.. :)

But, in any case with container ships, as with all freight vessels, time is money, I would suggest that perhaps some captains will keep their ships, which are huge, travelling at near to a very steady speed.  If ever you have watched large container ships out in the English Channel as I have from the shore, even in heavy seas they maintain forward movement at a tidy pace.

SORRY DG!  Reading my piece again I can understand why you read it as you did. :-[ :-[

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Rods2

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Re: Boris Bridge
« Reply #24 on: 20 January 2018, 19:42:41 »

During WWI US political analyst was asked by a reporter how he would solve the U-Boat crisis. He thought for a minute and said drain the Atlantic. :o :o :o When the reporter asked, how will you do that? The analyst replied not my problem, I invent political policy, not implement it. ;D ;D ;D

So I would suggest create a new ice age and the North sea will dry up again. ::) ::) ::)

And this will probably happen before the Boris bridge is even at the planning stage. ;D ;D ;D
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Lizzie Zoom

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Re: Boris Bridge
« Reply #25 on: 20 January 2018, 20:26:01 »

During WWI US political analyst was asked by a reporter how he would solve the U-Boat crisis. He thought for a minute and said drain the Atlantic. :o :o :o When the reporter asked, how will you do that? The analyst replied not my problem, I invent political policy, not implement it. ;D ;D ;D

So I would suggest create a new ice age and the North sea will dry up again. ::) ::) ::)

And this will probably happen before the Boris bridge is even at the planning stage. ;D ;D ;D

Yep, and a nuclear winter would give us that. ;)
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BazaJT

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Re: Boris Bridge
« Reply #26 on: 20 January 2018, 20:33:16 »

Sounds a bit of a harsh way of doing the job though,couldn't we just find the plug and pull it out and let it drain that way? :D
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Migv6 le Frog Fan

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Re: Boris Bridge
« Reply #27 on: 20 January 2018, 22:44:01 »

Boris can build his bridge if he wants, but that the chunnel or any other means of transport will never tempt me to go to France.
I have never set foot in the place and I never will.  :)
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Sir Tigger KC

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Re: Boris Bridge
« Reply #28 on: 20 January 2018, 23:23:00 »

Perhaps we could get JC to part the waves!  ::)  :D

Ahem!  ::)
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Re: Boris Bridge
« Reply #29 on: 20 January 2018, 23:42:05 »

Boris can build his bridge if he wants, but that the chunnel or any other means of transport will never tempt me to go to France.
I have never set foot in the place and I never will.  :)





Quite agree got no inclination to ever go there.
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