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Author Topic: Lozzys Omega- The Sentinal Sound System Build  (Read 32725 times)

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lozzy

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Re: Lozzys Omega- The Sentinal Sound System Build
« Reply #90 on: 20 July 2011, 17:17:24 »

it should be i am aiming for 155db as a peak

the kit list has grown since then il update it

Source And signal Processors
Alpine 9887r Full speed ipod Head unit
Audio Control Epic Center Bass Restorer
Auto Leads Bass controler
4 Vibe Delta Box Line Drivers

Speaker Components
8 JBL 4Inch Coaxial - These are going in the A pillars
8 Hertz SPL Show Tweeters
14 Hertz SPL Show Mid Range Drivers
Hopefully the same behind the rear windows 
48 JBL GT4 10inch Subwoofers
4 JBL GT5 8 inch Coaxials

Amplification Front Speakers
10 JBL 75.2 2 channel amplifiers 150wrms x2
8 JBL 75.4 4 channel Amplifiers 150wrms x4

Amplification Bass

6 Sundown Audio 1500AZ Mono Amplifiers around 2000wrms at 13V!

Power Supply
2 250a alternators
0 AWG Cabling
4 AWG Cabling
8 AWG Cabling
Brax volt Meter
12 V AGM batterie system still to be decided

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lozzy

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Re: Lozzys Omega- The Sentinal Sound System Build
« Reply #91 on: 02 December 2011, 08:57:33 »

Well A little update I have some new Shoes for the omega

irmscher GT Stars 19" wrapped in some 235 35 19 inch goodness







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Re: Lozzys Omega- The Sentinal Sound System Build
« Reply #92 on: 02 December 2011, 10:33:13 »

Like the Wheels! Didn't know that Irmscher did 'em! Are they still made?

You 've just sent me some centre caps from your eBay shop, I'd guess.

When do you think you'll be able to bang out some choons?

Nice one!

Matthew

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lozzy

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Re: Lozzys Omega- The Sentinal Sound System Build
« Reply #93 on: 02 December 2011, 11:57:09 »

hi matthew yes that would be me!

these are the GT stars they are a set from a vectra C  we do still have a couple of sets left in germany

im aiming for next year forst show season but my time has been very limited at present to get out there and work on the car
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x25dt

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Re: Lozzys Omega- The Sentinal Sound System Build
« Reply #94 on: 07 December 2011, 12:01:13 »

nice set of wheels :y
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Re: Lozzys Omega- The Sentinal Sound System Build
« Reply #95 on: 16 December 2011, 03:41:23 »

Just read this topic and and all i can say is WOW :y :y :y Love the wheels too. That is gonna be one mean ass kickin mig when its finished. Cant wait to see more posts and pics. Well done Lozzy  ::) :y
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Re: Lozzys Omega- The Sentinal Sound System Build
« Reply #96 on: 17 December 2011, 03:29:28 »

i have to ask, (although i may regret doing so),   have you actually designed the speaker array and enclosure "properly"  taking account of the acoustic properties,  or is it more of an exercise is seeing how many drivers can be fitted in an omega??


and the 155dB target,  how is that measured?   at what distance, in which direction?   or is it inside the vehicle??, is it A weighted, C weighted, or what?? is it a single measurement , or an average of several?? 

are there rules governing the source material and signal path??   are you allowed fancy DSP trickery to set up the signal feeds to the amps, ?

what i'm getting at is that there are many ways to maximise efficiency, and achieve specific measured SPL targets,  and i'm wondering if you've got them all at your disposal ....     because there are also many ways of wasting energy counter productively.....     


i don't build stupidly loud in car systems.....   but I do build recording studios, and consult for a number of related high end speaker manufacturers.....    amongst other things....   :D




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lozzy

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Re: Lozzys Omega- The Sentinal Sound System Build
« Reply #97 on: 21 December 2011, 09:12:25 »

i like being asked questions it works out my knowledge

we have a program which we use called bass box pro this allows us to model the response from the speakers then we can tweak and tune to we have a frequency response curve to our liking my aim would be to achieve a flat response from 20-50hz between 1-3 DB per frequency the enclosure I’m using is a series tuned band pass which in a car environment works very well

there will be a basic sound stage in the car with mid and highs at head height for daily listening but it has been mainly an exercise to cram as many in for sheer output  in Bass Mid and High Frequency responces


how the SPL is measured i the competition format i compete in is across a frequency range 20hz 25hz 30hz 40hz and the peak frequency spl this is then averaged

this is measured at the headrest and also at the windscreen with a sensor called a termlab

Source material is set by a disc or USB produced by the competition promoter at a 0DB recording so all is fair and there no boosting of frequencies

I see what you mean about maximising efficiency I’ve had a few setups previously with Massive Voice Coiled drivers in a clit dual 3inch drivers rated at 5000Wrms each which is an insane amount of power to put in to a speaker i fed them with 2000wrms each  it did get fairly loud achieved 150db at a peak each time i played it the car got a little louder   





But there is a drawback to this ok a clit is small so it did get loud but it wasn’t as efficient as my Audi set up and the play time was alot less around half Hour! when you spend X amount on a system i would like to play as long as i like but the driver would get very hot because as the power supply drops off as the batteries flatten you start to induce clip and square waves

My audi setup this was 10 low power drivers 250wrms rated each and a 1.5inch voice coil the total power for this system was 2400wrms a fraction on my clit  this peaked at 149Db 1 Db less than the clit but the advantage with this system was the play time! I could play all day and not have to worry about blowing a £1500 Speaker with there was no heat issue as the power supply was sufficient to power the system, I went to Mudded Nationals show with a local car club I had the car on a switching power supply on a genny and played from 9am till about 6PM I was very surprised that nothing let go!

my Audi System



I want the same from this system but on a larger scale and louder scale if im honest i will properly be just as loud with 32 woofers but 48 looks more impressive on the plus side compared to my clit there is 48 coils to share the power and dissipate the heat compared to 4 coils in my clit  ;D then you also have cone area which makes achieving the target SPL a little easier I have the equivalent cone area of 15 18 inch subs if i was to do 15 18s i would need a transit van for it to work at its best lol

i think i have gone on a bit lol

but please ask me more questions i could talk about speakers all day
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Re: Lozzys Omega- The Sentinal Sound System Build
« Reply #98 on: 21 December 2011, 10:50:16 »

As could I....

;)


I ask, because you can calculate an awful lot of clever stuff if you know how...      and including the acoustic response field of the environment (in this case a car) and it's modal properties, can help you achieve higher measurement numbers through precise placement relationships...

for example,  in a simple model,  of an average domestic living room,   it's common to have modal response variations of the space itself, of as much as ±40dB, at assorted frequencies....    .

this is caused by a phenomenon commonly called (in english, not in geeklish) Standing Waves.

(more properly called modal room response )

these can be calculated quite accurately....

what they effectively do is vary the measured SPL at different frequencies, and different spatial points around the space, by interfering with it , either destructively ( causing a low point, ) or constructively, (causing  a high point) ,

it's the reason bass sounds different when you're sat in different seats in a room....   or moving around the room.... 

careful measurement of the acoustic of the environment to be used (in this case a specific  car)  , can give a clue as to how best to arrange tthe driver arrays to make most use of this phenomenon, to give pressure maxima at the required measurement points... 




THEN there's the issue of inter-driver phase coherence.


if you have an array of drivers spread out over a distance,  moving away from you...   ,  say at n+ zero, 1 foot, 2foot, 3 foot,....    and you feed them all a signal at the same moment (either as a simple parallel feed to multiple amplifiers, or parallel load across one amplifier,  )  then the spl at the rest point  will not be as high and even spread as it could be.....

because the pressure waves from the drivers are arriving spread across time, and so interfering with each other....   , in the stated example, they'd arrive at approximately 1 millisecond intervals.... 

this spreads transient arrival, reducing the maximum SPL of the transient,  as well as causing phase cancellation...


in that instance,  the highest SPL reading would be achieved by feeding the furthest driver first, and then inserting a 1 millisecond delay before the next nearest driver, and then a 2 millisecond delay to the next one, and so on....

this way, the pressure wave maxima is constructively added to as it approaches the measurement point.


this technique is commonly used in Large venue PA systems for example,   where there are satellite arrays of speakers , say halfway down the length of the hall....   to which the feed is delayed , so that they make their output propagate in sync with the arrival of sound coming from the front of the venue....   thus reinforcing it.... and not making it sound like an echo....

it is however,  direction specific....   so, it can be calculated and implemented to make the system measure louder ONLY in one direction.... 

the point being,  such an arrangement would give a higher measured SPL in the front of the vehicle....   ...   from drivers arranged in the rear of the vehicle...    (but conversely, would somewhat reduce the level and screw with the quality of sound at the rear of the vehicle)


then there's the questions of axial response , and wave interactions between drivers....


but i'll leave those for another time... 


here's my latest set of toys....   the room at mix position has a flat frequency response from 18Hz, to 18KHz,  and is only 5dB down at 5 Hz and 22KHz.





(the lower ones are about £13k,  the upper ones about £2.7K (with their subs, which you can;t see in the picture) ... so not for the faint hearted.....   ;)  )



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lozzy

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Re: Lozzys Omega- The Sentinal Sound System Build
« Reply #99 on: 13 January 2012, 11:08:49 »

i bet they sound pretty incredibal in car audio we kill for a responce like that

a standing wave is alway going to be a problem in a car audio install its worst place for a audio refrence point of view im not to hot on calculating standing waves lol thats at the next level 

but we do have cabin gain which works in our favour

i know a little more about phase in a mutiple speaker instal our rule of the thumb is no more than 3 speakers deep but 2 is better because of the loading on the speaker in a tunnel the further back you go the more the pressure increases a recent install built last year in an astro the preasure on the back subs turned them inside out! this can be reduced by bringing  the port in to the enclosure to even the load out also in regards in output the 3rd row will out put less than the 1st row you can even it out with time alignment and phase switching most higher end mono amps in the car audio world

but thats about as far as my knowledge goes on phase and standing waves  something i should learn more about
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andyc

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Re: Lozzys Omega- The Sentinal Sound System Build
« Reply #100 on: 18 January 2012, 17:49:41 »

Thats one hell of a set up Lozzy but i have to ask. will you be putting proper sounds through it.

For example, what about a bit of AC/DC, Led Zeplin or a bit of Floyd :) :) :) 

Good luck with it

Andy
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omega3000

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Re: Lozzys Omega- The Sentinal Sound System Build
« Reply #101 on: 18 January 2012, 18:47:29 »

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AC/DC, Led Zeplin or a bit of Floyd
Excellent  :y

Still amazed at the condition of this car , no rust ...has it been re sprayed  :y
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Re: Lozzys Omega- The Sentinal Sound System Build
« Reply #102 on: 18 January 2012, 19:06:04 »

Thats one hell of a set up Lozzy but i have to ask. will you be putting proper sounds through it.

For example, what about a bit of AC/DC, Led Zeplin or a bit of Floyd :) :) :) 

Good luck with it

Andy
  Yep,   i agree with the music selection... ;D :y
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Re: Lozzys Omega- The Sentinal Sound System Build
« Reply #103 on: 18 January 2012, 19:27:02 »

Quote
AC/DC, Led Zeplin or a bit of Floyd
Excellent  :y

Still amazed at the condition of this car , no rust ...has it been re sprayed  :y

I don't know about that mate, the bottom of the driver's door is looking a bit on the soft side.  :(
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omega3000

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Re: Lozzys Omega- The Sentinal Sound System Build
« Reply #104 on: 18 January 2012, 19:41:02 »

Quote
bit on the soft side. [

I was looking at the rear arches where most seem to go but these look pretty good  :y  ;) :y
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