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Author Topic: I think I have an aircon problem  (Read 2100 times)

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Andy A

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I think I have an aircon problem
« on: 16 August 2019, 10:19:29 »

The aircon is nice and cool but if I stop the car with the engine running for a short length of time, the car starts to make a grumbling creaking sound that can also be felt through the car floor. This has been the same since the car was recharged about a year ago after a few months of local driving with no cool air from the aircon. 

Is this normal behaviour for aircon to sound?

The other worrying thing that happened in the hotter weather recently was that I could hear the rad/condenser fans surging/switching to high and back to normal speed again and it was repeating this over and over, every couple of seconds or so.

I don't know how long the fans have been doing because I'm never out of the car with the engine left running and I always have the radio on. What could be the problem?

Thanks



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Lizzie Zoom

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Re: I think I have an aircon problem
« Reply #1 on: 16 August 2019, 11:49:03 »

I am certainly no expert on aircon, but have had some considerable experience of when it goes wrong.

However, nothing you describe matches my experience with aircon over many years and it is not normal running.  You do, regretfully, have a problem that could well be the compressor expiring, and I have had three compressors go myself.  The long period of the aircon not running may well have meant the system deteriorated, without the lubricating oil circulating and thus the compressor bearings may now be the problem with the system not circulating properly, hence the strange, unusual, sounds. 

Others more experienced will no doubt advise you further, but personally I would also go and get opinions from a/c specialists.  ;)

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Andy A

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Re: I think I have an aircon problem
« Reply #2 on: 16 August 2019, 14:27:56 »

I am certainly no expert on aircon, but have had some considerable experience of when it goes wrong.

However, nothing you describe matches my experience with aircon over many years and it is not normal running.  You do, regretfully, have a problem that could well be the compressor expiring, and I have had three compressors go myself.  The long period of the aircon not running may well have meant the system deteriorated, without the lubricating oil circulating and thus the compressor bearings may now be the problem with the system not circulating properly, hence the strange, unusual, sounds. 

Others more experienced will no doubt advise you further, but personally I would also go and get opinions from a/c specialists.  ;)

Thanks for the reply Lizzie.

I will have a good listen when the rain goes off to see if I can track down the noise from inside the engine bay.
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Re: I think I have an aircon problem
« Reply #3 on: 16 August 2019, 14:48:00 »

Spin the front fans by hand and check for roughness/damage. Obviously engine off and cold :y
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Re: I think I have an aircon problem
« Reply #4 on: 16 August 2019, 19:31:29 »

Spin the front fans by hand and check for roughness/damage. Obviously engine off and cold :y


This^^^^   sounds like the fans are cutting in, and as DG said motor bearings might be on the way out.     

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Andy A

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Re: I think I have an aircon problem
« Reply #5 on: 19 August 2019, 12:28:54 »

Checked the fans and all smooth running.

Started the engine with the aircon off and all sounded good.

Turned on the aircon and all sounded normal and the aircon is working well, nice and cold. The top aircon pipe in engine bay nice and cold.

After about 10-15 minutes with the aircon on, I here a grumbling noise that I can also feel through the floor of the car slightly and the high speed fans serge. Switch on and off every 2-3 seconds.

The best way I can explain the noise is like a house refrigerator when you first turn it on and you can here the motor/refrigerant grumbling.

This car has never done this in all the years I have owned it. It only started after the aircon re-charge.
« Last Edit: 19 August 2019, 12:34:50 by Andy A »
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LC0112G

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Re: I think I have an aircon problem
« Reply #6 on: 19 August 2019, 17:03:20 »

Checked the fans and all smooth running.

Started the engine with the aircon off and all sounded good.

Turned on the aircon and all sounded normal and the aircon is working well, nice and cold. The top aircon pipe in engine bay nice and cold.

After about 10-15 minutes with the aircon on, I here a grumbling noise that I can also feel through the floor of the car slightly and the high speed fans serge. Switch on and off every 2-3 seconds.

The best way I can explain the noise is like a house refrigerator when you first turn it on and you can here the motor/refrigerant grumbling.

This car has never done this in all the years I have owned it. It only started after the aircon re-charge.

The only moving part in the A/C system is the compressor. Well I suppose the gas and oil is moving as well, but that's not going to make a grumbling noise on it's own. So if you're convinced it isn't the fans it more or less has to be the compressor.

Next time it does it stop and take a listen with a mechanics stethoscope thingy - or a long extension bar resting against it. That should tell you where the noise is coming from.

If it's the compressor - what Gas did they put in? Any oil? 
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Andy A

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Re: I think I have an aircon problem
« Reply #7 on: 20 August 2019, 14:47:09 »

What socket do I test the rad fans high speed from on a 2003 facelift?
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Andy A

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Re: I think I have an aircon problem
« Reply #8 on: 20 August 2019, 15:22:47 »

What socket do I test the rad fans high speed from on a 2003 facelift?

The reason I ask is, the Violet connector under the bonnet has only 4 pins in mine and not 6.
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Andy A

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Re: I think I have an aircon problem
« Reply #9 on: 20 August 2019, 15:54:01 »

The Violet socket in mine only has 4 pins.

On my 2.2i I only have 1 front condenser fan and 1 rear radiator fan on mine.

Ignition off.

F1 turns condenser front and radiator rear fans on low.

F2 turns radiator rear fan on high but front condenser fan is not spinning at all.

Is this normal?

Ignition on and engine not running.

F1 and F2 terminals do nothing. No fans running at all.

Is this normal?

Thanks
« Last Edit: 20 August 2019, 15:56:05 by Andy A »
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Andy A

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Re: I think I have an aircon problem
« Reply #10 on: 21 August 2019, 12:25:41 »

I want to test the pressure in the aircon system to see if the garage has put too much refrigerant in the system. The noises only started after the recharge.

Can anyone recommend a cheap, half tidy, refrigeration aircon manifold gauge Set?

Does anyone know the data for the high and low side pressure, that is correct for the Omega aircon system and @ what idle speed please?

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LC0112G

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Re: I think I have an aircon problem
« Reply #11 on: 21 August 2019, 13:15:57 »

I want to test the pressure in the aircon system to see if the garage has put too much refrigerant in the system. The noises only started after the recharge.

Can anyone recommend a cheap, half tidy, refrigeration aircon manifold gauge Set?

Does anyone know the data for the high and low side pressure, that is correct for the Omega aircon system and @ what idle speed please?

Grrrr. Power cut after typing in a long reply. Effing national grid. Anyway...

It's actually illegal to work on a charged A/C system without the right qualifications. Which basically means you need an expensive but worthless training course, and a piece of paper with a tick in the right box from the nanny state. So with that in mind...

You can buy AC gauge sets off eBay easily enough, and they'll work. The problems are normally with getting the couplings onto cars filler ports to seal properly. Cheaper couplings tend to leak. However, even if you get the gauges to seal properly they won't tell you much more than you already know. A/C systems aren't filled by pressure, they're filled by mass(weight). The pressures vary by as much as 2:1 depending on the ambient temperature. The filling machine has a set of scales in it, and it measures the weight of the gas cylinder before and during filling. Once the correct mass of gas has been filled, the machine stops. I can't remember the correct weight for an Omega - something like 1.1Kg? 

With the engine not running, the low and high side ports will both show the same pressure - probably somewhere between 40psi(cold day low gas filling) and 100psi (very hot day, very full gas levels).

With the engine running, the high side will increase rapidly to between about 150psi and 300psi. The low side will drop slightly to probably somewhere between 30psi and 50psi.

The compressor is protected by both low and high pressure cut-out switches. If the pressure is too high or too low the compressor will either never turn on, or turn on and off again. It's quite difficult to damage anything by overfilling. Much more likely to damage it by not putting any oil in, or using the wrong sort of oil.

In short, if the top pipe is getting cold, and the compressor is staying engaged all the time (the triangular plate on the front of the compressor spinning) then there is likely to be acceptable levels of gas in it. If you suspect something is wrong, I'd take the car to a different A/C garage and ask them to test it. There may be a nominal charge (£10-£20) but as long as they don't have to drain it all down and re-charge it then you shouldn't have to pay for a full re-charge.
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Re: I think I have an aircon problem
« Reply #12 on: 21 August 2019, 14:42:16 »

I want to test the pressure in the aircon system to see if the garage has put too much refrigerant in the system. The noises only started after the recharge.

Can anyone recommend a cheap, half tidy, refrigeration aircon manifold gauge Set?

Does anyone know the data for the high and low side pressure, that is correct for the Omega aircon system and @ what idle speed please?

Grrrr. Power cut after typing in a long reply. Effing national grid. Anyway...

It's actually illegal to work on a charged A/C system without the right qualifications. Which basically means you need an expensive but worthless training course, and a piece of paper with a tick in the right box from the nanny state. So with that in mind...

You can buy AC gauge sets off eBay easily enough, and they'll work. The problems are normally with getting the couplings onto cars filler ports to seal properly. Cheaper couplings tend to leak. However, even if you get the gauges to seal properly they won't tell you much more than you already know. A/C systems aren't filled by pressure, they're filled by mass(weight). The pressures vary by as much as 2:1 depending on the ambient temperature. The filling machine has a set of scales in it, and it measures the weight of the gas cylinder before and during filling. Once the correct mass of gas has been filled, the machine stops. I can't remember the correct weight for an Omega - something like 1.1Kg

With the engine not running, the low and high side ports will both show the same pressure - probably somewhere between 40psi(cold day low gas filling) and 100psi (very hot day, very full gas levels).

With the engine running, the high side will increase rapidly to between about 150psi and 300psi. The low side will drop slightly to probably somewhere between 30psi and 50psi.

The compressor is protected by both low and high pressure cut-out switches. If the pressure is too high or too low the compressor will either never turn on, or turn on and off again. It's quite difficult to damage anything by overfilling. Much more likely to damage it by not putting any oil in, or using the wrong sort of oil.

In short, if the top pipe is getting cold, and the compressor is staying engaged all the time (the triangular plate on the front of the compressor spinning) then there is likely to be acceptable levels of gas in it. If you suspect something is wrong, I'd take the car to a different A/C garage and ask them to test it. There may be a nominal charge (£10-£20) but as long as they don't have to drain it all down and re-charge it then you shouldn't have to pay for a full re-charge.

950g in the omega.
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Andy A

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Re: I think I have an aircon problem
« Reply #13 on: 21 August 2019, 15:29:39 »

I want to test the pressure in the aircon system to see if the garage has put too much refrigerant in the system. The noises only started after the recharge.

Can anyone recommend a cheap, half tidy, refrigeration aircon manifold gauge Set?

Does anyone know the data for the high and low side pressure, that is correct for the Omega aircon system and @ what idle speed please?

Grrrr. Power cut after typing in a long reply. Effing national grid. Anyway...

It's actually illegal to work on a charged A/C system without the right qualifications. Which basically means you need an expensive but worthless training course, and a piece of paper with a tick in the right box from the nanny state. So with that in mind...

You can buy AC gauge sets off eBay easily enough, and they'll work. The problems are normally with getting the couplings onto cars filler ports to seal properly. Cheaper couplings tend to leak. However, even if you get the gauges to seal properly they won't tell you much more than you already know. A/C systems aren't filled by pressure, they're filled by mass(weight). The pressures vary by as much as 2:1 depending on the ambient temperature. The filling machine has a set of scales in it, and it measures the weight of the gas cylinder before and during filling. Once the correct mass of gas has been filled, the machine stops. I can't remember the correct weight for an Omega - something like 1.1Kg? 

With the engine not running, the low and high side ports will both show the same pressure - probably somewhere between 40psi(cold day low gas filling) and 100psi (very hot day, very full gas levels).

With the engine running, the high side will increase rapidly to between about 150psi and 300psi. The low side will drop slightly to probably somewhere between 30psi and 50psi.

The compressor is protected by both low and high pressure cut-out switches. If the pressure is too high or too low the compressor will either never turn on, or turn on and off again. It's quite difficult to damage anything by overfilling. Much more likely to damage it by not putting any oil in, or using the wrong sort of oil.

In short, if the top pipe is getting cold, and the compressor is staying engaged all the time (the triangular plate on the front of the compressor spinning) then there is likely to be acceptable levels of gas in it. If you suspect something is wrong, I'd take the car to a different A/C garage and ask them to test it. There may be a nominal charge (£10-£20) but as long as they don't have to drain it all down and re-charge it then you shouldn't have to pay for a full re-charge.

Thanks LC0112G for taking the time to explain and for the info.  :y

Thanks biggriffin.  :y
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