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Author Topic: How can this be  (Read 3313 times)

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annihilator

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How can this be
« on: 19 October 2018, 22:02:06 »

Yesterday whilst outside working on the elite I noticed a Dvla clamper man putting one on a valeters van parked on the corner of the road. Out of interest I looked up the reg. on the net and it was mote'd on 9/10/18 but it said not taxed (not sorn'd) and get this, was last taxed till April 2017. Surely it should have flagged up before now and had a fine issued.
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Doctor Gollum

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Re: How can this be
« Reply #1 on: 20 October 2018, 00:17:24 »

Getting flagged up via cameras is one thing, but unless there's a clamping unit/hiab present next to it when it's spotted nothing will happen.

Cameras are there primarily to keep tabs on ne'erdowells and scrotes...

DVLA mobile patrols are the front line in enforcement of car tax evasion.

Police aren't even imformed until you are over a month due...  :y
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Andy B

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Re: How can this be
« Reply #2 on: 20 October 2018, 08:29:51 »

when you don't have a disc in the window anymore it could have been a genuine error. I genuinely thought one of my cars was MOT'd, it was only when I wanted to tax it earlier this year, that I realised its MOT had run out about 10 months previously.  :-[ :-[
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Field Marshal Dr. Opti

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Re: How can this be
« Reply #3 on: 20 October 2018, 10:31:13 »

when you don't have a disc in the window anymore it could have been a genuine error. I genuinely thought one of my cars was MOT'd, it was only when I wanted to tax it earlier this year, that I realised its MOT had run out about 10 months previously.  :-[ :-[

I agree.......and still have a tax disc.


Car tax dodgers and the loss of revenue are far more common since the demise of the tax disc.
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Lizzie Zoom

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Re: How can this be
« Reply #4 on: 20 October 2018, 14:25:49 »

when you don't have a disc in the window anymore it could have been a genuine error. I genuinely thought one of my cars was MOT'd, it was only when I wanted to tax it earlier this year, that I realised its MOT had run out about 10 months previously.  :-[ :-[

I agree.......and still have a tax disc.


Car tax dodgers and the loss of revenue are far more common since the demise of the tax disc.


Once more Opti some of this increase in evasion, and other motoring offences, is down to the severe cuts in traffic police officers out there in patrol cars.  30% down in the last 5 years, and any of us who remember the great days of driving great distances regularly can recall how many patrol cars were on patrol or sitting at the side of the road.  You can now travel considerable distances without seeing any patrol cars, or maybe one of two if you are lucky, when in the past you would pass a dozen!

The rise in crime, which once again is the worst in the Country down here in the Kent Police area, is also down to the terrible cuts in officer numbers.  Tackling crime is in crisis and until extra funding is found for REAL increases in police resource, it will continue to be so.  In public few senior officers will admit that, but in private that is what is actually being said.

The massive increase in ANPR cameras, and in the case of the DVLA with their electronically equipped vans coupled with central computerisation that the police can tap into, is a great advancement, but without the extra traffic officers required rates of evasion will continue to rise.  Those who drive unlicensed, untaxed, non-MOT'd, unregistered vehicles without valid driving licences and giving fictitious addresses will never be caught with cameras alone.  It requires the physical presence of traffic officers to stop them ;)
« Last Edit: 20 October 2018, 14:27:48 by Lizzie Zoom »
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Doctor Gollum

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Re: How can this be
« Reply #5 on: 20 October 2018, 17:05:32 »

Not entirely true...

DVLA do their own enforcement. No tax/MoT is merely used as an excuse to stop already suspicious people.

The police only specifically target tax evasion if the DVLA request it.

This is unchanged from previous.
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Andy B

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Re: How can this be
« Reply #6 on: 20 October 2018, 17:13:06 »

.....
The massive increase in ANPR cameras, and  ....

it obviously isn't very effective. The 1st year Mrs B had her car, the insurance company had mistakenly entered a V instead of a U on the certificate & the rest of the documents .... I didn't notice until the next year when I used the reg number as they sent to me to get quotes elsewhere. The car had been driven the length of the country that year as well as knocking about town. It seems that nobody noticed.  :-\
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Shackeng

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Re: How can this be
« Reply #7 on: 20 October 2018, 17:22:48 »

Years ago a friend had a new Rover, the garage put number plates with DKX and BKX front and back. It wasn't picked up for a couple of years! :o
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Lizzie Zoom

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Re: How can this be
« Reply #8 on: 20 October 2018, 18:33:34 »

Not entirely true...

DVLA do their own enforcement. No tax/MoT is merely used as an excuse to stop already suspicious people.

The police only specifically target tax evasion if the DVLA request it.

This is unchanged from previous.

I was explaining how the police can, and do, physically stop cars when their inboard ANPR system "pings" and highlights a car they are behind or passing is uninsured, untaxed or is not registered.  Their systems are linked to the central DVLA computer records. Often though the car they have stopped for those reasons has a driver or/and occupants with a lot more to hide.

The DVLA system cannot itself stop a vehicle being illegally driven on the road for whatever reason, but they send letters out for non-payment of Excise Duty (only) and also have the vans out scanning for untaxed vehicles.  When they come across one their systems gives a "authorised" instruction to the DVLA inspector and they clamp the offending vehicle.

The DVLA can never do anything physically about an uninsured, unlicensed driver, in maybe a non-MOT'd vehicle, so that is when the police officers do their legal duty to bring criminal charges to bear and often seize the vehicle. :D
« Last Edit: 20 October 2018, 18:48:59 by Lizzie Zoom »
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Lizzie Zoom

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Re: How can this be
« Reply #9 on: 20 October 2018, 18:57:50 »

Years ago a friend had a new Rover, the garage put number plates with DKX and BKX front and back. It wasn't picked up for a couple of years! :o

This and Andy B's example only goes to prove that on their own DVLA cannot physically apprehend drivers who are either driving illegally, or have something genuinely wrong with their documentation or their car, like number plates.  For example that is why you still see all too frequently illegal number plates being used or are using their mobile phones, or speeding in a built up area.  It can only be police officers who can deal with these issues, along with many others, out there on the road.  We need far more of them and quickly! ;)
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Doctor Gollum

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Re: How can this be
« Reply #10 on: 20 October 2018, 21:23:25 »

Not entirely true...

DVLA do their own enforcement. No tax/MoT is merely used as an excuse to stop already suspicious people.

The police only specifically target tax evasion if the DVLA request it.

This is unchanged from previous.

I was explaining how the police can, and do, physically stop cars when their inboard ANPR system "pings" and highlights a car they are behind or passing is uninsured, untaxed or is not registered.  Their systems are linked to the central DVLA computer records. Often though the car they have stopped for those reasons has a driver or/and occupants with a lot more to hide.

The DVLA system cannot itself stop a vehicle being illegally driven on the road for whatever reason, but they send letters out for non-payment of Excise Duty (only) and also have the vans out scanning for untaxed vehicles.  When they come across one their systems gives a "authorised" instruction to the DVLA inspector and they clamp the offending vehicle.

The DVLA can never do anything physically about an uninsured, unlicensed driver, in maybe a non-MOT'd vehicle, so that is when the police officers do their legal duty to bring criminal charges to bear and often seize the vehicle. :D
Again, not strictly true...

Vehicle Enforcement Policy – Gov.uk
PDFhttps://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk › ...

And..

Table 1 – DVLA enforcement of vehicle tax, registration and insurance ...
PDFhttps://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk › ...

Yes, the police have the ability to act independently on the offence and expeditely report it, as do various local authority departments, but ultimately, it's up to the DVLA to deal with each offence as the department responsible for collecting revenue.  ;)
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johnnydog

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Re: How can this be
« Reply #11 on: 21 October 2018, 01:22:37 »

.....
The massive increase in ANPR cameras, and  ....

it obviously isn't very effective. The 1st year Mrs B had her car, the insurance company had mistakenly entered a V instead of a U on the certificate & the rest of the documents .... I didn't notice until the next year when I used the reg number as they sent to me to get quotes elsewhere. The car had been driven the length of the country that year as well as knocking about town. It seems that nobody noticed.  :-\

I am surprised in the year whilst the incorrect reg was recorded with your insurance company, you didn't get a letter from the MID (Motor Insurance Database) regarding your 'uninsured' vehicle as it was still taxed and in use. When I put my 2.6 Elite on the road several years ago, the insurance company got one letter of the reg wrong which went unnoticied. Because it was still taxed, but in the MID's eyes wasn't insured, I got a letter basically saying ' insure it or else'. I had to get the error corrected with my insurance, who then informed the MID, and that was the end of the matter.
If the car had been SORN'D and in their eyes off the road, the letter wouldn't have been generated irrespective of whether it was insured or not.
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Andy B

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Re: How can this be
« Reply #12 on: 21 October 2018, 08:55:27 »

.....
The massive increase in ANPR cameras, and  ....

it obviously isn't very effective. The 1st year Mrs B had her car, the insurance company had mistakenly entered a V instead of a U on the certificate & the rest of the documents .... I didn't notice until the next year when I used the reg number as they sent to me to get quotes elsewhere. The car had been driven the length of the country that year as well as knocking about town. It seems that nobody noticed.  :-\

I am surprised in the year whilst the incorrect reg was recorded with your insurance company, you didn't get a letter from the MID (Motor Insurance Database) regarding your 'uninsured' vehicle as it was still taxed and in use. When I put my 2.6 Elite on the road several years ago, the insurance company got one letter of the reg wrong which went unnoticied. Because it was still taxed, but in the MID's eyes wasn't insured, I got a letter basically saying ' insure it or else'. I had to get the error corrected with my insurance, who then informed the MID, and that was the end of the matter.
If the car had been SORN'D and in their eyes off the road, the letter wouldn't have been generated irrespective of whether it was insured or not.
Actually .....we did. But the incorrect reg number still wasn't noticed. I phone my insurance company, told them about the letter, they said they'd sort it & I heard nothing more.
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TheBoy

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Re: How can this be
« Reply #13 on: 21 October 2018, 09:34:51 »

.....
The massive increase in ANPR cameras, and  ....

it obviously isn't very effective.
Nor was the older non electronic methods.  I'm sure with all driven around for months (innocently or otherwise) without tax or MOTs.  Insurance was always more difficult to innocently forget, as the insurance companies used to hound for renewals (in the days before automatic renewal).


I can certainly hold my hand up to no MOT for about 9 months back in the day, simply because it didn't even enter my mind it was due.
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Re: How can this be
« Reply #14 on: 21 October 2018, 11:07:06 »

when you don't have a disc in the window anymore it could have been a genuine error. I genuinely thought one of my cars was MOT'd, it was only when I wanted to tax it earlier this year, that I realised its MOT had run out about 10 months previously.  :-[ :-[

I agree.......and still have a tax disc.


Car tax dodgers and the loss of revenue are far more common since the demise of the tax disc.

The extra revenue raised from the double taxing of cars when they are bought and sold probably makes up for this.  ::)
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