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[feeutfo]

My car had a 2013 originally, with Cid.

I have fitted a 2015 and the telematics with glove box. Currently the head unit is in 2013 state to get it working until a telematics loom is made up.

Question is, is the loom all thats needed to make the phone work? Reading Joffs thread it looks like theres a possibilty the roof aerial may not have the desired connectors? Do i need to swap the aerial base out too?  :-/

[joff]

My first black elite estate had a 2015 in it that i got off the bay for about £100 and it was new (bargin) jamie did his Tech2 thing and it worked as a 2013 but I can't remember if the mig was fitted up for phone there was no unit in the glove box but i'm shore there was an extra connection from that direction going to the back of the 2015. I sold the car to HN03 GOH and he sold it on about 7-9 mths later, never did look at the aerial base connections so cannot say if it was the same base :-/ what base unit do you have is the one with the connections that are the same as mine. if so you may need the one like h21 has which would need another loome fitting with the connections he has.

[TheBoy]

My car had a 2013 originally, with Cid.

I have fitted a 2015 and the telematics with glove box. Currently the head unit is in 2013 state to get it working until a telematics loom is made up.

Question is, is the loom all thats needed to make the phone work? Reading Joffs thread it looks like theres a possibilty the roof aerial may not have the desired connectors? Do i need to swap the aerial base out too?  :-/

You will have to see what aerial is available, it will probably be in the drivers kick panel, as the car never had telematics from factory.

[Andy H]

The first Nokia hands free kit I fitted to an Omega wanted an aerial. I didn't want to go drilling holes in the roof so I fitted a tax disc holder aerial.



http://www.panorama.co.uk/uk/products/mobile_phone_internalglassmount.html

[TheBoy]

I use tax disc type in the Rover, but they are pretty poor to be honest (compared to a proper aerial)

[Andy H]

I use tax disc type in the Rover, but they are pretty poor to be honest (compared to a proper aerial)

I can't comment on how well it works with an NCDC2015. :-/

I do know that the Panorama screen mount aerial has always given a strong signal with my Nokia phones and T-Mobile (GSM1800).

As the NCDC2015 is GSM900 only I don't know if it needs an antenna optimised for GSM900 :-/ Given the length of coax and the number of connectors that there are between the standard aerial and the head unit I imagine a mediocre screen mount might work as well as a top performance roof mount :-/

[TheBoy]

I use tax disc type in the Rover, but they are pretty poor to be honest (compared to a proper aerial)

I can't comment on how well it works with an NCDC2015. :-/

I do know that the Panorama screen mount aerial has always given a strong signal with my Nokia phones and T-Mobile (GSM1800).

As the NCDC2015 is GSM900 only I don't know if it needs an antenna optimised for GSM900 :-/ Given the length of coax and the number of connectors that there are between the standard aerial and the head unit I imagine a mediocre screen mount might work as well as a top performance roof mount :-/

I don't know how well they work with NCDC2015 either, but know they are poor on Nokia cark kits.

Probably work fine in good signal areas, but where I live, Vodafone is rubbish, and thats where the difference between proper aerials and less ideal aerials show

[VXL V6]

Nothing beats a proper roof mounted Co-linear......

The Elite will have the pre-wiring for a car kit so will have a Phone Aerial built into the roof aerial (it's the stick bit from the base which translates to a unity gain colinear) which will terminate in the kick panel. While you can buy a Nokia - GM adapter cable you will struggle to find a telematics one (The original telematics antenna loom goes up the A pillar over the windscreen and down the other A pillar to the kick panel!).

I have simply made up an antenna loom buy modifying a Nokia adapter cable (Cut off the FME an crimped on a SMB) for one car which is the route you'll probably want to take. My 3.2 uses a dual bumper antenna that is descreetly stuck on the inside of the bumper and works well as my Nokia uses the roof antenna.

[feeutfo]

So, the roof unit is wrong, it wont work as is, and i wont find the right one second hand?

So need to adapt one....?

[Andy H]

How about this one?


http://www.panorama.co.uk/uk/products/mobile_phone_AM_FM_GPS.html

(About £150 from what I can see using google)

[VXL V6]

Roof unit is correct as it's a GSM900 unity gain co-linear and the telematics only accepts GSM900 Sims.

The problem is the patch lead from the kick panel to the Telematics that will need you to modify a Nokia style one as per:-

http://www.dynamicsounds.co.uk/autoleads-pc5104-opel-2002-opel-aerial-adaptor-plug-p-9605.html

Then cut off the FME plug and crimp on an SMB female plug or buy another adapter such as:-

http://www.dabonwheels.co.uk/DOW5_FME_M_to_SME_F_connector.asp

The big problem is that the GSM signal is so minute and any joins in the feeder cable create massive signal losses. On the upside the Telematics is a full Class II (Up to 8W) device as far as I have been able to find out.

[VXL V6]

How about this one?


http://www.panorama.co.uk/uk/products/mobile_phone_AM_FM_GPS.html

(About £150 from what I can see using google)

Top quality aerial but will have wrong connectors and the saloon doesn't need the Radio (VHF, AM, LW) capability.

[Andy H]

Top quality aerial but will have wrong connectors and the saloon doesn't need the Radio (VHF, AM, LW) capability.

Panorama will fit whatever connector you ask them to when you order it.

They do sell GSM + GPS combo antenna but they are little shark fin type. (about £80 I think)



http://www.panorama.co.uk/uk/products/mobile_phone_gps_panel_mount.html

[VXL V6]

That looks good. 

The Saloon requires something with a reasonably small base because the shape of the roof line at the rear is curved, anything with a large base wont sit fully flat at the front edge.

This one will also fit:-

http://products.hirschmann-car.com/SepiaPIMWeb/ProductCatalog?treepath=2_891_1054_918_930

[VXL V6]

Here's what i've been modifying, basically it's a cheap imported GSM / GPS antenna that i've altered the internals, the twig now has the correct length dipole for GSM900 but as you can see the angle is less than ideal and exagerated by the curvature of the roof.

This is the largest base you can get away with the gasket 'sealing' at the front edge (As you can see it's right on the limit!), the important part is that the mounting bolt and cable exit is in the middle of the base, anything forward or backwards of the centre doesn't allow the base to sit properly.

[TheBoy]

But gayboygixer has the correct aerial, he just needs to mess with the wiring

[VXL V6]

But gayboygixer has the correct aerial, he just needs to mess with the wiring

I'm waiting for either you or I to recieve a PM about loom building! 

[TheBoy]

But gayboygixer has the correct aerial, he just needs to mess with the wiring

I'm waiting for either you or I to recieve a PM about loom building! 

He needs the soldering practice

[Kevin Wood]

The big problem is that the GSM signal is so minute and any joins in the feeder cable create massive signal losses. On the upside the Telematics is a full Class II (Up to 8W) device as far as I have been able to find out.

I can measure one and tell you what power class it is if you like?

Kevin

[TheBoy]

The big problem is that the GSM signal is so minute and any joins in the feeder cable create massive signal losses. On the upside the Telematics is a full Class II (Up to 8W) device as far as I have been able to find out.

I can measure one and tell you what power class it is if you like?

Kevin

I believe its either a 4w or 8w device...  ...even Vodafone works here on the Telematics (except those tosspots at Vodafone have disabled my SIM, and I really cannot be bothered to ring those retards up)

[VXL V6]

The big problem is that the GSM signal is so minute and any joins in the feeder cable create massive signal losses. On the upside the Telematics is a full Class II (Up to 8W) device as far as I have been able to find out.

I can measure one and tell you what power class it is if you like?

Kevin

I believe its either a 4w or 8w device...  ...even Vodafone works here on the Telematics (except those tosspots at Vodafone have disabled my SIM, and I really cannot be bothered to ring those retards up)

Nokia designation is NTE-2RH, I have a couple of units that Josh has borrowed if you want to have a look at one. I also have another one here that I need to have a dabble with but will probably end up with TB to experiment on!

[feeutfo]

But gayboygixer has the correct aerial, he just needs to mess with the wiring

I'm waiting for either you or I to recieve a PM about loom building! 

He needs the soldering practice

Luckily for you guys, and possibly Kevin, its way down on my list of prioritys atm. Mot,roof vent for bathroom, lpg, water softner for house, ebc discs oe pads, body work repair, suspension upgrades, etc.

Or just connect up the blu tooth car kit and sell the telematics. Would look odd with 2015 then though.  :-/
I soldered a hood vent circuit board tother day, buttons only soldered in and had worked loose...and it now works 8-)


But now that you mention it, any progress on the loom front. 

[Kevin Wood]

The big problem is that the GSM signal is so minute and any joins in the feeder cable create massive signal losses. On the upside the Telematics is a full Class II (Up to 8W) device as far as I have been able to find out.

I can measure one and tell you what power class it is if you like?

Kevin

I believe its either a 4w or 8w device...  ...even Vodafone works here on the Telematics (except those tosspots at Vodafone have disabled my SIM, and I really cannot be bothered to ring those retards up)

Nokia designation is NTE-2RH, I have a couple of units that Josh has borrowed if you want to have a look at one. I also have another one here that I need to have a dabble with but will probably end up with TB to experiment on!

I wonder if they'll do anything without the whole 2015 shebang plugged in?  :-/

Kevin

[VXL V6]

Like a HF Car kit / Carphone there isn't that many connections.

+12V perm, 0V, Line Audio out, Audio in via amplified Mic, Can High, Can Low, Diag line.

No switched 12v so guess it losses the CAN connection and drops off to sleep after a minute or so.

Off the connector used for above there are pins for a seperate handset with the expected signals + hook. Works with the standard Nokia Privacy handset HSU-1 when you make up the appropriate loom (RJ45 socket req to plug in handset)

SMB (IIRC) connector for Antenna

There is a block of 6 pins on a seperate connector that I'm not sure of there purpose
 
EDIT: ...and i'm guessing without the CAN signal the unit won't do a lot in answer to your question!

[Kevin Wood]

EDIT: ...and i'm guessing without the CAN signal the unit won't do a lot in answer to your question!

Probably not. I might dig out some test gear when chrisgixer gets intimidated by the soldering iron and offers me a "solder for curry" deal.

Kevin

[VXL V6]

EDIT: ...and i'm guessing without the CAN signal the unit won't do a lot in answer to your question!

Probably not. I might dig out some test gear when chrisgixer gets intimidated by the soldering iron and offers me a "solder for curry" deal.

Kevin

When Josh returns my collection of Telematics your welcome to have them to disect in the pursuit of knowledge!

[TheBoy]

EDIT: ...and i'm guessing without the CAN signal the unit won't do a lot in answer to your question!

Probably not. I might dig out some test gear when chrisgixer gets intimidated by the soldering iron and offers me a "solder for curry" deal.

Kevin

When Josh returns my collection of Telematics your welcome to have them to disect in the pursuit of knowledge!

They are in my garage...

1 works about 1% of the time, the other is dead.

[VXL V6]

I have a third one here that seems to power up ok but I haven't had any time to look any further at it.

[feeutfo]

Telematics/curry party then? 

[Entwood]

Telematics/curry/grovel for my post count back party then? 

 

[feeutfo]

Telematics/curry/grovel for my post count back party then? 

 

Grovel?  I think not.   

[Kevin Wood]

Telematics/curry/grovel for my post count back party then? 

 

Grovel?  I think not.   

Ooh! Look at that.   Good job I made a note of it for you, eh?

Kevin

[feeutfo]

Telematics/curry/grovel for my post count back party then? 

 

Grovel?  I think not.   

Ooh! Look at that.   Good job I made a note of it for you, eh?

Kevin

Indeed, in fact, if you where quiet about it, and didn't tell anyone, you could go back and edit that too.... 20k perhaps?  . 

I know your too nice a chap to make it less...! 

[Kevin Wood]

Telematics/curry/grovel for my post count back party then? 

 

Grovel?  I think not.   

Ooh! Look at that.   Good job I made a note of it for you, eh?

Kevin

Indeed, in fact, if you where quiet about it, and didn't tell anyone, you could go back and edit that too.... 20k perhaps?  . 

I know your too nice a chap to make it less...! 

I doubt it would go unnoticed, TBH. There's a post-it note somewhere with the correct number on, I'm sure.

Kevin

[feeutfo]

Telematics/curry/grovel for my post count back party then? 

 

Grovel?  I think not.   

Ooh! Look at that.   Good job I made a note of it for you, eh?

Kevin

Indeed, in fact, if you where quiet about it, and didn't tell anyone, you could go back and edit that too.... 20k perhaps?  . 

I know your too nice a chap to make it less...! 

I doubt it would go unnoticed, TBH. There's a post-it note somewhere with the correct number on, I'm sure.

Kevin

Oh dont worry, i am quite sure that will get "lost" somehow, everyone elses does.  .   

[TheBoy]

Telematics/curry/grovel for my post count back party then? 

 

Grovel?  I think not.   

Ooh! Look at that.   Good job I made a note of it for you, eh?

Kevin

Indeed, in fact, if you where quiet about it, and didn't tell anyone, you could go back and edit that too.... 20k perhaps?  . 

I know your too nice a chap to make it less...! 

I doubt it would go unnoticed, TBH. There's a post-it note somewhere with the correct number on, I'm sure.

Kevin

Don't bet on it - with my current disposition, I am using lots of paper - anything I can find - and sending it off to Anglian Water....   

[Kevin Wood]

Telematics/curry/grovel for my post count back party then? 

 

Grovel?  I think not.   

Ooh! Look at that.   Good job I made a note of it for you, eh?

Kevin

Indeed, in fact, if you where quiet about it, and didn't tell anyone, you could go back and edit that too.... 20k perhaps?  . 

I know your too nice a chap to make it less...! 

I doubt it would go unnoticed, TBH. There's a post-it note somewhere with the correct number on, I'm sure.

Kevin

Don't bet on it - with my current disposition, I am using lots of paper - anything I can find - and sending it off to Anglian Water....   

.. together with an offering from the cat's litter tray?

Kevin

[VXL V6]

...and moving back on track....

Happy to make up a loom for you Chris, I have a Trafficmaster loom here that will be the basis but you'll need to get hold of a Telematics connector for me to progress it. Best place would be ebay.de to find one.

[feeutfo]

...and moving back on track....

Happy to make up a loom for you Chris, I have a Trafficmaster loom here that will be the basis but you'll need to get hold of a Telematics connector for me to progress it. Best place would be ebay.de to find one.

Very kind. 
I have connector, and a couple of others, from RobG.

There are some complications though.....   

[VXL V6]

There still attached to the car? 

[feeutfo]

Actually i better post some pics of the plugs i have to be sure.

They came off a car with 2013, so no telematics, but isnt the telematics plug common to the cid, or something like? I have the ones to cid, and got the plug to head unit for an uphill garden ipod thingy for wiring referance. Plus i have a tm box and loom to go in as well.

Would like to fit telemstics in rear boot first aid cupboard if poss, along with bose amp to remove the shelf.

[feeutfo]

And i better check the roof arial connectors as well.

[VXL V6]

Actually i better post some pics of the plugs i have to be sure.

They came off a car with 2013, so no telematics, but isnt the telematics plug common to the cid, or something like? I have the ones to cid, and got the plug to head unit for an uphill garden ipod thingy for wiring referance. Plus i have a tm box and loom to go in as well.

Would like to fit telemstics in rear boot first aid cupboard if poss, along with bose amp to remove the shelf.

Yes but not sure the shroud is, can get around that though.

Best answer to the relocation will be to put a more common connector on the tails from the Trafficmaster loom under the glovebox kick panel, can then make up a long loom to route down the nearside sill that just needs plugging in at both ends. If you want to relocate the Telematics to the glovebox then just need to remove the loom and shorten it.

Boot location also makes aerial connection a little simpler. 

Don't worry about the aerial connections, I know what connector your car will have.

[feeutfo]

Actually i better post some pics of the plugs i have to be sure.

They came off a car with 2013, so no telematics, but isnt the telematics plug common to the cid, or something like? I have the ones to cid, and got the plug to head unit for an uphill garden ipod thingy for wiring referance. Plus i have a tm box and loom to go in as well.

Would like to fit telemstics in rear boot first aid cupboard if poss, along with bose amp to remove the shelf.

Yes but not sure the shroud is, can get around that though.

Best answer to the relocation will be to put a more common connector on the tails from the Trafficmaster loom under the glovebox kick panel, can then make up a long loom to route down the nearside sill that just needs plugging in at both ends. If you want to relocate the Telematics to the glovebox then just need to remove the loom and shorten it.

Boot location also makes aerial connection a little simpler. 

Don't worry about the aerial connections, I know what connector your car will have.

Good news re plug and everything. 

I'll post some pics of plugs later, i think i know where they are. 

[TheBoy]

Grey CID/GID/Later MID connector for tm, might have to move some of the pins about.

[TheBoy]

But Omega glovebox has no use, so may as well do it the easy way

[feeutfo]

These are the plugs...?

[VXL V6]

Grey CID/GID/Later MID connector for tm, might have to move some of the pins about.

Yep, tend to remove any of the unused pins and tails to keep the loom thickness down.

Have used the Blue shroud off the climate panel by carefuly triming one of the keys, allowed the clamp to lock down at least.

[TheBoy]

These are the plugs...?

One on left is missing its latch...

[feeutfo]

These are the plugs...?

One on left is missing its latch...

Yeah, was missing on previous cars CID plug too. Stayed in no problem on that.  :-/

[VXL V6]

Blue ISO block can be binned.

Pop the two grey connectors in the post to me and i'll return anything that isn't used with the loom.

[TheBoy]

Blue ISO block can be binned.

Pop the two grey connectors in the post to me and i'll return anything that isn't used with the loom.

Keep the blue block, always handy, esp as it has latches on still

[feeutfo]

Pm sent Andy. 

I only took the blue block as a referance for the hramen garden wiring, I need to replicate it.

In case it's relevant, ultimately intend to fit

 traffic master, I have the bits for that.
Harmen garden iPod emulator.
Telematics and boss amp to first aid boot cupboard.
Ac cooled glove box. (yeah right  )
iPhone mounted near CID currently inter fears with CID. (not relevant here)

[VXL V6]

Pm sent Andy. 

I only took the blue block as a referance for the hramen garden wiring, I need to replicate it.

In case it's relevant, ultimately intend to fit

 traffic master, I have the bits for that.
Harmen garden iPod emulator.
Telematics and boss amp to first aid boot cupboard.
Ac cooled glove box. (yeah right  )
iPhone mounted near CID currently inter fears with CID. (not relevant here)

Well will be making the loom based on a Trafficmaster loom so will leave the trafficmaster connector on so you can just plug in the box when ready (nb. if you have another phone kit fitted and don't have the trafficmaster box plugged in you will have to loop the mute line across).

So if you are sending me both grey plugs do you want me to make two looms? One full length to boot/first aid compartment and one short length for glovebox?

[feeutfo]

Pm sent Andy. 

I only took the blue block as a referance for the hramen garden wiring, I need to replicate it.

In case it's relevant, ultimately intend to fit

 traffic master, I have the bits for that.
Harmen garden iPod emulator.
Telematics and boss amp to first aid boot cupboard.
Ac cooled glove box. (yeah right  )
iPhone mounted near CID currently inter fears with CID. (not relevant here)

Well will be making the loom based on a Trafficmaster loom so will leave the trafficmaster connector on so you can just plug in the box when ready (nb. if you have another phone kit fitted and don't have the trafficmaster box plugged in you will have to loop the mute line across).

So if you are sending me both grey plugs do you want me to make two looms? One full length to boot/first aid compartment and one short length for glovebox?

Yes please, is my traffic master loom of use in that case?

[VXL V6]

Pm sent Andy. 

I only took the blue block as a referance for the hramen garden wiring, I need to replicate it.

In case it's relevant, ultimately intend to fit

 traffic master, I have the bits for that.
Harmen garden iPod emulator.
Telematics and boss amp to first aid boot cupboard.
Ac cooled glove box. (yeah right  )
iPhone mounted near CID currently inter fears with CID. (not relevant here)

Well will be making the loom based on a Trafficmaster loom so will leave the trafficmaster connector on so you can just plug in the box when ready (nb. if you have another phone kit fitted and don't have the trafficmaster box plugged in you will have to loop the mute line across).

So if you are sending me both grey plugs do you want me to make two looms? One full length to boot/first aid compartment and one short length for glovebox?

Yes please, is my traffic master loom of use in that case?

Trafficmaster loom always useful to TB or I!