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[Lizzie_Zoom]

It is not a good idea in my opinion.

Apart from the panic that will be caused when someone breaks down and has nowhere to go, what will the emergency services use to reach incidents when all lanes are blocked with held up traffic?  They all often have to use the hard shoulder when currently all running lanes are congested.

In the incidents I have seen, they change the signs from the previous junction to show the hard shoulder as closed, the traffic then moves off and around the blockage and the hard shoulder becomes free for service use.

It is a very highly monitored system, for this reason it has to be Lizzie. It's not a case of open the lane to traffic and leave it un attended, there's CCTV and god knows what else to close the lane again if there's a hard shoulder incident.

The intensive monitoring obviously includes varying speed limits and speed cameras on the stretches involved. It's clearly not a cheap system, but it does work. Ime.

Thanks Chris, and Mark. If that is the case then perhaps it can work, but I still have reservations especially as I have heard police officers voicing their professional concerns

That's interesting, what did they say?

Quite simply without that hard shoulder it will cause them problems when going past miles of stationery traffic due to an incident on a very busy motorway, and the obvious one of concern over public, and their own safety, when a vehicle breaks down or they need to bring a motorist to a halt.  Hard shoulders give everyone just minutes of safe refuge, but without them it will be much worse!   

[hotel21]

It is my understanding that the method of construction/wearing properties of the hard shoulder is significantly less than standard motorway surface.  I have seen that held out somewhat by rip out/replacement in my area where the previous hard shoulder is now a running lane.

I also feel that the conversion of hard shoulder to running lane will take the great British public some time to get used to. 

And I agree with Liz' police contacts.  It will restrict emergency vehicle access to loci at times of dire need.  I have attempted the Moses thing numerous times through multi lane stationary traffic and it is, at best, 'challenging'.  Indeed, on one occasion, cost the Police Authority the replacement of the side of a 5 series (rear wing, both doors and front wing) where an overenthusiastic bin lorry driver put acres of hard lock on whilst stationary then moved off whist I was sat stationary on his rear quarter.  The bin lifting gear tin openered the side of the car, much to my shifts amusement....

[chrisgixer]

I take some comfort from the car model

[cleggy]

It is not a good idea in my opinion.

Apart from the panic that will be caused when someone breaks down and has nowhere to go, what will the emergency services use to reach incidents when all lanes are blocked with held up traffic?  They all often have to use the hard shoulder when currently all running lanes are congested.

In the incidents I have seen, they change the signs from the previous junction to show the hard shoulder as closed, the traffic then moves off and around the blockage and the hard shoulder becomes free for service use.

It is a very highly monitored system, for this reason it has to be Lizzie. It's not a case of open the lane to traffic and leave it un attended, there's CCTV and god knows what else to close the lane again if there's a hard shoulder incident.

The intensive monitoring obviously includes varying speed limits and speed cameras on the stretches involved. It's clearly not a cheap system, but it does work. Ime.

Thanks Chris, and Mark. If that is the case then perhaps it can work, but I still have reservations especially as I have heard police officers voicing their professional concerns

That's interesting, what did they say?

Quite simply without that hard shoulder it will cause them problems when going past miles of stationery traffic due to an incident on a very busy motorway, and the obvious one of concern over public, and their own safety, when a vehicle breaks down or they need to bring a motorist to a halt.  Hard shoulders give everyone just minutes of safe refuge, but without them it will be much worse!   

Agreed, stupid idea and the speed restriction is apparently an EU directive to cut emissions  so the Germans are going to reduce the speed on their autobahns are they

[Varche]

It is not a good idea in my opinion.

Apart from the panic that will be caused when someone breaks down and has nowhere to go, what will the emergency services use to reach incidents when all lanes are blocked with held up traffic?  They all often have to use the hard shoulder when currently all running lanes are congested.

In the incidents I have seen, they change the signs from the previous junction to show the hard shoulder as closed, the traffic then moves off and around the blockage and the hard shoulder becomes free for service use.

It is a very highly monitored system, for this reason it has to be Lizzie. It's not a case of open the lane to traffic and leave it un attended, there's CCTV and god knows what else to close the lane again if there's a hard shoulder incident.

The intensive monitoring obviously includes varying speed limits and speed cameras on the stretches involved. It's clearly not a cheap system, but it does work. Ime.

Thanks Chris, and Mark. If that is the case then perhaps it can work, but I still have reservations especially as I have heard police officers voicing their professional concerns

That's interesting, what did they say?

Quite simply without that hard shoulder it will cause them problems when going past miles of stationery traffic due to an incident on a very busy motorway, and the obvious one of concern over public, and their own safety, when a vehicle breaks down or they need to bring a motorist to a halt.  Hard shoulders give everyone just minutes of safe refuge, but without them it will be much worse!   

Agreed, stupid idea and the speed restriction is apparently an EU directive to cut emissions  so the Germans are going to reduce the speed on their autobahns are they

Where have you seen that

Spain adopted 110 km for a while on all motorways(ours are much less congested than Uk ones) but that was while Libya was going on and Spains oil was un-assured. The minute it was assured overnight every road sign changed back to 120. It would cripple the larger countries where the distances are so vast between places! Germany, France, Spain, Ukraine, Poland..........

[Bigron]

If the government spend more than 10% of the motoring taxes that they steal from us on roads and services, this topic would never need to be discussed - we would have an ace road network capable of providing what we, the customers have already paid for, i.e. a network fit for purpose, in good repair and pothole-free!
They don't even pretend that greed cameras are for safety purposes now: like parking charges, they are simply more ways of revenue collecting, in addition to the existing punitive motoring taxes.
Ran over!

Ron.

[MR MISTER]

If the government spend more than 10% of the motoring taxes that they steal from us on roads and services, this topic would never need to be discussed - we would have an ace road network capable of providing what we, the customers have already paid for, i.e. a network fit for purpose, in good repair and pothole-free!
They don't even pretend that greed cameras are for safety purposes now: like parking charges, they are simply more ways of revenue collecting, in addition to the existing punitive motoring taxes.
Ran over!

Ron.

Calm down, Ron, calm down 

[Bigron]

Sorry, Stemo.
Apart from the typo - "ran" instead of "rant", I needed to let of steam! It annoys me whenever I read of "solutions" to traffic problems that are not of our making. As I understand it, the government collects over £50,000,000,000 in motoring taxes directly, and obviously loads more in speed and parking fines, yet returns to us about £6,000,000,000 in benefits to the motorist, the remainder going in fighting wars that we don't need to be involved in (to support the US?), education and the NHS amongst other non-motoring expenditure.
Can you see why I'm so cross?

Ron.

[MR MISTER]

Sorry, Stemo.
Apart from the typo - "ran" instead of "rant", I needed to let of steam! It annoys me whenever I read of "solutions" to traffic problems that are not of our making. As I understand it, the government collects over £50,000,000,000 in motoring taxes directly, and obviously loads more in speed and parking fines, yet returns to us about £6,000,000,000 in benefits to the motorist, the remainder going in fighting wars that we don't need to be involved in (to support the US?), education and the NHS amongst other non-motoring expenditure.
Can you see why I'm so cross?

Ron.

This is stuff we all know about, Ron, but as there's absolutely sweet F A we can do, why raise your blood pressure. Chill....let some other bastard worry about it.

[cleggy]

It is not a good idea in my opinion.

Apart from the panic that will be caused when someone breaks down and has nowhere to go, what will the emergency services use to reach incidents when all lanes are blocked with held up traffic?  They all often have to use the hard shoulder when currently all running lanes are congested.

In the incidents I have seen, they change the signs from the previous junction to show the hard shoulder as closed, the traffic then moves off and around the blockage and the hard shoulder becomes free for service use.

It is a very highly monitored system, for this reason it has to be Lizzie. It's not a case of open the lane to traffic and leave it un attended, there's CCTV and god knows what else to close the lane again if there's a hard shoulder incident.

The intensive monitoring obviously includes varying speed limits and speed cameras on the stretches involved. It's clearly not a cheap system, but it does work. Ime.

Thanks Chris, and Mark. If that is the case then perhaps it can work, but I still have reservations especially as I have heard police officers voicing their professional concerns

That's interesting, what did they say?

Quite simply without that hard shoulder it will cause them problems when going past miles of stationery traffic due to an incident on a very busy motorway, and the obvious one of concern over public, and their own safety, when a vehicle breaks down or they need to bring a motorist to a halt.  Hard shoulders give everyone just minutes of safe refuge, but without them it will be much worse!   

Agreed, stupid idea and the speed restriction is apparently an EU directive to cut emissions  so the Germans are going to reduce the speed on their autobahns are they

Where have you seen that

Spain adopted 110 km for a while on all motorways(ours are much less congested than Uk ones) but that was while Libya was going on and Spains oil was un-assured. The minute it was assured overnight every road sign changed back to 120. It would cripple the larger countries where the distances are so vast between places! Germany, France, Spain, Ukraine, Poland..........

BBC radio 4's PM news programme tonight

[chrisgixer]

Something a bit more factual perhaps?

http://www.highways.gov.uk/news/press-releases/m4-hard-shoulder-trials-introduced-as-smart-motorway-scheme-progresses/