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[terry paget]

I feel I need an estate in the fleet, and my 2000 Omega estate is dying. Researching Which? used cars, the Honda Accord estate keeps popping as a Best Buy, and looking on e-bay they seem to be quite cheap and numerous. Have memebers any views?

[Sir Tigger KC]

Honda's generally have a good reputation Terry, but if you are looking for a cheap estate I'd suggest a Volvo V70. 

My 2004 2.4 D5 cost £900 a year ago with about 142,000 on the clock (now about 160,000) and I've been very pleased with it.  Apart from a few small niggles that you will get with any old car nothing has gone seriously wrong with it, it has no rust and is big, roomy and comfortable. 

Parts are cheap as there are loads of them about, and when you look on ebay/autotrader/facebook/gumtree etc there are plenty with interstellar mileages 250k+, but they are still going strong and are still solid.  You don't see rusty V70's

I don't know what your budget is but this looks like a decent example...


https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2005-05-VOLVO-V70-2-4D-163-SE-AUTO-ESTATE-5dr-DIESEL-LEATHER-NAV-SUNROOF/274254201211?hash=item3fdad3017b:g:icMAAOSwc7tePask

[aaronjb]

Friend had a diesel Honda Accord estate for many years (2003 vintage, I think, or thereabouts) and absolutely nothing went wrong with it given the bare minimum of maintenance.. got replaced a couple of years ago for no real reason other than they wanted to swap to petrol, I think. From memory, anyway.

[Nick W]

An Accord is slightly smaller than an Omega, but is otherwise a very similar car: comfortable, nice to drive and has no image whatsoever.


Service and consumable parts are reasonably affordable(plugs, oil, filters, brakes), but if you have to repair the thing you'll regret even considering one.

[Doctor Gollum]

Vectra Estate. 1.8 petrol.

[BazaJT]

Volvo V70 all the way-I may be biased as I have one-XC70 has all wheel drive or if you want RWD you'd have to go for the earlier 7/8/9 series Volvos.Petrol and diesel 5 pot motors are ex VW/Audi motors easily capable of mega miles.No sign or rot on my 20yr old V70 but at 140,000mls it's barely run in.

[terry paget]

An Accord is slightly smaller than an Omega, but is otherwise a very similar car: comfortable, nice to drive and has no image whatsoever.


Service and consumable parts are reasonably affordable(plugs, oil, filters, brakes), but if you have to repair the thing you'll regret even considering one.

A Honda Accord estate owning chum admits spares are expensive, and can be hard to fit. He bought an aftermarket exhaust for £200, it caused detonation and he had to buy a genuine exhaust at twice the price . Wheel bearings seem prone to failure too. He's got 17" wheels and finds the ride harsh.

[Rangie]

Neighbour had one from new a few years back lovely metallic maroon colour kept it for 8/9 years & it never missed a beat downsized to a Honda Jazz and that according to him is superbly reliable as  was the Accord.

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

No experience really, but my impression of Honda cars (like their bikes) is that they are very well built, but can be expensive to fix if they do go wrong.

[annihilator]

Vectra Estate. 1.8 petrol.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/133341771332

Looks like a good one.

[terry paget]

Agreed. Fancy one rear number plate light failure being an MOT fail item! However, after 20 years of Vauxhalls I am wondering whether a change might do me good. Members on this forum seem to be enjoying Jaguars, Mercedes, Volvos etc. Hence my foolish temptation to buy an old and cheap Honda or Volvo with long MOT to try one out. Then I could scrap it when it broke down, acknowledge my error and buy a Vectra.
My problem with the Vectra is my clutch foot hits the 'bell housing' bulge unless I consciously aim to the right, and when I forget the gear change crunches.

[dave the builder]

Agreed. Fancy one rear number plate light failure being an MOT fail item! However, after 20 years of Vauxhalls I am wondering whether a change might do me good. Members on this forum seem to be enjoying Jaguars, Mercedes, Volvos etc. Hence my foolish temptation to buy an old and cheap Honda or Volvo with long MOT to try one out. Then I could scrap it when it broke down, acknowledge my error and buy a Vectra.
My problem with the Vectra is my clutch foot hits the 'bell housing' bulge unless I consciously aim to the right, and when I forget the gear change crunches.

Try one of them newfangled "automatic gearbox" cars Terry 

*****just remember NOT to dip the clutch when slowing down *****
(because the clutch pedal is in fact the brake, and you nose plant the windscreen )

[Nick W]

Try one of them newfangled "automatic gearbox" cars Terry 

*****just remember NOT to dip the clutch when slowing down *****
(because the clutch pedal is in fact the brake, and you nose plant the windscreen )

that's never a problem if you're automatically using your left foot to operate the brakes.

[dave the builder]

Try one of them newfangled "automatic gearbox" cars Terry 

*****just remember NOT to dip the clutch when slowing down *****
(because the clutch pedal is in fact the brake, and you nose plant the windscreen )

that's never a problem if you're automatically using your left foot to operate the brakes.

but my left foot is the clutch only foot 
my right foot does STOP and GO
Uncle Stemo said so 

[Nick W]

Try one of them newfangled "automatic gearbox" cars Terry 

*****just remember NOT to dip the clutch when slowing down *****
(because the clutch pedal is in fact the brake, and you nose plant the windscreen )

that's never a problem if you're automatically using your left foot to operate the brakes.

but my left foot is the clutch only foot 
my right foot does STOP and GO

I'm the same, when driving a manual car.


But when you only have two pedals, which are never used at the same time, using both feet makes more sense.

[Andy B]

....

that's never a problem if you're automatically using your left foot to operate the brakes.

  left foot braking is the future 

[STEMO]

Try one of them newfangled "automatic gearbox" cars Terry 

*****just remember NOT to dip the clutch when slowing down *****
(because the clutch pedal is in fact the brake, and you nose plant the windscreen )

that's never a problem if you're automatically using your left foot to operate the brakes.

but my left foot is the clutch only foot 
my right foot does STOP and GO

I'm the same, when driving a manual car.


But when you only have two pedals, which are never used at the same time, using both feet makes more sense.

No, it doesn't. If you have two pedals not to be used at the same time, using only your right foot makes sure only one can be used. Using one foot for each raises the possibility of both being applied at once, especially in an emergency situation.

[Andy B]

.....
No, it doesn't. If you have two pedals not to be used at the same time, using only your right foot makes sure only one can be used. Using one foot for each raises the possibility of both being applied at once, especially in an emergency situation.

why would you press them at the same time? I left foot brake (I have to really think about using my right foot) and on occasion when I've had to stand on the brakes, my left foot was already there covering the brake pedal. 
Your comment is only ever made by people that are not able to left foot brake. 

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

I only ever use  my left foot for the brake in an auto. To do otherwise feels unnatural for some reason. Never hit both pedals at once in 25 years of doing it. My right foot is proper ficked though and Im not fully aware of what its doing or where its going most of the time, so that may be a contributory factor.
Don't have any problems driving a manual really, but that's probably 40 odd years of doing it has made things instinctive.

[STEMO]

.....
No, it doesn't. If you have two pedals not to be used at the same time, using only your right foot makes sure only one can be used. Using one foot for each raises the possibility of both being applied at once, especially in an emergency situation.

why would you press them at the same time? I left foot brake (I have to really think about using my right foot) and on occasion when I've had to stand on the brakes, my left foot was already there covering the brake pedal. 
Your comment is only ever made by people that are not able to left foot brake. 

Using one foot it's not possible to hit both pedals at once, using two it is.

[STEMO]

Although, having had a read up on the subject, it appears that a lot of drivers use one foot for each pedal. So .......please yer fickin self. 

[dave the builder]

My advice was to Terry ,who's been driving manuals since Karl Benz invented them IIRC 
IF Terry did try a newfangled "automatic gearbox" propelled vehicle ....
using JUST the right foot for STOP and GO would probably feel more natural
as god intended  he only gave us LEFT feet to work the clutch and stop us falling over

[Rangie]

The only way to drive an auto is with one foot , anything else is foolish .

[dave the builder]

The only way to drive an auto is with one foot , anything else is foolish .

Hear, hear ! 

[Andy B]

My advice was to Terry ,who's been driving manuals since Karl Benz invented them IIRC  ....

Then Terry needs to get with it & have a proper try of an auto ... not just a spin around the block 

[Andy B]

....
Using one foot it's not possible to hit both pedals at once,.....

How do people 'heel & toe' then? 

[STEMO]

....
Using one foot it's not possible to hit both pedals at once,.....

How do people 'heel & toe' then? 

By being a racing driver and doing it on purpose.

[STEMO]

You'd have to be a bit of a tosser to do it accidentally.

[Andy B]

.... and doing it on purpose.

But you said pressing two pedals with one foot wasn't possible ..... 

I press the brake pedal with my left foot on purpose 

[Andy B]

You'd have to be a bit of a tosser to do it accidentally.

likewise pressing both pedals with both feet ..... 

[Keith ABS]

 I passed my advanced driving test using the left foot to brake the auto Senator I had at the time

[Andy B]

I passed my advanced driving test using the left foot to brake the auto Senator I had at the time

I did a speed awareness course years ago when you went out in a car. The instructor gave me the same BS about the possibility of pressing both pedals when he saw me left foot braking.

[STEMO]

People who use the correct method of one foot will continue to do so, as will people who use the wrong method. No use either trying to influence the other, really. 

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

I don't think you can say that either is right or wrong. If people use the one that works best for them and they drive safely while doing so then there isn't a right or wrong way.
Modern F1 cars  only have two pedals, and some F1 drivers use one foot and others use both.

[STEMO]

F1 drivers apart, one of the reasons I read why you shouldn't do it is because you risk giving the driver behind contra-indications by driving with your left foot slightly touching the brake pedal, thus putting your brake lights on. I don't expect that anyone on here would do that, I'm talking about mere mortals.

I know a driving examiner who walks his dog at the same time as me occasionally. I'll ask him what the situation regarding the automatic test is when I see him next.

[Andy B]

... I'll ask him what the situation regarding the automatic test is when I see him next.

He'll say the world will end if you use both feet 

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

I don't drive along with my left foot hovering over the brake pedal so that's not going to happen. Either way is perfectly fine, its just what you get used to I suppose.

[aaronjb]

F1 drivers apart, one of the reasons I read why you shouldn't do it is because you risk giving the driver behind contra-indications by driving with your left foot slightly touching the brake pedal, thus putting your brake lights on. I don't expect that anyone on here would do that, I'm talking about mere mortals.

Extend that logic a bit and you'd be suggesting that everyone who drives a manual car must go through clutches every few thousand miles because they're always lightly touching the clutch, causing it to slip..

..that said, I've known a few women who habitually drove in six-inch heels who did exactly that, for exactly that reason..

[STEMO]

... I'll ask him what the situation regarding the automatic test is when I see him next.

He'll say the world will end if you use both feet 

Have you caught the rolling eye smiley virus from Al? 

He definitely won't say that, as it is obviously incorrect. He may say it's frowned upon or even a fail. He may say it's perfectly fine, we'll see.

[Nick W]

F1 drivers apart, one of the reasons I read why you shouldn't do it is because you risk giving the driver behind contra-indications by driving with your left foot slightly touching the brake pedal, thus putting your brake lights on. I don't expect that anyone on here would do that, I'm talking about mere mortals.

lots of drivers already move their right foot onto the brake pedal enough to illuminate the lights, but not the brakes. The driver behind then has no indication when they actually begin to brake. This is particularly common when turning left: lift off, touch the brake pedal, indicate(sometimes), 3m later turn in, then stomp the pedal to the floor when they finally spot the other traffic in the turning.

[STEMO]

F1 drivers apart, one of the reasons I read why you shouldn't do it is because you risk giving the driver behind contra-indications by driving with your left foot slightly touching the brake pedal, thus putting your brake lights on. I don't expect that anyone on here would do that, I'm talking about mere mortals.

lots of drivers already move their right foot onto the brake pedal enough to illuminate the lights, but not the brakes. The driver behind then has no indication when they actually begin to brake. This is particularly common when turning left: lift off, touch the brake pedal, indicate(sometimes), 3m later turn in, then stomp the pedal to the floor when they finally spot the other traffic in the turning.

That, at least, is an indication that you intend to slow down. Brake lights while travelling along with traffic would give the wrong indication.

[TheBoy]

But when you only have two pedals, which are never used at the same time, using both feet makes more sense.

Now that's not always true, and moreso now that just about everything is turbocharged.

[STEMO]

I thought I'd try using two feet when I went out this aft, it felt really uncomfortable and just wrong. When I used my left foot for the clutch, it was always on the left hand side of the footwell. But with the brake pedal being more towards the middle, I felt the need to turn towards the drivers side window. 

[Andy B]

For all those against left foot braking  ..... have you tried pressing both pedals at the same time? If you have a fly-by-wire throttle (which most cars have these days) then you'll find that after a very short time, the throttle effectively gets switched off 

[Andy B]

I thought I'd try using two feet when I went out this aft, it felt really uncomfortable and just wrong. When I used my left foot for the clutch, it was always on the left hand side of the footwell. But with the brake pedal being more towards the middle, I felt the need to turn towards the drivers side window. 

when practising left foot braking ..... brake as you would normally do with your right, but cover the pedal with your left at the same time 

[Andy B]

I thought I'd try using two feet when I went out this aft, it felt really uncomfortable and just wrong. When I used my left foot for the clutch, it was always on the left hand side of the footwell. But with the brake pedal being more towards the middle, I felt the need to turn towards the drivers side window. 

Ride a British motorbike after you've mostly ridden a Japanese bike .... that's fun as the gear lever & brake pedal are on opposite sides & the gears are arse about face from each other. But you soon learn the difference. 

[Rangie]

Why make something so easy as driving an automatic vehicle so  complicated ? Words fail me ..

[Andy B]

Why make something so easy as driving an automatic vehicle so  complicated ? Words fail me ..

don't speak then ..... 

[Sir Tigger KC]

Why make something so easy as driving an automatic vehicle so  complicated ? Words fail me ..

^^^ This... ^^^                                                            

[Rangie]

Why make something so easy as driving an automatic vehicle so  complicated ? Words fail me ..

don't speak then ..... 

. 

I have never read so much nonsense on this site before , about such a simple  operation .😀

[Andy B]

Why make something so easy as driving an automatic vehicle so  complicated ? Words fail me ..

don't speak then ..... 

. 

I have never read so much nonsense on this site before , about such a simple  operation .😀

So you agree with Stemo & everyone should drive as you do!

[dave the builder]

Obviously shows that we are all different
well , 2 ways of driving an automatic anyway 
I guess whatever you're comfortable with is the correct way (for you) 

[STEMO]

Obviously shows that we are all different
well , 2 ways of driving an automatic anyway 
I guess whatever you're comfortable with is the correct way (for you) 

I know you're a bit of a newbie compared to some of us, so let me explain the ways of OOF. If a disagreement starts on a thread, all parties dig their heels in and refuse to budge, not even the tiniest, weeniest bit. The internet is searched rabidly to find any small snippet of information to back up your theory. If that doesn't work, you make stuff up, and look back at previous posts to see if there's anything you can use to ridicule your adversaries.
If you manage to win the argument, great, but it's better if you can humiliate them too.
If no resolution is found at the end, then grudges are held and you jump down each others throat at every opportunity.
Got it?

[Sir Tigger KC]

Obviously shows that we are all different
well , 2 ways of driving an automatic anyway 
I guess whatever you're comfortable with is the correct way (for you) 

I know you're a bit of a newbie compared to some of us, so let me explain the ways of OOF. If a disagreement starts on a thread, all parties dig their heels in and refuse to budge, not even the tiniest, weeniest bit. The internet is searched rabidly to find any small snippet of information to back up your theory. If that doesn't work, you make stuff up, and look back at previous posts to see if there's anything you can use to ridicule your adversaries.
If you manage to win the argument, great, but it's better if you can humiliate them too.
If no resolution is found at the end, then grudges are held and you jump down each others throat at every opportunity.
Got it?

And never ever let the other person have the last word!   

[Rangie]

Obviously shows that we are all different
well , 2 ways of driving an automatic anyway 
I guess whatever you're comfortable with is the correct way (for you) 

I know you're a bit of a newbie compared to some of us, so let me explain the ways of OOF. If a disagreement starts on a thread, all parties dig their heels in and refuse to budge, not even the tiniest, weeniest bit. The internet is searched rabidly to find any small snippet of information to back up your theory. If that doesn't work, you make stuff up, and look back at previous posts to see if there's anything you can use to ridicule your adversaries.
If you manage to win the argument, great, but it's better if you can humiliate them too.
If no resolution is found at the end, then grudges are held and you jump down each others throat at every opportunity.
Got it?

And never ever let the other person have the last word!   

.   

+ There's no point in continuing when you know you're right ..
😀😀😀😀

[dave the builder]

Obviously shows that we are all different
well , 2 ways of driving an automatic anyway 
I guess whatever you're comfortable with is the correct way (for you) 

I know you're a bit of a newbie compared to some of us, so let me explain the ways of OOF. If a disagreement starts on a thread, all parties dig their heels in and refuse to budge, not even the tiniest, weeniest bit. The internet is searched rabidly to find any small snippet of information to back up your theory. If that doesn't work, you make stuff up, and look back at previous posts to see if there's anything you can use to ridicule your adversaries.
If you manage to win the argument, great, but it's better if you can humiliate them too.
If no resolution is found at the end, then grudges are held and you jump down each others throat at every opportunity.
Got it?

  spilt my coffee 
OK,
mo ones even mentioned using your left foot for STOP and GO   

[STEMO]

Obviously shows that we are all different
well , 2 ways of driving an automatic anyway 
I guess whatever you're comfortable with is the correct way (for you) 

I know you're a bit of a newbie compared to some of us, so let me explain the ways of OOF. If a disagreement starts on a thread, all parties dig their heels in and refuse to budge, not even the tiniest, weeniest bit. The internet is searched rabidly to find any small snippet of information to back up your theory. If that doesn't work, you make stuff up, and look back at previous posts to see if there's anything you can use to ridicule your adversaries.
If you manage to win the argument, great, but it's better if you can humiliate them too.
If no resolution is found at the end, then grudges are held and you jump down each others throat at every opportunity.
Got it?

  spilt my coffee 
OK,
mo ones even mentioned using your left foot for STOP and GO   

Could be an option if you only had one leg, I suppose. 

[dave the builder]

Obviously shows that we are all different
well , 2 ways of driving an automatic anyway 
I guess whatever you're comfortable with is the correct way (for you) 

I know you're a bit of a newbie compared to some of us, so let me explain the ways of OOF. If a disagreement starts on a thread, all parties dig their heels in and refuse to budge, not even the tiniest, weeniest bit. The internet is searched rabidly to find any small snippet of information to back up your theory. If that doesn't work, you make stuff up, and look back at previous posts to see if there's anything you can use to ridicule your adversaries.
If you manage to win the argument, great, but it's better if you can humiliate them too.
If no resolution is found at the end, then grudges are held and you jump down each others throat at every opportunity.
Got it?

  spilt my coffee 
OK,
mo ones even mentioned using your left foot for STOP and GO   

Could be an option if you only had one leg, I suppose. 

or really need the loo 

[Rangie]

Obviously shows that we are all different
well , 2 ways of driving an automatic anyway 
I guess whatever you're comfortable with is the correct way (for you) 

I know you're a bit of a newbie compared to some of us, so let me explain the ways of OOF. If a disagreement starts on a thread, all parties dig their heels in and refuse to budge, not even the tiniest, weeniest bit. The internet is searched rabidly to find any small snippet of information to back up your theory. If that doesn't work, you make stuff up, and look back at previous posts to see if there's anything you can use to ridicule your adversaries.
If you manage to win the argument, great, but it's better if you can humiliate them too.
If no resolution is found at the end, then grudges are held and you jump down each others throat at every opportunity.
Got it?

  spilt my coffee 
OK,
mo ones even mentioned using your left foot for STOP and GO   

Could be an option if you only had one leg, I suppose. 

or really need the loo 

. 


I actually have a mate who had his right leg amputated after treading on a landmine drives an automatic Jaguar with the pedals swapped over ! I have driven it & got used to it in a very short space of time just using my left foot.

[dave the builder]

I have a disabled friend with push pull steering wheel controls (no legs or feet)
i tried using those controls 
fortunately the car still has stop go pedals as well   

no doubt you would get used to it if you had no choice

[STEMO]

There'll be no need for any interaction at all when we all become Jetsons.

[dave the builder]

There'll be no need for any interaction at all when we all become Jetsons.

I think even I will be pushing up the daisies before that happens Uncle Stemo   

[Sir Tigger KC]

I have a disabled friend with push pull steering wheel controls (no legs or feet)
i tried using those controls 
fortunately the car still has stop go pedals as well   

no doubt you would get used to it if you had no choice

I've always go on quite well with my mate's hand controls, although cruise control is a massive help for motorway driving. 

He also has a Defender with a manual gearbox, where there is a little lever that presses the clutch pedal.  So when you want to change gear, press a button on the gear stick, there's a momentary delay, the clutch is pressed and you then change gear.  Release the button and the clutch is released. 

It's a great system but takes a little getting used to! 

[Andy B]

....
I actually have a mate who had his right leg amputated after treading on a landmine drives an automatic Jaguar with the pedals swapped over ! I have driven it & got used to it in a very short space of time just using my left foot.

Father in law had a stroke years ago which left his right side fubar'd .... His car  is adapted such that there are two throttle pedals however only one can be used at a time, as you lift one out of the way, the other drops down using bowden cables.
His brother in law tried to move the car and tried to use the left foot throttle, however being a die hard manual driver (he has a manual Jaag  ) when he 'dipped the clutch' he ploughed backwards into a hedge at great speed  . As he had the door open while manoeuvring it, he managed to bend the A post when the open door caught in the thick hedge! 

[terry paget]

I thought I'd try using two feet when I went out this aft, it felt really uncomfortable and just wrong. When I used my left foot for the clutch, it was always on the left hand side of the footwell. But with the brake pedal being more towards the middle, I felt the need to turn towards the drivers side window. 

Ride a British motorbike after you've mostly ridden a Japanese bike .... that's fun as the gear lever & brake pedal are on opposite sides & the gears are arse about face from each other. But you soon learn the difference. 

My pal with the Honda Accord estate, which he recommends, also owns 2 1930 Austin 7s, a Honda sports car, a Honda Jazz and a VW Campervan. He has recently bought a small Japanese motorcycle on which to learn to ride and pass his test, after which he intends to buy a 1950 BSA A10, either rigid frame or plunger. The A10 is the basic 650 twin; I used to have a BSA Road Rocket, and that was not very fast. I must warn him that the foot brake and the gear change will be on the opposite sides, though I imagine he already knows. 

[Andy B]

.... I must warn him that the foot brake and the gear change will be on the opposite sides, though I imagine he already knows.

He'll soon learn 

[aaronjb]

I actually have a mate who had his right leg amputated after treading on a landmine ...

Jeez, they've really stepped up security at your gaff?

Re Andy B's point about the brake effectively disabling the throttle if applied simultaneously - that was a common cause for complaint on some of the newer (ok, probably decade old by now!) 911s as it effectively stopped you from heel 'n toeing (if you bought one with a proper gearbox rather than the PDK, that is). Seemed like a bit of a blunder on what is meant to be a sports car

[Doctor Gollum]

On Unimogs, you can fold the clutch pedal in or out of the way Unfortunately the semi automated manual that the pedal is attached to won't be rushed, and if you annoy it, then it simply sits in neutral until you've stopped

[TheBoy]

For all those against left foot braking  ..... have you tried pressing both pedals at the same time? If you have a fly-by-wire throttle (which most cars have these days) then you'll find that after a very short time, the throttle effectively gets switched off 

Most implementations allow an element of using both. Ignoring L series rovers. No need to ask how I found that out.

The Omega, this being an Omega site, allows full abuse

[Andy B]

.... ....
The Omega, this being an Omega site, allows full abuse