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Author Topic: P0170 Fuel trim bank 1 on a 2.2  (Read 1882 times)

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terry paget

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P0170 Fuel trim bank 1 on a 2.2
« on: 26 November 2014, 21:35:38 »

My son's 2.2 petrol manual saloon facelift had EML on, code reader read as above. Is there any cause for alarm? What does it mean; is is pre-cat lambda sensor not content?
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chrisgixer

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Re: P0170 Fuel trim bank 1 on a 2.2
« Reply #1 on: 26 November 2014, 21:45:06 »

Means the amount of fuel trim is beyond limits.

Fuel trim is a +/- of zero % so the ecu is seeing a need to adjust the fuel air mix to beyond the threshold. Which in the 3.2's is about 20% and the code is raised, for example.

Question is why?

Could be maf, could be lambda, could be air leak. In theory.
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terry paget

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Re: P0170 Fuel trim bank 1 on a 2.2
« Reply #2 on: 26 November 2014, 22:03:47 »

Thanks Chris. I have cancelled the code, I'll see how soon it reappears. Lambda sensor was replaced in June. Engine runs well, son has no complaints. Will advise any developments.
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chrisgixer

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Re: P0170 Fuel trim bank 1 on a 2.2
« Reply #3 on: 26 November 2014, 22:22:21 »

Thanks Chris. I have cancelled the code, I'll see how soon it reappears. Lambda sensor was replaced in June. Engine runs well, son has no complaints. Will advise any developments.

Yes it usually does run ok, as the fuel air mix is correct, or it thinks it is. The code relates to the amount of adjustment (trim) the ecu is applying, to do so.

And I wouldn't discount the lambda purely on that basis though. Live data is usually required.
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terry paget

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Re: P0170 Fuel trim bank 1 on a 2.2
« Reply #4 on: 26 November 2014, 23:24:14 »

Thanks Chris. I have cancelled the code, I'll see how soon it reappears. Lambda sensor was replaced in June. Engine runs well, son has no complaints. Will advise any developments.

Yes it usually does run ok, as the fuel air mix is correct, or it thinks it is. The code relates to the amount of adjustment (trim) the ecu is applying, to do so.

And I wouldn't discount the lambda purely on that basis though. Live data is usually required.
The throttle setting (my right foot) sets the air intake level, the MAF sensor measures its mass and the ECU then determines how much fuel to inject. The first lambda sensor analyses the exhaust oxygen content, advises the ECU, which trims the injected fuel volume. That is the trim we are talking about, right? The second lambda sensor checks the result post cat, but the ECU does not respond to its oxygen readings, so they have little purpose. When the trim necessary by the ECU to correct the first lambda value exceeds a preset amount - 20% ish - the fuel trim message is made and EML comes on. So, as you say, could be MAF sensor, could be 1st lambda sensor, could be air leak. If it's anything like the 3.2 engine, could be a brief excursion beyond bounds that occurs occasionally and is of no consequence

Thanks Chris, I hope I have that right. I shall take no action at the moment, and see what develops.
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Steve B

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Re: P0170 Fuel trim bank 1 on a 2.2
« Reply #5 on: 26 November 2014, 23:35:42 »

I was talking about the subject of code readers and comparing live data with TB lately.. I have a 2.2 Too... Have you got live data readings..

 We can Compare sizes  ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Marks DTM Calib

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Re: P0170 Fuel trim bank 1 on a 2.2
« Reply #6 on: 27 November 2014, 08:45:31 »

Thanks Chris. I have cancelled the code, I'll see how soon it reappears. Lambda sensor was replaced in June. Engine runs well, son has no complaints. Will advise any developments.

Yes it usually does run ok, as the fuel air mix is correct, or it thinks it is. The code relates to the amount of adjustment (trim) the ecu is applying, to do so.

And I wouldn't discount the lambda purely on that basis though. Live data is usually required.
The throttle setting (my right foot) sets the air intake level, the MAF sensor measures its mass and the ECU then determines how much fuel to inject. The first lambda sensor analyses the exhaust oxygen content, advises the ECU, which trims the injected fuel volume. That is the trim we are talking about, right? The second lambda sensor checks the result post cat, but the ECU does not respond to its oxygen readings, so they have little purpose. When the trim necessary by the ECU to correct the first lambda value exceeds a preset amount - 20% ish - the fuel trim message is made and EML comes on. So, as you say, could be MAF sensor, could be 1st lambda sensor, could be air leak. If it's anything like the 3.2 engine, could be a brief excursion beyond bounds that occurs occasionally and is of no consequence

Thanks Chris, I hope I have that right. I shall take no action at the moment, and see what develops.

No chance, the fuel trims take some time to adjust and they can go to quite an extreme before the code is raised.

My experience is that 02 sensors are bulletproof and more often than not replaced incorrectly (and sadly by cheap pattern tat).

The single most likely cause is the MAF sensor but live data will reveal all.

Other thing to be aware of is that resetting the codes resets the fuel trims......
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terry paget

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Re: P0170 Fuel trim bank 1 on a 2.2
« Reply #7 on: 27 November 2014, 08:48:25 »

I was talking about the subject of code readers and comparing live data with TB lately.. I have a 2.2 Too... Have you got live data readings..

 We can Compare sizes  ;D ;D ;D ;D
No. I have a cheap code reader, don't think it does live data. I have not got the car either. I returned it to my son, who became a father for the first time 10 days ago and does not take car matters seriously at the moment.

I have read on OOF that 3.2s put up similar codes, they are incurable and do not matter. My 3.2 does when the wife runs it, but does not when I run it. She used it for shopping, I do a 200 miles motorway run every Friday. The 3.2 romps through MOT emission checks with 'clean as a whistle' reports.
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Marks DTM Calib

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Re: P0170 Fuel trim bank 1 on a 2.2
« Reply #8 on: 27 November 2014, 08:52:09 »

I was talking about the subject of code readers and comparing live data with TB lately.. I have a 2.2 Too... Have you got live data readings..

 We can Compare sizes  ;D ;D ;D ;D
No. I have a cheap code reader, don't think it does live data. I have not got the car either. I returned it to my son, who became a father for the first time 10 days ago and does not take car matters seriously at the moment.

I have read on OOF that 3.2s put up similar codes, they are incurable and do not matter. My 3.2 does when the wife runs it, but does not when I run it. She used it for shopping, I do a 200 miles motorway run every Friday. The 3.2 romps through MOT emission checks with 'clean as a whistle' reports.

Different codes on the 2.6 and 3.2, these throw cat efficiency codes relating to tired pre cats, easy enough to fix by relocating the cat monitoring O2 sensor to after the main cats.
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steve6367

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Re: P0170 Fuel trim bank 1 on a 2.2
« Reply #9 on: 27 November 2014, 08:58:11 »

Thanks Chris. I have cancelled the code, I'll see how soon it reappears. Lambda sensor was replaced in June. Engine runs well, son has no complaints. Will advise any developments.

Yes it usually does run ok, as the fuel air mix is correct, or it thinks it is. The code relates to the amount of adjustment (trim) the ecu is applying, to do so.

And I wouldn't discount the lambda purely on that basis though. Live data is usually required.
The throttle setting (my right foot) sets the air intake level, the MAF sensor measures its mass and the ECU then determines how much fuel to inject. The first lambda sensor analyses the exhaust oxygen content, advises the ECU, which trims the injected fuel volume. That is the trim we are talking about, right? The second lambda sensor checks the result post cat, but the ECU does not respond to its oxygen readings, so they have little purpose. When the trim necessary by the ECU to correct the first lambda value exceeds a preset amount - 20% ish - the fuel trim message is made and EML comes on. So, as you say, could be MAF sensor, could be 1st lambda sensor, could be air leak. If it's anything like the 3.2 engine, could be a brief excursion beyond bounds that occurs occasionally and is of no consequence

Thanks Chris, I hope I have that right. I shall take no action at the moment, and see what develops.

No chance, the fuel trims take some time to adjust and they can go to quite an extreme before the code is raised.

My experience is that 02 sensors are bulletproof and more often than not replaced incorrectly (and sadly by cheap pattern tat).

The single most likely cause is the MAF sensor but live data will reveal all.

Other thing to be aware of is that resetting the codes resets the fuel trims......

I wish it did, but unfortunately on the 2.2 (I have 2 of them with this code currently) the trims stay where they are when codes cleared. In the end I have to have then reset with a Tech 2, so maybe other code readers can do the same but not mine.
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chrisgixer

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Re: P0170 Fuel trim bank 1 on a 2.2
« Reply #10 on: 27 November 2014, 10:13:36 »

I was talking about the subject of code readers and comparing live data with TB lately.. I have a 2.2 Too... Have you got live data readings..

 We can Compare sizes  ;D ;D ;D ;D
No. I have a cheap code reader, don't think it does live data. I have not got the car either. I returned it to my son, who became a father for the first time 10 days ago and does not take car matters seriously at the moment.

I have read on OOF that 3.2s put up similar codes, they are incurable and do not matter. My 3.2 does when the wife runs it, but does not when I run it. She used it for shopping, I do a 200 miles motorway run every Friday. The 3.2 romps through MOT emission checks with 'clean as a whistle' reports.

Different codes on the 2.6 and 3.2, these throw cat efficiency codes relating to tired pre cats, easy enough to fix by relocating the cat monitoring O2 sensor to after the main cats.
Pre cat codes, 0420(and 0430 with the extra bank on the v engines)
Fuel trim 0170 (0173 on the second bank on v engines)

.....iirc :)
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