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Author Topic: Coolant leak when car stood for a few days.  (Read 6211 times)

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addy

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Coolant leak when car stood for a few days.
« on: 17 June 2018, 15:25:16 »

It probably has already been answered on here but I cann't find it. So here goes, I have a 02 2.6 that seems to lose coolant from the coolant tank so you can see the top of the thing inside the tank, after standing for nearly a week enough to put on the coolant low warning. After putting the ignition on without starting the car, pressing the brake to remove the check message, it is replaced by the coolant warning one.  I have looked for physical signs both inside the car up under the dash, in the footwells near the HBV as best I can using my hand to check for leaks. Smelt the coolant in the coolant tank for petrol smell nothing, just had a oil change and no water contaminants in it. No oil contaminants in the coolant. The car doesn't overheat and stays at normal temperature, also heater works on hot and cold no problem. I have looked underneath the coolant tank incase it is leaking from underneath, but nothing can be seen. No white or steam coming from the exhaust when the engine is running.

I know when the car is turned off there is no vacuum, so would the HBV be allowed to leak, because of no Vacuum going to it(if that makes sense)? There is no sign of escaping water from it, when the car is running.

Thanks for any replies. I do have a HBV to replace it, I just thought I would ask more knowledgeable people.
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Doctor Gollum

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Re: Coolant leak when car stood for a few days.
« Reply #1 on: 17 June 2018, 15:39:38 »

Did you bleed it following coolant change?

Temp to HI on both sides, fan manually down to one bar. Top up. Let it run with the cap off until the fans kick in. Top up. Refit cap fully. Run until fan kicks in. Recheck level.

Try that and report back. If it's still dropping, we can address that later :y
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addy

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Re: Coolant leak when car stood for a few days.
« Reply #2 on: 17 June 2018, 16:47:31 »

No will try that thank you.
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Re: Coolant leak when car stood for a few days.
« Reply #3 on: 20 June 2018, 11:09:12 »

This site is a great site with lots of knowledge for me to learn.

addy

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Re: Coolant leak when car stood for a few days.
« Reply #4 on: 15 July 2018, 09:35:46 »

Doctor Gollum. I thank you for your suggestion. I did as you said about bleeding it. When the fan kicked in it dumped loads of coolant out along with loads of air. But still the level had dropped the next day. So I did it again this time, I used a funnel in the neck of the coolant tank and filled it until I could just see it inside the neck of the funnel, then squashed the radiator hoses while the car was running, with the heater settings as you said. The amount of air still in there was amazing, it took three goes to get it all out and nearly 3ltrs of new coolant, and waiting for the fan to keep kicking in and keeping the level topped up all fun. I have checked the level for the last two days and it is on the full mark, also the radiator pipes cannot be crushed so easy like they were before the burping.  The heater in the car is really hot aswell. If the level stays ok for a while, then I am going to flush the system, as the coolant didn't look 100% the person who had it before me had used Blue, the car was built in 2001 but registered in 2002, so would it use red or blue?

Thank you, to all of you who replied.
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johnnydog

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Re: Coolant leak when car stood for a few days.
« Reply #5 on: 15 July 2018, 12:42:25 »

The coolant used should be red. Original Vauxhall coolant is red and should be mixed 50/50.
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addy

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Re: Coolant leak when car stood for a few days.
« Reply #6 on: 15 July 2018, 15:58:06 »

Thought it might be red, will wait for a bit longer to see if the coolant loss, was just air in system. If it was just that will get coolant changed.

Thanks
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tigers_gonads

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Re: Coolant leak when car stood for a few days.
« Reply #7 on: 15 July 2018, 21:46:27 »

The red stuff is OAT which iirc is what should be used on Omega's.
Personally, I haven't got a trade card anymore and don't see the point of paying for diluted stuff so I buy OAT red concentrate and mix it myself  :y
Never had a problem  :y
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Re: Coolant leak when car stood for a few days.
« Reply #8 on: 15 July 2018, 22:04:01 »

Pretty sure you can get red in both OAT and non OAT,but wouldn't swear to it without looking it up.I just use the cheapo blue stuff at present it does well enough for an 18yr old car.People keep trying to sell me 10yr stuff but whether I've got 10yrs left-debatable-the car certainly hasn't,so I'm not buying that!!
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Nick W

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Re: Coolant leak when car stood for a few days.
« Reply #9 on: 15 July 2018, 22:15:04 »

one of these old heaps will be so incontinent that insisting on long-life coolant is a bit pointless ;D


If it's got red in it, then use that. Mine came with blue, and that's what I use in it.
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Re: Coolant leak when car stood for a few days.
« Reply #10 on: 15 July 2018, 22:17:13 »

Ah yes, good old servicing by top up...  :D
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Re: Coolant leak when car stood for a few days.
« Reply #11 on: 16 July 2018, 17:45:26 »

one of these old heaps will be so incontinent that insisting on long-life coolant is a bit pointless ;D


If it's got red in it, then use that. Mine came with blue, and that's what I use in it.
I use red, just so I only have to change it every 3 years on so, rather than annually.  Cost is about the same, and the effort is the same, and I'm a lazy bastid :D
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Nick W

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Re: Coolant leak when car stood for a few days.
« Reply #12 on: 16 July 2018, 17:58:33 »

I use red, just so I only have to change it every 3 years on so, rather than annually.  Cost is about the same, and the effort is the same, and I'm a lazy bastid :D


I've never seen the need to change it annually, so don't bother.

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Re: Coolant leak when car stood for a few days.
« Reply #13 on: 16 July 2018, 18:43:40 »

Thanks for all the replies, I will stick with the blue coolant seen as that is what was in it.  I checked the level of fluid last night and it was still on the full mark, after 3 days. The wife drove it last night and today and said no there were no problems, and the coolant warning didn't come on. I went to go out in it and the coolant warning was back on, when I checked the level it was just below the white dome thing inside the coolant tank, would this just be the car finding its proper level, now it has had a good drive? There is no water under the car, where it has been parked, also listened for anything that sounded like water escaping under pressure and nothing.

The coolant is still the same as it was before, no oil in it. And no water on the dipstick.
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terry paget

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Re: Coolant leak when car stood for a few days.
« Reply #14 on: 16 July 2018, 19:35:00 »

Are you sure it is not a leaking radiator, like I suffered recently? A small leak in the header tank will be concealed by the radiator cover plate, and if only a pinhole will leak only when hot and under pressure, and not be obvious.

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Alnico Blue

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Re: Coolant leak when car stood for a few days.
« Reply #15 on: 16 July 2018, 20:39:46 »

I'm with Terry on this  . . . thinking that you probably have a small leak. The problem is a very small leak will evaporate & you won't see a visible leak or pool on the ground.

Black plastic sides & top  of the rad are a common place & often hidden from view .  Small HBV leak is another.

Coolant bridge another possibility.   

 I had a very small leak for a long time & just could not find it, although could often smell the leaking coolant aroma when hot.  Eventually on a very cold day after a decent run when the car had reached full temp, after  been parked up for 5 or so minutes , I lifted the bonnet to see a very small column of steam rising from the passenger side of the rad . This leak & resulting fine crack in the rad plastic was only visible once rad was removed . The top passenger side corner of the rad is a very common place to crack as plastic becomes very brittle with age  IMO.

Removing the 3 black plastic cover panels across the front of the rad area may help in visibly seeing it though

A coolant system pressure test would probably confirm you have an issue . Others will advise on this as never done one myself.    HTH :y
« Last Edit: 16 July 2018, 20:51:24 by Alnico Blue »
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Re: Coolant leak when car stood for a few days.
« Reply #16 on: 16 July 2018, 21:14:03 »

I had a tiny hole in base of rad it took a long time to detect.
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addy

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Re: Coolant leak when car stood for a few days.
« Reply #17 on: 18 July 2018, 08:57:42 »

Thanks everyone for the replies. I think everyone who said leaking radiator, might be right.  I decided to remove the centre panel over the radiator (now got to get another one as had to break it, due to rust screw heads). When I looked on the passenger side, at the top where the plastic is that holds the back radiator to the front one it had a slightly wet part, and down the side of the radiator was a trail of what looked like old coolant. I am hoping to do a pressure test, to confirm it.

Will this radiator fit my 2002 2.6 Automatic with Air Conditioning, when I did compatability check it said no? If not is there one that will work?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BRAND-NEW-RADIATOR-VAUXHALL-OMEGA-B-MK2-1994-TO-2003-2-5-2-6-3-0-3-2-PETROL/272860595341?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649#vi-ilComp

The area circled is where it looks like it is leaking.


Also is there a easy way to remove the radiator, cannot find a how to in the maintenance section.

Thanks again for all the help.
« Last Edit: 18 July 2018, 08:59:50 by addy »
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LC0112G

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Re: Coolant leak when car stood for a few days.
« Reply #18 on: 18 July 2018, 10:13:25 »

Also is there a easy way to remove the radiator,

In a word, no.

Before you start, buy one of these (or similar). It's cheap, wont last long, but will save hours of faffing with mole grips trying to get the hose clamps on/off, and will reduce your blood pressure from eyeball bursting levels.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Blue-Spot-Tools-Flexible-Spring-Hose-Clip-Clamp-Plier-Remover-Removal-Tool-07921/162160705278?epid=1964514964&hash=item25c187fefe:g:XgwAAOSwdzVXpeuT

Drain the water from the engine. Remove the induction manifold (bagpipes), and the two screws that fix the A/C rad to the main rad. Disconnect all the pipes and unplug all the electrical connections. Unbolt the secondary air pump from the back of the rear fan. I also found it easier to remove the air filter air box completely. Finally, undo the auto box oil cooler banjo bolts. Then wiggle, jiggle and force the rad upwards - It comes out complete with the fan assembly still attached. It fouls on just about everything, including the A/C pipework.

Once out, transfer the fan assembly from the old rad to the new one. Two bolts IIRC.

Refitting is the reverse operation to removal... Except.. The new Rad may or may not come with the screw clamp fixings for the fan and A/C radiator. If it doesn't then transfer the ones off the old rad - assuming they'll come off. Also, the new Rad I bought had a different top edge which meant the fan assy didn't fit. Instead of the one ridge across the top middle like shown in your picture, the after market rad had two ridges - one front one rear. This means the top plastic bracket of the fan didn't fit, so it had to be re-engineered (bodged) with an angle grinder. Also, a good idea to use new copper crush washers on the auto box cooler banjo bolts. And finally, use good quality jubilee clips on refitting the water hoses.

Something that's a 15 minute job on my Carlton took about 4 hours on the Omega.
« Last Edit: 18 July 2018, 10:20:04 by LC0112G »
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Re: Coolant leak when car stood for a few days.
« Reply #19 on: 18 July 2018, 11:47:31 »

Easier, and lighter if you pull the fan before the radiator ;)
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cam.in.head

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Re: Coolant leak when car stood for a few days.
« Reply #20 on: 18 July 2018, 12:40:03 »

That should be the right one.it has the extra two pipes for the additional recirc pump (early ones don’t have this).just compare it to yours in the picture to be sure.  The internal cooler is not used so just ignore that part. Swapping it is easy. It’s easier on the later 2.6 because it doesn’t have the earlier air pump system. Only issue I could with mine was that the top plastic cover didn’t fit correctly over the slightly different top design of the new one. Central fin if I remember correctly.
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Alnico Blue

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Re: Coolant leak when car stood for a few days.
« Reply #21 on: 18 July 2018, 15:13:46 »

Thats the one  . . . you say the "compatibility check" said it was not suitable for your omega  :-\

I just done the compat check with your model 2.6 saloon 2002 details  & it said yes .  :-\ :-\

As I recall, a few on here have used that supplier & have been pleased with the quality.

LCO's guide above is about right  . . .watch out for the 2 very small O rings when you disconnect auto box pipes above the rad on drivers side . as you lift the block connector up after undoing the 1 torx bolt , these O rings can drop out if you are unaware they are there.

Also the 2 rad switches down passenger side ( which you will have to change over from old rad to new)  are a bit tricky to disconnect & re connect .  I pre marked the underside of the connector so looking at the mark from underneath , I knew they were in the correct position to slide straight in to the switch  ;)

Some rads pull out easily others are a barsteward to get moving . Never understood why that is  :-\ :-\

HTH.     

 **Note to myself  . . .about time we had a rad changing maintenance guide with pics  on OOF  ::)
« Last Edit: 18 July 2018, 15:16:45 by Alnico Blue »
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LC0112G

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Re: Coolant leak when car stood for a few days.
« Reply #22 on: 18 July 2018, 15:33:09 »

The biggest PITA for me was that my original genuine VX rad had some plastic mouldings on the passenger side end tank that makes the rad wider than the A/C pipes above it where they connect to the A/C rad, so the flippin' thing wouldn't clear them to pull out. My A/C works great, so I had no intention of de-gassing and re-gassing to take both rads out together - which I suspect is how they go in at the factory.

In the end I had to take the air filter box out, and then there was enough angle of dangle to get the drivers side of the rad out of the guides and move over enough to lift it out. The rad itself always has some water and transmission fluid remaining in it, and with all this effin' and blindin', pushin' and shovin' that usually ends up going everywhere and making a real mess.

It's not a difficult job, just one that with a bit more thought at Russelsheim could have been so much easier.
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BazaJT

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Re: Coolant leak when car stood for a few days.
« Reply #23 on: 18 July 2018, 19:45:02 »

There is in fact a "how to" with pictures in the maintenance guides.Go to guide index scroll down to air con condenser removal and follow first part of that guide which is in fact removal of radiator :y
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Alnico Blue

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Re: Coolant leak when car stood for a few days.
« Reply #24 on: 18 July 2018, 20:21:49 »

There is in fact a "how to" with pictures in the maintenance guides.Go to guide index scroll down to air con condenser removal and follow first part of that guide which is in fact removal of radiator :y

Well I never Mr. Baza . . .you learn   something everyday . . I'm off to maintenance section to have look !

Thanks for that  :y
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BazaJT

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Re: Coolant leak when car stood for a few days.
« Reply #25 on: 18 July 2018, 21:16:08 »

Must admit I don't know whether there is a specific radiator "how to" but I knew that to remove the air con condenser then the rad has to come out first so figured it'd come under that "how to".Hope it helps you and any others in need :y
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Re: Coolant leak when car stood for a few days.
« Reply #26 on: 18 July 2018, 21:48:25 »

Hi Alinco Blue

Here is what it said to me.


Thanks for all the replies. Hopefully can sort it.
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Alnico Blue

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Re: Coolant leak when car stood for a few days.
« Reply #27 on: 19 July 2018, 08:41:31 »

Hi Alinco Blue

Here is what it said to me.


Thanks for all the replies. Hopefully can sort it.

That is strange  Addy . . .I have just rechecked with your model details( 2002  2.6 saloon ) & it still shows it is compatible & NO warning of it does not fit . If you scroll down the list after putting details in  your car is on page 2 of 5

Pretty sure thats the one  . . . it has the extra 2  x 20mm  connections (marked in blue on the photo of the item)
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Re: Coolant leak when car stood for a few days.
« Reply #28 on: 19 July 2018, 10:44:22 »

Hi Alinco Blue not sure what to say about ebay, I have had this happen before on other things. I think you are correct though that, it is the one that fits, found an old post and Dr Gollum mentioned this rad, saying he had used it on Omegas so good enough for me both of you saying it will work. I have been out and did a pressure test, which showed the leak is there on passenger side, at the top where the mount attaches for the bolt, it was coming out reasonably fast. The pressure test idea in the maintenance is great. I made up the cap as per the instructions, then used a tyre compressor with digital settings, pumped it upto 12psi and could see the leak. I looked at the aircon removal in maintenance, but the radiator layout looks different to mine. The two metal pipes on mine that come over the top of the radiator then meet at a block, are they the gearbox oil coolant pipes? If I remove them, I assume there will be a O ring or something similar inside. Is it best to replace or can they be reused, also is there anything that needs to be done to gearbox after putting it all back together, such as bleeding or filling up with fluid?

Here is a picture of my rad layout. Looks identical to the ebay one. Small pipe passenger side goes to the pump you can see on that side.


Thanks to all for the help.
« Last Edit: 19 July 2018, 10:56:26 by addy »
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Re: Coolant leak when car stood for a few days.
« Reply #29 on: 19 July 2018, 11:01:57 »

Undo the connection block, bag it and tie it to the coolant bottle to keep it out of the way.

When you remove the radiator, keep the transmission cooler vertical. Fluid loss will be negligible ;)

New radiator will almost certainly include an in built cooler. Ignore these connections and transfer all the mounting hardware onto the new radiator and refit as you found it... :y
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Re: Coolant leak when car stood for a few days.
« Reply #30 on: 19 July 2018, 11:20:25 »

Thanks for the reply Dr Gollum. Sorry to sound like an idiot(not hard for me :D), but when you say keep transmission cooler vertical is that where the block is where the two metal pipes go, that looks like a small radiator, and will it come out as part of the radiator? What are the connections that you say need to be ignored? (New radiator will almost certainly include an in built cooler. Ignore these connections)

Sorry for all the questions.

« Last Edit: 19 July 2018, 11:26:45 by addy »
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Re: Coolant leak when car stood for a few days.
« Reply #31 on: 19 July 2018, 11:32:35 »

That's exactly what it is :y

New rad will have two extra fittings on the right hand end. Leave the plugs in place and ignore them. Be obvious when it arrives  :y
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Re: Coolant leak when car stood for a few days.
« Reply #32 on: 19 July 2018, 12:54:32 »

Thanks for the quick reply. will order the radiator, got the hose clamp tool ordered. Do I need the seals on the cooler pipe to block, or are the old ones useable?
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Doctor Gollum

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Re: Coolant leak when car stood for a few days.
« Reply #33 on: 19 July 2018, 14:07:30 »

I leave the seals well alone ;)
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addy

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Re: Coolant leak when car stood for a few days.
« Reply #34 on: 19 July 2018, 17:45:11 »

Thanks I will watch for the seals, when removing the block. While the radiator is out, would it make sense to flush the coolant system. and if so would using the top radiator hose to do it work? Then when everything is back together would the coolant system need a concentrated mix for the first filling, then mixed for the final top up, as in the coolant flush how to in the maintenance section?

Sorry for all the questions, just want to make sure I get everything before I start and do it right first time.
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Bigron

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Re: Coolant leak when car stood for a few days.
« Reply #35 on: 19 July 2018, 21:12:07 »

Do you mean flushing the block by doing that? The thermostat will be closed on a cold engine, so that wouldn't work. Worth flushing the heater matrix, though.

Ron.
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Alnico Blue

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Re: Coolant leak when car stood for a few days.
« Reply #36 on: 21 July 2018, 10:59:42 »

Addy,  as for flushing the system, if it were mine , I would flush out the system with just water a few times the day BEFORE you actually start work on changing the rad .I would be running the car up to temp & also putting heater on full between flushes as well, if you do this let it cool a bit  before trying to remove header cap or you may get very hot water blowing back from the top of the header tank.  Drain with header tank cap off . You cannot get all of the coolant out by draining, only about 50% I believe,  so you are basicly diluting the mix everytime you flush it . After several flushes it will be a very weak mix what is left in the system.

Then once new rad is fitted refill with 5 litres of concentrated coolant & then top up with water & you should be left with approx a 50-50 mix in the system .  I think this is the usual oof way of getting to the 50-50 mix  . Choice of Red or Blue  is up to you , although most on here use red I believe & some use de-ironised water  . . .I just use water from the tap  .  .always have done  ::)

Others may add further advice to this  . . .but HTH  :y
« Last Edit: 21 July 2018, 11:10:05 by Alnico Blue »
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Doctor Gollum

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Re: Coolant leak when car stood for a few days.
« Reply #37 on: 21 July 2018, 15:35:22 »

Actually you don't have a choice of coolant. Facelift Omegas should be red.
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LC0112G

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Re: Coolant leak when car stood for a few days.
« Reply #38 on: 21 July 2018, 21:14:23 »

Then once new rad is fitted refill with 5 litres of concentrated coolant & then top up with water & you should be left with approx a 50-50 mix in the system .  I think this is the usual oof way of getting to the 50-50 mix  . Choice of Red or Blue  is up to you , although most on here use red I believe & some use de-ironised water  . . .I just use water from the tap  .  .always have done  ::)

Others may add further advice to this  . . .but HTH  :y

Well, the day after changing my rad I had a 400 mile round trip lo Linconshire for the RAF flypast. On the way home I got stuck in a traffic jam on the M25, bailed out and then got stuck in a Jam in Staines. Right in the middle at some lights, it blew the bottom hose off the rad, dumping all the coolant. Useless effing spring clamps, but fortunately right next to a car park. I had 5L of antifreeze in the boot, and some proper hose clamps, so after a quick trip to the local poundland for some tools, fixed the hose and tipped in the antifreeze. Nowhere near enough. So took the now empty antifreeze bottle to the nearest water source - yep - my Omega now has a 50-50 mix of pink antifreeze and Thames river water in it.  ::)
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terry paget

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Re: Coolant leak when car stood for a few days.
« Reply #39 on: 21 July 2018, 23:07:38 »

Then once new rad is fitted refill with 5 litres of concentrated coolant & then top up with water & you should be left with approx a 50-50 mix in the system .  I think this is the usual oof way of getting to the 50-50 mix  . Choice of Red or Blue  is up to you , although most on here use red I believe & some use de-ironised water  . . .I just use water from the tap  .  .always have done  ::)

Others may add further advice to this  . . .but HTH  :y

Well, the day after changing my rad I had a 400 mile round trip lo Linconshire for the RAF flypast. On the way home I got stuck in a traffic jam on the M25, bailed out and then got stuck in a Jam in Staines. Right in the middle at some lights, it blew the bottom hose off the rad, dumping all the coolant. Useless effing spring clamps, but fortunately right next to a car park. I had 5L of antifreeze in the boot, and some proper hose clamps, so after a quick trip to the local poundland for some tools, fixed the hose and tipped in the antifreeze. Nowhere near enough. So took the now empty antifreeze bottle to the nearest water source - yep - my Omega now has a 50-50 mix of pink antifreeze and Thames river water in it.  ::)
Had you checked that the fan still engaged after changing the radiator? Those spring hose clips may be devils to get off, but they work well enough. If the fan is not engaging that would cause overheating.
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LC0112G

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Re: Coolant leak when car stood for a few days.
« Reply #40 on: 22 July 2018, 14:41:56 »

Then once new rad is fitted refill with 5 litres of concentrated coolant & then top up with water & you should be left with approx a 50-50 mix in the system .  I think this is the usual oof way of getting to the 50-50 mix  . Choice of Red or Blue  is up to you , although most on here use red I believe & some use de-ironised water  . . .I just use water from the tap  .  .always have done  ::)

Others may add further advice to this  . . .but HTH  :y

Well, the day after changing my rad I had a 400 mile round trip lo Linconshire for the RAF flypast. On the way home I got stuck in a traffic jam on the M25, bailed out and then got stuck in a Jam in Staines. Right in the middle at some lights, it blew the bottom hose off the rad, dumping all the coolant. Useless effing spring clamps, but fortunately right next to a car park. I had 5L of antifreeze in the boot, and some proper hose clamps, so after a quick trip to the local poundland for some tools, fixed the hose and tipped in the antifreeze. Nowhere near enough. So took the now empty antifreeze bottle to the nearest water source - yep - my Omega now has a 50-50 mix of pink antifreeze and Thames river water in it.  ::)
Had you checked that the fan still engaged after changing the radiator? Those spring hose clips may be devils to get off, but they work well enough. If the fan is not engaging that would cause overheating.

Yes, everything still working - and all 3 fans. Outside air was 30+, Air con on cold, 30 minutes stuck on the M25, bailed out down the A30 into Staines, got stuck with everyone else doing the same thing, ....and pop.

All the hoses on my car are beyond their best, and could do with replacing. I'd doubled up with both the original spring clamps and new jubilee clips on most of the bigger hoses, but not on the bottom rad one, which was of course the one that popped off. Seems to me that once these old hoses are disturbed, they don't like sealing again.
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Bigron

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Re: Coolant leak when car stood for a few days.
« Reply #41 on: 22 July 2018, 17:17:42 »

In a previous life (Austin A30) I used to use Red Hermetite under the hose connection; I bet somebody will decry that as old-fashioned and/or ineffective!  :-[

Ron.
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BazaJT

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Re: Coolant leak when car stood for a few days.
« Reply #42 on: 22 July 2018, 18:01:12 »

Red Hermetite,now there's a blast from the past.I've used a tube or two of that in my time and Blue Hylomar too :y
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