Omega Owners Forum

Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: tunnie on 12 September 2018, 10:51:41

Title: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: tunnie on 12 September 2018, 10:51:41
So, MrsT had to stop abruptly at a round about this morning, straight after this 'Service ESP' came up on the dash.

I'll pop the code reader in tonight, but googling other forums is a bit rubbish, no real detail on what the problem is.

Generally suggests ABS sensor, with mostly like cause washer broken.  :-\

This is about best thread I've found.

https://www.vauxhallownersnetwork.co.uk/index.php?threads/service-esp-issue-code-c0035.822181/ (https://www.vauxhallownersnetwork.co.uk/index.php?threads/service-esp-issue-code-c0035.822181/)

Anyone else seen this before?
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: tunnie on 12 September 2018, 12:07:21
Apparently it's fixed itself, wonder if this connector is a bit loose:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=42&v=26WPCv5aAu4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=42&v=26WPCv5aAu4)

Will investigate tonight.
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 12 September 2018, 12:09:48
Did you disturb it when you were doing the oil change?
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: tunnie on 12 September 2018, 12:19:43
Did you disturb it when you were doing the oil change?

Was in the area, but not directly near it. Had to take wheel off and drop service flap.
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 12 September 2018, 12:21:23
Read the codes before poking ;)
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: deviator on 12 September 2018, 12:49:29
Read the codes before poking ;)
Please say you are talking about the car.
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 12 September 2018, 12:54:08
Read the codes before poking ;)
Please say you are talking about the car.
Even a genuine Tech 2 couldn't fathom a woman ::)
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: tunnie on 12 September 2018, 13:12:44
Fault clear for one drive, returned again. So clearly intermittent
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: deviator on 12 September 2018, 13:27:11
Read the codes before poking ;)
Please say you are talking about the car.
Even a genuine Tech 2 couldn't fathom a woman ::)
I doubt a super computer could do it, so anything we could get ahold of would be insignificant.
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: Omegatoy on 12 September 2018, 17:14:28
generally the abs ring is dirty/rusty or swollen with rust underneth it and or cracked,
poss a sensor but it wouldnt clear itself
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: tunnie on 12 September 2018, 17:37:25
It’s 2014 plate, it’s generally rust free all over. Don’t ideally want to strip down to be Hub, hoping it’s a sensor.
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: andyc on 12 September 2018, 19:22:19
Those washer always break up and cause problems.
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: tunnie on 12 September 2018, 20:08:21
Looks like that could be the issue, had a frustrating evening investigating. Popped off both front wheels, inspected ABS wiring, all looks good, nice condition, no corrosion or kinks/breakers. Popped off the internal cover a bit and checked the connector inside engine area, as linked above, all good.

No fault codes stored, according to my code reader.  :(

(Autel 319)

Although live data all worked ok, but I could find nothing relating to ABS data.

So I've ordered the software that cannot be named here, to see if that gets me more data.

Also need to google how to change said washer.... @andyc - Is Insignia the same? As many more videos for that available.
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: tunnie on 12 September 2018, 20:09:33
Stops well enough and goes well enough, it's not in limp mode.
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: henryd on 12 September 2018, 20:14:23
I doubt that a modern vehicle will have abs rings,most are active sensor bearings nowadays,hopefully some live data will help. Generally  speaking if the light goes off at start up it means self test on sensors was good,if it comes on once underway it points to the bearing/abs ring or whatever its taking its readings from
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: tunnie on 12 September 2018, 20:17:53
I doubt that a modern vehicle will have abs rings,most are active sensor bearings nowadays,hopefully some live data will help. Generally  speaking if the light goes off at start up it means self test on sensors was good,if it comes on once underway it points to the bearing/abs ring or whatever its taking its readings from

It complains as soon as ignition is on, before engine running/wheels rolling.
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: tunnie on 12 September 2018, 20:19:06
Distinct lack of decent resources online, really puts me off older more modern cars.  :(

Software that cannot be named, should arrive Friday. If no joy with that, might have to go to the dealer.  :o  :(
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: tunnie on 12 September 2018, 20:30:31
Hope better software will give me fault, most common online aspect suggests sensor going to wheel hub.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DChcgNH6bq4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DChcgNH6bq4)

Same fault I have, but he can get a code, indicating which side is at fault.
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: henryd on 12 September 2018, 21:10:56
Hope better software will give me fault, most common online aspect suggests sensor going to wheel hub.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DChcgNH6bq4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DChcgNH6bq4)

Same fault I have, but he can get a code, indicating which side is at fault.

The fact that the light is on from start up does point to a sensor fault, what are you trying to rear codes with ?
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: tunnie on 12 September 2018, 21:13:20
Hope better software will give me fault, most common online aspect suggests sensor going to wheel hub.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DChcgNH6bq4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DChcgNH6bq4)

Same fault I have, but he can get a code, indicating which side is at fault.

The fact that the light is on from start up does point to a sensor fault, what are you trying to rear codes with ?

Tried my Autel 319, which has done 3.2 fine. It also reads live data from Zaf fine.

Also tried ScanMyOpel, via an Android phone and bluetooth adaptor.
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: henryd on 12 September 2018, 21:16:36
Hope better software will give me fault, most common online aspect suggests sensor going to wheel hub.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DChcgNH6bq4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DChcgNH6bq4)

Same fault I have, but he can get a code, indicating which side is at fault.

The fact that the light is on from start up does point to a sensor fault, what are you trying to rear codes with ?

Tried my Autel 319, which has done 3.2 fine. It also reads live data from Zaf fine.

Also tried ScanMyOpel, via an Android phone and bluetooth adaptor.

the 319 is generally eml only isn't it ?, the one you've ordered should crack it
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: STEMO on 12 September 2018, 21:20:35
Get one of these:

https://youtu.be/eKGUgkXt2os
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 12 September 2018, 21:33:10
Get one of these:

https://youtu.be/eKGUgkXt2os
Worked a treat on the BMW, and have their computer based gubbins for older Mercedes  :y

Expected that to be a link to a dealer servicing offer ::)
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: STEMO on 12 September 2018, 21:35:45
Get one of these:

https://youtu.be/eKGUgkXt2os
Worked a treat on the BMW, and have their computer based gubbins for older Mercedes  :y

Expected that to be a link to a dealer servicing offer ::)
You would  ::)
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: tunnie on 12 September 2018, 21:49:00
Get one of these:

https://youtu.be/eKGUgkXt2os

I have this:

https://youtu.be/e0uArph4nYY (https://youtu.be/e0uArph4nYY)

But will need to wait for the “other” software.
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: Andy B on 13 September 2018, 14:17:59
Get one of these:

https://youtu.be/eKGUgkXt2os
Worked a treat on the BMW, and have their computer based gubbins for older Mercedes  :y

Expected that to be a link to a dealer servicing offer ::)

That's what I use on my Merc & Smarts .... works well (though there is a MBII now which does a little more)
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 13 September 2018, 15:29:42
http://www.carsoft.com/carsoft-mercedes-v12-system.html

This, via a dedicated laptop  :y
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: TheBoy on 13 September 2018, 17:41:03
No fault codes stored, according to my code reader.  :(

(Autel 319)
Generic OBDII reader is only for drivetrain, nothing else
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: tunnie on 13 September 2018, 20:54:34
No fault codes stored, according to my code reader.  :(

(Autel 319)
Generic OBDII reader is only for drivetrain, nothing else

That explains it, software that cannot be named, should arrive tomorrow.  :)
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: tunnie on 14 September 2018, 21:53:31
Grrr. So the software that cannot be named can’t read ABS module either.  >:(

Guess I need to splash some cash and get serious code reader like this:

http://www.diagnostic-world.com/pages/iCarsoft_OP_II_Vauxhall_Opel_Oil_Service_Reset_Multi_System_Diagnostic_Tool__212698-z=656151&p=111378.cfm (http://www.diagnostic-world.com/pages/iCarsoft_OP_II_Vauxhall_Opel_Oil_Service_Reset_Multi_System_Diagnostic_Tool__212698-z=656151&p=111378.cfm)
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 15 September 2018, 00:13:30
Grrr. So the software that cannot be named can’t read ABS module either.  >:(

Guess I need to splash some cash and get serious code reader like this:

http://www.diagnostic-world.com/pages/iCarsoft_OP_II_Vauxhall_Opel_Oil_Service_Reset_Multi_System_Diagnostic_Tool__212698-z=656151&p=111378.cfm (http://www.diagnostic-world.com/pages/iCarsoft_OP_II_Vauxhall_Opel_Oil_Service_Reset_Multi_System_Diagnostic_Tool__212698-z=656151&p=111378.cfm)
Be a lesson there somewhere ::)

But, yes, you should buy that ;)
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 15 September 2018, 09:19:05
Or buy a code reader that can read all codes on all cars.  :y

I have one of these (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Launch-Creader-Transmission-Service-Function/dp/B01M9AXSMK/ref=pd_lpo_vtph_263_lp_t_2/257-9014665-0778824?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=G78NHG0YSGAMGQ05QRJN) bought secondhand on ebay for £60 and it clearly was hardly used.  :y
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: TheBoy on 15 September 2018, 10:20:37
Or buy a code reader that can read all codes on all cars.  :y

I have one of these (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Launch-Creader-Transmission-Service-Function/dp/B01M9AXSMK/ref=pd_lpo_vtph_263_lp_t_2/257-9014665-0778824?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=G78NHG0YSGAMGQ05QRJN) bought secondhand on ebay for £60 and it clearly was hardly used.  :y
Trouble with generics that claim "can do xyz" is that they can usually only do it on a subset of vehicles they list once you get beyond drivetrain.  Some are better than others.  I suspect tunnie needs a recommendation for something that has been tested against a Zaf-C ABS unit....


...or bung a local garage a £20 note, no receipt, for a read.
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: tunnie on 15 September 2018, 10:38:34
Today I’ll order one I linked to, garages around here want £70 just for a diag. So money well spent, plus Insignia is strong contender for 3.2 replacement.

As even if I get a diag done here, would need another one to clear coders after I’ve changed the sensor.
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: TheBoy on 15 September 2018, 11:00:28
garages around here want £70 just for a diag
You need to learn how to drop a bung.  Can't do that surfing the net ;)
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: tunnie on 15 September 2018, 12:11:34
garages around here want £70 just for a diag
You need to learn how to drop a bung.  Can't do that surfing the net ;)

I called. Local indies, multiple ones. Cheapest £69.
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: tunnie on 15 September 2018, 12:17:49
Grrr. So the software that cannot be named can’t read ABS module either.  >:(

Guess I need to splash some cash and get serious code reader like this:

http://www.diagnostic-world.com/pages/iCarsoft_OP_II_Vauxhall_Opel_Oil_Service_Reset_Multi_System_Diagnostic_Tool__212698-z=656151&p=111378.cfm (http://www.diagnostic-world.com/pages/iCarsoft_OP_II_Vauxhall_Opel_Oil_Service_Reset_Multi_System_Diagnostic_Tool__212698-z=656151&p=111378.cfm)

Ordered. Should pay for itself quickly I think.
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: tunnie on 20 September 2018, 20:50:46
So, the saga continues.  :(

Code reader received and updated, once i tracked down a windows laptop capable. I can read all modules correctly and see live data. This is the issue:

ESP on the dash, car runs and drives fine, not in limp mode all instruments working.

(http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii177/tunnie_84/ZafiraTourer/Image%20from%20iOS%209.jpg)

Looking in ECBM which I understand is where ABS module is....

(http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii177/tunnie_84/ZafiraTourer/Image%20from%20iOS%207.jpg)

There are no codes.  :(  :-\

(http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii177/tunnie_84/ZafiraTourer/Image%20from%20iOS%205.jpg)

But if I clear the ECBM

(http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii177/tunnie_84/ZafiraTourer/Image%20from%20iOS%204_1.jpg)

(http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii177/tunnie_84/ZafiraTourer/Image%20from%20iOS%202.jpg)

The ABS/Traction lights go out and all is well, until you drive for 15 seconds and its back on.  >:(

In Live data, I can see kph of sensors if I roll forwards back, both sides, so the sensors appear fine. I did see this about ABS Pump motor at 0v, so I checked fuse in engine bay, all good.  :-\

(http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii177/tunnie_84/ZafiraTourer/Image%20from%20iOS%203.jpg)

So I'm at a bit of a loss to the cause, and may have to go to the dealer.  :(  :-\
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 20 September 2018, 21:10:31
ABS ECU.  Do you get any 'feedback' through the brake pedal when the light comes back on?
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 20 September 2018, 21:21:42
Try chassis control module ::)
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: tunnie on 20 September 2018, 21:43:51
ABS ECU.  Do you get any 'feedback' through the brake pedal when the light comes back on?

No feedback through pedal when light comes on, braking behaves normally.

Try chassis control module ::)

Nothing brake related in there, no codes, no live data relating to braking.

All ABS sensor info is in Electronic Brake Control module, along with ABS pump voltage.
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 20 September 2018, 22:01:27
The issue isn't necessarily in that module.

Did you reset all the service memories when you changed the oil?
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: tunnie on 20 September 2018, 22:02:20
Just the oil life, via the dash controls.
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: STEMO on 20 September 2018, 22:20:11
Just the oil life, via the dash controls.
The garage didn't reset mine after the oil change, so I did it via the menu on the dash. No problems so I can't see you've done anything that would bring a code up.
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: tunnie on 20 September 2018, 22:25:15
Just the oil life, via the dash controls.
The garage didn't reset mine after the oil change, so I did it via the menu on the dash. No problems so I can't see you've done anything that would bring a code up.

Same. Just standard oil reset.

Fact I reset codes for brake module turns light off, suggests fault here.

Also came on couple weeks and few hundred miles after Service.

Shall be admitting defeat and booking it into dealer tomorrow.  :(
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: STEMO on 20 September 2018, 22:26:36
Just the oil life, via the dash controls.
The garage didn't reset mine after the oil change, so I did it via the menu on the dash. No problems so I can't see you've done anything that would bring a code up.

Same. Just standard oil reset.

Fact I reset codes for brake module turns light off, suggests fault here.

Also came on couple weeks and few hundred miles after Service.

Shall be admitting defeat and booking it into dealer tomorrow.  :(
If nowt else, you're building up a nice lot of code readers.  ;D
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: tunnie on 20 September 2018, 22:43:56
Have nice little collection  ;D
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: tunnie on 21 September 2018, 09:22:11
So booked into Eden Vauxhall for Monday, looks like I did not save that diagnostic fee after all.  :'(
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 21 September 2018, 10:58:04
So booked into Eden Vauxhall for Monday, looks like I did not save that diagnostic fee after all.  :'(

Will they know their arse from their elbow...... ::)
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: aaronjb on 21 September 2018, 11:04:47
So booked into Eden Vauxhall for Monday, looks like I did not save that diagnostic fee after all.  :'(

Will they know their arse from their elbow...... ::)

/me has flashback to Lizzie's wishbone thread
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: tunnie on 21 September 2018, 13:39:49
I've troubleshooted it as far as I can go, so have no other option.  :(
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 21 September 2018, 13:41:17
Pedal trick?
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: dave the builder on 21 September 2018, 15:19:46
I assume the dealer will replace various modules and looms etc over several visits and have your pants down ,
Sorry for your loss  :'(
(of time and money )
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: Viral_Jim on 21 September 2018, 15:39:39
As its showing 0v @ the ABS pump, did you pull the multiplug on and see if its getting voltage in, using multimeter? if its getting power, then surely the pump is Donald? If not then can you not chase the wiring back?

As the light's coming on immediately, probably means its not "seeing" a component, rather than that component failing a test of some kind.

Also, have you replaced any relevant fuses (as opposed to just checking them)? I've had a fuse go on the ovlov recently that visually seemed fine, but didn't function.
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: tunnie on 21 September 2018, 15:42:21
Thanks.

I've just checked the ABS fuse, looked fully intact not even any brown marks to suggest a burn or anything.

Lack of technical info on the Zaf, no idea where the pump even is... let along where looms/plugs run to. I would not be surprised if it's the pump, seen a few go on Insignia forums.  :-\
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: dave the builder on 21 September 2018, 16:25:35
is it fitted with a shed dragging hook on the back ?
i had abs problems due to one (not zafira)
very sensitive system , even a blown brake lamp/bulb or dash indicator lamp can throw a spanner in the works
abs pump will be attached to brake lines ,follow them from reservoir
abs pump would have relays and runs when engine is running, constantly   
does esp module get data from steering angle sensor ?
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: tunnie on 21 September 2018, 16:47:16
No burger van towing hook, all other lights working correctly.

Braking works as per normal, so guessing pump is working correctly.  :-\
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: dave the builder on 21 September 2018, 16:56:32
No burger van towing hook, all other lights working correctly.

Braking works as per normal, so guessing pump is working correctly.  :-\
have you tested the abs though ? as in braked hard to check it modulates ,wheels don't lock  :-\
the brakes still work,even with a duff pump
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: Entwood on 21 September 2018, 17:10:19
You keep saying you've checked the fuse by looking at ...  since when have your eyes been electrically continuous ???  Put a meter on the fuse and check for continuity .. it is the ONLY way to correctly check a fuse ... how do you know the visible bit has not broken off one of the legs in the corner ???

 :o :o

Might not be that, but for the sake of doing a job PROPERLY... it would rule it out once and for all ...  I can see you being very pissed off if a new fuse were to fix the problem ..... :)
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: tunnie on 21 September 2018, 17:49:48
The fuse is completely transparent, it’s not like normal ones in Omega internal box.

Half the size, plastic all clear. I’ll pop meter on it tonight to be sure.
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: dave the builder on 21 September 2018, 18:18:24
you did have the engine running when you read the module ?  :-\
or the abs pump would read 0 volts  ;D
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 21 September 2018, 20:19:18
you did have the engine running when you read the module ?  :-\
or the abs pump would read 0 volts  ;D
Good point, well presented.

Also have you tried the pedal trick?

Also, if you can't find the abs block, you aren't looking.

Follow the brake lines from the servo and report back  :y
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: tunnie on 21 September 2018, 20:48:25
Engine running and taken for a drive, while live data running. Still 0 volts displayed, at all times.

No pedal trick, besides don't see how that can give anything above what code reader I have.

Still think it is the ABS pump, as it never says any positive volts, speed sensor data, everything else looks good.

You keep saying you've checked the fuse by looking at ...  since when have your eyes been electrically continuous ???  Put a meter on the fuse and check for continuity .. it is the ONLY way to correctly check a fuse ... how do you know the visible bit has not broken off one of the legs in the corner ???

 :o :o

Might not be that, but for the sake of doing a job PROPERLY... it would rule it out once and for all ...  I can see you being very pissed off if a new fuse were to fix the problem ..... :)

Tested with MultiMeter, all good for ABS fuses.  :y
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: Viral_Jim on 21 September 2018, 21:25:33
I agree. I'd be pointing at the abs pump/controller unit. 2nd hand one an option?

Shouldn't be hard to change.
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: tunnie on 21 September 2018, 21:27:57
Live data tests, key 0v here I think  :-\

(http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii177/tunnie_84/ZafiraTourer/Image%20from%20iOS%2010.jpg)

Everything else checks out ok.

(http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii177/tunnie_84/ZafiraTourer/Image%20from%20iOS%2011.jpg)

Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: tunnie on 21 September 2018, 21:31:55
(http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii177/tunnie_84/ZafiraTourer/Data.jpg)
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: tunnie on 21 September 2018, 21:40:29
ABS Module looks mega expensive to replace, DIY videos for ZafB look scary and not something I would want to do myself.
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: Viral_Jim on 21 September 2018, 21:53:47
Sad Panda!

Any recon options?
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 21 September 2018, 21:58:50
ABS Module looks mega expensive to replace, DIY videos for ZafB look scary and not something I would want to do myself.

Send it off for test and repair.  :y  If possible.  :-\
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: Entwood on 21 September 2018, 22:02:38
ECU testing seem to be able to repair them ..... worth a phone call ?? 

http://www.ecutesting.com/catalogue/vauxhall_eculist.html?category=4047&model=480
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: tunnie on 21 September 2018, 22:05:55
Thanks both  :y

ECU testing seem to be able to repair them ..... worth a phone call ?? 

http://www.ecutesting.com/catalogue/vauxhall_eculist.html?category=4047&model=480

Yeah will need to call them, as they don't list anything 2013 or newer.

Would like to get dealer to confirm my diagnosis though, perhaps visit Serek for this job.  If I could source another unit, to fit and replace at the same time.
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: STEMO on 21 September 2018, 22:24:46
I read the ecutesting webpage earlier today. They seem to be saying that it's a common fault due to a sensor that was external being placed internally on later units. Therefore, if the unit is replaced like for like, the fault will reoccur.
I don't buy it. I've heard nothing about it being a common fault.
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: tunnie on 21 September 2018, 22:28:16
I read the ecutesting webpage earlier today. They seem to be saying that it's a common fault due to a sensor that was external being placed internally on later units. Therefore, if the unit is replaced like for like, the fault will reoccur.
I don't buy it. I've heard nothing about it being a common fault.

I can find very little online about it, does not appear that common post Zaf-B, some say about rev counter failing (like Omega ABS pump issues) vibration/loss of power, (again Zaf-B) but everything on mine works fine.

More confusing is still lack of fault codes anywhere.  :-\
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: STEMO on 21 September 2018, 22:34:07
Mine's the same setup so, of course, I'll be interested in the outcome.
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: STEMO on 21 September 2018, 22:39:24
No reports of that fault here:

https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/vauxhall/astra-j-2009/good/
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: tunnie on 21 September 2018, 22:42:42
No reports of that fault here:

https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/vauxhall/astra-j-2009/good/

Nothing here for ESP, other than no button, which is odd as there is a TC button.

https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/vauxhall/zafira-c-2012/good/ (https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/vauxhall/zafira-c-2012/good/)
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 21 September 2018, 22:53:04

More confusing is still lack of fault codes anywhere.  :-\

I think this is fairly common with ABS module faults?  :-\

The Omega dosnt  show a fault code, but we all know what's wrong because the speedo fails.  ;) 

When the ABS light came on last year on my BMW, the fault code showed the nearside sensor was faulty. I wasted a lot of time, energy and money trying different sensors, switching them over etc, and I changed the wheel bearing with the reluctor ring.  ::)  I even got Kevin Wood involved who got his oscilloscope out!  :o but couldn't get a result!  :-X  ;D

Eventually I sent off the ABS module to BBA Reman who confirmed it was totally goosed and unrepairable!  :(
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: tunnie on 21 September 2018, 22:56:07
Least you had some codes, but looks like ABS unit could be sent off/replaced.
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: Entwood on 21 September 2018, 23:03:35
No reports of that fault here:

https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/vauxhall/astra-j-2009/good/

Nothing here for ESP, other than no button, which is odd as there is a TC button.

https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/vauxhall/zafira-c-2012/good/ (https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/vauxhall/zafira-c-2012/good/)

Interestingly, numerous "odd" electrical failures are listed .. for both the Zafira and the Astra ....
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 21 September 2018, 23:05:02
Least you had some codes, but looks like ABS unit could be sent off/replaced.

Yes but it sent me off on a wild goose chase!  :(

I'd be inclined (if possible) to take the ABS module off, leaving the pump in situ. It might be easy like my Beemer or a bitch like the Omega.  :-\ Then send it off for test and hopefully repair.  ;)

But as you have it booked in at Vauxhall, you may as well follow through with that now.  :y

Although you have the weekend to look at it and scratch your head!  ;D
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 22 September 2018, 00:03:52
Looks easy enough!  ::)  ;D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gjS3AxWC48
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 22 September 2018, 03:54:43

More confusing is still lack of fault codes anywhere.  :-\

I think this is fairly common with ABS module faults?  :-\

The Omega dosnt  show a fault code, but we all know what's wrong because the speedo fails.  ;) 

When the ABS light came on last year on my BMW, the fault code showed the nearside sensor was faulty. I wasted a lot of time, energy and money trying different sensors, switching them over etc, and I changed the wheel bearing with the reluctor ring.  ::)  I even got Kevin Wood involved who got his oscilloscope out!  :o but couldn't get a result!  :-X  ;D

Eventually I sent off the ABS module to BBA Reman who confirmed it was totally goosed and unrepairable!  :(
off side rear for mine... Ultimately sold/exported for bits because I got pissed off with it having changed the sensor twice.

When you say 'no pedal trick'...

Have you actually tried?
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: tunnie on 22 September 2018, 08:23:59
Least you had some codes, but looks like ABS unit could be sent off/replaced.

Yes but it sent me off on a wild goose chase!  :(

I'd be inclined (if possible) to take the ABS module off, leaving the pump in situ. It might be easy like my Beemer or a bitch like the Omega.  :-\ Then send it off for test and hopefully repair.  ;)

But as you have it booked in at Vauxhall, you may as well follow through with that now.  :y

Although you have the weekend to look at it and scratch your head!  ;D

It looks a right pain to remove, I’m hoping dealer confirms it is ABS pump. Then either use local garage to remove old one and I/they send it off to be reconditioned and refitted.

Or I source another and take it to Serek’s for replace and fit in one go
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: tunnie on 22 September 2018, 08:31:26

More confusing is still lack of fault codes anywhere.  :-\

I think this is fairly common with ABS module faults?  :-\

The Omega dosnt  show a fault code, but we all know what's wrong because the speedo fails.  ;) 

When the ABS light came on last year on my BMW, the fault code showed the nearside sensor was faulty. I wasted a lot of time, energy and money trying different sensors, switching them over etc, and I changed the wheel bearing with the reluctor ring.  ::)  I even got Kevin Wood involved who got his oscilloscope out!  :o but couldn't get a result!  :-X  ;D

Eventually I sent off the ABS module to BBA Reman who confirmed it was totally goosed and unrepairable!  :(
off side rear for mine... Ultimately sold/exported for bits because I got pissed off with it having changed the sensor twice.

When you say 'no pedal trick'...

Have you actually tried?

Yes, either no worky or no codes. Given all code readers say no codes either, think it’s the latter.
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: TheBoy on 22 September 2018, 08:45:07
The way CAN works is you want to check all ECUs on the same bus.  So go round all of them.
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: TheBoy on 22 September 2018, 08:45:44
Plus, as its ESP, check things like steering angle live data is plausible.
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: tunnie on 22 September 2018, 09:05:50
Plus, as its ESP, check things like steering angle live data is plausible.

Yes read that in some posts, it comes back with changing live data:

(http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii177/tunnie_84/ZafiraTourer/Image%20from%20iOS%2010.jpg)

When you say same bus, what exactly do you mean? Scanned all these, under 2.0 no faults stored.


(http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii177/tunnie_84/ZafiraTourer/Image%20from%20iOS%207.jpg)
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: tunnie on 22 September 2018, 09:13:14
Hummm. Although, scanning through my photos I took of fault scanning.

In two separate scans the wheel position is -1.08 deg, either I parked it exactly same way or that value did not change. Will double check this shortly.
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: tunnie on 22 September 2018, 09:32:58
Scratch that, just tested and it’s giving various figures positive and negative. Eg bit of left hand wheel and it’s at 145.46 deg.
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: tunnie on 22 September 2018, 09:48:50
Breakthrough

Found inside the "Power Steering Control Module" a bunch of codes, thanks to TB for suggesting all modules, I cleared them and ABS EBCM error to clear dash error. Went for a drive, ESP came back on and went back to power steering module, had this code:

U0415: Invalid Data Received from Electronic Brake Control Module.

Off to Google....

EBCM itself had no codes...
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: tunnie on 22 September 2018, 09:51:21
Breakthrough

Found inside the "Power Steering Control Module" a bunch of codes, thanks to TB for suggesting all modules, I cleared them and ABS EBCM error to clear dash error. Went for a drive, ESP came back on and went back to power steering module, had this code:

U0415: Invalid Data Received from Electronic Brake Control Module.

Off to Google....

EBCM itself had no codes...


2 mins Google and I think it still suggests ABS pump  :(

Good in a way I guess.

https://www.troublecodes.net/ucodes/u0415/ (https://www.troublecodes.net/ucodes/u0415/)

Probable Cause: Wiring, Wheel speed sensors, Defective ABS control module, Defective ABS pump, PCM.
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: tunnie on 22 September 2018, 09:59:30
other codes, before I cleared them:

U0140 - Lost communication with Body Control Module.
U0121 - Lost communication with Electronic Brake Control Module
U0100 - Lost communication with Engine Control Module
U0415 - Invalid data received from Electronic Brake Control Module
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: STEMO on 22 September 2018, 11:27:30
I read something about this yesterday and I'm buggered if I can find it again. Turned out to be chafed wiring under the battery tray.
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: tunnie on 22 September 2018, 12:40:42
I read something about this yesterday and I'm buggered if I can find it again. Turned out to be chafed wiring under the battery tray.

Searching myself for this, can't find anything.
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: TheBoy on 22 September 2018, 19:05:52
other codes, before I cleared them:

U0140 - Lost communication with Body Control Module.
U0121 - Lost communication with Electronic Brake Control Module
U0100 - Lost communication with Engine Control Module
U0415 - Invalid data received from Electronic Brake Control Module
In steering ECU?

Looks like a CAN issue, and be checking the wiring between all these ECUs.
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: tunnie on 22 September 2018, 20:50:12
other codes, before I cleared them:

U0140 - Lost communication with Body Control Module.
U0121 - Lost communication with Electronic Brake Control Module
U0100 - Lost communication with Engine Control Module
U0415 - Invalid data received from Electronic Brake Control Module
In steering ECU?

Looks like a CAN issue, and be checking the wiring between all these ECUs.

In power steering, yes. But after clearing and then driving only 415 returned.
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: TheBoy on 23 September 2018, 10:20:56
Before condemming any component, just check wiring integrity between them.  Also, be aware, with CANBUS, there may not be a direct cable between those, and it might pass through other ECUs on the way, any of which could potentially upset the signal (though unlikely, unless they are in some poorly tested error routine themselves).

Of all the many advantages of CAN, this is the biggest downside.


Hence, the suggestion to go through everything on the same CANBUS (no idea how many the Astra-J/Zaf-C have, previous models had 3 - high speed, medium speed and slow speed).  I would imagine ABS would be on high or med speed, but you need to check.
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: tunnie on 23 September 2018, 13:25:50
So technical knowledge on the Zaf-C is thin on the ground, this thread is better than Zaf forums. So no idea which CANBUS would be which in terms of speed, but....

Yesterday I went through every single module I could under "Zafira-C" - From the park distance module, to radio, transmission, everything. Only area which had codes were power steering module, listed the above.
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: TheBoy on 23 September 2018, 13:41:21
Your reader might not do all ECUs.  So get a set of schematics from somewhere, and pour over them.  Pretty certain you can get a day subscription to GM's EU TIS, because we can't recommend dodgy copies of the software here, can we.


That said, does sound likely its the ABS causing a problem.  But if the ABS/ESP is working, I would defo be checking the connectors etc before condemming anything.
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: tunnie on 23 September 2018, 13:43:14
Your reader might not do all ECUs.  So get a set of schematics from somewhere, and pour over them.  Pretty certain you can get a day subscription to GM's EU TIS, because we can't recommend dodgy copies of the software here, can we.


That said, does sound likely its the ABS causing a problem.  But if the ABS/ESP is working, I would defo be checking the connectors etc before condemming anything.

It's not, another weekend test was taking it on the by-pass.

I stamped on the brakes at 70mph, easily locked up the fronts, with no pedal feedback.
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: tunnie on 23 September 2018, 13:45:53
Also fact live data still says 0v to the motor pump as well.  :-\
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: TheBoy on 23 September 2018, 13:47:40
OK, still check the connectors though.  It probably wont take long, and if its a free fix, you'll be pleased.  But sounds like you'll be swapping the part out.

Check if part replacement needs programming in, or if its simply plug and pray.  If it does need programming in, those repair services look a lot more appealing ;)
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: dave the builder on 23 September 2018, 13:48:17
Your reader might not do all ECUs.  So get a set of schematics from somewhere, and pour over them.  Pretty certain you can get a day subscription to GM's EU TIS, because we can't recommend dodgy copies of the software here, can we.


That said, does sound likely its the ABS causing a problem.  But if the ABS/ESP is working, I would defo be checking the connectors etc before condemming anything.

It's not, another weekend test was taking it on the by-pass.

I stamped on the brakes at 70mph, easily locked up the fronts, with no pedal feedback.
so 0 volts ,abs pump not working
did you find the abs relay , mentioned many posts ago
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: TheBoy on 23 September 2018, 13:48:35
Also fact live data still says 0v to the motor pump as well.  :-\
What does it say on a working one?  Is that the return pump? If so, that would only be activated under antilock conditions.
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: tunnie on 23 September 2018, 13:50:16
Your reader might not do all ECUs.  So get a set of schematics from somewhere, and pour over them.  Pretty certain you can get a day subscription to GM's EU TIS, because we can't recommend dodgy copies of the software here, can we.


That said, does sound likely its the ABS causing a problem.  But if the ABS/ESP is working, I would defo be checking the connectors etc before condemming anything.

It's not, another weekend test was taking it on the by-pass.

I stamped on the brakes at 70mph, easily locked up the fronts, with no pedal feedback.
so 0 volts ,abs pump not working
did you find the abs relay , mentioned many posts ago

Yes, the large 60amp one in the engine bay, there was another fuse as well 25amp Micro2 fuse in the engine bay too.

The larger one had a cover to remove on top, so you could visually inspect as well.

Both tested with a multi-meter, both had number "close to one" as per research suggested it should.
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: tunnie on 23 September 2018, 13:50:54
Also fact live data still says 0v to the motor pump as well.  :-\
What does it say on a working one?  Is that the return pump? If so, that would only be activated under antilock conditions.

Oh.

I can't test a working one, unless you mean try the Omega?
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: tunnie on 23 September 2018, 13:51:57
Your reader might not do all ECUs.  So get a set of schematics from somewhere, and pour over them.  Pretty certain you can get a day subscription to GM's EU TIS, because we can't recommend dodgy copies of the software here, can we.


That said, does sound likely its the ABS causing a problem.  But if the ABS/ESP is working, I would defo be checking the connectors etc before condemming anything.

It's not, another weekend test was taking it on the by-pass.

I stamped on the brakes at 70mph, easily locked up the fronts, with no pedal feedback.
so 0 volts ,abs pump not working
did you find the abs relay , mentioned many posts ago

Yes, the large 60amp one in the engine bay, there was another fuse as well 25amp Micro2 fuse in the engine bay too.

The larger one had a cover to remove on top, so you could visually inspect as well.

Both tested with a multi-meter, both had number "close to one" as per research suggested it should.

Also to add, it's a new multimeter, not old POS one I had before.
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: dave the builder on 23 September 2018, 13:53:35
relay , not fuse  ;)
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: TheBoy on 23 September 2018, 13:55:14
Also fact live data still says 0v to the motor pump as well.  :-\
What does it say on a working one?  Is that the return pump? If so, that would only be activated under antilock conditions.

Oh.

I can't test a working one, unless you mean try the Omega?
I don't know what live data your reader provides, hence I was asking/suggesting if its the return pump, I suspect it would read 0 under normal conditions.


It is a different unit to the Omega ones, so the comparison is meaningless.
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: tunnie on 23 September 2018, 14:04:43
It allows me to pick a bunch of data, as seen in photos. So reasonable enough, speed sensor etc, must be about 25 values of live data ABS system.

Hummmm relay, book tells me about fuses, but not relays. As always with this car, technical data is low online.  :(

Presume it would be a relay in the engine bay fuse box?
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: tunnie on 23 September 2018, 14:07:26
Forums are full of ZafB owners with same lights on and me and it's all down to ABS control module, sod all on ZafC but perhaps they are only just starting to age now.
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: tunnie on 23 September 2018, 14:27:05
So I can't find overview on ZafC, but found one for ZafB

https://fusesdiagram.com/opel-vauxhall/fuses-and-relay-opel-vauxhall-zafira-b.html (https://fusesdiagram.com/opel-vauxhall/fuses-and-relay-opel-vauxhall-zafira-b.html)

There are no ABS relays, only fuses.
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: tunnie on 24 September 2018, 20:39:13
So, it’s all fixed. Turns out it was a washer inside the wheel hub, which had failed. I had seen it as a possible cause, but I could not get any codes to suggest this.

I’m £150 lighter as a result, but happy it’s all resolved.
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 24 September 2018, 21:32:29
Good news and better than a failed ABS module!  :y
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: STEMO on 24 September 2018, 22:15:53
People are very quick to condemn the dealers. Diagnosed and fixed in a day, at a reasonable price.
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: tunnie on 24 September 2018, 22:18:08
Yeah. for a main dealer it’s quite reasonable
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: Viral_Jim on 24 September 2018, 22:35:53
Glad it was a cheap fix (although many on here would malign £150).   :y
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: pscocoa on 25 September 2018, 16:40:55
So, it’s all fixed. Turns out it was a washer inside the wheel hub, which had failed. I had seen it as a possible cause, but I could not get any codes to suggest this.

I’m £150 lighter as a result, but happy it’s all resolved.

Was that Eden Camberley??
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: TheBoy on 25 September 2018, 18:05:34
Goes to show how good that shitty diags kit is ;)
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: tunnie on 25 September 2018, 20:07:23
Goes to show how good that shitty diags kit is ;)

£150 kit stuff  :(
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: tunnie on 25 September 2018, 20:07:46
So, it’s all fixed. Turns out it was a washer inside the wheel hub, which had failed. I had seen it as a possible cause, but I could not get any codes to suggest this.

I’m £150 lighter as a result, but happy it’s all resolved.

Was that Eden Camberley??

Yes  :y
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: pscocoa on 25 September 2018, 20:28:56
So, it’s all fixed. Turns out it was a washer inside the wheel hub, which had failed. I had seen it as a possible cause, but I could not get any codes to suggest this.

I’m £150 lighter as a result, but happy it’s all resolved.

Was that Eden Camberley??

Yes  :y

They have been pretty good over the years on the Astra and Insignia.
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: tunnie on 25 September 2018, 20:44:01
So, it’s all fixed. Turns out it was a washer inside the wheel hub, which had failed. I had seen it as a possible cause, but I could not get any codes to suggest this.

I’m £150 lighter as a result, but happy it’s all resolved.

Was that Eden Camberley??

Yes  :y

They have been pretty good over the years on the Astra and Insignia.

Yeah so far in my dealings they have been good, I popped in once for an O-ring. Mechanic came out with a box of ransoms, compared mine and chose right one. No charge.

MOT cost same as local independent, but they also give it a proper wash and health check.

I’m definitely considering an Insignia as 3.2 replacement, even more so now this issue was resolved quite well.
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: pscocoa on 25 September 2018, 20:56:59
What age and mileage are you looking for??
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: STEMO on 25 September 2018, 20:57:18
He held you to ransom over an 'O' ring? That's not good.
Title: Re: Zafira Tourer - Service ESP
Post by: tunnie on 25 September 2018, 20:59:36
What age and mileage are you looking for??

Well, it will be when my 3.2 rusts out to be honest. Once that front chassis section goes, I’ll be hunting for one.

But I would have to be Elite spec, with HIDs for starters.  :)