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[Nickbat]

Couldn't find the original thread, but it seems like the government could have (and could still) exclude Siemens, thus giving the Thameslink contract to Bombardier.

Reading this story, I get a whiff of something rotten...

http://www.thisisderbyshire.co.uk/Proof-rail-deal-scrapped/story-13023504-detail/story.html

 

[Marks DTM Calib]

I cant see anything rotten, I wouldn't have awarded them the contract either given its a train type that they ahev never designed or constructed before.

Its like having Rover turn up to build the next set of military armoured cars!

[Richie London]

I cant see anything rotten, I wouldn't have awarded them the contract either given its a train type that they ahev never designed or constructed before.

Its like having Rover turn up to build the next set of military armoured cars!

with the head gasket keep going 

[Nickbat]

I cant see anything rotten, I wouldn't have awarded them the contract either given its a train type that they ahev never designed or constructed before.

Its like having Rover turn up to build the next set of military armoured cars!

Can't agree with that sweeping statement at all, Mark. Bombardier have a pretty good record worldwide and recognised what was needed for this project.

http://www.therailengineer.com/FeaturedArticles/railengineer/view/72

[Marks DTM Calib]

I cant see anything rotten, I wouldn't have awarded them the contract either given its a train type that they ahev never designed or constructed before.

Its like having Rover turn up to build the next set of military armoured cars!

Can't agree with that sweeping statement at all, Mark. Bombardier have a pretty good record worldwide and recognised what was needed for this project.

http://www.therailengineer.com/FeaturedArticles/railengineer/view/72

Means jack, the spec for the Thameslink stuff is a bit unusual (and nowt like they have done before) plus, the current Bombardier stuff has been having 'issues'.

Yes, I am sure thay could design one but, its a risk for the operator and not one I would take personaly (because the public will only moan like hell when it keeps failing).

I should add, I do have a bit of inside knowledge via a friend who works there.

[Nickbat]

By the way, the "rotten" bit I was referring to was the fact that Siemens has been heavily fined for bribery in the US & Germany and was barred for two years from bidding for contracts from the World Bank...   

[Nickbat]

I cant see anything rotten, I wouldn't have awarded them the contract either given its a train type that they ahev never designed or constructed before.

Its like having Rover turn up to build the next set of military armoured cars!

Can't agree with that sweeping statement at all, Mark. Bombardier have a pretty good record worldwide and recognised what was needed for this project.

http://www.therailengineer.com/FeaturedArticles/railengineer/view/72

Means jack, the spec for the Thameslink stuff is a bit unusual (and nowt like they have done before) plus, the current Bombardier stuff has been having 'issues'.

Yes, I am sure thay could design one but, its a risk for the operator and not one I would take personaly (because the public will only moan like hell when it keeps failing).

I should add, I do have a bit of inside knowledge via a friend who works there.

They make pretty good aircraft. 

[cleggy]

I understand that BOMBARDIER, have got vital components e.g the bogies already built, and tested where as SIEMENS are still at the drawing board stage.

Besides as I have stated before, EU law states that the location of the supplier can be taken into account, so the government can use this (as France, and Germany do) to award the conract to Derby.

[Rods2]

What I read was that the issue was not technical, but financial. The company who won the contract have to supply all of the investment finance to build them. Siemans are a much bigger company with a better credit rating so they can borrow the money much more cheaply which gives them about a £200m borrowing cost and price advantage. 

If the last Labour Government had set the terms of the contract so the finances were separate from the technical abilities then Bombardier would have been able to compete on a level playing field. 

Politicians are experts on the laws on unintended consequences, to make sure they include them every time.    They don't care as they have their gold plated expense accounts, diamond encrusted pensions and on the unlikely chance of them being in the duck (sorry dog) house and being kicked out don't forget the big fat severance kickback.    It is the tax paying likes of us that picks up the bills for their constant mistakes. Just look at this situation and their record on defence procurement and IT projects 

 

[tunnie]

I hope Bombardier don't get it, their latest stock has appalling reliability, the Victoria line stock was late, they don't appear to be built well, too heavy (track upgrades needed) they also create a lot of heat, much more so than old stock.

Since launch had countless problems with, lets face it basic operations:

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23969134-mind-the-doors-then-tube-train-leaves-station-with-them-still-open.do

Bombardier has a history of delivering late trains with faults, I'm glad its going to Siemens! They also have a proven record with leccy trains, delivering them on time and to budget.

[Richie London]

whoever built the new underground metropiltan trains got it right, excellent with air conditioning making the journey very relaxing rather than sweat your balls off into london next to dirty smelly city gents who dont bother washing after a long days work

[Varche]

This argument is flawed. Isn't this why Britain no longer is a mass producer of good cars and exactly why Germany is?

Bombardier seem to have issues with quality listening to users but couldn't they have been addressed?

IF we ever get High speed trains who is going to build them? Germans? Spanish?Chinese? More jobs gone abroad or more correctly down the pan..............

[Marks DTM Calib]

This argument is flawed. Isn't this why Britain no longer is a mass producer of good cars and exactly why Germany is?

Bombardier seem to have issues with quality listening to users but couldn't they have been addressed?

IF we ever get High speed trains who is going to build them? Germans? Spanish?Chinese? More jobs gone abroad or more correctly down the pan..............

Yes and no.

The issue is that we no longer have multiple companies who can do this work and a train is not just a train, they are all very different with VERY different under pinnings. I blame lack of investement in the railways for a 30 year period resulting in the home grown companies going (althoguh they should have been better at exports tbh!)

E.g. the likes of Brush are ok at locos but, you would not want them doing multiple units. Bombardier are ok (not great sadly) at diesel multiple units but, not at electric jobbies.

[Martin_1962]

This argument is flawed. Isn't this why Britain no longer is a mass producer of good cars and exactly why Germany is?

Bombardier seem to have issues with quality listening to users but couldn't they have been addressed?

IF we ever get High speed trains who is going to build them? Germans? Spanish?Chinese? More jobs gone abroad or more correctly down the pan..............

Depends a lot were built at Derby carriage works.

Traction gear - does Brush still make it?

Engines - what is current state of Paxman?

Bogies - UK still world leading

[albitz]

Paxman - used to manufacture in Colchester iirc - bought out by MAN (German company afaik). I think they may still have some manufacturing capability in the UK,not sure though. :-/