Topic: EGR cheater x30xe (motronic) (Read 11744 times)

calibrated · « **on:** 27 January 2016, 13:02:57 »

Getting all sorts of error codes including 73 74 maf error....TPS error.and so on..all tried on other car and it works..so i assume i have faulty egr because im also getting code 129 low voltage...does somebody know does cheater for z22se works? If not which one works?
I came upon this thread:
www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=104638.msg1364767#msg1310258

Some info on that?

Kevin Wood · « **Reply #1 on:** 27 January 2016, 14:28:48 »

If you're getting a whole host of codes, it's not simply the EGR that has a problem.

On a 2.2, multiple codes appearing is often due to cam sensor failure.

calibrated · « **Reply #2 on:** 27 January 2016, 15:34:12 »

Yes..but hovewer i want to outfunction egr

calibrated · « **Reply #3 on:** 27 January 2016, 16:14:55 »

I think you didnt understand me...i have x30xe engine...but want to put z22se egr cheater...and now i ask if it works?

Kevin Wood · « **Reply #4 on:** 27 January 2016, 16:29:53 »

OK, so are you getting any codes with the proper EGR valve plugged in, for starters?

I doubt the Z22SE device would work as the EGRs are physically very different and the ECUs are from different manufacturers too.

calibrated · « **Reply #5 on:** 27 January 2016, 17:27:21 »

Yes..getting code 129 egr voltage low...i tried to dissasemble it...the valve moves up and down so it isnt stuck

sjc · « **Reply #6 on:** 27 January 2016, 20:56:04 »

The z22se EGR cheater is the one you want and works on the X25XE and X30XE engines.

You wire it like this using a small 12v relay (I used an old Carlton fog light relay)

calibrated · « **Reply #7 on:** 27 January 2016, 23:10:52 »

I send you pm stephen.....my wires go like this
A brown grey(white)
B brown green
C brown yellow
D blue black
E red blue

baggers · « **Reply #8 on:** 29 January 2016, 16:14:29 »

Quote from: calibrated on 27 January 2016, 17:27:21

Yes..getting code 129 egr voltage low...i tried to dissasemble it...the valve moves up and down so it isnt stuck

But is it closing/sealing correctly?

TheBoy · « **Reply #9 on:** 29 January 2016, 18:16:24 »

I think Kevin Wood was saying that if you're getting loads of other codes (as well as the EGR one), an EGR cheater is not going to solve anything

calibrated · « **Reply #10 on:** 29 January 2016, 18:39:46 »

Yes i understand man...Could i get many error codes if timing belt was 1 tooth out on the left head on both camshafts (cylinder 2 4 6) ??

Yes baggers sealing correctly..however i will dissasemble the "hand" on which egr stand and see if its stuck...i read some topics that oven cleaner helps...

dbug · « **Reply #11 on:** 29 January 2016, 22:50:20 »

Quote from: calibrated on 29 January 2016, 18:39:46

Yes i understand man...Could i get many error codes if timing belt was 1 tooth out on the left head on both camshafts (cylinder 2 4 6) ??

Yes baggers sealing correctly..however i will dissasemble the "hand" on which egr stand and see if its stuck...i read some topics that oven cleaner helps...

No

sjc · « **Reply #12 on:** 30 January 2016, 11:30:58 »

Quote from: calibrated on 27 January 2016, 23:10:52

I send you pm stephen.....my wires go like this
A brown grey(white)
B brown green
C brown yellow
D blue black
E red blue

If there's a break in the weather, I'll get a few pics of how I wired mine up.

sjc · « **Reply #13 on:** 30 January 2016, 11:32:25 »

BTW, I started by cutting the socket off of a spare EGR valve so that I have a plug and play solution

calibrated · « **Reply #14 on:** 30 January 2016, 17:45:25 »

Ok thank you...when you make some pics let me know!

sjc · « **Reply #15 on:** 30 January 2016, 22:27:16 »

Here is how I built the EGR cheater for my 1999 3L MV6 (Motronic ECU) based on the Z22SE EGR cheater purchased from the Z22SE club (cost around £10) I would imagine any cheater built for the Z22SE engine would work just the same.

Firstly, I cut the wiring socket from an old EGR valve so that my finished product would simply plug into the engine loom - I'm not a fan of chopping up wiring looms.

Since I was also fitting 2.6/3.2 exhaust manifolds, I was able to completely remove all traces of the EGR valve and made a blanking plate for the side of the plenum - as can be seen in the last picture.

Step 1 - pins 1, 2 & 3 on the EGR cheater were connected to pins B, C & D on the EGR socket and a long wire onto pin 4 for connecting to the switching side of a small 12v relay (I used an old Carlton fog light relay because it was nice and compact)

Step 2 - connect 2 wires to pin E on the EGR socket (plain yellow wires in the next pic). Since this is just to give you 2 +12v connections for the relay (1 on switching side, 1 on the switched side), you could also connect just one wire here and bridge at the back of the relay, your choice.

Step 3 - connect a wire to pin A on the EGR socket (yellow wire with red trace in next pic) which will go to the switched side of the relay

Finish off by wrapping in insulating tape or heatshrink as you prefer. When complete it's small enough to be tucked away in the front cable tray...

Nothing to see here...

Clutter removed...

Blanking plate on the side of the plenum...

TheBoy · « **Reply #16 on:** 31 January 2016, 08:28:42 »

Nice work

.

Personally, I'd recommend something a bit more water resistant than insulating tape, such as a small box with sealant where wires go in, as dampness can creep in.

Fancy combining the circuit diagram and these pics (and also a pic of the rear of the vero to show cuts etc) into a new thread, and we'll ask Jimbob to add as a guide?

sjc · « **Reply #17 on:** 31 January 2016, 09:37:30 »

Cheers TB.

Yeah, it is a little "exposed". When I was building it back up after the pics, I wrapped it in self-amalgamating tape (the stuff that sky engineers use on cable joins) but it needs to remain as small as possible to fit in the cable tray

I'll do an all-in post to put up as a guide - right enough, this topic does come up every now and then.

tidla · « **Reply #18 on:** 31 January 2016, 12:27:17 »

Excuse my ignorance, but why do you need this when there's a blanking plate in situ?

The egr valve can do what it likes to little avail. And as long as its plugged in, no fault codes.

sjc · « **Reply #19 on:** 31 January 2016, 13:30:11 »

Quote from: tidla on 31 January 2016, 12:27:17

Excuse my ignorance, but why do you need this when there's a blanking plate in situ?

The egr valve can do what it likes to little avail. And as long as its plugged in, no fault codes.

It's one less thing in your way when you're working on the engine

I removed the secondary air injection and all of the aircon components for much the same reason - no longer required/didn't work so they went in the bin. I can change the auxiliary belt now without even having to remove the bagpipes, and changing the plugs on the left cylinder bank is a doddle, even getting into the b* bolt on the coolant transfer pipe is easy without the aircon pipes on the way

raywilb · « **Reply #20 on:** 01 February 2016, 12:21:01 »

it all looks like white mans magic to me, but I am watching this post with interest as I think my dti may have an egr problem

TheBoy · « **Reply #21 on:** 01 February 2016, 17:57:48 »

Quote from: raywilb on 01 February 2016, 12:21:01

it all looks like white mans magic to me, but I am watching this post with interest as I think my dti may have an egr problem

DTi needs the EGR, and can't be (as easily) cheated. Diesels run a shed load of egr when cruising, for economy reasons. On petrols, egr is for emissions, esp NOX

baggers · « **Reply #22 on:** 01 February 2016, 19:34:30 »

Quote from: tidla on 31 January 2016, 12:27:17

Excuse my ignorance, but why do you need this when there's a blanking plate in situ?

The egr valve can do what it likes to little avail. And as long as its plugged in, no fault codes.

I can't speak for this engine but tried it on a X14XE engine, blanking plate and an EGR plugged in close by, because of the absence of the EGR it was running lean and engine light came on.

calibrated · « **Reply #23 on:** 04 February 2016, 11:28:51 »

Thank you for your info...will be wiring up sooon so will inform you about results

Marks DTM Calib · « **Reply #24 on:** 04 February 2016, 11:36:03 »

Quote from: baggers on 01 February 2016, 19:34:30

Quote from: tidla on 31 January 2016, 12:27:17
Excuse my ignorance, but why do you need this when there's a blanking plate in situ?

The egr valve can do what it likes to little avail. And as long as its plugged in, no fault codes.

I can't speak for this engine but tried it on a X14XE engine, blanking plate and an EGR plugged in close by, because of the absence of the EGR it was running lean and engine light came on.

Cant have been blanked correctly, EGR Is based around the fact that exhaust gasses are inert so no impact on mixture with or without EGR

Diamond Black Geezer · « **Reply #25 on:** 04 February 2016, 11:38:22 »

Exactly the mod I have been looking for! Blanking the EGR is one thing, but having it sitting there effectively useless, and in the way, I never liked the idea of. Makes for a cleaner engine bay. Looking forward to seeing these in full-scale production!

sjc · « **Reply #26 on:** 04 February 2016, 11:52:03 »

Quote from: Marks DTM Calib on 04 February 2016, 11:36:03

Quote from: baggers on 01 February 2016, 19:34:30
Quote from: tidla on 31 January 2016, 12:27:17
Excuse my ignorance, but why do you need this when there's a blanking plate in situ?

The egr valve can do what it likes to little avail. And as long as its plugged in, no fault codes.

I can't speak for this engine but tried it on a X14XE engine, blanking plate and an EGR plugged in close by, because of the absence of the EGR it was running lean and engine light came on.

Cant have been blanked correctly, EGR Is based around the fact that exhaust gasses are inert so no impact on mixture with or without EGR

Yeah, sounds like it was leaking air at the blanking plate.

minifreek · « **Reply #27 on:** 19 June 2016, 18:03:33 »

Im in the process of doing this mod, and have been looking for the circuit diagram to sort it for mine...

@SJC - Did you remove the AC pump....? What size aux belt did you use....? Im trying to use a non AC X20XEV aux belt as I thought that was the correct size, but it's too short...? I really don't want to re-install the AC pump if I don't have to...

TheBoy · « **Reply #28 on:** 19 June 2016, 18:16:08 »

Quote from: minifreek on 19 June 2016, 18:03:33

@SJC - Did you remove the AC pump....? What size aux belt did you use....? Im trying to use a non AC X20XEV aux belt as I thought that was the correct size, but it's too short...? I really don't want to re-install the AC pump if I don't have to...

Go into any factor, and ask for an Aux belt for your car, emphasising it has no A/C. There are 2 different lengths, 10mm difference, based on age I believe.

sjc · « **Reply #29 on:** 19 June 2016, 20:02:35 »

Yeah, I removed all of the AC components and used a non-AC belt

Part # 93181718 ALTERNATOR DRIVE BELT (21.36 X 1900 MM) W/O AirCon

Belt also has 6 PK 1900 marked on it which looks like a Gates part number to me.

minifreek · « **Reply #30 on:** 19 June 2016, 21:51:11 »

Quote from: TheBoy on 19 June 2016, 18:16:08

Quote from: minifreek on 19 June 2016, 18:03:33
@SJC - Did you remove the AC pump....? What size aux belt did you use....? Im trying to use a non AC X20XEV aux belt as I thought that was the correct size, but it's too short...? I really don't want to re-install the AC pump if I don't have to...
Go into any factor, and ask for an Aux belt for your car, emphasising it has no A/C. There are 2 different lengths, 10mm difference, based on age I believe.

Thankyou

minifreek · « **Reply #31 on:** 19 June 2016, 21:52:56 »

Quote from: sjc on 19 June 2016, 20:02:35

Yeah, I removed all of the AC components and used a non-AC belt

Part # 93181718 ALTERNATOR DRIVE BELT (21.36 X 1900 MM) W/O AirCon

Belt also has 6 PK 1900 marked on it which looks like a Gates part number to me.

Also thankyou

And yes it also looks like a Gates belt code to me too....

I only use Gates belts as they are OEM Vauxhall I believe, just a little bit cheaper...

minifreek · « **Reply #32 on:** 20 June 2016, 08:05:39 »

It turns out that the 6PK1900 is a reference number for a Contitech drivebelt for a 1999 Vx Vectra V6 without AC, so its been reserved and I go to collect 1 later this morning

Have also ordered an EGR cheater too, so the engine bay in my Omega should be a lot emptier when it all gets put back together, once the radiator gets replaced - again....

minifreek · « **Reply #33 on:** 20 June 2016, 11:07:29 »

Drivebelt collected and fitted - perfick

Just waiting on the cheater and radiator now....

Diamond Black Geezer · « **Reply #34 on:** 20 June 2016, 16:41:30 »

So, returning back to the orginal post, really - is this an EGR cheater for another engine or have you made a hack/mod, or otherwise? Very interested in both what SJC did and you're doing with this.

minifreek · « **Reply #35 on:** 20 June 2016, 18:43:04 »

Iv ordered an EGR cheater for a Z22SE which 'should' work....

Have been meaning to delete the EGR itself for many months, and also the AC pump too. Coz I had half the engine stripped with replaceing the HG's I took the chance to do some other mods whilst I had access to them

Iv also changed the headers for later type, changed the inlet cams from G to A and given the breather system some much needed cleaning too....

Hopefully the cheater works as Im expecting, if not I'll reconnect the EGR and hide it somewhere....

Diamond Black Geezer · « **Reply #36 on:** 21 June 2016, 12:03:46 »

Look forward to the results. Daft question, fitting a ruddy great thick plate in the EGR and you know it's worked, but as for plugging in a magic black box - how can you tell it's doing its thing. Presumably a code reader will tell?

If all goes well I can see this being a very popular mod.

frostbite · « **Reply #37 on:** 21 June 2016, 12:52:39 »

I cut up a coke can to make a gasket and put a hole where the plunger is so it can move freely, no light comes on plus the valve is still in place to look nice

No need for the thick ebay plates

Diamond Black Geezer · « **Reply #38 on:** 21 June 2016, 13:35:30 »

Apparently the coke cans burn through - it's directly connected to the exhaust manifold, don't forget. Don't know how long it lasted, but I did find the remains of a burnt out coke can in the EGR when I took command of the Starship Omega, which had been fitted some years before. Might last tens of thousands of miles, might last weeks not sure.

There is a GM blanking plate, and official mod, as this EGR was used on several engines, apparently. This is a fairly thick affair, presumably for reasons of heat.

Bojan · « **Reply #39 on:** 21 June 2016, 13:46:28 »

The EGR valve is removed, together with connecting pipes.
So there will be no exhaust gasses.

The reason why this plate should be thick, when discarding EGR, is to have enough riggidity to 'hold' a seal (either OEM seal can be used, or some sort of sealant) between blanking plate and intake plenum.

tigers_gonads · « **Reply #40 on:** 21 June 2016, 13:52:40 »

Quote from: Diamond Black Geezer on 21 June 2016, 12:03:46

Look forward to the results. Daft question, fitting a ruddy great thick plate in the EGR and you know it's worked, but as for plugging in a magic black box - how can you tell it's doing its thing. Presumably a code reader will tell?

If all goes well I can see this being a very popular mod.

Without me taking the piss for a change DBG

Have you cleaned the EGR out properly and re fitted it ?

I've owned 3 v6's with egr's and never had a problem $:-\$

Diamond Black Geezer · « **Reply #41 on:** 21 June 2016, 14:02:36 »

Mr Gonads - Never cleaned one out, I know it's a popular mod to blank it off. Didn't know there was any particular issue with them actually requiring cleaning, though. You saying worth me giving it a clean out? Surely something that can be safely blanked wouldnt matter if it were blocked by gunk instead?

To Bojan, sorry. I agree if you discard the EGR completely, then a thick plate will be helpful, yes, and no heat - But Frostbite said "plus the valve is still in place to look nice" In this case the common mod is to undo the EGR, put in a blanking plate, then refit the EGR. In such case theres exhaust gases hitting the blanking plate, and it would ideally do to be fairly thick.

I think some of us are talking about cars with completely removed EGRs, and some about EGRS still fitted, but with blanking plates in.

Bojan · « **Reply #42 on:** 21 June 2016, 14:40:56 »

Quote from: Diamond Black Geezer on 21 June 2016, 14:02:36

I think some of us are talking about cars with completely removed EGRs, and some about EGRS still fitted, but with blanking plates in.

It seems so

Diamond Black Geezer · « **Reply #43 on:** 21 June 2016, 15:54:20 »

Nick W · « **Reply #44 on:** 21 June 2016, 16:26:58 »

I suspect that fitting the later manifolds is the main reason to blank EGR, as unlike Corsas the V6 ones don't fail and there is no apparent difference with it working or not.

Making a plate to blank it looked like hard work to me, so I turned a plug that fits instead of the pipe from the exhaust:

That's a small piece of steel, with an appropriate step turned in each end, painted satin black(aerosol from Poundland), and retained with the original nut:

Removing the valve and mounting lug, then hiding the cheater in the cable tray seems like a good next step to me , as the valve is really bulky for something that is no longer required.

minifreek · « **Reply #45 on:** 21 June 2016, 20:48:24 »

OK folks...

I originally blanked the EGR by using the '5p mod'....

It made a difference to the engine immediately having an effect on the acceleration response... don't know if it actually makes any power but it definately made a difference...

I used later manifolds lately, I also made a blank for the EGR from some aircraft grade aluminium sheet and also a piece of 1/16th thick rubber cut to the same shape.... fitted to the intake plenum with the screws that used to hold the EGR to the intake plenum...

At the moment Im awaiting delivery of an EGR cheater - from Poland, but the tracking says it'll be here tomorrow...

Iv cable tied the EGR away from anything that might move, only plugged in because otherwise the EML will light... hopefully the cheater is a quick plug n play job, and then I can hide all that in the engine bay somewhere....

Diamond Black Geezer · « **Reply #46 on:** 22 June 2016, 09:18:20 »

I'm going down the later manifolds route some point in the future - soon as the guy I know who has a broken old 2.6 can get them off for me.

SAI removal, re-instatement of Air-con, and EGR removal all on the cards. Oh, and the grimiest engine bay ever getting a thorough clean!

minifreek · « **Reply #47 on:** 23 June 2016, 15:17:11 »

Well the EGR cheater turned up today, but it doesn't work....

I know I bought 1 for the Z22SE and was taking a chance with it, but it doesn't work with the X25XE...

So just going to leave the EGR connected and hidden instead....

Diamond Black Geezer · « **Reply #48 on:** 23 June 2016, 15:23:51 »

NOOO!!!!!

Someone needs to make some EGR cheaters. Cleans up the engine bay no end, perfect if you've got 2.6 manifolds etc, too. The search continues....

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Author Topic: EGR cheater x30xe (motronic) (Read 11744 times)