Topic: glowplugs not working (Read 4489 times)

andy4775 · « **on:** 02 January 2010, 22:30:39 »

I have a 2.2dti and the glowplugs are not working. As far as I know there are 5 things in the glowplug circiut that can malfunction.
1. 40 Amp fuse
2. glowplug
3. relay
4. timer
5. temperature sensor

Firstly am I correct with the above and can anyone tell me where the temperature sensor and the timer is please?

rustym95 · « **Reply #1 on:** 06 January 2010, 02:47:21 »

have you checked the plug its self out as they do go.

Dave DND · « **Reply #2 on:** 06 January 2010, 08:51:09 »

Got to agree with Rusty on this one

Check the glowplugs themselves - not uncommon to burn out after five years or so

If using a meter, should have a 12v supply to them and pull around 5~8 Amps each one

If testing them on a bench with a 12V supply, DO NOT BE TEMPTED TO TOUCH THEM to see if they are hot - if working, even a few seconds of voltage is enough to take a few layers of skin off. And if replacing them, always advisable to replace the full set, as if one has gone, the others will not be far behind - not expensive.

Andy B · « **Reply #3 on:** 06 January 2010, 09:03:01 »

Quote

.....
If testing them on a bench with a 12V supply, DO NOT BE TEMPTED TO TOUCH THEM to see if they are hot - if working, even a few seconds of voltage is enough to take a few layers of skin off. ........

Tch! As if anyone would be daft enough to touch them after they'd had power on them .......

Dave DND · « **Reply #4 on:** 06 January 2010, 09:33:41 »

Quote

Quote
.....
If testing them on a bench with a 12V supply, DO NOT BE TEMPTED TO TOUCH THEM to see if they are hot - if working, even a few seconds of voltage is enough to take a few layers of skin off. ........

Tch! As if anyone would be daft enough to touch them after they'd had power on them .......

I`m ashamed to say that I did, many years ago with a Golf one - briefly by accident though, applied voltage whilst holding with a pair of pliers to check current etc for no more than ten seconds. Put it down on the bench and then for some reason unknown to me, I turned around and then picked it up by hand to refit it.

BLOODY HELL THAT HURT !!!

Andy B · « **Reply #5 on:** 06 January 2010, 09:46:10 »

Quote

Quote
Quote
.....
If testing them on a bench with a 12V supply, DO NOT BE TEMPTED TO TOUCH THEM to see if they are hot - if working, even a few seconds of voltage is enough to take a few layers of skin off. ........

Tch! As if anyone would be daft enough to touch them after they'd had power on them .......

I`m ashamed to say that I did, many years ago with a Golf one - briefly by accident though, applied voltage whilst holding with a pair of pliers to check current etc for no more than ten seconds. Put it down on the bench and then for some reason unknown to me, I turned around and then picked it up by hand to refit it.

BLOODY HELL THAT HURT !!!

I don't even have the excuse that I did it by accident. I applied voltage to one for just a couple of seconds & purposely touched it to see if it had got hot!

It had!

Ouch!!

andy4775 · « **Reply #6 on:** 06 January 2010, 19:40:29 »

The plugs are new, could it be the glow plug control module?
The outside temperature sensor is also not working, would this be connected into the glow plugs at all?

rustym95 · « **Reply #7 on:** 06 January 2010, 20:30:51 »

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The plugs are new, could it be the glow plug control module?
The outside temperature sensor is also not working, would this be connected into the glow plugs at all?

there is a reley in the black box net to bat but cannot remeber if it is in there or colour, and out side temp sensor only dose that out side.

VXL V6 · « **Reply #8 on:** 07 January 2010, 09:03:21 »

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Quote
The plugs are new, could it be the glow plug control module?
The outside temperature sensor is also not working, would this be connected into the glow plugs at all?
there is a reley in the black box net to bat but cannot remeber if it is in there or colour, and out side temp sensor only dose that out side.

Outside temp sensor feeds the climate ECU with temp data as well.

andy4775 · « **Reply #9 on:** 08 January 2010, 22:02:57 »

Are we saying that the outside temperature sender supplies the ECU and effect starting from cold?

rustym95 · « **Reply #10 on:** 09 January 2010, 05:26:31 »

no he mean in side car climate ecu on models with climate control,

rustym95 · « **Reply #11 on:** 09 January 2010, 05:30:14 »

as dont know were you are, can you not see if some one near to you may help, its prob a wiring fault or a duf ecu but dont know, put were you are on and some one near may be able to help you.

andy4775 · « **Reply #12 on:** 09 January 2010, 11:22:53 »

Up to now I have put in new glow plugs, a new glow plug control module (relay) I have also checked that I have voltage to the glow plugs by pulling the glow plug caps off and putting a multimeter into cap and onto the top of the glow plug and I am getting 11 volts across each one when the light is on in the dash, so I think that side of it is ok. Correct me if I am wrong, does the ECU need the engine temperature from I think the ECT (engine coolant temperature sensor) is that right? And that determines how much diesel to put into the engine to start. This is the first diesel car I have had so I am researching on the internet and what good advice I get on this site as I go along. I am in Cleveland don't know if anyone is near and if it is the ECU thats gone how much are they? Sounds like they will cost an arm and a leg.

Dave DND · « **Reply #13 on:** 09 January 2010, 16:13:11 »

Quote

Up to now I have put in new glow plugs, a new glow plug control module (relay) I have also checked that I have voltage to the glow plugs by pulling the glow plug caps off and putting a multimeter into cap and onto the top of the glow plug and I am getting 11 volts across each one when the light is on in the dash, so I think that side of it is ok. Correct me if I am wrong, does the ECU need the engine temperature from I think the ECT (engine coolant temperature sensor) is that right? And that determines how much diesel to put into the engine to start. This is the first diesel car I have had so I am researching on the internet and what good advice I get on this site as I go along. I am in Cleveland don't know if anyone is near and if it is the ECU thats gone how much are they? Sounds like they will cost an arm and a leg.

You have voltage at the glowplug ? In which case, everything on the car appears to be working fine, and if the glowplugs are not getting hot, then the glowplugs themselves are at fault.

rustym95 · « **Reply #14 on:** 09 January 2010, 16:30:16 »

is 11v good? is that charged up?

andy4775 · « **Reply #15 on:** 09 January 2010, 16:30:29 »

The glow plugs are getting hot now but it is still not starting could the engine coolent temperature sensor have anything to do with it?

rustym95 · « **Reply #16 on:** 09 January 2010, 16:31:54 »

pull the MAF off and see if it starts.

Dave DND · « **Reply #17 on:** 09 January 2010, 16:34:17 »

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The glow plugs are getting hot now but it is still not starting could the engine coolent temperature sensor have anything to do with it?

If you have hot glowplugs, then your starting fault lies elsewhere.

11V at the glowplugs was not great though, enough to fire them up, but would suggest to me that the battery may be in a low charged state - would certainly not help matters !

andy4775 · « **Reply #18 on:** 09 January 2010, 17:46:51 »

Yes because it has 11 volt written on the side of the glow plug

andy4775 · « **Reply #19 on:** 09 January 2010, 17:49:20 »

pull the "maf" off, what is that and where will I find it? I just new to these diesel engines

rustym95 · « **Reply #20 on:** 09 January 2010, 17:54:33 »

mas air flow, black plug after the air filter,

andy4775 · « **Reply #21 on:** 09 January 2010, 18:09:49 »

when I pull the MAF off what will that do or tell me?

rustym95 · « **Reply #22 on:** 10 January 2010, 08:26:38 »

Maf is the temp control if working tells the ecu what the temp of the air is, if not dont tell the temp, just un plug and see.

andy4775 · « **Reply #23 on:** 10 January 2010, 09:30:34 »

ok will give it a try and get back to you.

Dave DND · « **Reply #24 on:** 10 January 2010, 09:38:41 »

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Yes because it has 11 volt written on the side of the glow plug

Ah ! Point Taken !
Most cars use 12V ones, and as I am not an Omega owner, I am not aware of some of the subtle differences - however, if there are mutliple glowplugs fitted, Some cars have one, some have one per cylinder, then its worth checking all of them to make sure that they are ALL working - failing that, I think have a listen to Rusty and go down the MAF route next

Any fault codes ?

andy4775 · « **Reply #25 on:** 10 January 2010, 10:28:44 »

No I unfortunately I don't have any codes Dave. The old plugs I took out were the original plugs and they were 11 volts also. I am just waiting for the battery to charge up and I will give it a go with this MAF disconnected (just at the plug).To take the MAF out (If I do have to change it) has some weird looking bolts, what do we need for them and any idea how much they are?

andy4775 · « **Reply #26 on:** 10 January 2010, 10:30:13 »

Dave I did check them all and they all had 11 volts to them.

rustym95 · « **Reply #27 on:** 10 January 2010, 10:31:36 »

what bolts on what, if you mean the MAF you need a new unit, they dont come seperate.That is if the MAF is a fault.

Dave DND · « **Reply #28 on:** 10 January 2010, 10:39:29 »

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Dave I did check them all and they all had 11 volts to them.

Personally, I would remove each one and check that they are getting hot, as its the only way to determine that each one is working.

From what Rusty is suggesting regarding the MAF - just unplug the black plug and see what happens.

I think at some stage you will need to have some codes read to see what is or isnt going on

andy4775 · « **Reply #29 on:** 10 January 2010, 11:53:33 »

Took the plug out of the MAF and it made no difference at all, Dave I will take each individual plug out to see if all of them are getting hot, how is the best way to check them?

Dave DND · « **Reply #30 on:** 10 January 2010, 11:57:37 »

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Took the plug out of the MAF and it made no difference at all, Dave I will take each individual plug out to see if all of them are getting hot, how is the best way to check them?

With voltage applied, a brief touch with a thermometer will quickly confirm correct operation - don`t worry about how hot they get - they either heat up or they don`t - its as simple as that.

rustym95 · « **Reply #31 on:** 10 January 2010, 14:04:37 »

Dave do they have the same cam sensor on them like mine, as the engine would turn over but not start, no codes came up but found that the cam sensor had gone, just a thought. mk1 cam sensor, fixed the cam then crank sensor was gone to but got them both replaced, then no codes.

andy4775 · « **Reply #32 on:** 10 January 2010, 14:19:50 »

The engine will start but it takes a lot of cranking to get it going.

charlie · « **Reply #33 on:** 10 January 2010, 14:43:40 »

is there a pre heater or something on the o/s front on the 2.2diesel.that smokes when working

Dave DND · « **Reply #34 on:** 10 January 2010, 15:01:47 »

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Dave do they have the same cam sensor on them like mine, as the engine would turn over but not start, no codes came up but found that the cam sensor had gone, just a thought. mk1 cam sensor, fixed the cam then crank sensor was gone to but got them both replaced, then no codes.

Rusty, Not that familiar with the Omega engine, however, now you mention it, I had a crank sensor on a VW Beetle Turbo fail on me last year, and when it finally did start, gave the impression of rough running like incorrect ignition avance but gave no fault codes either though VAG-COM.

I thought Tech2 was a little more advanced though, and should be able to confirm a crank sensor failure ?

Certainly wouldn`t rule it out though - good thinking !

:-?

andy4775 · « **Reply #35 on:** 10 January 2010, 19:04:54 »

When it starts it runs really well.

rustym95 · « **Reply #36 on:** 10 January 2010, 20:08:19 »

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When it starts it runs really well.

so it dose run then, check the fuel pressure, if the pump is low there is not enough pressure to run. and a faulty cam or crank can somtimes take it's time to go, then the ecu turns off start.

andy4775 · « **Reply #37 on:** 11 January 2010, 10:07:21 »

Rusty, how can I check the fuel pump pressure ?

rustym95 · « **Reply #38 on:** 11 January 2010, 10:16:08 »

not that formil with engine but there should be a valve on the injector line will have a tyer cap on it need a cloth and push in the valve.

rustym95 · « **Reply #39 on:** 11 January 2010, 10:25:32 »

found a pic of it its on fuel line has a plactic cap on with 13m i think, valve in side.

andy4775 · « **Reply #40 on:** 11 January 2010, 12:03:03 »

I have found it Rusty, but don't know what I am doing it for, what will this show us Rusty.

rustym95 · « **Reply #41 on:** 11 January 2010, 13:09:05 »

if the fuel is under pressure, how meany turns dose it take to start engine?

andy4775 · « **Reply #42 on:** 11 January 2010, 14:27:23 »

Rusty it depends how cold it is, if its brass monkey weather like we've had, when it's really bad it wont fire (and l have flattened the battery) but usually about 6-8 times on an average cold morning.

rustym95 · « **Reply #43 on:** 11 January 2010, 14:32:07 »

it may be the fuel heater then pe-heats the fuel before getting to the glow plugs, can try this turn key to 2 leave for a minute then try it, bit longer than normal to start, there is some one on here that had fixed his but cannot remember the post. my old car had one and you have to give it a little time to work

Dave DND · « **Reply #44 on:** 11 January 2010, 14:35:51 »

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it may be the fuel heater then pe-heats the fuel before getting to the glow plugs, can try this turn key to 2 leave for a minute then try it, bit longer than normal to start, there is some one on here that had fixed his but cannot remember the post. my old car had one and you have to give it a little time to work

That used to be the way to start many diesels a few years ago, turn the ign on so that the glow plug light was lit, and wait 30 secs before cranking.

Is the fuel pre-heater similar to a glowplug then ?

rustym95 · « **Reply #45 on:** 11 January 2010, 14:39:32 »

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it may be the fuel heater then pe-heats the fuel before getting to the glow plugs, can try this turn key to 2 leave for a minute then try it, bit longer than normal to start, there is some one on here that had fixed his but cannot remember the post. my old car had one and you have to give it a little time to work

That used to be the way to start many diesels a few years ago, turn the ign on so that the glow plug light was lit, and wait 30 secs before cranking.

Is the fuel pre-heater similar to a glowplug then ?

no its a coil go's round fuel line in a case usually on the side of the fule systerm made from alloy will have a 2 pin pluge. only warm the fuel untill ecu tells it to turn off.

rustym95 · « **Reply #46 on:** 11 January 2010, 14:41:52 »

they can go but they a pain to replace as it is in side the housing. best just to give it more time for the glow plugs to heat up. with out cranking the engine.

andy4775 · « **Reply #47 on:** 11 January 2010, 16:14:59 »

I have looked on the engine wiring diagram (Y22DTH) and there is a relay K80 called filter heating and something U12 filter heating. Could this be something to do with the preheating!!

rustym95 · « **Reply #48 on:** 11 January 2010, 18:38:47 »

it could be but i dont have manual for a 2.2td, check and see if there is volts on the relay, as for the heater they are in side the throttle housing, and if you start to try and get it out to fix you prob damage somthing else.

andy4775 · « **Reply #49 on:** 12 January 2010, 09:06:21 »

Going to start the car time this morning but may be give it 4 goes on the glowplugs, I know it not as cold this morning but will get back to you Rusty.

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Author Topic: glowplugs not working (Read 4489 times)