Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Diamond Black Geezer on 15 November 2019, 07:58:46
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Without boring the bits off you all, suffice it to say my car's been in bits more than assembled over the last few weeks, and Miss DBG needs it for work 'tomorrow' each time, so pressure's always on to make sure she's running.
Fuel pump, sparks, oil n filters, done recently. Brand new DIS pack (last night) HTs with 4 years on them, always runs on Tesco Ultimatum and currently has a bottle of redex in the tank.
Slow to start today, and has started to get a bit slower recently. Fast turnover, good starter/alternator, but exactly the same as the other week when the fuel lines were purged. So I'm diagnosing FPR non-return valve is getting tired. Everyone concur? Just before I source another car part wanted everyone's opinions. :y
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You need to measure the fuel pressure before going any further. Apply vacuum to the regulator and see if the pressure changes. Regulators are pretty reliable parts(it's just a spring), so the problem is probably something else
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Run through KWs starting/charging guide and report back...
It's that time of year when batteries start to fall over ;)
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Wlll do chaps, ta.
Miss DBG has the car today, so will have a look this evening. I'd say the charging system is spot on, but I'll of course do the 'wood' test to rule things out.
Don't have a gauge to test pressure on, Vxl V6 isn't too far from me, I might ask if he's got one to borrow for shekels...
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Missing under load might be fuel related, but my money is on the electrickery ;)
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Ah, the missing is cured, now like I say, DIS pack changed, relocated, it was the usual soggyfoam issue. (was sealed, but was 'damp' outside and that was only a day or so before the heavy rain, this softened the silicone which hadn't cured fully)
Like I say, she runs spot on, but after reassembling from doing the DIS pack and being sat overnight she turned over for maybe 5 seconds before firing. Used to be a couple of turns of the starter only, then over the last few months noticed a little longer, now 5 seconds ish. I thought it was related to the fuel pump, but this morning confirms it's not that.
Suppose the filter may be a bit clogged, it's only been on maybe 2 years maybe less, though.
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I stand by my suggestion ;)
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Don't have a gauge to test pressure on, Vxl V6 isn't too far from me, I might ask if he's got one to borrow for shekels...
might as well spend 20 shekels on your own.
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I stand by my suggestion ;)
yes, most fuel problems are electrical. Even especially when a carburettor is fitted.
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I stand by my suggestion ;)
yes, most fuel problems are electrical. Even especially when a carburettor is fitted.
Solex autochoke anyone? ;D
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Don't have a gauge to test pressure on, Vxl V6 isn't too far from me, I might ask if he's got one to borrow for shekels...
might as well spend 20 shekels on your own.
Twenty?! It's only worth ten!
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Don't have a gauge to test pressure on, Vxl V6 isn't too far from me, I might ask if he's got one to borrow for shekels...
might as well spend 20 shekels on your own.
Twenty?! It's only worth ten!
free gourd included though :y
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:y
8, plus the free gourd, or strike me dead! :)
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:y
8, plus the free gourd, or strike me dead! :)
it's worth 10
oh well..... one born every minute ::)
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:y
8, plus the free gourd, or strike me dead! :)
it's worth 10
oh well..... one born every minute ::)
You're only getting half a dinari for that life story!
:y
Right, voltage results are:
after 2 hrs sat . . . 12.53 (12.5-12.8 ideal)
sat with load . . . 11.99 (12+ ideal)
voltage during cranking no result - was on my own!
idle with no load . . 14.36 (14-14.5 ideal)
2k rpm with no load . . 14.36 (14-14.5 ideal)
idle with load . . 13.97 (13-14.5)
2k rpm with load . . 13.95 (13.5-14.5 ideal)
So what do we say to that? Not perfection, but not terrible figures, either? Are we happy to say the battery's on its way out, that explains it then fair enough, something to be aware of? Or look elsewhere as they're 'ok'? :)
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Alternator good.
Battery less so. Buy her a new one for Christmas ;)
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Ugh! She's had enough off me!! :D
Right, I'll get looking, then. :)
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I'd say battery too
the ECU does not like/shuts down under 12v
a tired battery ,when cranking ,particularly in cold weather is no good
and a 096 battery can be had for about £50
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It is a genuine Vx, and it's done 4 years. Not a short life for a car battery but not long either. :-\
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Or invest in or borrow a good charger that can recondition those maintenance free type batteries. Might take two or three days, but I would expect 24 hours on yours.
Something like a CTEK MXS 5.0 (https://www.tayna.co.uk/battery-chargers/ctek/mxs5-0/).
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Or invest in or borrow a good charger that can recondition those maintenance free type batteries. Might take two or three days, but I would expect 24 hours on yours.
Something like a CTEK MXS 5.0 (https://www.tayna.co.uk/battery-chargers/ctek/mxs5-0/).
Or spend less on a new battery...
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It is a genuine Vx, and it's done 4 years. Not a short life for a car battery but not long either. :-\
sadly it makes no difference how old or who made it
I've had cheap batteries last years (ones that where on cars when I brought them) and an expensive battery fail under warranty .
winter is coming ,£50 spent now on a battery could actually save you money and hassle in the long run
trying to start a car with complex electronics with a duff battery can damage expensive chunks of electrickary
windings in the fuel pump, starter motor and solenoid heat up if voltage is too low to spin it up ,relays chatter ,ECUs shut down or worse, none of the many engine sensors read true values at low voltage
it's also important to make sure earth points and battery terminals are clean and sound too ,for the above reasons.
yes, I am a Builder, but I trained as an engineer in my early days ,so i'm not trying to make you spend money part swapping and i'm not on commission from battery suppliers ;D
get someone to crank it over while you read the voltage at the battery when doing so
the sub £15 lidl aldi battery chargers do a conditioning charge using PWM i think
I have an ebay charger that does the same, I keep spare batteries charged and swap rather than trying to jump start with leads if a battery is low,
so you could also consider getting a charger,keeping the old battery charged up as a stand by ,for when you leave the sidelights on ;D
sods law section 3 ,item f7 ...." if you have a spare something,the one fitted rarely fails " :y
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That's all great, thanks lads. It's looking somewhat like battery - we went on a trip today, hour or so up the road. Made sure I read the voltage on cranking - 10.44v, did the same on return journey 10.5v, however on leaving we got to the end of the road and the engine died! :'( which does add credence to it being battery, even if the volts on cranking didnt dip below 10v.
So what is the 'oof best buy' of late, then? Tanya or something, wasn't it, I read on a thread the other week? want 65ah or 72ah, really. :)
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Last battery I bought for one of my Omegas (2.6 Elite) was a Yuasa about 4 years ago - been great and has never let me down. For the extra few quid to buy a battery with a good warranty period makes sense to me - as long as you keep the receipt and it is from a supplier that you can physically return it to in the event of a problem under warranty.
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Thanks. Lion seems 'best of budget' priced around £50+ Bosch for maybe £80 if lucky.. Yuasa in that sort of proce range too, heard good things about.
Can anyone offer a better 'bang for buck' option than a Varta E43 096 72ah with 680CCA, at £62.80?
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or Exide 096 72ah with 720CCA for £55.99.
Varta/Bosch same battery, better name, Exide has higher CCA and cheaper.... :-\
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These batteries have been mentioned several times on the Forum (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/E-U-New-Genuine-OEM-Heavy-Duty-Car-Battery-Type-096-100-78ah-4-YEAR-GUARANTEE/291823658483). 096 78AH 680CCA. Nobody has ever said they're rubbish, so perhaps worth a punt? Can be had right now for £36.00 with ebay voucher code PRIZE20. I don't imagine you'll find anything else usable for that money.
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That definitely wins 'best budget' then at £36 for a brand new 78ah battery that's insane. 4 year warranty too which is a surprise.
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I have a Lion one fitted on my Omega :y
one of those that Mr Enceladus linked in one of the diesel astras ,
paid the full £46 ,always started well :) being over-sized for an astra (but just fits) :y
don't know what eurocarshyte has offer wise with the daft discount code system they have, may be worth a look :-\
less than £36 quid delivered is a great price for an 096 though :o
I would say trickle/slow charge whatever you do get before you fit ,so it's 100% charged
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Ive had some problems with my Omega having a flat battery if left unused for about a week. No rhyme or reason to it, it just did it sometimes.
When I was getting rid of the 190D I took the battery off as it was quite new and a very high spec Bosch that would start a tank.
Fitted it to the omega and had no issues since. The Halfords battery it replaced was probably around three years old, might even still be under warranty actually, but Im becoming more convinced that batteries are one of those things that its worth buying quality nowadays.
As mentioned, all that modern electrickery doesn't like being messed around.
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Got a good deal on a Bosch S5 which according to speak has 780 CCA.
It spins the motor round like a whirlwind and has missed a beat since...think I paid sub £100 with some voucher codes etc
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Tempting, no very tempting as the super cheap one is, I'm thinking go for the cold cranking amps rating, as that's the most critical figure.
:-\
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Have a look on the Tayna website. Their prices are usually pretty good.
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Will see if I can find a varta equivalent with that CCA, for reasonable pennies.
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These are all via tayna (on their ebay shop) ta. Will look. :y
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Bosch S5 096 on the RAC website at £86-97.Not sure what T@C,s are .Sorry cant post link but google and you will find
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Tempting, no very tempting as the super cheap one is, I'm thinking go for the cold cranking amps rating, as that's the most critical figure.
:-\
UK spec V6s and later 4 pots left the factory with Delco Freedom 66AH batteries, rebranded as Vaux or Opel. I seem to recall these 66AHs were 580CCA and reputed to be better quality than their TradeClub replacements. Plods had Delco 70AH and 6 pot diesels Delco 85AH, which were around 600 - 640CCA.
Most decent quality batteries of the right size available today will exceed the required CCA.
The problem with all the maintenance free / sealed for life batteries is that short journeys or infrequent use will degrade them very quickly, regardless of make or how much they cost. Eventually they reach a point where they can't be charged at all. Keeping them topped up with an Aldi or similar charger is a good idea, it prolongs the lifespan. Once per annum, around this time of year or a bit earlier, it's good practice to put the battery through the desulfating maintenance cycle found on CTEK or Optimate chargers, there are others. That restores the capacity and prolongs reliability. And you want reliable max capacity and current delivery in the cold weather.
I have an Aldi and a CTEK MXS 5.0. The Aldi is great at charging or topping up a battery that's in good condition. It can't recover a battery that's too discharged. For that you need the CTEK. It's not a fault it's a limitation.
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I'm thinking I should be choosing this on CCA figure over other factors, if only to offer a 'prolonged' life in the long-run. Just checked, my Vauxhall branded 70ah has 540CCA, lower that I'd have guessed :o. So clearly any on the list exceed those specs... which can only be a good thing.
For a smidge higher £ up there's Vartas Silver range (one up form 'Blue') which offer 5 year warranty. That can be had for £71.16 with code from Tanya Batteries. That comes with 750CCA, enough to start a Deltic Locomotive!
Just for comparison I paid £70 for the genuine Vx one 4 years ago.
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Right, gone for the Varta with 5 year warranty, and the 750CCA. Made in the same factory as Bosch which is the 'money no object' choice, bit like buying a Skoda over and Audi, really. Only £15 between the Exide and Varta between a 'ok' name and a 'v good' name.
Time will tell. I'd have loved to have bought the £35 one, and the Varta, swapped them every week, and come back and done the Kevin Wood guide once every 12 months, see how they are getting along.
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Right, gone for the Varta with 5 year warranty, and the 750CCA. Made in the same factory as Bosch which is the 'money no object' choice, bit like buying a Skoda over and Audi, really. Only £15 between the Exide and Varta between a 'ok' name and a 'v good' name.
Time will tell. I'd have loved to have bought the £35 one, and the Varta, swapped them every week, and come back and done the Kevin Wood guide once every 12 months, see how they are getting along.
why swap them ::)
buy both batteries and another Omega and compare the batteries like that :y
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:D
Because there's only about £5 left in my bank account now after all this spending, and to buy another whole Omega would cost at least £6... £7 for a good one. ;D ;D
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:D
Because there's only about £5 left in my bank account now after all this spending, and to buy another whole Omega would cost at least £6... £7 for a good one. ;D ;D
oh yes , Lincolnshire in your avatar box :-[
it's grim up north
Opti will buy you one ,he lives next door to you no ? :-\
time to sell a few more turnips perhaps ? bump up the bank balance ;D
£6 is about a gallon of petrol , you need that much to get an Omega to position 1 on the ignition key ,let alone start one :P
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:y
The only inaccurate thing in that post is that we've moved to Coventry. :D
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:y
The only inaccurate thing in that post is that we've moved to Coventry. :D
your avatar box hasn't :D it's still up north
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Aye, I'm not wearing out my keyboard typing out a replacement, we're frugal up North you know! That's why we remove so many letters from words, save us time :D
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Aye, I'm not wearing out my keyboard typing out a replacement, we're frugal up North you know! That's why we remove so many letters from words, save us time :D
Coventry, up north? Last time I looked it was in the Midlands.
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I mean we - genetically,by birth - we live in Cov now, but I am bringing my good sense and penny-pinching ways to the Mercians :y
Right, this is causing confusion, I'm changing my profile now ;)
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Oh dear...
Because other half needs Omeg a for work I thought safest bet, just swap batteries. So the known good, used every day battery from the Volvo C30 (74ah Varta 750CCA, coincidentally enough!) goes in the Omega. This morning....
struggles to start, five seconds of fast cranking, engine nearly catches a couple of times. Stop. Then try cranking again, engine fires up instantly. Then, thirty seconds up the road at traffic lights engine dies, restarts instant.
So as I see it either...
1) the little Volvo is a 1.6 and requires a lot less 'oomph' in its battery to run fine, so actually this test has proven the Ovlov's battery is, too, on its way out. Just isn't as noticeable on the smaller car, yet. Brand new battery will be the cureall.
2) the Volvo has a lot more systems than the Omega, it's ten years newer, hence it requires a bigger battery in the first place. The Ovlov battery is fine. Hence the problem clearly ain't battery.
:-\ :-*
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I think I'd be looking elsewhere than the battery - engine dying after 30 secs of driving, and to restart immediately suggests the fault lies somewhere else....
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I think I'd be looking elsewhere than the battery - engine dying after 30 secs of driving, and to restart immediately suggests the fault lies somewhere else....
Classic failing crank sensor, but wasn't that recently replaced?
A weak or failing fuel pump seems to be popular at the moment?
Does the C30 have Stop/Start? If so it probably has an EFB or AGM battery. Might not like the Omega's charging voltage, 30 seconds wouldn't hurt it though.
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Fuel pump just replaced as well ;)
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Yup :y
Brand new genuine GM - even pushed aside near the wing, away from manifold. (Car didn't have these issues on the old one, which I suspect is fine)
Brand new Bosch fuel pump (well about 2 weeks old if that)
C30 doesn't have stop start, it's before the 'rot set in' :y
Car idles like a dream, perhaps better than a month or two ago (there's been oil/filter/spark change, plug genuine Bosch DISpack changed since then, so not surprising) to the point I have to sometimes check the rev counter that the engine hasn't stalled, no sound or vibration in the cabin. But within a minute of cold starting, changes are she'll just die. However warm/hot engine starts on the button, straight away.
We went out this morning on a bit of a test drive, (15 mins, then car stood for an hour, then back) and zero issues. Left lights and other draining systems off to be on the safe side, but battery voltage at worst dropped to 12.65v after being left for an hour, but was 12.7-12.8 after each run. I'm going to check the battery later today, just to see how low it drops to, in case this 'spare' battery is 'as bad' as my original.
New battery has been posted so should be with me tomorrow.
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The list of things that aren't brand new is very nearly shorter than the list of new.... ::)
Just brainstorming things that may/could be part of the issue here... (ie: not 'new' parts)
-Battery - isn't new, just different, so technically this could be still the issue. Car's definitely starting faster on this one, though.
-Fuel pump relay
-Fuel injector relay
-Fuel filter (maybe 3 years old, I suppose couldn't hurt to change, however can't for a second imagine this would cause the car to just die instantly, then start perfect and run fine for hours afterward)
-FPR getting dickey/old letting fuel leak back in the feed pipes.
My theory is the long start (I'm not calling it a 'slow start' because the engine turns over fast, it just takes 5 seconds/one or two tries) and the engine dying issue are actually two separate problems. The first, fueling in some way; the second, electrical ie: battery.
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you can't rule out a new part being duff like a crank sensor
fuel pump relay ,after the trauma to it of failing fuel pump :-\
is the Omega fuel pump relay just a simple purple 70 amp 4 pin relay ?
or the old style (Carlton,astra,senator) with 2 coils and a diode (well known to fail)
or the new pump is U/S ,blocked fuel filter,line etc
sounds like intermittent fuel starvation fault anyway to me
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you can't rule out a new part being duff like a crank sensor
fuel pump relay ,after the trauma to it of failing fuel pump :-\
is the Omega fuel pump relay just a simple purple 70 amp 4 pin relay ?
or the old style (Carlton,astra,senator) with 2 coils and a diode (well known to fail)
or the new pump is U/S ,blocked fuel filter,line etc
sounds like intermittent fuel starvation fault anyway to me
Yup two... One for the injectors and one for the pump. Next to each other in the engine bay fuse box :y
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When suffering a long run of strange problems like this, on a car that's getting a bit long in the tooth, the best answer is probably..
(https://i.ibb.co/dcXbfdT/image.png) (https://ibb.co/dcXbfdT)
with
(https://i.ibb.co/QDpNsYT/image.png) (https://ibb.co/QDpNsYT)
I mean.. er.. insert something more helpful here. Sorry DBG ;)
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To be honest that's no worse an idea than I've come up with! :y
Anyone got a couple if purple relays kicking around? The amount of scrap Omegas I've scavenged and never thought to get a set of spare relays ::) if we think they'd be a good place to start... Or can I at least test the ones I have. Day off tomorrow so lots of time...
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To be honest that's no worse an idea than I've come up with! :y
Anyone got a couple if purple relays kicking around? The amount of scrap Omegas I've scavenged and never thought to get a set of spare relays ::) if we think they'd be a good place to start... Or can I at least test the ones I have. Day off tomorrow so lots of time...
are none of the other relays the same ? i've not looked
if it is a standard relay any factors or parts store should have one
where in Cov are you ? PM me
test wise ,should be plenty of youtube videos
may be pitted/worn contacts on he relay ,so it will click but make poor/intermittent contact
easy enough to bypass a simple relay
on this one clicky (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/42-Vauxhall-Opel-4-Pin-Fuel-Pump-Purple-Relay-30A-90494959-Tyco-V23136-B55-X342/262753304774?fits=Model%3AOmega&epid=1427535381&hash=item3d2d5140c6:g:GcIAAOSwzgBY45h8) just jump the 2 fat terminals
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To be honest that's no worse an idea than I've come up with! :y
Anyone got a couple if purple relays kicking around? The amount of scrap Omegas I've scavenged and never thought to get a set of spare relays ::) if we think they'd be a good place to start... Or can I at least test the ones I have. Day off tomorrow so lots of time...
As there are two, just swop them over and see if anything changes.
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Oh, knew they were both purple, in truth no idea they were identical components! Ta. Will try that. :y
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Whilst they are indeed identical, swapping them won't change the symptoms ;)
Primarily because both control fuel delivery...
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They stay on permanently once engine is running, but pump one cycles when key is put to 2. Injector one is activated when cranking once the ecu sees cam and crank sensors... any mismatch here and it won't power up either (except for the initial pump prime), hence the chaos caused by the crank sensor ;)
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Taa. Will get digging how to test them, then..
Oh. Update, drive home from work, she stalled / died again. Realised it was as I sat at roundabout, and engaged D, after being in N. Tried then several times on rest of journey and couldn't make it do it again. Odd one...
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Have we ruled out MAF sensor? Easily checked, just unplug it, EML will come on, but engine should still run, and if fault disappears MAF was the problem.
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We haven't no. First of tomorrows job is (nice and cold, low battery voltage) to unplug ye olde MAF and whizz round the block..
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Right...
1) Done the MAF unplug thing, still did the stall thing. Again, as I engage D from N or P. I'd suggest this is a marginal rev drop, combined with already-low voltage going to the ECU drops by that smidge more, which cuts the ECU out. My 'theory' only.
2 a) Definite appreciable 'rev waver' when engage lots of draining systems.
2 b) Specs of the 'good' volvo battery on a 1-2 mile journey to work and back are...
(no voltage recorded before setting off)
12.85v upon arriving at work
12.53v before setting off
12.87v back at home.
This morning
12.43v after a night sat
12.25v engine running with all the load. (H'lamps, heated seats, fans, heated rear window)
just done a 'cold start'
12.43v before cranking
10.70v on cranking (oh started instant, no issue by the way, but engine was 920 as only run ten mins previous)
3) Just a side observation.... the throttle pedal has a fair amount of 'floppy play' :o before 'biting' could this in any way be a contributory factor of this? When I removed the plenum I actually left the cable/adjuster in place, so is shouldnt have changed position. But could 'tightening this up help matters? Silly thought?
Anyway, not MAF, shame as I have a spare!
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Cable relative position may have changed if routed slightly off from previous position.
Might be worth adding a notch or two of tension, if only to rule it out :-\
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Will check didn't want to leap in and start changing variables. I'm going to check the youtube for relay testing shortly. After coffee. :)
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Will check didn't want to leap in and start changing variables. I'm going to check the youtube for relay testing shortly. After coffee. :)
check out Ebay for relay testers as well. £10 well spent......
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Ooh, didn't even know such a thing existed! Ta Nick :y
Ok chaps, just done some more bits. I have changed the throttle pedal adjustment along a fair few clicks, now the throttle feels lovely and responsive, I am the only one that would touch that/know how to, so don't know if they 'slip' over time. Very odd. There was about 2inch of travel before throttle actuated before, the car felt sluggish, but that wasn't really the issue, so left it at the back of my mind.
Went round the block a few times, with all systems on, tried going in and out of D, N, P etc many times, tried to make her do it, nothing...
EDIT:
Dave the Builder just turned up. Brought a purple relay :D did a wee code reading, nothing of note there. Car starts perfect, and no issues present. As per the pattern, nothing shows up when the car's warmed up. Best best I think is to await my battery (here in an hour or so DHL says) get that on, Miss DBG gets her car's battery back, and either give her another run, or even wait until overnight, then (with new battery) give her another go.
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Too cold for building work :D
Could be that the cable slack was causing the stalling. Wouldn't happen cold as the ecu adds extra fuel until warm... On the Trolley this manifests itself as a 300rpm rise in idle speed, which would be enough to keep the throttle partly open cold, but allow it to fully close if you lift of suddenly.
If that makes any sense :-\
New battery will help, especially with the dark and damp demands ;)
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Well... get ready...
Checked new battery voltage before fitting 12.5, so decent enough there. Went for a spin (engine temp reading just on gauge, but sub 90o, just to get some charge into the new battery...did it again!
Turned over very quick (a touch quicker than on the original Vx battery, and perhaps a smidge quicker than on the Varta/Ovlov battery) no hesitation, but went to top of the road and... engine just died. Headlamps only on, then added some more drain, went round the block a couple more times, didn't do it again.
For me, next step will be to fit the Dave the Builder relay, give her half an hour or so to cool down, then try round the block again. Will try some multimeter testing of the 'old' relay, whilst it's off, too.
Anyone else got any suggestions? ??? I'm all ears! :D
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Fitted the Dave the Builder relay (I think I'll sharpie marker the name on it for future generations to marvel over when Time Team dig up my Omega) and she didn't do 'the thing'....I think she's still a bit warm from the previous run (still under 90o) didn't feel quite right, added all the load (lights, heated everything) and the idle wavered a touch.
Blipped the throttle, to the floor very fast, flooding the engine, and the revs died to 150rpm but she recovered immediately, presumably the inertia of the engine still spinning. I'd suggest that 'near stall' isn't any relation with this problem, that's just any cable-operated throttle would do that, presumably an ECU controlled drive by wire throttle wouldnt do the same.
Acid test will be tomorrow morning when shes been sat all night, I'll go round the block - I mean fingers crossed it's the relay. But I'm still not convinced. Happy to rule it out though.
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If no joy, you try the relay in the other position ,for injectors
are you 100% happy and sure that the fuel pump and dis pack electrical connections are good :-\
could anything else electrical have got damaged ,not dried out from recent scuttle blockage :-\
sticking idol control valve may stall the car out I mentioned :-\
Too cold for building work :D
I triangulated my journey to drop off the relay :P then got stuck in Nuneaton traffic ,so sacked off the last job till tomorrow :y
cold i can live with, not so keen on the wet stuff or the cold wet stuff ;D
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Postulation - if any of the wires to the DISpack briefly lost contact, would this just manifest itself a single, momentary misfire, or would this leave no signal to the ECU which would suddenly throw a paddy and just cease functioning? hence the stall? ???
That all said don't know why that should manifest itself only when cold. :-\ so probably barking up the wrong tree.
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Could be a loom issue :-\
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Wondering if you may have an intake air leak which is messing with the idle speed/ mixture, done any live data / check fuel trims ?
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Wondering if you may have an intake air leak which is messing with the idle speed/ mixture, done any live data / check fuel trims ?
checked the lambdas where switching :y engine coolant sensor :y ecu voltage 13.6 :y
maf was 10 kgh :-\ on tickover ,which i thought low but not familiar with x25xe
didn't notice fuel trims, engine sounded right bar what i thought was a exhaust blow
stored codes for egr , maf voltage high and low (had been disconnected) and another, can't remember , nothing relevant
no codes came back , no abs or autobox codes
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just to add, i think it is an intermittent and very momentary fault ,possibly electrical , which i did not see happen during my visit ,car was warm, ran fine :(
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Tomorrow I'm going to check connections for alternator and earths.
Possible exhaust blow, yes, however that's just gone on last week, after the other one collapsed after 7 months. ::) As you can see, Ive had a busy few weeks. About 23 years of car issues are happening all at once over a 2 month period.
Wish the car was just a touch cooler when you arrived Dave, would have been great for you to see the issue for yourself.
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Tomorrow I'm going to check connections for alternator and earths.
Possible exhaust blow, yes, however that's just gone on last week, after the other one collapsed after 7 months. ::) As you can see, Ive had a busy few weeks. About 23 years of car issues are happening all at once over a 2 month period.
Wish the car was just a touch cooler when you arrived Dave, would have been great for you to see the issue for yourself.
intermittent faults NEVER occur when you want them too during diagnosis ,just when your driving ,usually miles from anywhere ;D
indeed,you seem to be having more than your fair share of car issues ::)
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Wondering if you may have an intake air leak which is messing with the idle speed/ mixture, done any live data / check fuel trims ?
I have considered vac / similar leak. The plenum's been off doing the DIS pack, and this did manifest itself after then... I am very aware that unless spot on, an air leak is very possible upon reassembly.. Might go over the engine with some carb spray, see if the revs change, tomorrow, too.
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reading through this with interest and if ive missed it i apologise but does the car ever stall or die whilst you are actually driving or just when you let the revs drop?.ie only cuts out at idle.
this would suggest fuel system,crank sensor ,relays etc are all fine and i would be looking at the idle control valve or its connector.this would also explain the poor starting as the revs could be held too low.have you tried a cold start with a tiny bit of throttle ?.also disregarding the actual throttle cable has anyone ever messed with the stop screw or has it worked loose.
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During driving, though after a few times of it happening I realised it was never whilst actually moving, but when stationary (eg: at roundabout/T junction), I'd move from P or N, into D. It may have happened differently a couple of times, too, say, off the accelerator, come to a stop, foot on brake, look down - engine's died.. but difficult to remember precisely.
There seems to be a 'sweet spot' when it happens - not immediately the car's satrted- because the idle is still high, not when the cars nicely warmed up over 90oC, but in between - idle has dropped to 500rpm, but the car's temp isn't up to normal operating temp yet.
Perhaps this is also related to, say, a drained battery which isn't having much charge put in it as fast as it could, so after those few mins the car's took out more than it's put in - after those few mins then the slow-to work alternator has finally brought the battery back up to a decent voltage... again, just a theory
idle control valve is a two min job to look at and check its operation, will add that to the list for tomorrow. :y
stop screw for the TPS? Haven't noticed it recently, but last time I did it was in the correct place - but will check this. Has never been fettled with - still has the little blob of yellow paint on the screw/nut done by Opel in the factory. :)
edit: Just to reiterate if I've not made it clear - we're not talking of a shakey idle which then shudders, and the engine dies - we're talking about a smooth idle - often the first I know of the engine cutting out is when I put my foot to the loud pedal and realise the revs are at 0. It just cuts out instantly, like the DISpack/ECU just loses all power(?)
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Right after a night I gave her a go. The only difference since last run is temperature, ie stone cold engine.
Last night's run she didn't do it, though I added she was still perhaps a little warm.
This morning no long, drawn out wait for the engine to fire, and could not get the engine to 'die'
Last night tested the old relay, on 12v and opened up and checked. Cleaned the contacts, also used some brake cleaner (best thing I could think of closest to electrical contact cleaner, ie: leaves no residue.) The relay seemed to function fine, however, equally swapping the relay seems to have cured the problem.
I'm still holding my breath, and I'll use the old girl for work tonight, give her another road test, but we shall see...
Is it really possible for the fuel pump relay to cause both the random stalling and the slow start? The second, maybe, but I'm just not happy that the sudden engine death could be caused by this - unless someone knows better. (Likely :D)
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which ever of the 2 relays you swapped BOTH are pretty important to get the car to start and idol ;D
fuel pump needed for petrol ,other relay for spark
think triangle of fire ,fuel (petrol) and heat (spark ) plus air
fuel pump relay was a very common fault on carltons etc (it combined 2 relays and a diode)
the fault had just the same symptoms as you describe ,had it a few times over the years
i do hope you found the problem
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which ever of the 2 relays you swapped BOTH are pretty important to get the car to start and idol ;D
fuel pump needed for petrol ,other relay for injectors...
(think triangle of fire ,fuel (petrol) and heat (spark ) plus air
fuel pump relay was a very common fault on carltons etc (it combined 2 relays and a diode)
the fault had just the same symptoms as you describe ,had it a few times over the years)
i do hope you found the problem
Fixed :y
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which ever of the 2 relays you swapped BOTH are pretty important to get the car to start and idol ;D
fuel pump needed for petrol ,other relay for injectors...
(think triangle of fire ,fuel (petrol) and heat (spark ) plus air
fuel pump relay was a very common fault on carltons etc (it combined 2 relays and a diode)
the fault had just the same symptoms as you describe ,had it a few times over the years)
i do hope you found the problem
Fixed :y
:-[ oh yes ,injectors
my triangle of fire is a pile of twaddle too now ;D
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So do I!!!
:D
Tomorrow she'll have had damn near 24 hrs sat in the cold so let's see how she starts. I have had the old relay apart as I say, so may swap it back - may not prove anything, if my cleaning has actually 'restored' it back to new. We'll see....
DG Ta for the edit. Just amazed I haven't snaffled a spare relay over the years, the scrap cars I've been in...
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And? And? WE NEED TO KNOW MAN!
Actually my money is on the IACV (idle valve) at this point..
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ICV was cleaned matter of weeks ago, soon as we've had our cornflakes we'll let you know. :D
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ICV was cleaned matter of weeks ago, soon as we've had our cornflakes we'll let you know. :D
Cornflakes? It's 10am! Bloody layabouts :P ;D
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Well....
still doing it. :'(
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You can read live data, IIRC?
How does it look for coolant temp when cold and warming up, plausible?
After that, I'd be thinking the IACV, despite cleaning, is knackered..
I had a car that used to do exactly the same - it would stall and die at the first junction, but only the first junction, after leaving home on a stone cold engine - this is a long time ago but it was the electric choke on the carb causing it; it could hold an idle in N but as soon as you dropped it into D (or stopped in D) it would die. You'd get exactly the same behaviour if the coolant temp sensor is way off base (reading too hot, opening the 'choke' early - in reality, leaning the mixture out) or the IACV can't open fast enough to 'catch' the stall caused by the drag of the TC..
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Coolant temp sensor is genuine GM bought from dealer, and about 3 years old (if the date of purchase - 05/08/16 - approximates date of fitting)
No mean of reading live data - not sure if Mr The Builder had that functionality when he was round, but I don't personally.
I've got a spare 'fine' ICV, I think the original to the car, the one she's got on her was off (like many components) a car in a scrappy (2000 reg FL 2.5 V6) with 37k miles on the clock. So I'd say it's excellent, but I'll swap it, and check the fitted on is ok.
More info - the battery voltage before setting off this a.m. was a slightly disconcerting 12.26v - this is a brand new battery which on delivery had 12.5v :( It reminds me of an issue I had last year when I discovered a missing earth wire, which was part of a charging issue. That wire got added. I'm thinking look for bad earths - however I'm wondering if the phrase that spreads fear into the heart of any petrolhead.... 'parasitic drain' is heading into view... :'(
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If your alternator is good, though, battery voltage won't have a thing to do with it once the car is running - you should be seeing ~14.4-14.7V regardless of what was in the battery before you started the car.. assuming we're talking about the stalling-at-a-junction symptom rather than the sometimes-slow-to-start symptom, of course :)
Of course.. an intermittent earth could cause the engine to stall - had that once on an MR2.. if the grounds for the coil packs came adrift/loose then the spark would disappear at the same time..
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That was my thought - yes, alternator good, but wondering if the grounds somewhere aren't 100%. The only thing that stops me thinking this is it was only last year, like I say, that I went over everything and I just broke my back taking wires off, looking at bright, shiny metal underneath, that hasn't seen the light of day since 1996 and thinking "yep, that's fine!"
Is it worth me swapping the other purple relay, couldn't hurt I suppose? Mind, the real issue we have is that it wasn't until abut 24hrs before she actually started to repeat the symptoms, so if I went for a drive now, having changed nothing, I suspect she wouldn't 'do it' same as last night, she was fine after fitting the 'Dave the Builder' relay. :-\
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Swapping the new relay for the one you didn't swap won't achieve anything as cutting out the supply to either the pump or the injectors has exactly the same effect... It turns the fuel off ::)
A second relay or bridge the fuel pump one, (immediately switch the engine on if you do this and disconnect it as soon as you finish your test drive, not doing so will potentially strain the pump).
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Right :y
So both relays 'bridged' or basically clamped in the 'on' position and see if the old brum brum still does 'the thing' and that rules them out. Good. Will have to wait a bit for a proper test as the car's still likely to be a bit warm. Will update...
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I wouldn't recommend bridging either of them... ;)
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Swapping the new relay for the one you didn't swap won't achieve anything as cutting out the supply to either the pump or the injectors has exactly the same effect... It turns the fuel off ::)
A second relay or bridge the fuel pump one, (immediately switch the engine on if you do this and disconnect it as soon as you finish your test drive, not doing so will potentially strain the pump).
Fair enough :y
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Coolant temp sensor is genuine GM bought from dealer, and about 3 years old (if the date of purchase - 05/08/16 - approximates date of fitting)
No mean of reading live data - not sure if Mr The Builder had that functionality when he was round, but I don't personally.
I've got a spare 'fine' ICV, I think the original to the car, the one she's got on her was off (like many components) a car in a scrappy (2000 reg FL 2.5 V6) with 37k miles on the clock. So I'd say it's excellent, but I'll swap it, and check the fitted on is ok.
More info - the battery voltage before setting off this a.m. was a slightly disconcerting 12.26v - this is a brand new battery which on delivery had 12.5v :( It reminds me of an issue I had last year when I discovered a missing earth wire, which was part of a charging issue. That wire got added. I'm thinking look for bad earths - however I'm wondering if the phrase that spreads fear into the heart of any petrolhead.... 'parasitic drain' is heading into view... :'(
Just checking - was the engine running before setting off; if so, as Aaron observes, the alternator is no longer doing its stuff, as it was in #14.
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Sorry, yes, that 12.26v was engine off. Checked it a little while ago and 12.5v (car been off all afternoon) :y
Currently having to make xmas presents, help making Tea, and trying to test my injector relay too ::)
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Took out the other purple relay, 'bench tested' it, clicks away merrily, took apart, cleaned contacts. Stuck it back in. Took a battery reading just out of interest, 12.46v... hopefully that won't drain to a similar level as yesterday, and that low reading was just an anomaly. :-\
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so if im reading correctly car stalls at junctions( in other words when required to idle or as revs are falling) but would happily drive at a constant speed all day long with no issues.?
if this is the case it does eliminate lots of things but would point to something connected to idling only such as icv or throttle stop.
also are the throttle plates nice and clean rather than gunked up.?
if the system works in a similar way to the older jetronic then with the idle valve pipe squeezed closed the revs would drop very low but the engine would still keep running.
the icv then brings it up to the correct speed via letting air bypass the throttle.
my 2.6 doesnt have this valve and my brothers 2.5 is not here to test it on so i cant give you any presise values at the moment to check.
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Cheers Mr CIH, right...
When cold/lukewarm and allowed to drop to 500rpm. When upto normal temp no issue. Is this temp related, or time related? Ye, as far as we can tell, normal driving, normal revs, all grand.
Having experienced a gummed up ICV this manifest as a shakey idle, which she doesn't have. I have observed that idle is approx 550rpm, I'd swear she always sat at 500rpm. So I appreciate ICV worth looking at.
Think I've said above, throttle body stop as per Opel factory settings..unfortunately!
TB plates are clean as a whistle, carb/brake cleaner'd them a matter of weeks ago.. again, sorry!
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The coolant sensor was reading about 75 degrees ,voltage 1.6 ish and the car was warm ,so I don't think there's an issue with that, i could not see anything alarming from live data , other than maf reading low at idol i think .i'd need to compare my maf reading,
the ICV has to be worth trying if you have a spare ,
one rare fault with that style ICV was a snap in the loom to it ,caused by flexing of the loom over time .
such a fault can occur on any sensor loom though :(
just remembered the other stored code was immobilizer but that cleared along with maf high and low voltage ,nothing in autobox or abs modules
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Cheers for the post, DTB, as I can't remember what was the data was. And thanks for turning up in the first place, of course!
Tomorrow I'll have an inspect / swap ICV. :)
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its worth a try because the icv has no impact on the quality of the idling speed ( a very slow idle may not be smooth on every engine depending on its basic condition)all it does is let air through as required to maintain a set idling speed. if the icv was stuck or sticky it just may not regulate it accurately .
its actually a motor inside with brushes and a comm so they can eventually wear out electrically not just get gummed up.also when cleaning them try to do it with the body upwards to prevent large amounts of cleaning stuff to get inside the actual motor. the shaft will have some kind of seal internally but can be harmed if soaked in some types of solvent.
also the wires/ terminals in the connector can sometimes slip back into the plug .they have done so on my jetronic system and touched each other under the rubber boot causing instant engine stall and damage to the idle control unit.(carlton 2.2)
you should see the terminals in the end all sat nice and level if theyre ok
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Ta :y
will report back, boss :y
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I was under mine earlier ,noticed an earth wire terminated to one of the fuel tank strap bolts ,
other end I assume goes to the pump/sender unit ,
dunno if the early Omega B have this :-\
looks like it's very vulnerable to corrosion ::)
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Don't remember seeing one of them, there! Will double check though. :y
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I was under mine earlier ,noticed an earth wire terminated to one of the fuel tank strap bolts ,
other end I assume goes to the pump/sender unit ,
dunno if the early Omega B have this :-\
looks like it's very vulnerable to corrosion ::)
Believe that's for static discharge, not an Earth connection in the normal sense
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Had a look - no sign of of on the OSF, OSR or NSR tank strap bolts. Can't get to NSF tank strap bolt, as that means being in the gutter, by traffic! :D
May be bringing her up on the front later today. Am going to give the quiescent discharge jobby a go from the KW battery guide. 12.33v this morning.. :(
Will give her a drive shortly, with the replacement ICV.
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Just done the guide - 0.01A draw on the 10A range.... which I think is fine. "When the current has settled it should typically be around 70 mA (0.07A) or less"
I think I've confirmed I don't have a parasitic drain?
just for scientific purposes, battery now reading 12.35V
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throretically thats a bit low however its cold weather at the moment and if it spins over fast i wouldnt worry too much about it.
i bet if you disconnected battery overnight it would still be similar voltage in the morning .
its something related to the idling running rather than it cutting out if you were on a motorway at a constant 70 all day long so that should eliminate fuel or many other issues.
same symptoms as a car with a carburettor having a blocked idling jet .will run forever at any engine speed other than idle.
keep at it !
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throretically thats a bit low however its cold weather at the moment and if it spins over fast i wouldnt worry too much about it.
i bet if you disconnected battery overnight it would still be similar voltage in the morning .
its something related to the idling running rather than it cutting out if you were on a motorway at a constant 70 all day long so that should eliminate fuel or many other issues.
same symptoms as a car with a carburettor having a blocked idling jet .will run forever at any engine speed other than idle.
keep at it !
Thank you!! :y
Now the ICV is swapped (was already clean, gave it a wee squirt of light oil just to make sure it was moving nice n free, before fitting) she still started awful. New info...
Idle appreciable struggles (approx 50-75rpm drop) when stationary and engage heated rear window, or even hold a couple of window buttons 'up'. I noticed this because the windows need reprogramming after the battery was disconnected this morning, doesn't normally murmur when I do this, from memory.
Also, on the first run round the block when I stuck headlamps on the MFD went black momentarily - which leads me to think charging issues.
Couldn't get her to stall, however, maybe cured, maybe just lucky... :-\
At idle, with load (h'lamps, heated seats and heated rear screen) 13.8v I think.
Oh, I see it's now raining. Well, that's good ::)
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throretically thats a bit low however its cold weather at the moment and if it spins over fast i wouldnt worry too much about it.
i bet if you disconnected battery overnight it would still be similar voltage in the morning .
its something related to the idling running rather than it cutting out if you were on a motorway at a constant 70 all day long so that should eliminate fuel or many other issues.
same symptoms as a car with a carburettor having a blocked idling jet .will run forever at any engine speed other than idle.
keep at it !
Thank you!! :y
Now the ICV is swapped (was already clean, gave it a wee squirt of light oil just to make sure it was moving nice n free, before fitting) she still started awful. New info...
Idle appreciable struggles (approx 50-75rpm drop) when stationary and engage heated rear window, or even hold a couple of window buttons 'up'. I noticed this because the windows need reprogramming after the battery was disconnected this morning, doesn't normally murmur when I do this, from memory.
Also, on the first run round the block when I stuck headlamps on the MFD went black momentarily - which leads me to think charging issues.
Couldn't get her to stall, however, maybe cured, maybe just lucky... :-\
At idle, with load (h'lamps, heated seats and heated rear screen) 13.8v I think.
Oh, I see it's now raining. Well, that's good ::)
Might not be a "charging" issue .. as in how much is getting into the battery .. but might be an alternator issue as it appears that as the alternator electrical load increases then the physical load placed on the engine to drive the alternator is increasing a huge amount, leading to the rpm drop mentioned.
Bit extreme I know, but do you have a spare alternator you could drop in to check ??
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No spare alternators, sadly :) The internals (the bit that generally fails) was replaced with one from a stupidly low mileage one, not too long ago, large amount of difference in wear on the 'brush' old vs new. :)
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Might it help to pop off the auxiliary belt to check for any play/roughness in the alternator bearings etc.?
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Worth a check, bearings may be getting on, they're original to the car.
I have told an 'untruth' above in as much as I do technically have an alternator - but it is in bits, in no state to be put on the car - it was its internals which are now in my alternator. Was going to swap the aux pulley for a freshly-greased one, but what with everything it's not really been the priority. I have two aux pulleys, one sits in the boot ready for swapping, I try and swap then annually. :)
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Try the idea of running the engine with no aux belt fitted, see if the RPM still changes significantly when heated rear screen/windows moved ... ie large electric load ??? Obviously needs a very well charged up battery before you start, or maybe even try it with a battery charger connected at the same time ???
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Hmm.. Ie: If rpm doesn't alterbthat proves is in the alternator / charging system? Worth a go. :y
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The rpm may well drop with the belts attached and alternator working as the extra load would make the alternator work harder But. That's one of the jobs of the icv.to bring the speed back up to the set level.( ideally quick enough so as not to notice it)(maybee with the icv connector unplugged it may show more ?)
With the belts off nothing should realy happen unless the battery is very low as there wouldn't be any physical loading anywhere.
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Right chaps, today's daily update.
- God, this might as well turn into a 0-60 thread :D -
Turned her over, struggled to start and then... knocked her off after barely 30 seconds running. I then conducted an experiment... I then fired her up again, she started instantly. Engine still stone cold, remember, and with a large volume of charge taken out the battery seconds ago.
I would suggest if the issue is entirely the battery not being charged / poor earth, etc, the engine shouldn't fire up straight away 2nd time. However, if the issue is down to a drained fuel line, then the first laboured start primed it, the second of course was instant, because the fuel line/rail was already primed. That's my opinion, anyway :)
The stalling does feel very 'ECU dying' and related to the electric side of things, though I agree.
Went underneath, cleaned the ground lead both ends with wet n dry, gave the block a good clean up, too. I visually examined the connections at the alternator and to be honest they looked fine, grey and dry, no dusty corrosion or anything (though didn't actually undo any as it's so cramped to get at them, I'll admit)
Main wire to starter looked a bit rusty, to be honest. Worth giving that a clean? or is that not affecting anything here?
Finally can anyone confirm there's another ground connection at the rear, behind a panel in the boot. Found a reference by Kevin Wood from years ago, but I couldn't see one anywhere. I thought it worth checking as I recently had a rear end respray and it's not beyond the realms of impossibility that they snapped/removed it during the job. But I can't see one. :-\
So, more evidence, what do we think? :y
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Does the MID go blank when the engine cuts?
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Don't recall it doing so, pretty sure it doesn't. Just lights on binnacle like ignition position 'II'. I've sat with engine idling, knocked headlamps on, and the screen goes black momentarily, however, knock lamps off, then repeat and the screen stays fully illuminated, as normal :-\
Tomorrow after work I'll go on a test drive, car is still on axle stands out front at present, but needs to be back on the road for Monday, see if I can get her to repeat the issue, and double check. :y
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Right, test drive.... same as before/worse than ever, if anything!
Took a good while to start, nearly caught several times, I'd say 5-8 seconds. I'll put this down to her being barely run, started several times, switched off moments about 24 hours ago. Made sure I went for a 10min drive just to get things moving again, get the battery back up to normal. Still did the stalling thing, of course ::)
Oh, MID didn't go black, DG.
So, open fuel cap, rag and match, then.
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Injector loom correctly and fully plugged in following Dis pack work?
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As in the plug that physically goes into the DIS pack? Should be, at least my moving it means its the work of moments to check.
It does feel like something there could be of issue, for instance an overflexed section of loom, which is breaking down, now its relocated.
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As in the plug that physically goes into the DIS pack? Should be, at least my moving it means its the work of moments to check.
It does feel like something there could be of issue, for instance an overflexed section of loom, which is breaking down, now its relocated.
is the coilpack bolted down to metal if relocated ? do the bolts form the earth on these ,they do on some Vauxhalls :-\
has the crank sensor been swapped :-\ i can't remember ,try the original :-\
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As in the plug that physically goes into the DIS pack? Should be, at least my moving it means its the work of moments to check.
It does feel like something there could be of issue, for instance an overflexed section of loom, which is breaking down, now its relocated.
Nope. As in the loom that connects to the injectors... ::) sodding great plug with 8 wires that officially clips to the rear lifting eye. Which is next to the dis pack... ;)
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Ah, that one :y Well, again, as far as I'm aware. I'll have to check tomorrow, its a bit tucked away.
And no, the DIS pack isn't 'earthed' via any of its bolts...should it be? :-\
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And crank sensor is genuine GM brand new, however you're right, as there was no issue with the original, I was thinking today of swapping back. Next time she's up in the air ill try it. :y
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Ah, that one :y Well, again, as far as I'm aware. I'll have to check tomorrow, its a bit tucked away.
And no, the DIS pack isn't 'earthed' via any of its bolts...should it be? :-\
put some electricary rope on all 4 bolt lugs,and connect electricary rope to a earth and find out ;D
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Fair point :y
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Got in from work at about 8.30pm last night, (Miss DBG leaves for work at about 7am, I don't get back till about 8-9pm hence only time to work on the V6 is when days off coincide) so wasn't especially keen to fumble around in the dark fitting a jury-rigged earth wire :) however, in a way glad I didnt, as she fired up absolutely fine this morning! :o
Of course I'm not suggesting she's suddenly cured, but at least had I fitted it the evidence would be 'yes! that was the issue' So we'll see how she goes and probably Sat I'll do some more digging, got a couple of things to try thanks to you chaps. :y
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Noticed Terry Paget had a similar issue not too long ago... could I get a second opinion from someone (link below)
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=138599.15
As I read it he appears to be suggesting there was a leak from one of the hoses going to the top of the fuel pump, due to use of jubbly clips, not fuel hose clips... mine are the 'proper' clips, however they have been off and on quite a few times, wondering if they've been bent / deformed once too many times. :-\
Doesnt answer the random stall issue, but the slow start fits.
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I recall the fault well; jubille clip not sealing completely due to the female nut part of the clip being of fixed curvature. I suffered similarly recently on changing radiator and using 40-60 mm jubilee clips on 48mm pipes.
In the fuel pump example, the leak was inside the pump so no fuel was lost, but the fuel line could drain overnight into the tank delaying morning engine start. It did not affect normal running.
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You are definitely right, DBG....
...this is becoming a 0-60 thread! 🤣
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I recall the fault well; jubille clip not sealing completely due to the female nut part of the clip being of fixed curvature. I suffered similarly recently on changing radiator and using 40-60 mm jubilee clips on 48mm pipes.
In the fuel pump example, the leak was inside the pump so no fuel was lost, but the fuel line could drain overnight into the tank delaying morning engine start. It did not affect normal running.
It would seem to fit all-too-coincidentally as this issue arose right after my replacing the fuel pump. I'm trying to find the correct size clic type clamps, though appreciate 'screwable' fuel hose clips (which I have elsewhere on a repaired section of corroded fuel line) would work just as well.
Mr The Bear... I'm not sure if that's a good thing or not! Still, at least it keeps us all chatting ;D
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Well, latest in the saga...
replaced the fuel hose clips with good quality stainless ones. The old clic type ones had been bent and distorted once to often looking at the removed ones (in spite of the correct type pliers used to undo them) anyway the numbers on them size 140 suggested ona website this is for 14-16mm hose. So I ordered some 14-16mm screw type fuel hose clips.
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/tlAAAOSwHcpcox29/s-l300.jpg)
Fitted last night, started her up, primed fuel lines ready for this morning... still did the slow start! >:( My question being....
just how tight are you supposed to do them? I did the ones internal to the tank what felt 'enough' with a fair amount of thread then protruding, the external ones seemed happy to go a bit tighter. Should the two flats of the hose clamp essentially be touching? Or have I ordered too large a size, in spite of my research? :-\
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Touching suggests too big :-\
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Just checked my old ebay purchases, 15mm(outside diameter), and (presumably) 14-16mm clamps for the fuel line repair from last year. Would assume the other hoses, those just above and inside the tank are the same diameter (she's got the car all day/week now so can't check)
I bought 10 clamps, so I've just nipped a surplus one up and yes, 14-16mm is what it measures, and is what's stamped on it, so I havent been sent the wrong size or anything like that.
My plan is to give them a real nip up, essentially tight as they'll go - without stripping threads obviously - and see where we are then. Really need someone who's replaced theirs to confirm what size they used - can Mr Paget remember?
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They don't need to be particularly tight, once they've started to compress the hose then they should seal. Like Jubilee clips, using the smallest one(there's a big overlap in the sizes) works best.
Jubilee suggest that their clip in that size, tightened to 3.4Nm will hold 203psi of pressure. I've used them on numerous FI fuel lines with no problems.
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Hmm.. My only thought is that as these are old hoses, ie already 'squished' by previous clips, that their external diameter has shrunken somewhat ??? But as you say Nick they shouldn't surely need to be all that tight, really.
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read the codes recently after i cleared them ?
on the list of DTCs was immobilizer fault, top of list
wonder if it's a case of the transponder not reading now n then :-\
mine did that a few mornings ago, took the key out ,flipped it round and off it went ::)
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I haven't mate, no. But not exactly rocket science to dig out the olde paperclip, so will report back. :y
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Just checked the fuel clips I bought last year... 13-15mm. Ugh!! I have a couple spare which I keep with a bit of nitrile hose in the boot.. Will reso the clips using these smaller ones, then. Just to confirm once and for all that fuel weeping is -or isn't- the cause of this starting issue.
Wish id realised I had several sat in my chuffing boot before I ordered ten, of the wrong size!! Bad luck and stupidity are hitting me a bit heavily of late...
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Did you ever get to the bottom of this?
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Noticed Terry Paget had a similar issue not too long ago... could I get a second opinion from someone (link below)
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=138599.15
As I read it he appears to be suggesting there was a leak from one of the hoses going to the top of the fuel pump, due to use of jubbly clips, not fuel hose clips... mine are the 'proper' clips, however they have been off and on quite a few times, wondering if they've been bent / deformed once too many times. :-\
Doesnt answer the random stall issue, but the slow start fits.
That was February 2017, seems like a long while ago. I think that was on the silver Omega estate I bought from forum member ajsphead that I scrapped some while ago, rust. Since then I have had more trouble replacing Vx spring clips with jubilee clips, will I never learn?
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👍👍