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[gazsomega]

follow this link ive had some they great and look realy good and alot cheaper than buying the unit and easy to fit

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140267417600&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fshop.ebay.co.uk%3A80%2F%3F_from%3DR40%26_trksid%3Dm38%26_nkw%3D140267417600%2B%2B%26_fvi%3D1

[JonArgraig]

Got my set up from ebay for half that...


Though don't forget they are to some degree illegal unless you have the washes and the self leveling to suit...

Which I have, honest...

[gazsomega]

realy i didnt no thought looks like ill have to get that as weill i have the manual ajusters inside the car how come this is illegal and i search everyware was it a shop ware you had them from

[TheBoy]

realy i didnt no thought looks like ill have to get that as weill i have the manual ajusters inside the car how come this is illegal and i search everyware was it a shop ware you had them from

http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1199707220

[gazsomega]

bugger me didnt no though that think ill risk it and upgrade and get some whashers at least thanks for that

[Marks DTM Calib]

bugger me didnt no though that think ill risk it and upgrade and get some whashers at least thanks for that

Not actually illegal.....as long as the bulbs have the correct approvals then washers etc are not required for aftermarket fit.

[gazsomega]

do you happen to no how to fing this out then

[TheBoy]

bugger me didnt no though that think ill risk it and upgrade and get some whashers at least thanks for that

Not actually illegal.....as long as the bulbs have the correct approvals then washers etc are not required for aftermarket fit.

http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roadsafety/drs/hidheadlamps

2. Once fitted to the vehicle it must have headlamp cleaning and self-levelling

[Marks DTM Calib]

bugger me didnt no though that think ill risk it and upgrade and get some whashers at least thanks for that

Not actually illegal.....as long as the bulbs have the correct approvals then washers etc are not required for aftermarket fit.

http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roadsafety/drs/hidheadlamps

2. Once fitted to the vehicle it must have headlamp cleaning and self-levelling

Yes but, read it carefuly.

It transpires that there are no regulations for aftermarket HID fitment and that particular statement is trying to close up something the DfT are not keen on, hence why it is a fact sheet.......

The legal side of things relates to correct approval codes on the bulbs and nothing else and hence legaly you could fit them to the projector style headlights......

[Mr Skrunts]

Getting confused.

Therefore a HID headlamp unit sold in the after market should:

1. be type approved to ECE Regulation 98 as a component.

2. when fitted to the vehicle should enable ECE Regulation 48 to be complied with (although no government inspection will take place).

3. Comply with RVLR as far as "use" is concerned.

In practice this means:

1. The headlamp unit (outer lens, reflector, bulb) shall be type approved to ECE 98 and be "e-marked" to demonstrate this. That can only be done by the headlamp supplier - Hella, Valeo etc. who must test the headlamp in an independent laboratory.

2. Once fitted to the vehicle it must have headlamp cleaning and self-levelling (which can be for the headlamp or can be in the vehicle suspension - some expensive estate cars have "self-levelling suspension" and that is adequate). Also the dipped beam must stay on with the main beam.

3. The headlamp must be maintained in good working order, kept clean, and aligned/adjusted correctly like any other headlamp.

Under the Road Traffic Act 1988 it is an offence to supply, fit or use vehicle parts which are not legal.

[TheBoy]

bugger me didnt no though that think ill risk it and upgrade and get some whashers at least thanks for that

Not actually illegal.....as long as the bulbs have the correct approvals then washers etc are not required for aftermarket fit.

http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roadsafety/drs/hidheadlamps

2. Once fitted to the vehicle it must have headlamp cleaning and self-levelling

Yes but, read it carefuly.

It transpires that there are no regulations for aftermarket HID fitment and that particular statement is trying to close up something the DfT are not keen on, hence why it is a fact sheet.......

The legal side of things relates to correct approval codes on the bulbs and nothing else and hence legaly you could fit them to the projector style headlights......

Thought the approval was specific to lenses/reflector/bulb as a unit? Or have I misread?



In practice this means:

1. The headlamp unit (outer lens, reflector, bulb) shall be type approved to ECE 98 and be "e-marked" to demonstrate this. That can only be done by the headlamp supplier - Hella, Valeo etc. who must test the headlamp in an independent laboratory.

2. Once fitted to the vehicle it must have headlamp cleaning and self-levelling (which can be for the headlamp or can be in the vehicle suspension - some expensive estate cars have "self-levelling suspension" and that is adequate). Also the dipped beam must stay on with the main beam.

3. The headlamp must be maintained in good working order, kept clean, and aligned/adjusted correctly like any other headlamp.

Under the Road Traffic Act 1988 it is an offence to supply, fit or use vehicle parts which are not legal.

In summary it is not permitted to convert an existing halogen headlamp unit for use with HID bulbs. The entire headlamp unit must be replaced with one designed and approved for use with HID bulbs and it must be installed in accordance with the rules stated above.

The highlighted must surely mean the 3 points above need to be followed for retrofits?

Grey area indeed....   :-/

[Marks DTM Calib]

Exactly.....the rules are very clear for new vehicle approvals.........and very clear for bulbs etc with the correct approvals but, there is nothing regarding meeting the 'new vehicle approvals standards' for after market fit.

Its not something the Police can enforce if the bulbs have the correct markings

Its not something that will fail an MOT....

[TheBoy]

Exactly.....the rules are very clear for new vehicle approvals.........and very clear for bulbs etc with the correct approvals but, there is nothing regarding meeting the 'new vehicle approvals standards' for after market fit.

Its not something the Police can enforce if the bulbs have the correct markings

Its not something that will fail an MOT....

But the highlighted bit above, from DFT site, hence what VOSA will use, and thus surely what Police will could enforce, clearly states the headlamp etc to be appropriately marked, but also must be properly maintained (obviously), and have washing/levelling  :-/

Agree that not MOT related, and if set up sensibly, be unlucky to get pulled for it...

[Marks DTM Calib]

Exactly.....the rules are very clear for new vehicle approvals.........and very clear for bulbs etc with the correct approvals but, there is nothing regarding meeting the 'new vehicle approvals standards' for after market fit.

Its not something the Police can enforce if the bulbs have the correct markings

Its not something that will fail an MOT....

But the highlighted bit above, from DFT site, hence what VOSA will use, and thus surely what Police will could enforce, clearly states the headlamp etc to be appropriately marked, but also must be properly maintained (obviously), and have washing/levelling  :-/

Agree that not MOT related, and if set up sensibly, be unlucky to get pulled for it...

As said, the DfT site states it as a factsheet...........and not a rule.

What they are trying to do is make people think twice by quoting the original vehicle approvals requirement because legislation does not cover this grey area!

The headlamp assembly markings for HID setups are:

DLSCR
  OO
  E4
 2439

The only bit that changes is the top 5 letters for non-HID......not the E4!

I suspect the police will check for the E marking and nothing else and he same for the bulbs (but thats irrelivant).

As said, I can not find any law or MOT test that stops its use.

[TheBoy]

Exactly.....the rules are very clear for new vehicle approvals.........and very clear for bulbs etc with the correct approvals but, there is nothing regarding meeting the 'new vehicle approvals standards' for after market fit.

Its not something the Police can enforce if the bulbs have the correct markings

Its not something that will fail an MOT....

But the highlighted bit above, from DFT site, hence what VOSA will use, and thus surely what Police will could enforce, clearly states the headlamp etc to be appropriately marked, but also must be properly maintained (obviously), and have washing/levelling  :-/

Agree that not MOT related, and if set up sensibly, be unlucky to get pulled for it...

As said, the DfT site states it as a factsheet...........and not a rule.

What they are trying to do is make people think twice by quoting the original vehicle approvals requirement because legislation does not cover this grey area!

The headlamp assembly markings for HID setups are:

DLSCR
  OO
  E4
 2439

The only bit that changes is the top 5 letters for non-HID......not the E4!

I suspect the police will check for the E marking and nothing else and he same for the bulbs (but thats irrelivant).

As said, I can not find any law or MOT test that stops its use.

The highway code is not law, but expect to get pulled for disobeying it

Your right, looks like its not covered in law, but is covered by that factsheet reasonably well. VOSA will go by dft view, and Police surely will obey VOSA?

Yes, they are looking like they are suggesting the rules for retrofit are supposed to match that for new cars, which sounds reasonable to me?

Seems also that there are no laws for new cars, again only EU guidelines?

[MutantCav]

Seems to suggest the elites self levelling suspension will be all thats needed rather than the headlight adjusters?? So then you just need the washers if you have that...

[TheBoy]

Seems to suggest the elites self levelling suspension will be all thats needed rather than the headlight adjusters?? So then you just need the washers if you have that...

All Elites have washers .

So, for Elites, to comply with the DfT factsheet, you just need HID headlamp units/ballasts (note, the factsheet seems to specifically say HID upgrade kits using original headlamp units are not permitted)

[Marks DTM Calib]

Exactly.....the rules are very clear for new vehicle approvals.........and very clear for bulbs etc with the correct approvals but, there is nothing regarding meeting the 'new vehicle approvals standards' for after market fit.

Its not something the Police can enforce if the bulbs have the correct markings

Its not something that will fail an MOT....

But the highlighted bit above, from DFT site, hence what VOSA will use, and thus surely what Police will could enforce, clearly states the headlamp etc to be appropriately marked, but also must be properly maintained (obviously), and have washing/levelling  :-/

Agree that not MOT related, and if set up sensibly, be unlucky to get pulled for it...

As said, the DfT site states it as a factsheet...........and not a rule.

What they are trying to do is make people think twice by quoting the original vehicle approvals requirement because legislation does not cover this grey area!

The headlamp assembly markings for HID setups are:

DLSCR
  OO
  E4
 2439

The only bit that changes is the top 5 letters for non-HID......not the E4!

I suspect the police will check for the E marking and nothing else and he same for the bulbs (but thats irrelivant).

As said, I can not find any law or MOT test that stops its use.

The highway code is not law, but expect to get pulled for disobeying it

Your right, looks like its not covered in law, but is covered by that factsheet reasonably well. VOSA will go by dft view, and Police surely will obey VOSA?

Yes, they are looking like they are suggesting the rules for retrofit are supposed to match that for new cars, which sounds reasonable to me?

Seems also that there are no laws for new cars, again only EU guidelines?

Quite the contary, new cars have specific specs to meet (there are loads, all freely available)

VOSA will not go by DfT view, if they did they would be failing cars with an engine greater than 38cc and we would all be getting a pull for having big engines!

[TheBoy]

Quite the contary, new cars have specific specs to meet (there are loads, all freely available)

VOSA will not go by DfT view, if they did they would be failing cars with an engine greater than 38cc and we would all be getting a pull for having big engines!

LOL, true, except they would be banned in favour of Electric, which of course (if you're a greeny) uses no hydrocarbon based fuels, as electric is all magic.


Back to the debate in hand:
In summary it is not permitted to convert an existing halogen headlamp unit for use with HID bulbs. The entire headlamp unit must be replaced with one designed and approved for use with HID bulbs and it must be installed in accordance with the rules stated above

is fairly strong wording.  The Highway Code, again not law, if you do something that is not permitted you would expect a man in a dark suit with a bright yellow jacket to point out the error of your ways?

[tunnie]

i would actually like HIDs on mine, the halogen ones are ok, but compared to the HIDS in my mums Elite, its no contest.

Can you buy the washers for facelifts (just the jet?)

For facelifts looks like the bumper needs drilled for the jets, my washer bottle already has the loom for it...

[TheBoy]

i would actually like HIDs on mine, the halogen ones are ok, but compared to the HIDS in my mums Elite, its no contest.

Can you buy the washers for facelifts (just the jet?)

For facelifts looks like the bumper needs drilled for the jets, my washer bottle already has the loom for it...

Yes, you can by the jets and pump seperately.

Of course, to comply with the DfT factsheet, you are missing any levelling....

[tunnie]

i would actually like HIDs on mine, the halogen ones are ok, but compared to the HIDS in my mums Elite, its no contest.

Can you buy the washers for facelifts (just the jet?)

For facelifts looks like the bumper needs drilled for the jets, my washer bottle already has the loom for it...

Yes, you can by the jets and pump seperately.

Of course, to comply with the DfT factsheet, you are missing any levelling....

Its the one thing i really would like from the Elites, also given winter is comming and i drive home at night, both going to work and comming home.

The levelling comes of the self leveling shocks at the back?

Are adjustments made under 'normal' driving, or does it only adjust when fat people are in the back?

[TheBoy]

i would actually like HIDs on mine, the halogen ones are ok, but compared to the HIDS in my mums Elite, its no contest.

Can you buy the washers for facelifts (just the jet?)

For facelifts looks like the bumper needs drilled for the jets, my washer bottle already has the loom for it...

Yes, you can by the jets and pump seperately.

Of course, to comply with the DfT factsheet, you are missing any levelling....

Its the one thing i really would like from the Elites, also given winter is comming and i drive home at night, both going to work and comming home.

The levelling comes of the self leveling shocks at the back?

Are adjustments made under 'normal' driving, or does it only adjust when fat people are in the back?

The suspension levelling is continuously dynamic.  Its quite slow to react (seconds).  The headlight levelling on HID equipped cars is much faster <0.5s

[Marks DTM Calib]

i would actually like HIDs on mine, the halogen ones are ok, but compared to the HIDS in my mums Elite, its no contest.

Can you buy the washers for facelifts (just the jet?)

For facelifts looks like the bumper needs drilled for the jets, my washer bottle already has the loom for it...

Yes, you can by the jets and pump seperately.

Of course, to comply with the DfT factsheet, you are missing any levelling....

Trouble is that its not the DfT that would set the regs anyway!

Here is an extract from another forum where the author has done some more hands on research

I contacted VOSA and they could not indicate to me any legal issues with headlights so i contacted the police. The police's view was that as long as they did not dazzle oncomming traffic they would be fine and even if they did they would ask that the light be tested at a MOT station and if they passed then they would be happy. So lastly i contacted a local MOT station. They stated that all they are asked to test is the beam level and ensure that the brightness is above a certain level. So i installed the HID lights and hade the beams carefully adjusted. The car went straight down to the MOT station and passed.
 
I was very concious of the extra brighness and have tested the lights by having friends parked up and me driving past in the other direction and the lights are fine nd don't dazzle.
 
Whilst the theory of self leveling lights work, the reality is that they don't work. They don't make adjustments for speed bumps and crests and it is these that dazzle on comming cars. I am also very aware of HID lights and can spot both OEM and retro fit lights. IMO it is the OEM cars that are the worst cluprets for dazzling you. In particular Chelsea Tractors. Just driving down the road every X5, Porsche Cayanne, VW Tourag blind me and non of these cars will have a retro kit fitted.

[tunnie]

i would actually like HIDs on mine, the halogen ones are ok, but compared to the HIDS in my mums Elite, its no contest.

Can you buy the washers for facelifts (just the jet?)

For facelifts looks like the bumper needs drilled for the jets, my washer bottle already has the loom for it...

Yes, you can by the jets and pump seperately.

Of course, to comply with the DfT factsheet, you are missing any levelling....

Trouble is that its not the DfT that would set the regs anyway!

Here is an extract from another forum where the author has done some more hands on research

I contacted VOSA and they could not indicate to me any legal issues with headlights so i contacted the police. The police's view was that as long as they did not dazzle oncomming traffic they would be fine and even if they did they would ask that the light be tested at a MOT station and if they passed then they would be happy. So lastly i contacted a local MOT station. They stated that all they are asked to test is the beam level and ensure that the brightness is above a certain level. So i installed the HID lights and hade the beams carefully adjusted. The car went straight down to the MOT station and passed.
 
I was very concious of the extra brighness and have tested the lights by having friends parked up and me driving past in the other direction and the lights are fine nd don't dazzle.
 
Whilst the theory of self leveling lights work, the reality is that they don't work. They don't make adjustments for speed bumps and crests and it is these that dazzle on comming cars. I am also very aware of HID lights and can spot both OEM and retro fit lights. IMO it is the OEM cars that are the worst cluprets for dazzling you. In particular Chelsea Tractors. Just driving down the road every X5, Porsche Cayanne, VW Tourag blind me and non of these cars will have a retro kit fitted.

Very temping then for me to fit them, does any electrical wiring need to be done to account for the extra power they use?

[Marks DTM Calib]

i would actually like HIDs on mine, the halogen ones are ok, but compared to the HIDS in my mums Elite, its no contest.

Can you buy the washers for facelifts (just the jet?)

For facelifts looks like the bumper needs drilled for the jets, my washer bottle already has the loom for it...

Yes, you can by the jets and pump seperately.

Of course, to comply with the DfT factsheet, you are missing any levelling....

Trouble is that its not the DfT that would set the regs anyway!

Here is an extract from another forum where the author has done some more hands on research

I contacted VOSA and they could not indicate to me any legal issues with headlights so i contacted the police. The police's view was that as long as they did not dazzle oncomming traffic they would be fine and even if they did they would ask that the light be tested at a MOT station and if they passed then they would be happy. So lastly i contacted a local MOT station. They stated that all they are asked to test is the beam level and ensure that the brightness is above a certain level. So i installed the HID lights and hade the beams carefully adjusted. The car went straight down to the MOT station and passed.
 
I was very concious of the extra brighness and have tested the lights by having friends parked up and me driving past in the other direction and the lights are fine nd don't dazzle.
 
Whilst the theory of self leveling lights work, the reality is that they don't work. They don't make adjustments for speed bumps and crests and it is these that dazzle on comming cars. I am also very aware of HID lights and can spot both OEM and retro fit lights. IMO it is the OEM cars that are the worst cluprets for dazzling you. In particular Chelsea Tractors. Just driving down the road every X5, Porsche Cayanne, VW Tourag blind me and non of these cars will have a retro kit fitted.

Very temping then for me to fit them, does any electrical wiring need to be done to account for the extra power they use?

They use less power!

[tunnie]

i would actually like HIDs on mine, the halogen ones are ok, but compared to the HIDS in my mums Elite, its no contest.

Can you buy the washers for facelifts (just the jet?)

For facelifts looks like the bumper needs drilled for the jets, my washer bottle already has the loom for it...

Yes, you can by the jets and pump seperately.

Of course, to comply with the DfT factsheet, you are missing any levelling....

Trouble is that its not the DfT that would set the regs anyway!

Here is an extract from another forum where the author has done some more hands on research

I contacted VOSA and they could not indicate to me any legal issues with headlights so i contacted the police. The police's view was that as long as they did not dazzle oncomming traffic they would be fine and even if they did they would ask that the light be tested at a MOT station and if they passed then they would be happy. So lastly i contacted a local MOT station. They stated that all they are asked to test is the beam level and ensure that the brightness is above a certain level. So i installed the HID lights and hade the beams carefully adjusted. The car went straight down to the MOT station and passed.
 
I was very concious of the extra brighness and have tested the lights by having friends parked up and me driving past in the other direction and the lights are fine nd don't dazzle.
 
Whilst the theory of self leveling lights work, the reality is that they don't work. They don't make adjustments for speed bumps and crests and it is these that dazzle on comming cars. I am also very aware of HID lights and can spot both OEM and retro fit lights. IMO it is the OEM cars that are the worst cluprets for dazzling you. In particular Chelsea Tractors. Just driving down the road every X5, Porsche Cayanne, VW Tourag blind me and non of these cars will have a retro kit fitted.

Very temping then for me to fit them, does any electrical wiring need to be done to account for the extra power they use?

They use less power!

Eh? Where did it hear they used more then  :-/ - Shows how much i know...

So its just plug and play really?

[Marks DTM Calib]

Yes.

THE only concern I have is that the plastic adjusters are more pone to failure in the headlights on HID equipped cars, I suspect this might be due to UV damage.

Other than that.....just fit em

[gazsomega]

well ive just orderd some whasher jets every thing from the pump threw to the suround on the car ware the jets fits for £30 it was from an elite so i maybe breaking someones rules someware but at least i have the jets to and they may just let me go if i get stoped but my mates going to set my lights up as he works in a garage and ill take it from there
yet my mate has self leveling lights in his mini i only ever see them move when he starts it and thats it yet my brother in law has a freelander and his lights turn into the corner before you do as you can see those move but im not sure if they level themselfs

[Omegatoy]

dont know if it helps guys but my car had to go for a Vosa check after an "incident" where they basically carried out  STRICT MOT
as i fitted Hids 2 years ago thought it may be a it dodgy but the guy passed it no problem and asked me if i found much difference?
dont have headlight washers either and clean them once in a blue moon
so just fit if you want them!!

[tunnie]

dont know if it helps guys but my car had to go for a Vosa check after an "incident" where they basically carried out  STRICT MOT
as i fitted Hids 2 years ago thought it may be a it dodgy but the guy passed it no problem and asked me if i found much difference?
dont have headlight washers either and clean them once in a blue moon
so just fit if you want them!!

How long you back for? fancy helping to fit some to mine?  

[gazsomega]

bit like me then ive fitted them and im just going to act thick like i do with my number plate only had 1 fine been stopped 4 times with it as they say you carnt read it properly

[TheBoy]

I've had a response from DfT, and they say the factsheet is their interpretation of the current laws in place.

I am awaiting further information from them, so hopefully we can get definative answers on this recurring debate once and for all.

[davlad22]

dont know if it helps guys but my car had to go for a Vosa check after an "incident" where they basically carried out  STRICT MOT
as i fitted Hids 2 years ago thought it may be a it dodgy but the guy passed it no problem and asked me if i found much difference?
dont have headlight washers either and clean them once in a blue moon
so just fit if you want them!!

How long you back for? fancy helping to fit some to mine?  

Piece of piss tunnie, follow my guide below....

http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1215199837

....which I wonder if it will make it to the official section!   I await DFT's reply Jaime!

[TheBoy]

dont know if it helps guys but my car had to go for a Vosa check after an "incident" where they basically carried out  STRICT MOT
as i fitted Hids 2 years ago thought it may be a it dodgy but the guy passed it no problem and asked me if i found much difference?
dont have headlight washers either and clean them once in a blue moon
so just fit if you want them!!

How long you back for? fancy helping to fit some to mine?  

Piece of piss tunnie, follow my guide below....

http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1215199837

....which I wonder if it will make it to the official section!   I await DFT's reply Jaime!

It won't - the aftermarket kits are definately not legal.

Whilst there may be some grey areas with relation to washers/levelling (though not according to DfT), aftermarket upgrades for fitment into halogen headlights are much more clear cut - it is illegal to sell, fit, or use these on the UK roads.