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[Doctor Gollum]

Which neatly surmarises the crux of the issue 

[aaronjb]

No, the answer is to build and maintain the latest EMU's to a far higher standard so the chances of them breaking down is relagated to "rare".

Right. So we can neatly file that under "Never going to happen because profits" and move on. Next!

[Lizzie Zoom]

No, the answer is to build and maintain the latest EMU's to a far higher standard so the chances of them breaking down is relagated to "rare".

Right. So we can neatly file that under "Never going to happen because profits" and move on. Next!

Oh so negative!

No, actually the train companies are losing millions of pounds of potential profit due to extra fees imposed on them by Network Rail due to trains breaking down, compensation being paid to passengers for late trains, and the government fining train companies for poor performance (Southern paid £13.4 million in 2017 and no doubt will be again, along with Northern rail for 2018).

So it is actually in the interests of the rail companies PROFITS to invest in trains that are far more reliable and do not cost tyhem money in terms of operating fines, let alone running costs.    

We must not forget though that Network Rail, owned by us the people , has caused major late running, or no running problems, and has incurred millions of pounds penalties and fines.  In 2016 they paid the government £316 million in fines for poor performance, and to date they are paying hundreds of thousands of pounds in penalties to the train operators in penalties for failures to provide the pathway they should expect for their trains.

[Varche]

Well the back up loco could have been brought out today for its first airing. Overhead powerlines dragged down by a class 802 Hitachi on test.

[Lizzie Zoom]

Well the back up loco could have been brought out today for its first airing. Overhead powerlines dragged down by a class 802 Hitachi on test.

Yes, and it is so ironic that those overhead power lines, and the train being tested, are all part of the push to modernise the system. If the old 125's and only diesel locomotives were the only units running on the old GWR, and not the latest electric units, it would not have happened.  One step forward, two steps back eh!

[LC0112G]

Well the back up loco could have been brought out today for its first airing. Overhead powerlines dragged down by a class 802 Hitachi on test.

Most of the Western Region stock is still diesel, and those that aren't are bi-mode. Sounds like a case of Network Rail looking after their interests rather than the needs of the travelling public.

[Varche]

Ah well service enhancement , never mind the publics needs . In this case to get from A to B. 

[TheBoy]

No, the answer is to build and maintain the latest EMU's to a far higher standard so the chances of them breaking down is relagated to "rare".

Right. So we can neatly file that under "Never going to happen because profits" and move on. Next!

We'll have to subsidise it.

Think of the road improvements if all subsidies went there instead.

[Lizzie Zoom]

No, the answer is to build and maintain the latest EMU's to a far higher standard so the chances of them breaking down is relagated to "rare".

Right. So we can neatly file that under "Never going to happen because profits" and move on. Next!

We'll have to subsidise it.

Think of the road improvements if all subsidies went there instead.

So to build extra road space for even more cars and lorries to clog up, instead of creating additional rail space to operate faster trains to move even more thousands of people and tonnes of freight?

Creating that extra road space over the decades I have witnessed has just not worked, but with all the current transitional difficulties the railways are shifting even more passengers than ever before, most of whom do arrive on time or near enough.  Unlike driving from the south east to, say, The Lake District and maybe arriving some time after 11 hours of "parked" driving.

In any case, after reading what others think is going to happen soon to the private motor car, we will all be grateful for an advanced, high tech, joined up public transport system!

[Varche]

I wouldhazard a guess that travel from the South East , say Leeds Castle to say Coniston in Lake District would take longer than 11 hours by train.

[Nick W]

Spending billions on building more roads is a waste of money. We should repair the ones we have, and make them work better. That could involve redesigning junctions so that traffic flows properly, increasing the speed limits on dual carriageways and motorways, ensuring that by-passes have plenty of access etc etc.


It's 150 years too late for a joined up public transport system, we're stuck with the abortion that we have. High speed rail links in a country where the likely destinations are at most 150miles apart are never going to work, for both freight or passengers. The money should be spent to get a decent return, which means either improving inner city public transport, or just openly subsidising it by reducing the cost to the user. We do that for roads after all.


Finally, our usage of cars isn't sustainable. This will require a drastic change of circumstances for us to accept, and will likely be the least of the problems.

[Lizzie Zoom]

I wouldhazard a guess that travel from the South East , say Leeds Castle to say Coniston in Lake District would take longer than 11 hours by train.

Maybe it would, but you could sit back, relax, have cups of coffee instead of being "parked up" in miles of gradually, maybe, eventually, moving traffic.  Then there is the thought that in the future there will be HS lines all the way up taking very little time to get from Ashford to the North. I love my driving and am a dedicated motorist of 48 years, but I recognise that eventually the private car will die and, after hopefully a fully planned and funded transition over time,  the UK population around then will see a public,
fully intergrated transport system that takes you from front door to front door speedily and at a reasonable cost.

[Doctor Gollum]

All this talk of planning...

Plan ahead and travel over night or take a picnic

Correctly timed you can get from deepest Sussex to Gretna Green in about 7 hours and Wick in another 8 including a few decent stops

[TheBoy]

So to build extra road space for even more cars and lorries to clog up, instead of creating additional rail space to operate faster trains to move even more thousands of people and tonnes of freight?

Creating that extra road space over the decades I have witnessed has just not worked, but with all the current transitional difficulties the railways are shifting even more passengers than ever before, most of whom do arrive on time or near enough.  Unlike driving from the south east to, say, The Lake District and maybe arriving some time after 11 hours of "parked" driving.

In any case, after reading what others think is going to happen soon to the private motor car, we will all be grateful for an advanced, high tech, joined up public transport system!

Trains are now significantly slower - Brum to London used to be under 1h20m by 2 very different routes before railtrack decided HS2 would keep them in work. Trains were artificially slowed to make HS2's 55mins (going from nowhere useful to nowhere useful) seem worth the £28b-£50b (for phase 1) of taxpayers money, depending which set of figures from HS2 Ltd to chose to use.

Additionally, the Northern lakes are approx 3.5-4hrs from here, and Dover is 2-2.5hrs from here. Assuming you are my side of Dover, where does 11hrs come from?

And as it happens, 3yrs ago my mum came up on hols with us one the Kirkstone Pass.  Her first comment when I collected her from Windermere was that she should have driven...


We need to forget about dicking around with 18th century technology. Its shit.

[Lizzie Zoom]

So to build extra road space for even more cars and lorries to clog up, instead of creating additional rail space to operate faster trains to move even more thousands of people and tonnes of freight?

Creating that extra road space over the decades I have witnessed has just not worked, but with all the current transitional difficulties the railways are shifting even more passengers than ever before, most of whom do arrive on time or near enough.  Unlike driving from the south east to, say, The Lake District and maybe arriving some time after 11 hours of "parked" driving.

In any case, after reading what others think is going to happen soon to the private motor car, we will all be grateful for an advanced, high tech, joined up public transport system!

Trains are now significantly slower - Brum to London used to be under 1h20m by 2 very different routes before railtrack decided HS2 would keep them in work. Trains were artificially slowed to make HS2's 55mins (going from nowhere useful to nowhere useful) seem worth the £28b-£50b (for phase 1) of taxpayers money, depending which set of figures from HS2 Ltd to chose to use.

Additionally, the Northern lakes are approx 3.5-4hrs from here, and Dover is 2-2.5hrs from here. Assuming you are my side of Dover, where does 11hrs come from?

And as it happens, 3yrs ago my mum came up on hols with us one the Kirkstone Pass.  Her first comment when I collected her from Windermere was that she should have driven...


We need to forget about dicking around with 18th century technology. Its shit.

It came from travelling M20 with hold ups, M25 with nothing but stop and start from Clacketts Lane services all through to past M4 junction, then M1 road works, and even more on M6 with accidents (plural) around Birmingham right through to M62 junction, with being "parked up" most of the time, then heavy traffic all the way through to Keswick, until straight forward running to Lake area. 

Your 3.5 hours belongs 30 years in the past when I, travelling on business roughly averaging 100+mph could get from Bristol to the Whitley Bay Area in that time by setting off at  0330 hours.
Travelling to the Lakes, or to the North East now in 3.5 hours, without seriously breaking speed limits, having accidents, getting arrested or losing your licence / life during realistic day time driving periods, or being On Top Gear is, I suggest, just a fantasy. 

Even when using the M6 (Toll) around Birmingham you will be lucky to travel between the aforementioned places in under 5 hours with good going. The M25 section alone can cost 1.5 hours in lost time, let alone the dreaded M6.

As for "Victorian" transport (not "18th century") never forget the motor car was invented in that era! So, if I placed a bet on what form of transport will last until the end of the 21st century between the combustion engined vehicle or the train it must be the latter, but in a form most of the public now cannot predict.