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Author Topic: Rise of the Nazis  (Read 2758 times)

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Lizzie Zoom

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Rise of the Nazis
« on: 18 September 2019, 09:36:02 »

As one of my main periods of study in history I have read, watched, and heard primary witness accounts of what happened over decades, but this excellent 3 part documentary series, that has just ended, has really got it all spot on in documentary terms of the 'processes' and 'mechanics' of what happened in democractric Germany in the lead up and after 1300 hours on 30th January, 1933, with so many in powerful positions corrupted, manipulated, and out maneuvered for a variety of reasons, that led to the Third Reich gaining it's evil strength.

Many will say "so what, it is just boring history!!"

Just think of what happened back in the 1930's with Germany and it's politics. Then look at what is happening now to our democracy.  Now I am NOT saying it will all degenerate to the level that it did after that infamous, aforementioned, crucial date in what had been the Weimar Republic of Germany to turn it into the Third Reich.  But watch how democracy was so easily manipulated, twisted, and dismantled, then think of our democracy and how we must not let that happen here, although I fear it has started.  We must take back control of our politicians and our current government, thank God not currently run by an evil, very astute, and manipulating dictator, but by a Buffoon who, by way of his very weakness, naivety and stupidity, could set the scene for the worst to happen; another stepping in to take advantage of our democracy's weak state.

A Warning From History indeed for the UK and the whole of Europe, where very real action in it's past has dictated twice before how we are now. With our, and Europe's, political difficulties, keep an eye on the, potential, powder keg Balkans and it's, once again, troubled politics that could impact on us all yet again. :o :o
« Last Edit: 18 September 2019, 09:38:23 by Lizzie Zoom »
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Doctor Gollum

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Re: Rise of the Nazis
« Reply #1 on: 18 September 2019, 11:50:50 »

People are easily manipulated.

Cautionary note, probably NWS, but no swearing...
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Field Marshal Dr. Opti

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Re: Rise of the Nazis
« Reply #2 on: 18 September 2019, 12:08:17 »

]People are easily manipulated[/highlight].

Cautionary note, probably NWS, but no swearing...

Yes......look at advertising in general.

With regard to history, it is very interesting when portrayed in such a way that 'you are there' taken back in time.

Sadly, the history teachers we 'endured' at grammar school in the early seventies had no enthusiasm so it became a very dry subject.......dry as a nun's fanny to use an analogy. :) 
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Lizzie Zoom

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Re: Rise of the Nazis
« Reply #3 on: 18 September 2019, 16:47:31 »

People are easily manipulated.

Cautionary note, probably NWS, but no swearing...

That is brilliant!  Good find DG! 8) 8) :y :y :y

It is a wonderful simplification of what happened, like sheep to slaughter. ;)
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Lizzie Zoom

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Re: Rise of the Nazis
« Reply #4 on: 18 September 2019, 17:15:46 »

]People are easily manipulated[/highlight].

Cautionary note, probably NWS, but no swearing...

Yes......look at advertising in general.

With regard to history, it is very interesting when portrayed in such a way that 'you are there' taken back in time.

Sadly, the history teachers we 'endured' at grammar school in the early seventies had no enthusiasm so it became a very dry subject.......dry as a nun's fanny to use an analogy. :)

I had the great privilege, well I think that what it was, of having two history teachers in succession at my schools from 1963 to 1968 who were full of passion about this subject, but I believe it all went downhill in the 1970's as no-one wanted even to consider how the "older" generation fault the tyranny, and instead make fun of it with a good dose of liberal claptrap.  Indeed one teacher I had in 1967/8 was so leftie and flower powery it was untrue, as was another who was hard right wing and totally dismissive of the Welfare State and handouts to the "bone idle, thick and lazy!!"

I was also highly fortunate to have a war time naval father whose passion was reading and talking about the Second World War, with the added fact he lost his father and mother to it!  In fact his seemingly great praise for the military forces of the Third Reich, with even singing their marching songs, I and my mum (with Jewish ancestors) found very disturbing and distasteful! But it led me and later my youngest brother to read and study the subject to learn a lot more up to Uni level, with him going beyond that and becoming a history teacher of even greater passion.  When we visited the Northern section of the Great War Western Front he, and me, couldn't resist touching as much surviving debris on the battlefields as legally allowed (well that is the official version, the two clips of live .303 British bullets as good as new, we will forget!), with him taking back to his pupils pieces of wire fencing, poles, and spent bullet cases to let them "touch history", which I also have to do whenever visiting places of the past.

I just hope the new generations study this history with a passion as well, so us Britain's at least never forgets, as, I think, the great sacrifices made to resist, then push back, the Nazis from France, Belgium and Holland, may be fading in their memories, especially with the "B" fiasco! I personally will never forget what this war did to my grandparents, my parents and their generation in general. I will always be quietly informing any youngsters interested in what actually took place, and what they must be wary of in the future.  Schools and their teachers, like my brother, have a very real responsibility to impart, with a passion, and professionally what they know of the facts. I sincerely hope this is so! ::) ::) :P
« Last Edit: 18 September 2019, 17:18:27 by Lizzie Zoom »
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Rods2

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Re: Rise of the Nazis
« Reply #5 on: 18 September 2019, 17:35:31 »

You can't have a functioning democracy if the losing side in any vote never accepts the result which is the situation we have in the UK. Once the losing side use their power in trashing your democratic institutions with 'one off' exceptions in trying to trash, the result they don't like, then your democracy is over, which is where we are now in post-democracy UK. I'm not sure what is going to happen next in the UK but Corbyn & his cabal can sense opportunity with their current political maneuverings to form a 'limited time unity government' with Corbyn in charge, once he gets hold of the levers of power and find they 'need limited time emergency powers' (who does this remind you of in 1933?) then they will then turn the UK into a one party Marxist dictatorship, with all property & businesses nationalized as they plunder all of our wealth for their own personal benefit. >:(

One off undemocratic exceptions are so dangerous as they then become the norm as we have seen in the US with the increasing use of Presidential executive privilege to bypass Congress & the Senate & we are now seeing similar things in the UK. Personally, I would put Western civilization falling in the next 20 years at 60-70%, where nobody seems to much care about preserving it as it's a given that life with or without democracy will stay the same, believe me it won't & you will being quickly wishing you had taken better care of it. >:(

At the end of WWII French Monet, the driver of the EEC which morphed into the EU disliked and distrusted democracy and was a big fan of the Soviet Union which is why the EEC/EU is modelled on this. Luckly, they haven't an army, police & border force swearing allegiance to the EU because once they have do, they can then go the full hog to complete their dictatorship. Oh err, their about to. >:(

Is is less than 30 years since the STASI (escentially the German Gestapo) was finally disbanded in 1991, we had the return of European death camps & genocide in Yugoslavia just over  20 years a go, these dark forces have finished their short rest & are on the march again as winter is coming for all of us unless we all proactively stop it happening. Climate Fraud shows how easily people are duped & manipulated, especially the brainwashed young, where schools are no longer about teaching children "how to think" but "what to think" with the UK common purpose teachers amongst the worst in the world. >:(

I was fortunate when I was at school that we had an exceptional Cambridge graduate with a masters degree in history, who should have really been teaching at a much higher level. Other pupils loss was our gain & I did get a top grade 1 O'Level in the subject. :y :y :y
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Lizzie Zoom

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Re: Rise of the Nazis
« Reply #6 on: 18 September 2019, 17:37:36 »

You can't have a functioning democracy if the losing side in any vote never accepts the result which is the situation we have in the UK. Once the losing side use their power in trashing your democratic institutions with 'one off' exceptions in trying to trash, the result they don't like, then your democracy is over, which is where we are now in post-democracy UK. I'm not sure what is going to happen next in the UK but Corbyn & his cabal can sense opportunity with their current political maneuverings to form a 'limited time unity government' with Corbyn in charge, once he gets hold of the levers of power and find they 'need limited time emergency powers' (who does this remind you of in 1933?) then they will then turn the UK into a one party Marxist dictatorship, with all property & businesses nationalized as they plunder all of our wealth for their own personal benefit. >:(

One off undemocratic exceptions are so dangerous as they then become the norm as we have seen in the US with the increasing use of Presidential executive privilege to bypass Congress & the Senate & we are now seeing similar things in the UK. Personally, I would put Western civilization falling in the next 20 years at 60-70%, where nobody seems to much care about preserving it as it's a given that life with or without democracy will stay the same, believe me it won't & you will being quickly wishing you had taken better care of it. >:(

At the end of WWII French Monet, the driver of the EEC which morphed into the EU disliked and distrusted democracy and was a big fan of the Soviet Union which is why the EEC/EU is modelled on this. Luckly, they haven't an army, police & border force swearing allegiance to the EU because once they have do, they can then go the full hog to complete their dictatorship. Oh err, their about to. >:(

Is is less than 30 years since the STASI (escentially the German Gestapo) was finally disbanded in 1991, we had the return of European death camps & genocide in Yugoslavia just over  20 years a go, these dark forces have finished their short rest & are on the march again as winter is coming for all of us unless we all proactively stop it happening. Climate Fraud shows how easily people are duped & manipulated, especially the brainwashed young, where schools are no longer about teaching children "how to think" but "what to think" with the UK common purpose teachers amongst the worst in the world. >:(

I was fortunate when I was at school that we had an exceptional Cambridge graduate with a masters degree in history, who should have really been teaching at a much higher level. Other pupils loss was our gain & I did get a top grade 1 O'Level in the subject. :y :y :y

A very good appraisal Rod 8) 8) 8) :y :y :y
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BazaJT

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Re: Rise of the Nazis
« Reply #7 on: 18 September 2019, 18:02:15 »

The TV station PBS America[if you receive it]do some very good programmes.I've been watching some on the Nuremburg trials which are done using part dramatic reconstruction and part archive footage of the time.
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Lizzie Zoom

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Re: Rise of the Nazis
« Reply #8 on: 18 September 2019, 20:12:23 »

The TV station PBS America[if you receive it]do some very good programmes.I've been watching some on the Nuremburg trials which are done using part dramatic reconstruction and part archive footage of the time.

Oh dear, yes I am afraid Baza I have watched many recordings of the proceedings during that trial, and read the minutes of many sections of the trials.

In fact far too many, and much of it is well beyond comfortable viewing even when trying to assess historical fact.  I have cried my heart out far too many times (I am now just writing this! :'( :'( :'( :'() as I learn more about what terrible, almost beyond belief, as to what happened to so many who were brought into the camps.

Now, one particular witness, Severina Shmaglevskaya, a working internee of Auschwitz, that is recorded on film, gave an account on oath of what the SS did with children when there was a shortage of gas (Zyklon B) for the chambers. I cannot bring myself to write what she explained........ :'( :'( :'( .....it is just so terrible, and if you have the stomach for it read under Section 318 of 27th February 1946 of Vol 8 of the Sixty-Ninth day of evidence, towards the end of that particular section:

https://avalon.law.yale.edu/imt/02-27-46.asp

The rest of just this one document is enough to turn your stomach and utter curses. So, be warned, but you obviously know Baza what the content of the trials when they covered the atrocities of the camps, and outside them, what the material is like.

Some criticised, and insulted me, for asking questions in a thread about the young racing driver killed recently, and referring to a section of film taken of the crash as though I was doing it for some hawkish motive, not out of genuine interest in the facts. Well, when studying history we have to thoroughly review all the evidence, no matter how distressing and uncomfortable it is so that the truth can be ascertained. This section of the Nuremberg trials from that point of view is off the scale..........but we MUST never hold back from publicising the truth so that it, maybe, can never happen again.

Be the judge in this case and consider what you would have wished on the Nazi defendants who, so often, claimed to be just "obeying orders" !!!!! >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(

« Last Edit: 18 September 2019, 20:15:48 by Lizzie Zoom »
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BazaJT

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Re: Rise of the Nazis
« Reply #9 on: 18 September 2019, 20:32:26 »

What the Nazis did was without doubt inexcusable and I'm in no way defending them,but what seems to be glossed over/conveniently forgotten is the role the allies victorious in WW1 played in sowing the seeds to create the conditions which allowed the Nazis to begin their rise-and make WW2 all but inevitable.With the heavy restrictions on German manufacturing and trade plus massive war reparation demands.Couple those two along with the Wall Street crash and massive hyper inflation and you can see why the party that promised the people better living standards instilling a pride and belief in themselves would gain such traction quickly.Obviously a lot of brutal tactics were used but a fantastic use of brilliant propaganda was brought into play to turn such brutality to the partys advantage.
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Re: Rise of the Nazis
« Reply #10 on: 18 September 2019, 20:56:44 »

Yes you create enough disenfranchised people with time on their hands and hamstring a once-proud nation, the results, while not inevitable are easily predictable.

Thank goodness we don't have mass ranks of politically disenfranchised poor and jobless people cluttering up the place. Oh, wait...
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Lizzie Zoom

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Re: Rise of the Nazis
« Reply #11 on: 19 September 2019, 08:52:05 »

What the Nazis did was without doubt inexcusable and I'm in no way defending them,but what seems to be glossed over/conveniently forgotten is the role the allies victorious in WW1 played in sowing the seeds to create the conditions which allowed the Nazis to begin their rise-and make WW2 all but inevitable.With the heavy restrictions on German manufacturing and trade plus massive war reparation demands.Couple those two along with the Wall Street crash and massive hyper inflation and you can see why the party that promised the people better living standards instilling a pride and belief in themselves would gain such traction quickly.Obviously a lot of brutal tactics were used but a fantastic use of brilliant propaganda was brought into play to turn such brutality to the partys advantage.

You mean Baza the Treaty of Versailles, that was a dispicable act in itself, which turned on Germany, as you state Baza, as though that nation was the only one to blame for the highly complicated reasons, centred on the Balkans, with Russia and France equally complicit, for the start of The Great War. Indeed it was Austria that first declared war on Serbia and effectively started The Great War to come, with Russia then mobilising it's military forces in response, with Germany actually playing the peace maker by instructing Austria to stop it's military actions. But it was Germany that was humiliated, lost it's pride by way of losing it's military and it's great industrial capacity, with the Royal Navy's blockade that starved many Germans to death, when they had not actually been defeated, although it was heading that way, but had agreed to the 1918 Armistace. No wonder proud Germans where left feeling very wronged!

Indeed, it made another war inevitable, which both the senior representatives of France, Britain, and a junior USA official knew, and spoke out about, as soon as the awful Treaty was signed. Germany was not even allowed to be part of the Allies commitee when all parts of the potential 'agreement' was being put together and agreed!  It caused the utter destabilisation of a once proud and great nation, with tremendous political upheaval, that led to the National Socialist German Workers Party rise to power and the eventual loss of 60 million human beings. What a bloody disgrace that Treaty was. >:( >:( >:(
« Last Edit: 19 September 2019, 09:00:47 by Lizzie Zoom »
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BazaJT

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Re: Rise of the Nazis
« Reply #12 on: 19 September 2019, 09:25:00 »

For a nation that didn't exist as such until Bismark united the Germanic states into a whole in the 1870s,they didn't half create havoc in a short time!
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Doctor Gollum

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Re: Rise of the Nazis
« Reply #13 on: 19 September 2019, 10:26:01 »

I blame the Belgians...  :D

Interestingly, austerity isn't a British concept...

https://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0130/311637-belgium/ ::)
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Lizzie Zoom

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Re: Rise of the Nazis
« Reply #14 on: 19 September 2019, 13:50:10 »

For a nation that didn't exist as such until Bismark united the Germanic states into a whole in the 1870s,they didn't half create havoc in a short time!

Indeed, and by 1900 their industrial output exceeded Britain's.  All they wanted was their place in the Sun, with an Empire befitting Germany by 1900, and trying to match the one Britain had.  In the context of the period that was perfectly reasonable, but France felt threatened, especially after they lost the Franco-Prussian war of 1870-71, which led to the French Empire disintegrating and the states of Germany uniting, with the bonus of being able to create the terroritry of Alsace-Lorraine at the expense of France. An area of constant dispute between the two countries for decades after :D :D ;)
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