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[aaronjb]

That's the mistake everyone makes..

Oh, look! Old boiler! Must replace it. In doing so, you replace a non condensing model that'll last 30-40 years with basic maintenance, with a condensing one that will be lucky to see 10 years.

The boiler manufacturers must have been laughing when the government played straight into their hands and mandated condensing boilers as it immediately builds in obsolescence into their product.

Well I'd "budget" for one, so had something spare if needed. I'm quite happy to wait for it to go bang 

For what it's worth, £3k is probably a high quote unless you're living in a palace .. my last boiler cost me £1500, and that was switching from a boiler that fed a hot water tank over to a combi (so a lot of replumbing).

I'm sure if I'd asked British Gash to quote, though, it would have been £5k... (fairly sure my parents paid BG £3-4k for more or less the same work as I paid an indy £1500 for!)

[Andy B]

That's the mistake everyone makes..

Oh, look! Old boiler! Must replace it. In doing so, you replace a non condensing model that'll last 30-40 years with basic maintenance, with a condensing one that will be lucky to see 10 years.

The boiler manufacturers must have been laughing when the government played straight into their hands and mandated condensing boilers as it immediately builds in obsolescence into their product.

Well I'd "budget" for one, so had something spare if needed. I'm quite happy to wait for it to go bang 

For what it's worth, £3k is probably a high quote unless you're living in a palace .. my last boiler cost me £1500, and that was switching from a boiler that fed a hot water tank over to a combi (so a lot of replumbing).

I'm sure if I'd asked British Gash to quote, though, it would have been £5k... (fairly sure my parents paid BG £3-4k for more or less the same work as I paid an indy £1500 for!)

The boiler I've just had fitted is the same boiler that BG quoted £4500 for.  £500 of that was for scaffolding to reach a feet up the house roof from my flat garage roof.

[aaronjb]

The boiler I've just had fitted is the same boiler that BG quoted £4500 for.  £500 of that was for scaffolding to reach a feet up the house roof from my flat garage roof.

Ah the old Elf & Safety.. next door had BG out to do something on their boiler before they moved and they, too, ended up with three vans full of guys and scaffolding, all to reach the (flat!) roof of their garage. Tis no wonder the quotes are eye watering..

[Kevin Wood]

That's the mistake everyone makes..

Oh, look! Old boiler! Must replace it. In doing so, you replace a non condensing model that'll last 30-40 years with basic maintenance, with a condensing one that will be lucky to see 10 years.

The boiler manufacturers must have been laughing when the government played straight into their hands and mandated condensing boilers as it immediately builds in obsolescence into their product.

Well I'd "budget" for one, so had something spare if needed. I'm quite happy to wait for it to go bang 

For what it's worth, £3k is probably a high quote unless you're living in a palace .. my last boiler cost me £1500, and that was switching from a boiler that fed a hot water tank over to a combi (so a lot of replumbing).

I'm sure if I'd asked British Gash to quote, though, it would have been £5k... (fairly sure my parents paid BG £3-4k for more or less the same work as I paid an indy £1500 for!)

A good rule of thumb is to get a quote from BG and then halve it, apparently.

I can't understand why it's headline news every time their gas prices rise either.
Surely there isn't anyone left on earth who's stupid enough to be on BG's standard tariff for gas?

[Kevin Wood]

Kevin is right - I think. We do have a header tank in the loft, but last winter for some reason the water in it was getting very (very!) hot. There is no lid on the tank, so it steams. Steam into a cold (in winter) loft results in condensation, which if left will probably cause damp. So something needs doing, just not sure what ATM.

It's a 1960's house, originally with a back boiler (behind the fireplace) and electric immersion heater. Gas central heating was added in the late 60's and the original boiler soldered on till about 2001. The header tank in the loft definately didn't get hot with that. That old boiler finally packed up and was replaced by the Baxi which we still have. Initially I don't remember the tank 'steaming' and I'm pretty sure I would have noticed - there is a lot of junk in the loft including the Christmas decorations which come down and go up once a year.

We had a small extension built about 3 years ago, and the Baxi was moved to accommodate the new kitchen layout. Then last winter I noticed the 'steaming' in the loft. Now the Baxi has packed up, but at least we still have the (50 year old!) immersion heater for hot water, and no urgent need to get the central heating working - at least for a month or two.

I like the sound of the System heater - it's not a combi so does heat a tank full of hot (tap) water, and doesn't require a header tank so that solves the 'steaming' loft issue at the same time. We have had multiple CH pumps pack u over the years due to the very hard water here, so having the pump integrated into the boiler is a bit of a concern.

I only posted my woes to try and put some context into the prices being touted to moggy though.

A few things ring alarm bells there. Firstly, hard water shouldn't have much impact on the life of the primary side of the system. You fill it once, and once the calcium in that batch of water has been deposited somewhere, you don't get any more forming. If you are getting issue due to calcium building up, then the system must be topping itself up and constantly therefore adding more calcium.

If the header tank is getting hot then the system could be boiling due to a faulty boiler thermostat, poor circulation around the boiler or perhaps the system has been plumbed in such a way that water can get pumped over the air vent pipe through the header tank. That will cause evaporation, and topping-up, and perhaps your calcium issues?

I'm guessing the boiler move resulted in such an issue that wasn't spotted at the time?

Going to a sealed system might well solve the issues, if not simply because you notice when topping up is required because it has to be done manually! It might be a lottery on a system that old as to whether it is happy with the increased pressure, mind.

[aaronjb]

Going to a sealed system might well solve the issues, if not simply because you notice when topping up is required because it has to be done manually! It might be a lottery on a system that old as to whether it is happy with the increased pressure, mind.

Exactly what happened for me in Bracknell - the old vented system was likely topping itself up constantly due to a small leak in an under-floor pipe, which became very apparent once I switched to a sealed pressurised system.

That limped along until the small leak grew to such a point that it needed refilling every day, at which point the tenants were a bit unhappy (actually I kid, they are very understanding tenants!) and we had to dig up half the concrete kitchen floor to find and fix the leak..

[Kevin Wood]

Going to a sealed system might well solve the issues, if not simply because you notice when topping up is required because it has to be done manually! It might be a lottery on a system that old as to whether it is happy with the increased pressure, mind.

Exactly what happened for me in Bracknell - the old vented system was likely topping itself up constantly due to a small leak in an under-floor pipe, which became very apparent once I switched to a sealed pressurised system.

That limped along until the small leak grew to such a point that it needed refilling every day, at which point the tenants were a bit unhappy (actually I kid, they are very understanding tenants!) and we had to dig up half the concrete kitchen floor to find and fix the leak..

Yeah, I think Chrisgixer was in the midst of the same fun and games in his place in notReadingHam last time I was there. Built before they realised that burying copper pipes in concrete without any protection was a bad plan.

[LC0112G]

A few things ring alarm bells there. Firstly, hard water shouldn't have much impact on the life of the primary side of the system. You fill it once, and once the calcium in that batch of water has been deposited somewhere, you don't get any more forming. If you are getting issue due to calcium building up, then the system must be topping itself up and constantly therefore adding more calcium.

All I know is that over the years we've probably needed a new pump every 5 years. Dunno why for sure - hard water was suggested by the last repairer but that could be 'dangle berries'.

If the header tank is getting hot then the system could be boiling due to a faulty boiler thermostat, poor circulation around the boiler or perhaps the system has been plumbed in such a way that water can get pumped over the air vent pipe through the header tank. That will cause evaporation, and topping-up, and perhaps your calcium issues?

I'm guessing the boiler move resulted in such an issue that wasn't spotted at the time?

It's not been my problem till recently, so I have tried to avoid getting involved. I've never tried to get my head around how the CH works, or how it interacts with the immersion heater. I don't think there is (well was) anything wrong with the boiler, but I do suspect the plumbing may have been messed up when the boiler was moved for the extension. From memory hot water does drip from the U bend overflow in the loft back into the header tank.

Going to a sealed system might well solve the issues, if not simply because you notice when topping up is required because it has to be done manually! It might be a lottery on a system that old as to whether it is happy with the increased pressure, mind.

We've been in the house since it was built and the CH added. We're therefore 99.9% certain none of the pipes are buried in the floor. The heating engineer that came and diagnosed the duff boiler did raise buried pipework as a concern, but said if we were convinced that none of the pipes are buried in the concrete floor then he would recommend the System boiler. Some radiator pipes are buried/chased into the vertical walls, but the vast majority of the pipework is under the floorboards on the first floor. All bar the most recent plumbing (done during the extension work) is proper copper pipes, with soldered joints.

[Andy H]

All bar the most recent plumbing (done during the extension work) is proper copper pipes, with soldered joints.

Do you know what the specification of the new pipework is? If it is plastic then it MUST have an 'oxygen barrier' (hence the term 'barrier pipe') to prevent oxygen from the air migrating through the walls of the pipe.

[LC0112G]

All bar the most recent plumbing (done during the extension work) is proper copper pipes, with soldered joints.

Do you know what the specification of the new pipework is? If it is plastic then it MUST have an 'oxygen barrier' (hence the term 'barrier pipe') to prevent oxygen from the air migrating through the walls of the pipe.

The stuff I can see is grey, and marked Poly Plumbing Class 5 17mm barrier pipe, H&C blah blah blah. However, I think this only goes to the new utility room extension which has a hot feed to the washing machine and a small sink. The radiator in there is tapped off another radiator in the main house hallway, again using grey plastic pipe which is laid (though not buried) in the concrete floor. All the pipework directly connected to the boiler is still copper.