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[tunnie]

Can someone recommend a good 4 port KVM Switch for me?

Must be USB, as the mini mac i will get does't have PS2 ports.

I'd like one that would come with all the cables needed. I saw this one on dabs, any one else recommend one?

http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/ProductInfo.asp?WebProductID=200320

[Markie]

errrr thats double dutch to me tunnie - Jamies yer man there is he not, by the way where is he ?  

[tunnie]

errrr thats double dutch to me tunnie - Jamies yer man there is he not, by the way where is he ?  

 

Dunno did't think he was on hols for this long, no doubt he will show me a good one, but at what price!!

KVM stands for Keyboard Video Mouse, it alloys you to control multiple PC's though 1 Keyboard, 1 Mouse, 1Screen.

In my case I want to control 4 computers though 1 set....

[Timbuk]

errrr thats double dutch to me tunnie -

Wait till you've had a few tinnies later Markiec and all will become much much clearer [smiley=2vrolijk_08.gif]

[Markie]

errrr thats double dutch to me tunnie -

Wait till you've had a few tinnies later Markiec and all will become much much clearer [smiley=2vrolijk_08.gif]

  true i will probably be importing them and reselling them ( still not knowing what they do))

[Taxi_Driver]

Can someone recommend a good 4 port KVM Switch for me?

Must be USB, as the mini mac i will get does't have PS2 ports.

I'd like one that would come with all the cables needed. I saw this one on dabs, any one else recommend one?

http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/ProductInfo.asp?WebProductID=200320

Sorry m8....only ones i used were PS2 types

Can you get a USB to PS2 converter for the Mac? If so a ps2 type kvm might be a cheaper option?  :-/

[RonaldMcBurger]

I got one last week from our local computer fair. 4 USB, keyboard & Mouse. you also get a spoace to keep your pens. Wooooo!. £5. No use to you, just though I would brag.

[CaptainZok]

I got one last week from our local computer fair. 4 USB, keyboard & Mouse. you also get a spoace to keep your pens. Wooooo!. £5. No use to you, just though I would brag.

How many pens though?

[tunnie]

I got one last week from our local computer fair. 4 USB, keyboard & Mouse. you also get a spoace to keep your pens. Wooooo!. £5. No use to you, just though I would brag.

Feek sake!!  

Cheapist ones i have seen are £40  

[Taxi_Driver]

I got one last week from our local computer fair. 4 USB, keyboard & Mouse. you also get a spoace to keep your pens. Wooooo!. £5. No use to you, just though I would brag.

Feek sake!!  

Cheapist ones i have seen are £40  

Dont think Rons switches the video tho....he didnt mention it  :-/ and you can get types that dont
So as he says no use to you!

[tunnie]

Good point i assumend it includes Video?

I'll keep looking, I keep changing my mine between a new MacBook and getting a MiniMac, and a new big TFT

[sounds2k]

I have an a-ten "masterview" cs-1764 connected to PCs and a mac mini, it has USB, audio and DVI connections - the only problem is that I have to drop the mac mini screen resolution to 1280x1024 or else I get artefacting which isn't present if I plug the monitor in directly - I believe it's something to do with signal timings. Basically there are green or magenta dots on the screen where there shouldn't be!

Oddly enough the PC is fine though at 1600x1200.

I got it off fleabay - cost £120 - but can't see an identical one listed at present.

[tunnie]

wow your TFT goes to a high res, most big onesi seen don't go that high.

We used LG Flatrons at my old work, great monitors. I was thinking of this:

http://www.ebuyer.com/UK/product/109928

But highest res is 1280 x 1024

[TheBoy]

For hi res you need to spend decent cash. Avocent do some top banana ones, can even do file transfer over the thing, and control power. And it works over IP, so you get console access where ever you are. I use a PS/2 version here, but the usb dongles are only £200 each.  A 16 port DSR is around £4k, the power bits are expensive, as is the software that authenticates you...

http://www.avocent.com

[tunnie]

For hi res you need to spend decent cash. Avocent do some top banana ones, can even do file transfer over the thing, and control power. And it works over IP, so you get console access where ever you are. I use a PS/2 version here, but the usb dongles are only £200 each.  A 16 port DSR is around £4k, the power bits are expensive, as is the software that authenticates you...

http://www.avocent.com

Wish I had that at the school i worked at, I would want to buy that if i was a network manager...but a bit steep for my student budget!

I was thinking less than £50 for the whole lot including cables and the box itself.

[sounds2k]

I went for DVI as I'm running a 20" flat screen ... cost me about £450 at the time but was about the same price as the 19" CRT it replaced (or should I say the same price as I paid for the CRT it replaced)

having used the CRT on PCs running through KVM switches (ie in VGA not DVI), you lose picture quality - even if you get decent cables - the higher the resolution you run the screen at, the higher the refresh rate and the longer the cable run, the more quality you'll lose. Typified by the brightness being lower and a loss of picture sharpness on high contrast (eg black text on a white background) - the edges of the text become a bit blurry.

Stick to low-ish resolution (1024x768 or thereabouts) and a low-ish refresh rate (75Hz) and you should be OK with a cheapo KVM switchbox. You'll probably be OK on that flatron screen at 1280x1024 if you set the refresh rate low - refresh rate isn't as important on TFTs anyway so keep it low (60Hz is usually the lowest) and you should get the best picture quality.

Beyond that sort of resolution I'd seriously be looking into DVI instead of VGA for connecting the screen if I was you !!!

[Sir_Mixalot]

tunnie as i understand it you want to switch:
1xVGA (screen)
2xUSB (keyboard & mouse)
between 2 computers (doesn't matter if they are mac, pc or whatever)

therefore that first product you selected from Scan at £42 is exactly what you want...Maybe other IT stores will have a similar thing cheaper (Ebuyer, CCL Computers, poss Ebay...), so look around.  I would say it would be worth going for a branded/more expensive one though, that £42 seems ideal for your needs.

[Jimbob]

Ive used a lot, including installing data centre solutions for a large bank, talking units from £50 to £10000, and to be honest they are not great.

Have you thought about a software solution?  ie using remote control software over a network?

I think this will work out much cheaper for you, and you will probably be happier with the results.

Biggest problem ive had with kvm is picture quality, its ok for business apps, but not much more than that, another issue can be the mouse, they often need re-syncing because the mouse doesnt match the cursor movement.

If you want to take this to PM i may be able to recommend you some software.
This solution may or may not suit your requirements, If you can have 1 computer on, to use to access the others, then its fine.  If you want to just use computer 3 today, 4 tomorrow etc, then its not so good.

[Goonlord]

Can someone recommend a good 4 port KVM Switch for me?

Must be USB, as the mini mac i will get does't have PS2 ports.

I'd like one that would come with all the cables needed. I saw this one on dabs, any one else recommend one?

http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/ProductInfo.asp?WebProductID=200320

Er........ I've got a number4 meccano set

[tunnie]

Ive used a lot, including installing data centre solutions for a large bank, talking units from £50 to £10000, and to be honest they are not great.

Have you thought about a software solution?  ie using remote control software over a network?

I think this will work out much cheaper for you, and you will probably be happier with the results.

Biggest problem ive had with kvm is picture quality, its ok for business apps, but not much more than that, another issue can be the mouse, they often need re-syncing because the mouse doesnt match the cursor movement.

If you want to take this to PM i may be able to recommend you some software.
This solution may or may not suit your requirements, If you can have 1 computer on, to use to access the others, then its fine.  If you want to just use computer 3 today, 4 tomorrow etc, then its not so good.

Thanks for the replys all, I have looked around including Amazon & eBuyer. eBuyer have the best selection and used them many times before, they have loads of 2 port KVM's and some 4 port ones, but mostly PS2 ones. The USB ones did't have cables though.

Thanks for the info on the screen res, I have a few ideas on that:

Get a monitor with DVi input, and connect the MiniMac directly to the monitor. Which would allow me to get very high res when using the mac, i can use the source button to select back to VGA and then use the KVM.

Although I think that LG Flatron did'nt do DVi input..

[Jimbob]

fyi....If you are now looking at a different approach, may I suggest a look at some of the viewsonic monitors, mine is a VP191B (off top of head) which as 1 dvi and 2 vga connections, thats 1 monitor on 3 computers! (good selection on www.overclockers.co.uk normally), that would just leave you needing KM switch (or KVM but ignore the weak V part).

[TheBoy]

The LG Flatron I am currently using has DVI...

...isn't the mini-Mac getting a little long in the tooth now...?

[bob.dent]

You want one with a good video output. Dont go buying a crappy one for like £5 as more than likely you wont be able to push the resolution much above 1024x768 and refresh rates above 60hz will most likely cause image ghosting and damage to the switch itself.

The one you posted from Scan looks damn decent, at only 45 quid. The USB part itself is only a standard USB hub, which you can pick up for pennies anywhere.

Resolution of 2048x1536 and a video bandwidth of 400mhz (thats 100mhz per screen - more than ample). Go for it.

Regards, son of bob.dent

**edited 14/9/06**

[tunnie]

The LG Flatron I am currently using has DVI...

...isn't the mini-Mac getting a little long in the tooth now...?

The LG on eBuyer does not do DVi...

Cheers for that Jimbob... thats a thought because the MiniMac's DVi output goes very high.

Jaime, the MiniMac just got the Intel chips, and for about £450 ish on my student discount i can get one with 1.83 Ghz Intel Core Duo, which should have some kick to it!

Built in bluetooth, wireless & a DVD burner. I need a Mac to compare compatibilty of my assigments for uni, i think the MiniMacs with their new Intel chips should be faily quick. Since is basically 3.8 Ghz and reviews of the chips seam good.

[TheBoy]

The LG Flatron I am currently using has DVI...

...isn't the mini-Mac getting a little long in the tooth now...?

The LG on eBuyer does not do DVi...

Cheers for that Jimbob... thats a thought because the MiniMac's DVi output goes very high.

Jaime, the MiniMac just got the Intel chips, and for about £450 ish on my student discount i can get one with 1.83 Ghz Intel Core Duo, which should have some kick to it!

Built in bluetooth, wireless & a DVD burner. I need a Mac to compare compatibilty of my assigments for uni, i think the MiniMacs with their new Intel chips should be faily quick. Since is basically 3.8 Ghz and reviews of the chips seam good.

My mistake, hadn't noticed they'd released Intel minimac yet. The old mini was getting, well, a bit old...

[tunnie]

The LG Flatron I am currently using has DVI...

...isn't the mini-Mac getting a little long in the tooth now...?

The LG on eBuyer does not do DVi...

Cheers for that Jimbob... thats a thought because the MiniMac's DVi output goes very high.

Jaime, the MiniMac just got the Intel chips, and for about £450 ish on my student discount i can get one with 1.83 Ghz Intel Core Duo, which should have some kick to it!

Built in bluetooth, wireless & a DVD burner. I need a Mac to compare compatibilty of my assigments for uni, i think the MiniMacs with their new Intel chips should be faily quick. Since is basically 3.8 Ghz and reviews of the chips seam good.

My mistake, hadn't noticed they'd released Intel minimac yet. The old mini was getting, well, a bit old...

Yeah we had PowerPC chipped MiniMacs at my old work, and they where slooooooow.

Bit disapointed the new MacMini, does not have the 2.0Ghz Core Duo, highest you can get is 1.83... but that still should be enough for me.

I keep changing my mind between the Mini Mac & Mac Book.

Mini Mac:

Good Points: - Cheap, bigger HD than MacBook, can be KVM'ed & i can get a new 19" TFT which i have been after for a while....
Bad Points: - Slow HD, not as quick as the macbook, not portable (in terms of taking it downstairs to do some quick work)

MacBook:

Good Points: - Highly portably, very light and small. Very sexy looking   , very fast.
Bad Points: - Expensive for what it is, only 2 USB ports, optional extra DVI connector required, small screen which could be difficult to look at for long periods. Would i really move around with it? I don't think so

I'd really like a new big 19" TFT for uni and I already have a PC and Laptop, so KVM would be good, as deskspace would be limited with a Macbook.....

I am swining more to the MiniMac at the moment, any thoughts anyone? - Does anyone here have a MiniMac with Intel chip?

[Martin_1962]

Mini Mac:

Good Points: - Cheap, bigger HD than MacBook, can be KVM'ed & i can get a new 19" TFT which i have been after for a while....
Bad Points: - Slow HD, not as quick as the macbook, not portable (in terms of taking it downstairs to do some quick work)

MacBook:

Good Points: - Highly portably, very light and small. Very sexy looking   , very fast.
Bad Points: - Expensive for what it is, only 2 USB ports, optional extra DVI connector required, small screen which could be difficult to look at for long periods. Would i really move around with it? I don't think so

I'd really like a new big 19" TFT for uni and I already have a PC and Laptop, so KVM would be good, as deskspace would be limited with a Macbook.....

I am swining more to the MiniMac at the moment, any thoughts anyone? - Does anyone here have a MiniMac with Intel chip?

Sounds like a burger chain computer - just got a P4 2.4 with 400GB of HDD here and 200GB of that is duff

[Jimbob]

Did you think about the software solution, with 1 host pc, the others as 'guests'  The one I use has versions that will run on most platforms?

[tunnie]

Did you think about the software solution, with 1 host pc, the others as 'guests'  The one I use has versions that will run on most platforms?

I did think about a software solution, but I don't have the power to really do what i need.

I really need to run OSX, on a fast solution. I tryed emulating it in Windows with PearPC, although that works its as slow as me in the morning!

Plus I have been after a TFT screen for ages, been using my dads 19" screen and its a real pleasure to use.

Although the software solution can be done, and like Jaime i have used VM Ware before, i find my laptop which is my most powerful PC just does not have the grunt needed.

I also tryed using remtote desktop and other tools like VNC, but at my Uni house it cripples the network for the other 3 guys.

[Jimbob]

Ok, I use one called NETOP, works very well, not much bandwidth needed, has clients for windows, dos, unix, mac, os/2 etc etc etc, ive tried loads, this is the best to me,  Works great for controlling my home pc from work , as well as 2nd pc from a 1st.  If you want to talk further about it, pm me.

Good luck

[Martin_1962]

We use Netsupport which is pretty good, I am getting good control speeds over ISDN to work as I am off ill but we have urgent work.

[TheBoy]

VMware is fast if you have the power to run it - our forums run on a Redhat EL4 VM which runs on a W2k3 server.

VMWare is virtualisation rather than emulation, hence its speed. Virtualisation is the way things are going, as anyone who works in major computer centres will confirm.

However, I think tunnie is after real hardware to run his Mac OS-X, so switch box problem remains. I don't think remote control type software is his answer either...

[tunnie]

As soon as I sell the project car and get some cash, I will get some bits.

Its increasingly looking like a Minimac, and look for a decent KVM to control it all.

Might look around for a docking station for my Sony Vaio laptop as well...

[TheBoy]

Might look around for a docking station for my Sony Vaio laptop as well...

I have a sledgehammer that will sort out the Sony crap...

[tunnie]

Might look around for a docking station for my Sony Vaio laptop as well...

I have a sledgehammer that will sort out the Sony crap...

 

Best thing about it is its screen Oxy Gel i think, 1400 by 1050  

[Martin_1962]

Might look around for a docking station for my Sony Vaio laptop as well...

I have a sledgehammer that will sort out the Sony crap...

Oh dear   can't let one product spoil a whole company - eg Corsas are not great and we buy these cars

[TheBoy]

Might look around for a docking station for my Sony Vaio laptop as well...

I have a sledgehammer that will sort out the Sony crap...

Oh dear   can't let one product spoil a whole company - eg Corsas are not great and we buy these cars

I had a few other Sony things (I used to be pro Sony) that are useless. Stereos with the usual laser becoming detached, not once, not twice, but 3 times. A sony alarm clock that lights up the room like its daylight. A sony vcr that used to have new heads every 3 - 4 months. The list goes on.

Needless to say, Sammy Sledgehammer has educated all but the TV and the surround amp (amp is rather good, shame the supplied Sony speakers are crap)

[Martin_1962]

I had a few other Sony things (I used to be pro Sony) that are useless. Stereos with the usual laser becoming detached, not once, not twice, but 3 times. A sony alarm clock that lights up the room like its daylight. A sony vcr that used to have new heads every 3 - 4 months. The list goes on.

Needless to say, Sammy Sledgehammer has educated all but the TV and the surround amp (amp is rather good, shame the supplied Sony speakers are crap)

Was the VCR DV, Hi8, Video 8 or Beta. Sony only relabeled Hitachi or Samsung for Vhs, my dad had a Vhs and it was crap, my Beta decks are fantastic and still work - one is 23 years old.

Were the HiFis cheap? If so fails my price rule

[TheBoy]

It was a VHS deck, as only a few years old.

The stereo was more expensive than the other similar brand name stuff...

[Martin_1962]

It was a VHS deck, as only a few years old.

The stereo was more expensive than the other similar brand name stuff...

Stereo - oh, how long did it last.

The Samsung vcr - not overly surprised.

[TheBoy]

initially 3 months, then repaired a second time under warranty (so within a year)

[Martin_1962]

Hmm for Vhs you need to look at products from JVC or Panasonic.

OK Recommended makers

DVD Recorders Panasonic, Pioneer, Sony NOT Phillips

DVD Players - expensive - you need a Toshiba HDDVD and a Pioneer BluRay or for SD an esoteric rebuild of a Pioneer.
Cheap - Pioneer
Super cheap - Tesco special

CRT TV - too late now but toss up between the TV prior to TDs and their last big IDTV

Plasmas as TVs Pioneer and Panasonic
Panels Fujitsu I think
LCD - race between a few big companies, Sony, Philips, Toshiba, Sharp and a few Koreans
Projectors - various makers, however when I said Sony and prices that make you wince  I think that is the best LCD projector.

Video Cameras - Sony

AV Recievers ect, Yamaha, Pioneer, Sony
Top end - Lexicon and similar

HiFi

Too many choices and personal taste come into it now, but a minimum system would be £100 per component. My front stereo pair were £450 in a sale.

Don't worry I have been into this sort of stuff for well over 20 years

[Martin_1962]

initially 3 months, then repaired a second time under warranty (so within a year)

I hope you don't think I'm being nosey, but how much and what facilities?

Is wasn't QS or ES range was it?

[TheBoy]

initially 3 months, then repaired a second time under warranty (so within a year)

I hope you don't think I'm being nosey, but how much and what facilities?

Is wasn't QS or ES range was it?

Can't remember model, as Sammy Sledge fixed it a couple of years back....

[Martin_1962]

initially 3 months, then repaired a second time under warranty (so within a year)

I hope you don't think I'm being nosey, but how much and what facilities?

Is wasn't QS or ES range was it?

Can't remember model, as Sammy Sledge fixed it a couple of years back....

Sorry I bet Bertie was jealous.

I've had a CD player go through two lasers on not much use - a Sharp I had for a XMAS/BD present.

I replaced with a DVD player.

I am a person who would never buy an all in one HiFI but buy components as before £100 per component average - there are some excellent cassette decks around the £90 mark as an example

QS BTW weigh a ton, ES I think is better, (or was it worse I CAN'T REMEMBER!)

[TheBoy]

I think Sony have gone so downhill in the last 5 or 6 years, and I've been bitten by them a number of times now.

No Sony stuff will ever be brought into my house again  

A mate just bought, against my advice, a Sony LCD only to find no PC input, which means no easy connection for MCE. Typical Sony, insisting on using HDMI (presumably to control content). Same as early Sony DVD players unable to read DVD-Rs...

[Martin_1962]

A mate just bought, against my advice, a Sony LCD only to find no PC input, which means no easy connection for MCE. Typical Sony, insisting on using HDMI (presumably to control content). Same as early Sony DVD players unable to read DVD-Rs...

DVI can be a PC input - but that is not too important - whatever I get I want multiple HDMI

As to DVD-R and Early Sony DVD players my player was a 1998 model bought cheap in 1999 DVD-R came out a couple of years later.

However it would play ones up to about 3.5GB then would stutter - but I have replaced it because it started to do this on normal DVDs.

2000 hours is normal laser life.

Denons are supposed to be pretty bad at DVD-R - the best are the PC drive based players.

I suppose I buy rarely but spend a lot is why I have had few problems with anything I've bought.

Only companies I will not touch are Amstrad (rubbish)

[TheBoy]

Wish I'd bought an Amstrad telly  

[Martin_1962]

Wish I'd bought an Amstrad telly  

You wouldn't - they are absolutely dire, made from cheapest parts and cheapest place.

Their music centres were advertised as having CD I heard one playing - sounded as good as AM radio.

I personally have managed to avoid through both skill and very good luck *BUYING* anything (except cars) that is actualy junk. The nearest is an Epson printer which burnt its heads out (replaced with a Canon with seperate tanks), and a Pace PVR which some people have had massive problems with - but I have avoided the hardware ones, and the software is now good.

I have been given things that have broken down.

I have a 23 Y/O, a 20 Y/O, and a 17Y/O video recorders

That said my first Omega was a total lemon!

[TheBoy]

they are absolutely dire, made from cheapest parts and cheapest place.

thought we were talking about sony for a mo....

[x25xe]

Wish I'd bought an Amstrad telly  

Their music centres were advertised as having CD I heard one playing - sounded as good as AM radio.

AM Radio - Great  

Since this thread has gone slightly AV thought I would add and ask at the same time!

I agree about VCRs.  Being into video editing, I also agree about the Sony video cameras.  I have 5 VCRs, three of which are Panasonic.  1 is the old "drawbridge" type an NV-F70, purchased seconhand, another is the HD100 and the third is a HS950 which is super VHS format.  All of these are editing decks and have been (are) great.  There is, though, one thing that lets them all down - they are VHS!!

I have the DCRVX2000E video camera and this is also great - picture quality is suberb, being a 3 chip camera.

Like you Martin, I go for HiFi Seperates rather than all in one.  Now you may frown on this, but I am currently after a CD multiplayer as my Technics has started to skip.  Do you have any recommendations?

[Martin_1962]

CD Multiplayer - hmm - how many discs?

How much do you want to pay?

Do you have a decent HiFi shop locally?

I reckon an around £200 or so for a semi decent one, I would recommend finding a few then looking for reviews.

If you have NG access, there are a few uk. hifi news groups.

You could also ask in avforums

VCRs

Well lets start - only one I have bought new

Sony SL-F1UB portable bought in 1985 second hand just after the end of GWR150 - if only I had it 3 months earlier. Also had HVC4000P camera.

This was machine of the year 1982!! (83 was C9 84 HF100)

Sony SLHF950 Super Beta HiFi - a fantastic VCR, bought new in 1989 for £800, I have NICAM converted it. Had one set of heads in 8 years ago at £180 or similar.

Sony SLHF100P Beta HiFi duplicator - bought as a bit knackered for £25 3 years ago - needs a service.

Sanyo VTC-M40 Beta HiFi - my dads old VCR - still works, use it for capturing. Been reheaded and redrivemotored not bad for 20 years old.

Two Vhs decks, I have Panasonic - electrically dead - worked for a while - from my dad - I used it as a duplicator. A Sony badged (off dad) keeps playing up it is horrible, and it wasn't much cheaper than what I paid for my genuine Sony which is so much better, lots of features but unreliable - been into repair twice.

I wore out the 950 heads using it as an editor and by playing back edit masters onto the Vhs deck.

NLE on PC is so much easier and duplicating is also easier - especially since I have bought a new burner.

[x25xe]

Thanks for your advice.

My Technics is a 5 disc which is fine.  I do not want one of those 100 juke box things. Other than these, I cannot find any multiplayers of note.  When What HiFi was a decent mag that would have been my first avenue of research.

Price range is between £200 - 400.  Although I currenty have a technics, I was going to use this as an opportunity to get something better.  I know that NAD and Karmon Kardon (possible spelling error there!) used to do them, but no longer.  I have heard that marantz also do them but would think twice about this due to the Phillips origins (I do not like Phillips).

There is no decent HiFi shop nearby.  I went to one in Watford (not too far away) and they were pretty much laughing, so I walked out!

Your VCR collection is impressive - I would, some day, like to acquire a Beta.  What is even more impressive is your NiCAM conversion!

Never really used my 950 for hard editing as about a year after I had it I moved into the Mini DV relm and with it into Adobe Premire.  Now I distribute on DVD which means I hardly ever (if at all) use the VCRs.

[Martin_1962]

Thanks for your advice.

My Technics is a 5 disc which is fine.  I do not want one of those 100 juke box things. Other than these, I cannot find any multiplayers of note.  When What HiFi was a decent mag that would have been my first avenue of research.

Price range is between £200 - 400.  Although I currenty have a technics, I was going to use this as an opportunity to get something better.  I know that NAD and Karmon Kardon (possible spelling error there!) used to do them, but no longer.  I have heard that marantz also do them but would think twice about this due to the Phillips origins (I do not like Phillips).

There is no decent HiFi shop nearby.  I went to one in Watford (not too far away) and they were pretty much laughing, so I walked out!

Your VCR collection is impressive - I would, some day, like to acquire a Beta.  What is even more impressive is your NiCAM conversion!

Never really used my 950 for hard editing as about a year after I had it I moved into the Mini DV relm and with it into Adobe Premire.  Now I distribute on DVD which means I hardly ever (if at all) use the VCRs.

When I did my heavy editing there was no such thing as MiniDV, as to Beta Ebay has them regularly - seen a 950 go for under £100 earlier this year - I was amazed as I have seen them hit £500, and an M40 hit £400.

Last VCR I used excepting my MiniDV was the F1 to recapture some 1986/7 stuff to try to do another DVD to sell.

I remember editing Beta and Video8 footage together for one day, unplug from F1 into Canon, remove from Canon into F1. The next time I touched that footage I borrowed a Hi8 editor and captured it rather editied on the 950