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[Sir Tigger KC]

If the 'Establishment' is urging us to take a course of action then it should be everyone's duty to do exactly the opposite! 

They aren't even urging us...

How can you say that?    What do you think 'Project Fear' is all about? 

noone gives a monkeys left gonad if holidays do or don't rise by £200, and if the holiday already costs £3,000, what's another £200.

You're right, but what about those paying £400 for their 10 days in Majorca or whichever cheap and cheerful EU destination?  Then a £230 increase is significant.    BUT as you rightly say Al, Mr Cameron won't give us the specifics...    I suspect he is alluding to the probable drop in the value of Sterling in the event of Brexit, however I also suspect that once the markets realise that the world hasn't ended, then Sterling would recover. 

[ted_one]

I'm looking forward to not seeing the incessant convoys of foreign HGV's making driving around the M25 quite scary at times,because..... if we come out of the E.U they will disappear overnight as no one will be selling/sending their goods here,won't they?.....they will won't they?? of course they bloody well won't

[TheBoy]

I think its naïve to think, if we leave, we'll be in charge of our own destinys. Probably less so, as we have to negotiate with everyone, from a position of weakness an insignificant island.

[Viral_Jim]

You'll forgive me for disagreeing. In addition to my comment above regarding Governments' financial interest in house prices, the continual increase in house prices above the rate of wage increases has pushed the opportunity for younger prospective buyers ever further into their future.

Always. It makes for interesting discussion .

Do you not think that supply and demand plays a bigger part here? Ie, we aren't , building  enough houses in areas where people want to live, and haven't been for the last 20yrs. Housing is a resource which (by percentage) becomes rarer year on year, so of course its price will rise more than a typical basket of goods (which are not becoming rarer).

A slump in house prices alone won't address the issue of people not being able to afford to buy. Only an increase in supply will do that. Developers are the biggest barrier to a change in the housing market supply. Given they have thousands of acres land banked to be developed as and when they choose. A slump in house prices (and therefore the profit they can make per unit) is hardly going to induce them to build more houses.

As someone who for some years rented out property, I can also assure you that rents reflect the price of the property, ergo, Lower house prices = Lower rents.
I commend the cartoon in today's Times, page 4.

Yes, they do, but the correlation is not direct. Otherwise rental yields for a given type/size of house would be comparable across the country, They aren't. Yes rents would fall a bit, but not in correlation unless you can address the supply-side of the equation.

[Sir Tigger KC]

I think its naïve to think, if we leave, we'll be in charge of our own destinys. Probably less so, as we have to negotiate with everyone, from a position of weakness an insignificant island.

Hmmm an insignificant island that happens to have the 5th largest economy in the world, is a permanent member of the UN Security Council, a member of the G8 and G20, a founding member of the IMF, World Bank, United Nations and NATO to name a few and has observer status or non-region membership of other regional organisations such as the Arctic Council, Asia Development Bank and Africa Development Bank. 

So how un-insignificant does a country have to be to make it's own way in the world as a independent democratic sovereign nation?   

[TheBoy]

Easy solution to house prices - shoot more people.  That will reduce demand.

TB for President of the UK!

[BazaJT]

The thing that bothers me about staying in is that if we do then I can't see how we can avoid becoming a part of a federal state of Europe.Coming out will not be an easy road,but trade,holidays and all the rest will continue,it did for a couple of centuries before the EU,so it won't just come to a grinding halt.As an aside my polling card arrived today.

[Nick W]

Easy solution to house prices - shoot more people.  That will reduce demand.

TB for President of the UK!

You get my vote.
But we need some checks and balances, so you can buy your own ammunition

[TheBoy]

Easy solution to house prices - shoot more people.  That will reduce demand.

TB for President of the UK!

You get my vote.
But we need some checks and balances, so you can buy your own ammunition

That could prove expensive

[05omegav6]

Easy solution to house prices - shoot more people.  That will reduce demand.

TB for President of the UK!

You get my vote.
But we need some checks and balances, so you can buy your own ammunition

That could prove expensive

When the threat of unemployment strikes, all the people who've been flooding the place from the far reaches will soon head home, freeing up both jobs and property... double bonus

Anyone that's left, gets to stand in a straight line for you to shoot several at a time... a hundred grain 45 fmj should manage 10 at a time if they stand close.

[Shackeng]

You'll forgive me for disagreeing. In addition to my comment above regarding Governments' financial interest in house prices, the continual increase in house prices above the rate of wage increases has pushed the opportunity for younger prospective buyers ever further into their future.

Always. It makes for interesting discussion .

Do you not think that supply and demand plays a bigger part here? Ie, we aren't , building  enough houses in areas where people want to live, and haven't been for the last 20yrs. Housing is a resource which (by percentage) becomes rarer year on year, so of course its price will rise more than a typical basket of goods (which are not becoming rarer).

A slump in house prices alone won't address the issue of people not being able to afford to buy. Only an increase in supply will do that. Developers are the biggest barrier to a change in the housing market supply. Given they have thousands of acres land banked to be developed as and when they choose. A slump in house prices (and therefore the profit they can make per unit) is hardly going to induce them to build more houses.

As someone who for some years rented out property, I can also assure you that rents reflect the price of the property, ergo, Lower house prices = Lower rents.
I commend the cartoon in today's Times, page 4.

Yes, they do, but the correlation is not direct. Otherwise rental yields for a given type/size of house would be comparable across the country, They aren't. Yes rents would fall a bit, but not in correlation unless you can address the supply-side of the equation.

I cannot argue with the premise that the shortage of property pushes up prices, and perhaps the 25% increase in the UK population since 1960 may also have some effect on the failure to keep up with demand. However none of that undermines my argument that these increases, for whatever reason, are not good for the majority of, as politicians like to emote, "hard working people".
As regards rental yields, I don't believe I argued that these were level across the UK, merely that rents are related to house prices.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Easy solution to house prices - shoot more people.  That will reduce demand.

TB for President of the UK!

I can see you becoming a Lib Dem and then marrying Shami Chakrabarti.

[Rods2]

The choice is very simple: Do you want to be governed by politicians you can vote out of office when they do a bad job or by those that are appointed and you can't regardless on how good or bad they are or what they impose on the country? Ones a democracy and the other a dictatorship. Your choice on the 23rd of June on who is going to govern you. EU law has supremacy at the moment, so when push comes to shove, they always win.

The dictatorship have already shown that any democratically town hall that goes beyond its status gets removed until they agree to tow the line ask, Greece and Italy.

The rise of far left and right parties in EU countries will continue as a reaction to the lack of democracy at the centre of decision making. Political accountability always make extremes more appealing. The far left and right coalition wreaking ruling Greece are a classic case.

The insurmountable problems with the Euro have not been fixed, they just kick the can down the road hoping something will turn up. Don't worry things will, but for the worse. Greece is broke again and needs another bailout and we will continue to get dragged in with our wallets with this mess. Portugal is broke, Italy is broke and France is not far away from broke. What they need is growth which they won't get with the fundamental Euro problems and rigid EU bureaucracy. Even Germany is now struggling with growth and with their export based economy, the classic signs of an export crisis is now on the horizon with falling profits, where prices are cut to keep volumes up. The other great exporting countries, Japan and now China started like this. As the BRICS have grown Western countries percentage of world trade has dropped but the EU block has declined twice as fast as the US, we are going relatively broke faster. Stupid laws, rigid rules and excessively bureaucracy have a price and economic growth is always the first and most telling causality.

Unlike the US and to a lessor extent the UK the majority of the EU countries banks have not written off or down their bad and non-performing debts, so expect more banking problems like Deutsche Bank's recently, where there are now questions over whether it will survive. As the European economic problems get worse I'm sure yours and mine 'joint and several' wallets will help the ECB as every little helps, unless we are no longer a member of this expensive, dysfunctional club of course.

[TheBoy]

Easy solution to house prices - shoot more people.  That will reduce demand.

TB for President of the UK!

I can see you becoming a Lib Dem and then marrying Shami Chakrabarti.

Not before you've pulled your foreskin up over your head to keep your ears warm....

She would be first on list for those scheduled for termination...  ...and not just because she's an ugly bint.  Poxy, ugly, stupid, do-gooder bitch is wasting our oxygen supply 

[2boxerdogs]

Have spoken with several friends & colleagues and have not had anybody say stay in, what I found most surprising is we have had a lot of new officers start in the service recently & I quite expected a stay in from some of them but not one amongst them. The scare tactics being used by the stay in crowd are beginning  piss a lot of people off.