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[Auto Addict]

My mates car has failed the MOT, told it needs a brake fluid change.

Is this correct?

[henryd]

It may well need one but don't believe the tester can fail it for that

Edit

Looking online it seems that if tester can see contamination of fluid he can fail it

[Auto Addict]

It may well need one but don't believe the tester can fail it for that

Exactly, how could they tell!

[Doctor Gollum]

It may well need one but don't believe the tester can fail it for that

Exactly, how could they tell!

If the fluid is particularly dark or has obvious bits floating in the reservoir...

[Auto Addict]

It may well need one but don't believe the tester can fail it for that

Exactly, how could they tell!

If the fluid is particularly dark or has obvious bits floating in the reservoir...

It's not, I've had a look, clean as a whistle, he's going to take it elsewhere.

[Bigron]

They can check for water content, which doesn't show on a visual inspection. The water can boil off in the brake cylinders and result in inefficient or no brakes!

Ron.

[Andy B]

My tester has never removed the cap of any car I've taken for a test & unless you did so, IMHO it'd be impossible to tell the state of the fluid 

[Bigron]

Really, if your brake fluid is the original or hasn't been changed for some time, accept that your tester was doing you a favour and have it changed - the cost is trivial compared to a potential accident or loss of life.....

Ron.

[Andy B]

Really, if your brake fluid is the original or hasn't been changed for some time, accept that your tester was doing you a favour and have it changed - the cost is trivial compared to a potential accident or loss of life.....

Ron.

But there's no evidence that there is a problem with Barry's mate's car's brake fluid.   

[Sir Tigger KC]

Don't they take a sample of the brake fluid and test it in a spectrum analyser or something?     

How much are we talking to change the brake fluid anyway? 

[dave the builder]

Really, if your brake fluid is the original or hasn't been changed for some time, accept that your tester was doing you a favour and have it changed - the cost is trivial compared to a potential accident or loss of life.....

Ron.

Spot on , well said that man 

even if it's clean looking in the reservoir, who knows what it's like in the calipers,plus it absorbs moisture ,replacing it on a regular basis based on mileage AND age is good practice.

As for the NT (mot tester) he has inspected the brakes,felt pedal travel, brake tested on the rollers (so knows what the brakes are like) and can compare from experience good and bad brakes .

even if it is the cars first MOT , that is 3 year old brake fluid

I think tyres and brakes are pretty important and just meeting the minimum requirements at MOT time warrants at least an advisory , because some people get their MOT certificate and do NO maintenance to their car for another 12 months (next MOT )   

[Bigron]

Maybe this will help?
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=brake+fluid+testing&t=ffnt&ia=web

Ron.

[dave the builder]

I would not recommend Brake fluid testing with cheap Chinese probes that you stick in the reservoir.
the fluid in the calipers is subjected to much bigger temperature differentials ,so calipers can suck in moisture and dirt particles .

brake fluid is cheap,
 if you DIY a brake fluid change and clean up the calipers ,so the pads move  the cost is peanuts .

if you have your car serviced by a good garage , the cost of tagging a complete brake fluid change onto the service is minimal (because they have your car on the ramps anyway )

[STEMO]

Don't they take a sample of the brake fluid and test it in a spectrum analyser or something?     

How much are we talking to change the brake fluid anyway? 

Ah...the old rectum paralyiser, haven't used one of them for over 40 years. 

[Andy B]

Really, if your brake fluid is the original or hasn't been changed for some time, accept that your tester was doing you a favour and have it changed - the cost is trivial compared to a potential accident or loss of life.....

Ron.

Spot on , well said that man 

even if it's clean looking in the reservoir, who knows what it's like in the calipers,plus it absorbs moisture ,replacing it on a regular basis based on mileage AND age is good practice.

As for the NT (mot tester) he has inspected the brakes,felt pedal travel, brake tested on the rollers (so knows what the brakes are like) and can compare from experience good and bad brakes .

even if it is the cars first MOT , that is 3 year old brake fluid

I think tyres and brakes are pretty important and just meeting the minimum requirements at MOT time warrants at least an advisory , because some people get their MOT certificate and do NO maintenance to their car for another 12 months (next MOT )   

No one is denying that Dave, but this seems to be the first that anyone here has heard of brake fluid being an MOT fail.

[Bigron]

I'm not sure about in the new, more stringent MOT regulations, but even under the old ones it would be covered by overall braking efficiency. No specific requirement to check the fluid, but if that tester found the brake test results to be marginal, then all credit to him for checking the fluid - he is on the OP's side!

Ron.

[Raeturbo]

Changes to testable items and defects from 20 May

There's a major overhaul of the MOT testers' manual that came in at the same time as the new defect categories.

There's a long list of changes with some new checks added, some existing checks updated and a few failure items removed.  Changes include:


New items

Brake fluid contamination
Daytime running lights
Front fog lights
Reversing lamps
Light source and lamp not compatible - Halogen headlamps converted for HID bulbs will fail
Vehicle Identification Number (VIN) obviously falsified
Brake lining or pad wear indicator illuminated
Engine malfunction indicator lamp
Exhaust gas recirculation valve
NOx sensor
Evidence that a Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF) has been tampered with
Any visible smoke from a vehicle with DPF
Stricter limits for emissions from diesels with a DPF
Fluid leaks other than coolant and Adblue

[Raeturbo]

However the mot tester is not allowed to dismantle anything... would taking the cap off be dismantling?..   Brakes were probably crap on the rollers so he checked the fluid it’s very hydroscopic and the higher the dot dot 4 dot 5 the more it is. Remember the days of dot3.

[raywilb]

 do i,-  if i was to change the fluid on my omega do i just open the bleed nipple at the furthest from the reservoir & wait till clean fluid comes through ?? mine is in for its m.o.t at the mo.

 

[Nick W]

You need to replace the fluid in lines and calipers, so you have to bleed each nipple until you get fresh fluid at them all. In this case, I would start at the closest and work round ensuring that the reservoir never runs dry.

[dave the builder]

The new MOT testable items have been in effect since may last year , so nearly 12 months, and was well publicized long before it came into effect .

some items do not apply across the board , eg , reversing lights on vehicles first used from 1 September 2009
Headlamp washers tested on vehicles first used on or after 1 September 2009
daytime running lights on vehicles first used from 1 March 2018

another item that has been testable for a while is trailer wiring ,however there is no standard for 7 pin socket wiring , so only 13 pin plugs should be tested for operation
(but all can fail on dangerous wiring etc)

[raywilb]

You need to replace the fluid in lines and calipers, so you have to bleed each nipple until you get fresh fluid at them all. In this case, I would start at the closest and work round ensuring that the reservoir never runs dry.

ok thanks . not been done for since dont know when.

[Marks DTM Calib]

They don't physically test the brake fluid, its inspection only.

AA, what was the exact failure reference code, it may have been for a braking issue and they are proposing a fluid change may fix it.

[dave the builder]

You need to replace the fluid in lines and calipers, so you have to bleed each nipple until you get fresh fluid at them all. In this case, I would start at the closest and work round ensuring that the reservoir never runs dry.

ok thanks . not been done for since dont know when.

I genuinely believe you will notice an improvement in pedal feel and braking when brake fluid is replaced 
(assuming the brakes are bled correctly and the calipers are free )

[terry paget]

I used to experience brake fluid boiling in my rallying days, the 1960s, have not known it since. Now I change the brake fluid because Vx advises it lest corrosion damages the ABS valves, though I have never heard of it happening.

[Raeturbo]

I used to experience brake fluid boiling in my rallying days, the 1960s, have not known it since. Now I change the brake fluid because Vx advises it lest corrosion damages the ABS valves, though I have never heard of it happening.
[/quote
               Yes, I’m using dot5 in the Evo in which I do a few track days and is a definite improvement, obviously I’m using racing pads too so the brakes get a lot hotter and need the higher spec fluid. As for the OP a simple bleeding of the brakes can only be of benefit, and you will know it’s done for sure this time

[raywilb]

do i,-  if i was to change the fluid on my omega do i just open the bleed nipple at the furthest from the reservoir & wait till clean fluid comes through ?? mine is in for its m.o.t at the mo.

i always did  empty the the oil pan fully via the sump plug.

[dave the builder]

do i,-  if i was to change the fluid on my omega do i just open the bleed nipple at the furthest from the reservoir & wait till clean fluid comes through ?? mine is in for its m.o.t at the mo.

i always did  empty the the oil pan fully via the sump plug.

won't help your brakes much 
or are you posting in the wrong thread   

[Doctor Gollum]

do i,-  if i was to change the fluid on my omega do i just open the bleed nipple at the furthest from the reservoir & wait till clean fluid comes through ?? mine is in for its m.o.t at the mo.

i always did  empty the the oil pan fully via the sump plug.

won't help your brakes much 
or are you posting in the wrong thread   

It's an age thing

[Kevin Wood]

I used to experience brake fluid boiling in my rallying days, the 1960s, have not known it since. Now I change the brake fluid because Vx advises it lest corrosion damages the ABS valves, though I have never heard of it happening.

It's not just the ABS valves but all seals and wet components in the system. Neglecting the fluid is a false economy, as you'll soon find yourself with leaking seals, rusting pistons and so on, even if your driving style doesn't regularly test the boiling point of the fluid.  

I tend to pull some fresh fluid through whatever branch of the system I'm working on whenever I'm changing the brake pads. I loosen the bleed nipple to expel the old fluid as I'm retracting the caliper piston, so it's little extra effort to hook up the eezibleed and squirt a bit of new fluid through*.


*- unless some muppet lets the eezibleed run out and fills the system with compressed air instead.

[biggriffin]

A little cheat for you all, extract the fluid from the master, and refill with fresh,. Or do it properly and bleed new fluid right thro.

[Kevin Wood]

Yes, forgot to say, that before I do a fluid change I syringe the old fluid out of the reservoir as far as possible. This fluid is probably the worst, as it is in contact with air, so you need to repolace it first, or make sure you bleed enough through to ensure it's all gone.

It's less easy to suck all the fluid out of the reservoir section for the rear brakes, as there's a partition in the reservoir that separates the two sections.

[dave the builder]

A little cheat for you all, extract the fluid from the master, and refill with fresh,.

won't make your brakes work any better , just fools the MOT tester into giving you a piece of paper to say your car met minimum requirements during the 45 minutes he inspected it *

* unless it's a phone up with the Reg. MOT ,car not present 

  do it properly and bleed new fluid right thro.

a much better way 

[TheBoy]

I used to experience brake fluid boiling in my rallying days, the 1960s, have not known it since.

Try a brisk drive across MK.  That'll heat 'em up, and test them thoroughly.

[STEMO]

I've never had the brake fluid changed on any car that I've owned.

[TheBoy]

I've never had the brake fluid changed on any car that I've owned.

[dave the builder]

I've never had the brake fluid changed on any car that I've owned.

are you saying you drive the car till the brakes fail and you crash, then buy another 

[Andy B]

However the mot tester is not allowed to dismantle anything... would taking the cap off be dismantling?..   Brakes were probably crap on the rollers so he checked the fluid it’s very hydroscopic and the higher the dot dot 4 dot 5 the more it is. Remember the days of dot3.

Hygroscopic 

[Nick W]

I've never had the brake fluid changed on any car that I've owned.

I've never noticed any improvement from changing the fluid. Adjusting or freeing off stuck components ALWAYS makes a difference. A long pedal or poor handbrake are reliable symptoms of such issues that need to be fixed.


Checking for odd brake wear patterns and fluid loss is one of the jobs you do whilst the oil is draining. Actually doing that would be a good justification for the short oil changes recommended here.

[Andy B]

You need to replace the fluid in lines and calipers, so you have to bleed each nipple until you get fresh fluid at them all. In this case, I would start at the closest and work round ensuring that the reservoir never runs dry.

And that still doesn't replace the fluid in the ABS pump ..... you need a way of cycling the pump to do so.

[Doctor Gollum]

I've never owned a new car long enough to have needed to have had the brake fluid changed on any car.

More like... 

[STEMO]

I've never owned a new car long enough or with a high enough mileage to have needed to have had the brake fluid changed on any car.

More like... 

Fixed. 

[Andy B]

I've never owned a new car long enough or with a high enough mileage to have needed to have had the brake fluid changed on any car.

More like... 

Fixed. 

Brake fluid change is a time thing ..... not distance/mileage   

[STEMO]

I've never owned a new car long enough or with a high enough mileage to have needed to have had the brake fluid changed on any car.

More like... 

Fixed. 

Brake fluid change is a time thing ..... not distance/mileage   

Not for me it isn't 

[dave the builder]

Uncle Stemo don't use his brakes much anyway
the locals all move out of his way , out of FEAR respect 

[STEMO]

Uncle Stemo don't use his brakes much anyway
the locals all move out of his way , out of FEAR respect 

I've never been one for over-thinking things. Why bother with preventative maintenance when you chuck you car every few years? Someone else gets all my saved up problems. 

I might just run this one until it dies, though, so I can laugh when eff all goes wrong after years of neglect.

[STEMO]

Let's do oil changes now. Once a year regardless of mileage for me. 

[dave the builder]

Let's do oil changes now. Once a year regardless of mileage for me. 

shall I save you my nearly new (3,000 mile) oil , save you buying new   

astras don't throw up many issues till 100k even if abused
then sell it to Terry   

[STEMO]

Let's do oil changes now. Once a year regardless of mileage for me. 

shall I save you my nearly new (3,000 mile) oil , save you buying new   

astras don't throw up many issues till 100k even if abused
then sell it to Terry   

My only concern is the auto box, but it doesn't worry me enough to consider maintenance. 

[Raeturbo]

However the mot tester is not allowed to dismantle anything... would taking the cap off be dismantling?..   Brakes were probably crap on the rollers so he checked the fluid it’s very hydroscopic and the higher the dot dot 4 dot 5 the more it is. Remember the days of dot3.

Hygroscopic 

.             Aye, funny thing, that’s what I wrote first time then I  (thought) I corrected it

[Andy B]

However the mot tester is not allowed to dismantle anything... would taking the cap off be dismantling?..   Brakes were probably crap on the rollers so he checked the fluid it’s very hydroscopic and the higher the dot dot 4 dot 5 the more it is. Remember the days of dot3.

Hygroscopic 

.             Aye, funny thing, that’s what I wrote first time then I  (thought) I corrected it

 For years throughout my apprenticeship I was told it was hydroscopic ..... 

[New POD]

I hardly ever use the brakes in earnest.  Anticipation is great. I rarely go near hills either. 

[Marks DTM Calib]

Let's do oil changes now. Once a year regardless of mileage for me. 

shall I save you my nearly new (3,000 mile) oil , save you buying new   

astras don't throw up many issues till 100k even if abused
then sell it to Terry   

My only concern is the auto box, but it doesn't worry me enough to consider maintenance. 

No real worries there, its one of the best FWD autos there is

[Raeturbo]

I hardly ever use the brakes in earnest.  Anticipation is great. I rarely go near hills either.

                 Never been to earnest,  flat is it?

[dave the builder]

I hardly ever use the brakes in earnest.  Anticipation is great. I rarely go near hills either.

                 Never been to earnest,  flat is it?

testing your brakes should be done on a regular basis IMHO
in anticipation for that one time you do need to stop pronto

[Kevin Wood]

I hardly ever use the brakes in earnest.  Anticipation is great. I rarely go near hills either.

                 Never been to earnest,  flat is it?

testing your brakes should be done on a regular basis IMHO
in anticipation for that one time you do need to stop pronto

.. on the approach to every roundabout, for example.

[dave the builder]

I hardly ever use the brakes in earnest.  Anticipation is great. I rarely go near hills either.

                 Never been to earnest,  flat is it?

testing your brakes should be done on a regular basis IMHO
in anticipation for that one time you do need to stop pronto

.. on the approach to every roundabout, for example.

to clarify,"testing"  when safe to do so, at speed ,to a quick stop
lifting off the gogo pedal will inform the Devil in the gearbox to reduce the speed prior to roundabouts  with a light tap of the stop pedal to inform the tailgaters

[Doctor Gollum]

Clearly never enjoyed TB behind the wheel

[dave the builder]

Clearly never enjoyed TB behind the wheel

I'd imagine TB's brakes get tested "on a regular basis" 

[Doctor Gollum]

Tested is a stretch

[Kevin Wood]

Tested is a stretch

Tested .. to destruction sometimes.

[TheBoy]

All my cars have come equipped with brakes. May as well make use of 'em.

[Raeturbo]

Well if they’re there........

[dave the builder]

The "emergency brake" (handbrake ) on Omega was just parts left over from late 1980s Carltons ,senators
try using it above 2 MPH and it will just groan at you for disturbing it , or grenade to give your emergency stop attempt a metal grinding sound track 

[YZ250]

The "emergency brake" (handbrake ) on Omega was just parts left over from late 1980s Carltons ,senators
try using it above 2 MPH and it will just groan at you for disturbing it , or grenade to give your emergency stop attempt a metal grinding sound track 

On my first Omega I used the handbrake at speed .... to errr...... change direction. It worked as intended but it was an auto, and it's fair to say that an auto does not like being stopped instantly. I never did it again. 

[TheBoy]

The "emergency brake" (handbrake ) on Omega was just parts left over from late 1980s Carltons ,senators
try using it above 2 MPH and it will just groan at you for disturbing it , or grenade to give your emergency stop attempt a metal grinding sound track 

On my first Omega I used the handbrake at speed .... to errr...... change direction. It worked as intended but it was an auto, and it's fair to say that an auto does not like being stopped instantly. I never did it again. 

I never noticed the auto complaining too much - though obviously RWD - but never found an Omega with the same instant grab needed for such 3 point turns, it always ended up being a bit half arsed.

Now my last Rover, that was perfect on the handbrake. So much so, it was usually used to line the car up properly for carparks.  And in the 116k I had it, I never, ever touched the rear brakes on that, just tightened the cable once.