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[TheBoy]

When you paperclip it, if you get a 19, it is defo crank sensor. If you get a 31, then its less conclusive.

For those that are interested, if the ECU has a stored 19 (and ECU still considers this 19 to be relevent), this suppresses the 31 you would expect if car is not running...

[Admin]

Have to disagree there Jaime.  :-/

I have always found code 31 = crank sensor issues as this is the code for "no crank sensor signal received (eg break inside cable).

On the other hand I find code 19 if the check is done with just the igntion on. This being the signal for "incorrect crank sensor signal". It signifies that the sensor is returning a signal (albeit not the correct one as the crank is not moving).

[TheBoy]

Have to disagree there Jaime.  :-/

I have always found code 31 = crank sensor issues as this is the code for "no crank sensor signal received (eg break inside cable).

On the other hand I find code 19 if the check is done with just the igntion on. This being the signal for "incorrect crank sensor signal". It signifies that the sensor is returning a signal (albeit not the correct one as the crank is not moving).

What part do you disagree with? 19 being defo crank sensor failure (as the signal received is incorrect) or the 31 being less conclusive?

The 31 is less conclusive, as if the car is non starter (as is in this case), its not possible to do with engine running...

[Admin]

19 is not a code I have found to show the sensor has failed.
By its very description it is showing there is a signal being received (albeit an incorrect position) from the sensor.

However 31 is the code produced when no signal is received from the sensor (ie. when it has failed).

So my view is (based on my experience):

19= nothing to worry about. Spurious code given when codes pulled without engine running.

31=Crank sensor problems. Either dead sensor, or sensor on way out.

Basically the opposite view to you.  

I wonder if the omnipotent one would care to rule on this?  

[bob.dent]

When my crankcase sensor went, I experienced same symptoms - firing up perfectly one day, then took a couple of attempts the day after, then nothing the following day. One easy way to narrow it down is to try bump or tow starting it. If it fires straight away as mine did, it will almost certainly be the crankcase sensor.

[Kev]

Any news?

Do you have any stored fault codes for us yet, or have you got the car running?  

[TheBoy]

19 is not a code I have found to show the sensor has failed.
By its very description it is showing there is a signal being received (albeit an incorrect position) from the sensor.

However 31 is the code produced when no signal is received from the sensor (ie. when it has failed).

So my view is (based on my experience):

19= nothing to worry about. Spurious code given when codes pulled without engine running.

31=Crank sensor problems. Either dead sensor, or sensor on way out.

Basically the opposite view to you.  

I wonder if the omnipotent one would care to rule on this?  

If you get a 19, you definately have a problem - the ECU has received 1 good rotation of engine, but now cannot make sense of the signal.

31 means the ECU has not received a good rotation since ignition on and that there is no stored 19, hence why you should get a 31 on a healthy engine that is not running.

If you get a 19 with engine off, it is because the ECU has a stored 19 code...  ...which means the sensor has failed...

A 31 with engine off is normal, as ECU hasn't yet seen rotation of crank, but could feasibly be a failed sensor not giving any signal at all, hence why a 31 is non conclusive on a car that won't start.



Who's correct? Me or LB66?  I'm sure someone will start a poll...

[Kev]

Who's correct? Me or LB66?  I'm sure someone will start a poll...

You've certainly put forward a better case, but alas, i've learned my lesson.    

[sophos9]

Hey all.... thanks for the help! The car does not start...  

So, I check fuse no. 9 - all good, swopped the relays, no petrol out and checked voltage - nothing. Paperclip test revealed a 31 however it would do wouldnt it...  

Mark, its a 1997 with RF...?

I have ordered a crank sensor and seal from Autovaux, should be here tomorrow

Now....

Can you guys help with how to change it? What I'm really looking for is what tools will I need, how to change etc etc

Thanks for all the help, hopefully someone can explain how to change it to wrap this thread up  

[TheBoy]

Don't follow original cable route - its flawed.

Replace sensor (torx screwdrive needed, can't remember size)
route wire up near ABS unit (cable tie it) then up to connector at rear of plenum (may need to remove scuttle)...

[sophos9]

So it plugs into a multiplug or summin?

So its pretty simple then....? I can do simple me  

[TheBoy]

aye, one of the multiplugs at back of plenum...

[sophos9]

Nothing else to look out for then? Not gonna end up with a mouthfull of oil am I

Oh, and is it easier to take the scuttle off or remove the plenum? Had the plenum off a few times but never touched the scuttle....?

NO FLAMING  

[MikeDundee]

Sounds like relay to me, i had a problem last year, where was just cutting out when stopped at junctions, called AA, FOUND NOTHIN, was on hols at the time just done 2k touring scotland, climbing, drinking etc.,, Luckily was in Dundee at the time it happened and not in the sticks of scotland, next to hotel was VX garage, got them tow it back to hotel. Called VX dealer in london on the Monday morning, said it was fuel relay, stuck it into VX dundee, was the fule relay, cost £150 fitted, parts etc.. Still had to drive back to london, so could'nt risk it cutting on the way back.  

[TheBoy]

removing plenum should be ok.

shouldn't lose any oil.