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Author Topic: NCDC2013 gremlins ?  (Read 4876 times)

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VXL V6

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Re: NCDC2013 gremlins ?
« Reply #30 on: 17 February 2009, 15:10:51 »

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@ MDTM - So is it an 'easy' fit ?
@ VXL V6 - How many pennies would sir be looking for on the part ?

Think I paid about £30 ea for them. The UK stockist is slightly cheaper but looks to be out of stock at the moment.

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kevpuk

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Re: NCDC2013 gremlins ?
« Reply #31 on: 17 February 2009, 22:06:08 »

Update :  So I tried a regular CD in the single CD slot and it played perfectly - actually, it was a CD-R, so even more surprising.....took the disc out and put the Navteq back in.....found my position quickly, plotted a route home, and then it all got confused again :(

To me, this tends to suggest the disc is causing the problems, as the laser has no issue with a different CD ?
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TheBoy

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Re: NCDC2013 gremlins ?
« Reply #32 on: 17 February 2009, 22:21:41 »

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Update :  So I tried a regular CD in the single CD slot and it played perfectly - actually, it was a CD-R, so even more surprising.....took the disc out and put the Navteq back in.....found my position quickly, plotted a route home, and then it all got confused again :(

To me, this tends to suggest the disc is causing the problems, as the laser has no issue with a different CD ?
One thing reading audio, completely another to read data.

However, is it given you the wrong location, or just locking up?
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kevpuk

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Re: NCDC2013 gremlins ?
« Reply #33 on: 17 February 2009, 22:47:48 »

It seems to find the correct location and then gets confused/locks up....example this evening was it got my works car park location bang on and lasted about 30secs or so off campus before no longer really working

From then on, seems to not update location/map. Interestingly, when tapping into the diagnostic screens (per chrisgixer's tip of holding down Main etc. for 6+ secs) I can see continually updating satnav info. By this, I mean that pressing Info continues to show same N & W coordinates, but the diag screens are clearly continually updating.

Methinks this suggests GPS itself is working, corrrectly reading and the NCDC itself is processing, just the maps/navigation side of things is not functioning - therefore disc/reading of disc problems ?
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kevpuk

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Re: NCDC2013 gremlins ?
« Reply #34 on: 20 February 2009, 14:33:56 »

Booo - borrowed disc is no better :(

Each start, GPS locks happily onto correct position.....then does not move (service menu shows getting constant data feed, can see coordinates etc. updating).......
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dpanic88

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Re: NCDC2013 gremlins ?
« Reply #35 on: 20 February 2009, 17:09:15 »

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Quote
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Guess so....or is it a simple enough 'fit' for someone of an elctronics persuasion ? My dad is a whizz with all such things, and if it is a question of disconnecting one and connecting in a replacement, or a modicum of soldering he might be the guy ?

Needs some sort of alignment / tracking (so i'm guessing a 'scope is required).


Nope, not on this unit.....fit and go

hi :), sorry to jump in on this thread, but is the NCDC2015 sat laser the same as the 2013 :question - as mine occasionally throws the disk out 'just asks please insert nav disk' - its an original disk. if replacements are available - then its something to consider.

regards
rob
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VXL V6

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Re: NCDC2013 gremlins ?
« Reply #36 on: 20 February 2009, 17:15:28 »

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Quote
Quote
Quote
Guess so....or is it a simple enough 'fit' for someone of an elctronics persuasion ? My dad is a whizz with all such things, and if it is a question of disconnecting one and connecting in a replacement, or a modicum of soldering he might be the guy ?

Needs some sort of alignment / tracking (so i'm guessing a 'scope is required).


Nope, not on this unit.....fit and go

hi :), sorry to jump in on this thread, but is the NCDC2015 sat laser the same as the 2013 :question - as mine occasionally throws the disk out 'just asks please insert nav disk' - its an original disk. if replacements are available - then its something to consider.

regards
rob

Yep, same laser unit.
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Entwood

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Re: NCDC2013 gremlins ?
« Reply #37 on: 20 February 2009, 17:18:56 »

Mine tends to spit the disc out when cold .. as soon as it "warms up" .. 3 - 5 minutes .. it works fine ... no idea why .. but I live with it .. :)
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VXL V6

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Re: NCDC2013 gremlins ?
« Reply #38 on: 20 February 2009, 17:46:49 »

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Mine tends to spit the disc out when cold .. as soon as it "warms up" .. 3 - 5 minutes .. it works fine ... no idea why .. but I live with it .. :)

Laser can't focus. One of my units used to do this, using an original disk has stopped it doing this.
If it spits the disk out all the time then the only solution is to replace the laser.
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Dave DND

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Re: NCDC2013 gremlins ?
« Reply #39 on: 20 February 2009, 18:35:46 »

Recordable media seems to suffer more with misting up and condensation in the cold than original discs -

Someone will be along shortly I would think to explain the differences in manufacturing processes that cause this.

 ;)
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furrymunkey

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Re: NCDC2013 gremlins ?
« Reply #40 on: 20 February 2009, 19:26:34 »

Not my words.....googled it  :-*

Compact Discs are of two types - pressed CDs (or DVDs) and recordable CDRs (or DVD-Rs). Both uses completely different techniques for storing data and are also manufactured using different techniques.

Pressed CD

In a factory made CD, called pressed CD, data is stored in the form of zeros and ones in “pits” and “lands”. The surface of a pressed CD has a number of microscopic dents called “pits” which correspond to a zero and flat areas called “lands” which correspond to a one. If you were to view the CD surface with a powerful microscope you might actually able to see the pits and lands on the surface! A laser beam inside the CD drive scans the surface of the CD for these pits and lands. When the laser hits a land it reflects back directly to a photocell, present inside the CD player, which detects it and reads it as one. When the laser hits a pit it gets scattered everywhere with no or very few light returning back to the photocell. This is read as zero. Since these pits and lands are physically molded into the surface of the disc, pressed discs can last hundreds of years provided you do not damage or scratch the recorded surface. In a CD player, the only thing that touches the CD is a beam of light: the laser beam bounces harmlessly off the surface of the CD, so the disc itself should (in theory) never wear out.

Recordable CD-Rs

Recordable CD-Rs are different from pressed discs. CD-Rs does not contain pits and lands, instead its covered with a layer of organic dye. This dye has a special characteristic. When the disc is written, a high powered laser causes spots on the dye to turn black (hence the term  “burning”). When such a recorded CD is played on a CD player, the burned and the unburned areas which have differently reflectivity is seen by the photocell inside the CD player as pits and lands. When the laser beam encounters a dark spot, the light gets absorbed by the spot which is the same as the light being scattered by a pit. Hence this is read as zero. The unburned areas behave the same way as a land and are read as one.

Unfortunately, because the dye is a light-sensitive chemical, over time it will fade, just like the dye in a photograph fades with time. This can happen from the heat of the reading laser, from ambient light, and from chemical degradation in the dye and support media.

Hence recordable CDs often gets bad and data corrupted even though you have stored them with utmost care. Backing up your data on recordable DVDs isn’t a wise choice after all.
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Dave DND

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Re: NCDC2013 gremlins ?
« Reply #41 on: 20 February 2009, 19:44:36 »

Quote
Not my words.....googled it  :-*

Compact Discs are of two types - pressed CDs (or DVDs) and recordable CDRs (or DVD-Rs). Both uses completely different techniques for storing data and are also manufactured using different techniques.

Pressed CD

In a factory made CD, called pressed CD, data is stored in the form of zeros and ones in “pits” and “lands”. The surface of a pressed CD has a number of microscopic dents called “pits” which correspond to a zero and flat areas called “lands” which correspond to a one. If you were to view the CD surface with a powerful microscope you might actually able to see the pits and lands on the surface! A laser beam inside the CD drive scans the surface of the CD for these pits and lands. When the laser hits a land it reflects back directly to a photocell, present inside the CD player, which detects it and reads it as one. When the laser hits a pit it gets scattered everywhere with no or very few light returning back to the photocell. This is read as zero. Since these pits and lands are physically molded into the surface of the disc, pressed discs can last hundreds of years provided you do not damage or scratch the recorded surface. In a CD player, the only thing that touches the CD is a beam of light: the laser beam bounces harmlessly off the surface of the CD, so the disc itself should (in theory) never wear out.

Recordable CD-Rs

Recordable CD-Rs are different from pressed discs. CD-Rs does not contain pits and lands, instead its covered with a layer of organic dye. This dye has a special characteristic. When the disc is written, a high powered laser causes spots on the dye to turn black (hence the term  “burning”). When such a recorded CD is played on a CD player, the burned and the unburned areas which have differently reflectivity is seen by the photocell inside the CD player as pits and lands. When the laser beam encounters a dark spot, the light gets absorbed by the spot which is the same as the light being scattered by a pit. Hence this is read as zero. The unburned areas behave the same way as a land and are read as one.

Unfortunately, because the dye is a light-sensitive chemical, over time it will fade, just like the dye in a photograph fades with time. This can happen from the heat of the reading laser, from ambient light, and from chemical degradation in the dye and support media.

Hence recordable CDs often gets bad and data corrupted even though you have stored them with utmost care. Backing up your data on recordable DVDs isn’t a wise choice after all.

Good answer, but I was actually referring to the physical water marks caused by water ingress and condensation between the layers - can often give quite a milky appearance when left in the cold
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dpanic88

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Re: NCDC2013 gremlins ?
« Reply #42 on: 20 February 2009, 21:50:00 »

 
Quote
Quote
@ MDTM - So is it an 'easy' fit ?
@ VXL V6 - How many pennies would sir be looking for on the part ?

Think I paid about £30 ea for them. The UK stockist is slightly cheaper but looks to be out of stock at the moment.

Hi, good news that the laser is the same as the ndc2015 unit. Could you supply the link to the uk supplier or just post the part number - regards rob
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kevpuk

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Re: NCDC2013 gremlins ?
« Reply #43 on: 21 February 2009, 17:59:47 »

Booo ! Had the battery off today on failed attempt @ replacing the ABS/TC ECU ( >:() and still no navigation.....looks like a laser is next step.......
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VXL V6

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Re: NCDC2013 gremlins ?
« Reply #44 on: 21 February 2009, 19:12:34 »

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Booo ! Had the battery off today on failed attempt @ replacing the ABS/TC ECU ( >:() and still no navigation.....looks like a laser is next step.......

Is the unit spitting the disc out?
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