Topic: Want to chiptune a omega 2.5 V6 (Read 3991 times)

Java · « **on:** 10 October 2010, 22:56:46 »

Hello, I'm new here do maybe this is a stupid question but I was wondering if any one could tell me how to proceed in order to chiptune a omega. Do you modify the current chip in the car or you replace it with a modified one?

What I think I've realized is that I need a special set of tools to connect the car computer with a computer and also a special mapping program. I assume that the chipset used in omega is defined somewhere which maybe would help me finding out what tools and program I am in need of.

Kevin Wood · « **Reply #1 on:** 10 October 2010, 23:44:05 »

The 2.5 has a ROM based ECU so you have the physically change the chip.

Later cars (2.6 / 3.2) have a flash based ECU which can be reprogrammed in-situ but I'm not aware of any tuning products for this ECU.

Kevin

Java · « **Reply #2 on:** 11 October 2010, 06:04:33 »

Ok, I understand. You don't by any chance know were I could purchase such chips then? I'm only looking for ecochip then, no need for trimchip when you drive a caravan

But it is possible to make own chips I figure but that must be to hard without the right tools, right?

henryd · « **Reply #3 on:** 11 October 2010, 09:53:03 »

the easiest way to increase power on a 2.5 v6 is to fit the 3.0 camshafts,not sure what effect this has on economy though

Kevin Wood · « **Reply #4 on:** 11 October 2010, 09:53:53 »

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Ok, I understand. You don't by any chance know were I could purchase such chips then? I'm only looking for ecochip then, no need for trimchip when you drive a caravan

I have no personal experience but I'm sure plenty on here can advise.

By far the best upgrade for a 2.5 is to fit the cams from a 3 litre engine.

Quote

But it is possible to make own chips I figure but that must be to hard without the right tools, right?

Yes, in theory. It's only an EPROM so easily programmed. The difficult bit would be reverse-engineering the code to find out where the maps are stored and in what format!

Kevin

zirk · « **Reply #5 on:** 11 October 2010, 12:33:13 »

As said before its an Eprom, so best you could do is to pull the Eprom and take a Hex dump of it, thinking thats not going to do you much good unless you have the Map details.

You could try Superchips or Courtenay, but to be honest the cost for new re chip out ways the benifits you would get for a 2.5, you do seem to get slightly improved MPG though, ebay see's some second hand chips now and then, but mainly for the 3.0 lump.

If its power gains your after, then again as said before, 3.0 Cams is the best way to go.

Chris.

Java · « **Reply #6 on:** 11 October 2010, 15:16:16 »

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the easiest way to increase power on a 2.5 v6 is to fit the 3.0 camshafts,not sure what effect this has on economy though

Nice advice, will look into it as well but the main purpose for my "chipping desire" would mainly include the advantage of lower fuel consumption. Of course is the extra horsepowers also a nice plus. But again thanks for the great answers already!

Also, replacing the camshaft, how would that work out? In what way does that increase the power? Is it smaller so it rotates more often?

TheBoy · « **Reply #7 on:** 11 October 2010, 18:36:03 »

No v6 chips make a worthwhile difference to economy...

Java · « **Reply #8 on:** 11 October 2010, 18:47:07 »

Aww that's to bad. I heard about my father in law's brother chiped his car (a 2009 Peugeot something) and that one reduced the consumption with 1 liters per 10 km but that could maybe be bogges... I will look around some for chips and I might get one, hopefully will I get some result. Many thanks tho!

TheBoy · « **Reply #9 on:** 11 October 2010, 18:51:05 »

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Aww that's to bad. I heard about my father in law's brother chiped his car (a 2009 Peugeot something) and that one reduced the consumption with 1 liters per 10 km but that could maybe be bogges... I will look around some for chips and I might get one, hopefully will I get some result. Many thanks tho!

GM have done a pretty good job with economy... ...I reckon on a cruise, my chip gives me close to 1mpg better, but loses some when accelerating.

On diesels, there are gains to be made with mpg and chips...

Java · « **Reply #10 on:** 11 October 2010, 19:20:48 »

What I've found on Swedish sites who are selling and mounting chips fro 2.5 V6 they state:

Opel 2,5 V6 170Hk +18Hk +28Nm Skr 3000

3000 Swedish Kronor is appr. £285

Doesn't seem that far fetched, would mean like 10,5% more power I figured. But as you point out TheBoy, maybe it wont do that much in reality.

TheBoy · « **Reply #11 on:** 11 October 2010, 19:35:45 »

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What I've found on Swedish sites who are selling and mounting chips fro 2.5 V6 they state:

Opel 2,5 V6 170Hk +18Hk +28Nm Skr 3000

3000 Swedish Kronor is appr. £285

Doesn't seem that far fetched, would mean like 10,5% more power I figured. But as you point out TheBoy, maybe it wont do that much in reality.

The chip I use claims 10%. I doubt it myself. But all that extra power is at high revs, and then it does crucify the mpg....

Java · « **Reply #12 on:** 11 October 2010, 19:54:02 »

How much do your car suck on 10 km then TheBoy? I've been following and reseting my data quite a lot and found out that my car consumes 7.9 liters per 10 km.

Lets say that optimal driving would lower the consumption to 7.8 per 10 km that would mean 8 liters on 800 km (a trip to wifes parents) And the cost on V-power is circa 13.5 Sek (£1.28) per liter so that makes roughly counted 100 Sek (£9.45) per trip. Only 30 trips then I start saving money

TheBoy · « **Reply #13 on:** 11 October 2010, 20:03:18 »

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How much do your car suck on 10 km then TheBoy? I've been following and reseting my data quite a lot and found out that my car consumes 7.9 liters per 10 km.

Lets say that optimal driving would lower the consumption to 7.8 per 10 km that would mean 8 liters on 800 km (a trip to wifes parents) And the cost on V-power is circa 13.5 Sek (£1.28) per liter so that makes roughly counted 100 Sek (£9.45) per trip. Only 30 trips then I start saving money

Before I LPG'd it, I used to get approx 24-25mpg as an average over several thousand miles. 32mpg on a run. About the same figures as I got before it was chipped...

Java · « **Reply #14 on:** 11 October 2010, 20:27:19 »

That's like 10.2 liters per 10 km if I did the math right. That's a lot I think considering that my car takes almost 30% less ordinary.

Did you attach the chip by yourself?

TheBoy · « **Reply #15 on:** 11 October 2010, 20:33:49 »

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That's like 10.2 liters per 10 km if I did the math right. That's a lot I think considering that my car takes almost 30% less ordinary.

Did you attach the chip by yourself?

Mine is a 3l, and I do tend to drive a bit too fast

Java · « **Reply #16 on:** 11 October 2010, 20:40:42 »

Hehe, can't blame you. Found a dude that sells chips for a third of the cost i mentioned before but I have to put in myself so have you done it before TheBoy?

dbug · « **Reply #17 on:** 11 October 2010, 23:00:14 »

Maybe of interest - http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/VAUXHALL-OPEL-MOTORSPORT-CHIP-X25XE-2-5-V6-VECTRA-191-/290486360302?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item43a25618ee - no experience of this guy/chip though

Java · « **Reply #18 on:** 12 October 2010, 07:26:05 »

Really nice dbug, will see if I can win it. Never looked on eBay for Vauxhall even tho its the same as Opel

Thanks

Hi also sells ECU chip so that is even more interesting. Now I only need to know what to do when I get the chip

Kevin Wood · « **Reply #19 on:** 12 October 2010, 11:09:42 »

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Really nice dbug, will see if I can win it. Never looked on eBay for Vauxhall even tho its the same as Opel Thanks

Hi also sells ECU chip so that is even more interesting. Now I only need to know what to do when I get the chip

You have to take the ECU apart (just have to bend the metal tags straight, IIRC) and de-solder the original ROM. It's best to replace it with an IC socket so you can more easily swap chips in the future.

OK for someone who is reasonably proficient at soldering but if not, might be best to take it to someone who is.

Kevin

TheBoy · « **Reply #20 on:** 12 October 2010, 19:04:43 »

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Hehe, can't blame you. Found a dude that sells chips for a third of the cost i mentioned before but I have to put in myself so have you done it before TheBoy?

Yes.

There is a guide for diesel chipping in Maintenence Guides, petrol is similar enough to follow that guide (though if you want to write a guide specifically for V6, feel free)

TheBoy · « **Reply #21 on:** 12 October 2010, 19:05:46 »

Quote

Quote
Really nice dbug, will see if I can win it. Never looked on eBay for Vauxhall even tho its the same as Opel Thanks

Hi also sells ECU chip so that is even more interesting. Now I only need to know what to do when I get the chip

You have to take the ECU apart (just have to bend the metal tags straight, IIRC) and de-solder the original ROM. It's best to replace it with an IC socket so you can more easily swap chips in the future.

OK for someone who is reasonably proficient at soldering but if not, might be best to take it to someone who is.

Kevin

Every V6 Motronic one I've taken apart is already socketed

Hang on, I've got a Motronic in the kitchen... ...hold fire, I'll get a couple of pics....

Java · « **Reply #22 on:** 12 October 2010, 19:08:26 »

Marvelous, just marvelous! What could go wrong with a guide made by you guys?

TheBoy · « **Reply #23 on:** 12 October 2010, 19:13:16 »

TheBoy · « **Reply #24 on:** 12 October 2010, 19:15:13 »

The one above has a Superchips chip in, which is why the EPROM doesn't look like a normal EPROM...

aaronjb · « **Reply #25 on:** 12 October 2010, 19:20:20 »

Quote

Quote
Quote
Really nice dbug, will see if I can win it. Never looked on eBay for Vauxhall even tho its the same as Opel Thanks

Hi also sells ECU chip so that is even more interesting. Now I only need to know what to do when I get the chip

You have to take the ECU apart (just have to bend the metal tags straight, IIRC) and de-solder the original ROM. It's best to replace it with an IC socket so you can more easily swap chips in the future.

OK for someone who is reasonably proficient at soldering but if not, might be best to take it to someone who is.

Kevin
Every V6 Motronic one I've taken apart is already socketed

Hang on, I've got a Motronic in the kitchen... ...hold fire, I'll get a couple of pics....

Because who doesn't keep an ECU in the kitchen..

TheBoy · « **Reply #26 on:** 12 October 2010, 19:34:53 »

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Because who doesn't keep an ECU in the kitchen..

I can't think who wouldn't keep an engine ECU in the kitchen

She's not happy at the moment, she has an alternator and an exhaust heatshield in the kitchen today

But its when she finds car bits in the dishwasher at the same time as the crockery that she gets a real monk on....

Kevin Wood · « **Reply #27 on:** 12 October 2010, 19:37:53 »

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I can't think who wouldn't keep an engine ECU in the kitchen

Well, me, for one. Couple in the garage and most of the bits to build one in the loft. oh, and there's one behind me on the window sill in the living room.

I've even got a couple that are fitted in cars, too.

Kevin

Java · « **Reply #28 on:** 12 October 2010, 20:02:56 »

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Because who doesn't keep an ECU in the kitchen..

Haha that's funny

Thanks so damn much for the great pcitures TheBoy. Now nothing can go wrong

Lets ju hope the one I hopefully will win on eBay is as good as those you got. In my world is the chip the same but the "workhours" is the difference in price.

aaronjb · « **Reply #29 on:** 12 October 2010, 20:07:07 »

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But its when she finds car bits in the dishwasher at the same time as the crockery that she gets a real monk on....

I took my stainless steel teapot out of the dishwasher today and marvelled at how 30 years of accumulated tea staining is gone and the first thought I had was "I bet that would get engine bits really clean"..

Good job I live alone!

Anyway.. back to chips

jerry · « **Reply #30 on:** 12 October 2010, 20:14:25 »

bit off tangent, but I had a dastek unichip fitted to my old prelude (which was an autobox vtec) which was remapped on a rolling road. Autoboxes are always more difficult to map as accurately as manuals but I got improved power (nigh on extra 10%) with slightly better mpg. Of course the whole thing was retuned so that the vtec actuation point was lowered a bit and the fact that the mpg didnt decrease was probably down to the fact that Honda tend to run a bit rich in the first place. Overall, it was money well spent in terms of the amount of extra power I got per £spent-compared with what you get for the money you might spend on exhaust systems or induction kits for example. When I went to the same place to ask them about a dastek chip for my 2.5v6 auto omega however, I was told that 1)I wouldnt get the same sort of return that I got with the prelude (presumably because the mig isnt a vtec ) and that,2, as an autobox, it would be very hard to do(despite the prelude also being an autobox!). I phoned dastek and they said much the same-though stating that theyd done several very succesfull 2.5 manual Vectras. Seems like changing the cams is the way to go.

Java · « **Reply #31 on:** 13 October 2010, 10:11:34 »

Many people talk about changing the cam but talked to my brother regarding that and (hes a the new kind of mechanic. Plug in the computer, change the part) and he told me to really look up that the motors had the same technical specs. if I wanted to change cams, or it could go bad.

Lets compare 2.5 V6 and 3.0 24V, they both have 24V but does anything but the cam differ between them?

henryd · « **Reply #32 on:** 13 October 2010, 10:33:03 »

the 3.0 cams are a straight swap and reported to give 15 or so bhp extra due to the different profile used on the 3.0

Kevin Wood · « **Reply #33 on:** 13 October 2010, 11:38:29 »

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Many people talk about changing the cam but talked to my brother regarding that and (hes a the new kind of mechanic. Plug in the computer, change the part) and he told me to really look up that the motors had the same technical specs. if I wanted to change cams, or it could go bad.

Lets compare 2.5 V6 and 3.0 24V, they both have 24V but does anything but the cam differ between them?

Sounds advice but, to put your mind at ease:

a) Many people have put 3.0 cams in a 2.5 without any problems
b) GM actually sold a 2.5 V6 with these cams (in the Vectra SuperTouring 200 IIRC)

Kevin

Java · « **Reply #34 on:** 13 October 2010, 12:36:19 »

Hmm sounds to good to be true. So no need to change sensors or anything like that?

TheBoy · « **Reply #35 on:** 13 October 2010, 18:45:31 »

Java - no need to change anything else, just pop the 3.0l cams in. But use a torque wrench!!!

You get a better boost that the (mor expensive, normally) chip route

Or do both...

Java · « **Reply #36 on:** 13 October 2010, 20:16:06 »

Like I said, bought a chip and looking for camshafts now so lets see if I'll manage to put in a new camshaft. I presume its hard as hell for someone with no talents, right?

Sixstring · « **Reply #37 on:** 14 October 2010, 14:41:08 »

No, easily within the scope of a d.i.y orientated person.

If you are unsure or not confident enough, Darth Loo-Knee, or many others on here will happily do it for you for folding beer vouchers!!

*edit* dunno where "Lund" is, and seeing you call an estate a caravan, assume not in UK. This job is relatively easy, you must get the torque settings for the parts you need to remove, but the last ones I personally did took me about a whole day to do, from drive in to drive off. The Haynes or other manuals have a good section on pictorial assembly, so would buy one of those publications. Essentially you should have a good torque wrench, and a socket set including "torx" male and female types of sockets.
Take a deep breath, its really not that difficult.

aaronjb · « **Reply #38 on:** 14 October 2010, 14:49:32 »

You spotted it but yeah, I'm not sure DLK would be up for a trip to Sweden just to fit some cams

(Or he might, you never know!

)

Java · « **Reply #39 on:** 14 October 2010, 15:07:41 »

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No, easily within the scope of a d.i.y orientated person.

If you are unsure or not confident enough, Darth Loo-Knee, or many others on here will happily do it for you for folding beer vouchers!!

*edit* dunno where "Lund" is, and seeing you call an estate a caravan, assume not in UK. This job is relatively easy, you must get the torque settings for the parts you need to remove, but the last ones I personally did took me about a whole day to do, from drive in to drive off. The Haynes or other manuals have a good section on pictorial assembly, so would buy one of those publications. Essentially you should have a good torque wrench, and a socket set including "torx" male and female types of sockets.
Take a deep breath, its really not that difficult.

Lund my friend is a city in Sweden, very close to Malmoe if that rings a bell. Well I will have to give it a try all though I won't do it myself. Hopefully will my father-in-law help me out. Thanks everyone for your great responses. I will come back when I've both chipped and fitted the new cams into the car!

Sixstring · « **Reply #40 on:** 14 October 2010, 15:23:30 »

HaHa! yep, I know where Malmo is..........

just take your time, and I'll look forward to your posts when it is done.

Good Luck!!

dbug · « **Reply #41 on:** 15 October 2010, 21:41:55 »

Nice heliport in Malmo - used to fly in there from Copenhagen and pick up a rental car

Java · « **Reply #42 on:** 28 October 2010, 11:28:18 »

I'm back, right now I've taken out the box and located the chop which I want to replace. There is one small problem, it has a yellow plastic shell around itself. Should I break it of or should I be careful so I can reuse the shell?

Edit: Got it of and put the new chip on. Cant really say yet that I can notice any "lower" fuel consumption. I my world, it seems like the car goes faster and consumes more but I don't know...

Will that chip be "confused" when I've inserted the new camshaft from X30XE motor? Since the chip is designed for X25XE so to say, or?

deviator · « **Reply #43 on:** 28 October 2010, 15:54:06 »

Might I add, if you want economy and not performance.

Try J cams not G cams.

I believe J are the mildest cams available for the v6 engine and are part of the standard 3.2 sri vectra C setup.

Java · « **Reply #44 on:** 28 October 2010, 18:12:31 »

The point of the cams were performance but the chip said to be economic which is why i presumed that it should be cheaper, if I get more power thats fine by me

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Author Topic: Want to chiptune a omega 2.5 V6 (Read 3991 times)

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