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[chrisgixer]

Looking at a move to an even more rural location than NotReading. 

Small village, 2meg phone line connection max, and water is about the only things connected up.


Its oil fired heating, and a septic tank. Anyone know the annual costs of these? My Mum had to move to a smaller house once due to oil costs partly. So I'm a bit concerned.

Would converting to lpg heating be cheaper? Depends on instal costs I guess.

[RossPhim]

Oil fired should be fine as long as bolier is  reasonably efficient.
My BIL has the oil, and I think he is around £400 per year for oil

Septic tank again should be fine, but depends on size & condition, and should only need emptied every couple of years or so.
Is the septic tank shared?
I would assume that costs to empty range greatly between areas but up here its around the £300 mark.

If interested I would ask seller for proof of bills for these items.

HTH

[aaronjb]

Crikey Chris, where are you moving to?

The 2Mbit broadband would be the killer for me..

[Varche]

My Mum and Dad have a two bed bungalow that they heat to inferno level by oil. Their usage is about £500 to £600 a year. They only have a 1000 litre tank and have to run it to very nearly empty before the tanker will deliver. I would check the size of tank as delivery under such conditions is a pain.

We live in the countryside with no hard wired Internet. We have satellite Internet from Tooway. http://www.bentley-walker.com/tooway/tooway_home.php  It is fast and reliable but has monthly limits. 2Meg would be no good for streaming TV.

Septic tanks. The words cover a multitude of applications from a hole in the ground to sophisticated systems with multi chambers. They do require a more holistic approach to use. e.g. not a good idea to flush nappies down the loo, can't use domestos and other harsh chemical cleaners. Similarly not a good idea to flush grease and fats down sink (just wipe out and bin with kitchen roll). It becomes a way of life. If you wouldn't eat or drink it don't flush it

[aaronjb]

If you wouldn't eat or drink it don't flush it

    Remind me not to eat any chocolate if I'm ever at your house.. especially not if it looks like it has corn in it

[Kevin Wood]

.. and LPG heating won't be cheaper. Both are around 50p a litre currently, but heating oil delivers about 1.5 times as much energy per litre. Also, having an LPG tank usually ties you in to one supplier (= over a barrel) whereas you can shop around freely for heating oil. That's before we consider the siting requirements for an LPG tank. Mind, if you could fill your Omega up from it...

Septic tank is pretty much a non-issue if it's working OK, as said. Periodic emptying required but you should almost make the cost back on not having to pay for sewerage on your water bill.. Only issue is if you inherit a tank that's falling apart so get it surveyed.

[redelitev6]

Also factor in extra transport costs , and if it's really remote what's it like in winter ? councils grit/clear main roads , if you're off the beaten track you could be in trouble getting out and about .

[scimmy_man]

just dont do the townie thing of putting lots of outdoor lights up the first week, cos its dark in the outback..

you soon get used to it.

[Andy B]

just dont do the townie thing of putting lots of outdoor lights up the first week, cos its dark in the outback..

you soon get used to it.

When you live in the town & get used to street lighting etc, you don't appreciate how dark it gets at night in the sticks.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Looking at a move to an even more rural location than NotReading. 

Small village, 2meg phone line connection max, and water is about the only things connected up.


Its oil fired heating, and a septic tank. Anyone know the annual costs of these? My Mum had to move to a smaller house once due to oil costs partly. So I'm a bit concerned.

Would converting to lpg heating be cheaper? Depends on instal costs I guess.

The cost depends on how many people you have in the house and how often you take a dump.

We pay about £70 to have it emptied. Shop around because prices vary greatly.

Water bills will be less because you have the septic tank.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Bottled gas is expensive.

We pay about £50 for each 47 KG propane.

Again, shop around because prices vary greatly.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Heating oil is also expensive.

About £600 for 1000 litres the last time we bought some.

Again......shop around.

[redelitev6]

just dont do the townie thing of putting lots of outdoor lights up the first week, cos its dark in the outback..

you soon get used to it.

When you live in the town & get used to street lighting etc, you don't appreciate how dark it gets at night in the sticks.

  You got that right , we out in the wilds of Northumberland coming back from Edinburgh late one night , I never knew it could get so dark ! , quite scary actually   

[chrisgixer]

just dont do the townie thing of putting lots of outdoor lights up the first week, cos its dark in the outback..

you soon get used to it.

When you live in the town & get used to street lighting etc, you don't appreciate how dark it gets at night in the sticks.

Indeed. A member here has no street lights outside their house, it's quite a shock to realise you can't see your hand in front of your face until your eyes get used to the dark. iPhone torch to the rescue.

...and before certain members scoff at the iPhone torch, I've been offered "a proper torch" on occasion when rummaging around engine bays and couldn't see a damn thing with it.

[Kevin Wood]

Indeed. A member here has no street lights outside their house, it's quite a shock to realise you can't see your hand in front of your face until your eyes get used to the dark. iPhone torch to the rescue.

...and before certain members scoff at the iPhone torch, I've been offered "a proper torch" on occasion when rummaging around engine bays and couldn't see a damn thing with it.

They have a little switch on the side for that.. and there's no "app". 

[chrisgixer]

Heating oil is also expensive.

About £600 for 1000 litres the last time we bought some.

Again......shop around.

How long does that last in Opti mansions, Opti?

[chrisgixer]

Indeed. A member here has no street lights outside their house, it's quite a shock to realise you can't see your hand in front of your face until your eyes get used to the dark. iPhone torch to the rescue.

...and before certain members scoff at the iPhone torch, I've been offered "a proper torch" on occasion when rummaging around engine bays and couldn't see a damn thing with it.

They have a little switch on the side for that.. and there's no "app". 

...I seem to remember some excuse about the batteries being flat the iphone flash is much brighter on constant, and yes there is no app. Your quite right.

One day Mr Wood might try one. (Yeah right )


....and to add, due to the depth of the device, it fits in places conventional torches can't. ....oh lord, that'll set Esta off again.

[Rog]

Big softy . . . . 

Country Living =

Toilet/Sewage = spade to dig a hole
Heating = put a coat one
Cooking = Open fire with sticks and kindling
Broadband = learn semaphore and get some pigeons
Entertainment = Reading (as in reeding) and The Mrs (yours not mine )

[chrisgixer]

Very useful info here though gents thankyou.

ESP interesting re gas prices and fuel output

http://www.biomassenergycentre.org.uk/portal/page?_pageid=75,59188&_dad=portal

[humbucker]

Chris,

I live in the arse end of nowhere, no street lights, no gas etc. It's perfect (no people! ).

We have a septic tank, oil fired heating etc. Water is unmetered, costs about £12 a month iirc. That's awesome considering the size of the garden, the constant washing of cars etc.

Septic tank emptying is £60, maybe once/twice a year. Oil costs nothing during summer months, we probably use 1500 litres of oil over winter (depending on severity of temperature), but it's a 250 year old house and not the most energy-efficient. You might end up spending less. Electric is reasonable, although I installed pumped electric showers which are a bit juicy. Then again, we're not forking out for gas. Swings and roundabouts etc.

[Varche]

just dont do the townie thing of putting lots of outdoor lights up the first week, cos its dark in the outback..

you soon get used to it.

When you live in the town & get used to street lighting etc, you don't appreciate how dark it gets at night in the sticks.

Indeed. A member here has no street lights outside their house, it's quite a shock to realise you can't see your hand in front of your face until your eyes get used to the dark. iPhone torch to the rescue.

...and before certain members scoff at the iPhone torch, I've been offered "a proper torch" on occasion when rummaging around engine bays and couldn't see a damn thing with it.

That is the funniest thing I have heard all month. Softies

No lights= great views of the stars and comets
No neighbours = peace

Our water costs about £30 every six months (and that is in a country where it doesn't rain for months on end)

[humbucker]

The only drawback that we have found is online data streaming due to a puny broadband connection. Our jobs are both 'net dependent, but we can happily tolerate slower download/upload speeds as we don't play online games etc. If you watch a lot of Netflix then you might need to reconsider the move!

[chrisgixer]

The only drawback that we have found is data streaming online. Our jobs are both 'net dependent, but tbh we can happily tolerate slower download/upload speeds. If your life revolves around online gaming or Netflix then you might find yourself throwing the TV out of the window 

No none of that nonsense. We've just cancelled sky movies so only iplayer will suffer. Her job is internet dependant working from home, but it's just data, so no biggy. 2meg will be ok as long as its a stable line. If not, there's always Varches solution.

[chrisgixer]

I think I've asked this of someone here before, but can USED engine oil be burned in an oil fired boiler? I think the answer was no.

[humbucker]

I think I've asked this of someone here before, but can USED engine oil be burned in an oil fired boiler? I think the answer was no.

Home heating oil and engine oil are not compatible. There are some heaters and tanks made specifically for recycling used engine oil, but afaik you still need to filter and dilute it to such an extent that the costs of such a system would make little financial sense. Home heating oil is usually something like Kerosene 28. Get yourself a quote:

http://www.boilerjuice.com/

[Gaffers]

Small village, 2meg phone line connection max, and water is about the only things connected up.

Moving to Aldersh!t then?

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Heating oil is also expensive.

About £600 for 1000 litres the last time we bought some.

Again......shop around.

How long does that last in Opti mansions, Opti?

One banquet.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Small village, 2meg phone line connection max, and water is about the only things connected up.

Moving to Aldersh!t then?

Moving closer to Wakefield perhaps?.....

[TheBoy]

My little bro has oil fired boiler. Its a (very large) 3 bed bungalow, I'll get some costings when I next speak to him.

The key, he says, is to buy the oil in the summer when its cheap, else you will get raped on price in a cold winter. He ensures his is brimmed towards the end of the summer, and keeps it brimmed until the prices shoot up, so hopefully in a mild winter can get through without top ups, or just get raped once for a small amount is the winter is a bit harsher.

The price is a bit volatile though.

[TheBoy]

I think I've asked this of someone here before, but can USED engine oil be burned in an oil fired boiler? I think the answer was no.

You can get more industrial oil fire heaters that can run on used engine oil, but I'm sure my bro said his boiler wouldn't, despite the simplistic nature of oil fired boilers.

So, keep the engine oil for a heater to warm your big garage...  ...if you move, you have to have a big garage

[The Sheriff]

Indeed. A member here has no street lights outside their house, it's quite a shock to realise you can't see your hand in front of your face until your eyes get used to the dark. iPhone torch to the rescue.

...and before certain members scoff at the iPhone torch, I've been offered "a proper torch" on occasion when rummaging around engine bays and couldn't see a damn thing with it.

They have a little switch on the side for that.. and there's no "app". 

...I seem to remember some excuse about the batteries being flat the iphone flash is much brighter on constant, and yes there is no app. Your quite right.

One day Mr Wood might try one. (Yeah right )


....and to add, due to the depth of the device, it fits in places conventional torches can't. ....oh lord, that'll set Esta off again.

I have an 'assistive light' on my S4, very bright.

[TheBoy]

Also factor in that shopping - weekly food shopping and any other - will involve journeys, and since moving to Brakkers, I've learned to be a lot more organised if planning anything, as trips to the shops are a bit of a trek. Even though its a (quite small, admittedly) town, there isn't a busting lot here.

A pack of screws is a 22 mile, 1hr round trip if I don't remember to go to the local DIY shop before it shuts on Saturday lunchtime (and stays shut Sunday)

[aaronjb]

No none of that nonsense. We've just cancelled sky movies so only iplayer will suffer. Her job is internet dependant working from home, but it's just data, so no biggy. 2meg will be ok as long as its a stable line. If not, there's always Varches solution.

Remember that for anything interactive (so, to an extent the web, but certainly any remote desktop/VNC type protocols) even a fast satellite link will be like pulling teeth compared to a 2Mbit ADSL line.

Reason being that you'll be trading ~15-40ms round trip time (so every packet takes 40milliseconds to reach it's designation and every acknowledgement takes 40ms to get back) for ~600ms RTT.. every time you click a page there's 600ms for the DNS lookup to get there, 600ms to get back, that's 1.2 seconds before you've even gone anywhere.

Now imagine the impact that has on remote desktop, say.. horrible.

[humbucker]

Also factor in that shopping - weekly food shopping and any other - will involve journeys

Sod that. Get it delivered. Time is money.

[Taxi_Driver]

My brother lives in an ex farmhouse in the middle of nowhere....iirc he has a 2000L tank for the oil and has it filled about 3 times a year...sure he told me once it costs a bit over £1000 to have it filled.
But then he has an oil fired AGA thats obviously on 24/7....and also does the hot water/central heating.
To access his house you have to drive down quite a steep lane (in places), so its worth considering can a tanker get easy access in winter months...as a couple of years ago, when we had a 'hardish' winter the tanker driver refused to drive down his lane (risk of sliding due to frost/snow), so as he feared he'd run out of oil.....he turned the heating off and went out and bought 5/6 electric oil radiators....bet he had a big leccy bill that year 

[Shackeng]

Oil: I live in the country, as you know, but we are on gas, however friends living in gas-less villages nearby arrange a bulk price by joining with neighbours and all getting delivered on the same day, this saves them a certain amount, and I believe it is quite common practice.

http://www.which.co.uk/energy/creating-an-energy-saving-home/guides/heating-oil/getting-the-best-heating-oil-price/

[chrisgixer]

My brother lives in an ex farmhouse in the middle of nowhere....iirc he has a 2000L tank for the oil and has it filled about 3 times a year...sure he told me once it costs a bit over £1000 to have it filled.
But then he has an oil fired AGA thats obviously on 24/7....and also does the hot water/central heating.
To access his house you have to drive down quite a steep lane (in places), so its worth considering can a tanker get easy access in winter months...as a couple of years ago, when we had a 'hardish' winter the tanker driver refused to drive down his lane (risk of sliding due to frost/snow), so as he feared he'd run out of oil.....he turned the heating off and went out and bought 5/6 electric oil radiators....bet he had a big leccy bill that year 

3k a year? 

[chrisgixer]

Oil: I live in the country, as you know, but we are on gas, however friends living in gas-less villages nearby arrange a bulk price by joining with neighbours and all getting delivered on the same day, this saves them a certain amount, and I believe it is quite common practice.

http://www.which.co.uk/energy/creating-an-energy-saving-home/guides/heating-oil/getting-the-best-heating-oil-price/

That's handy Shak, thankyou.

[chrisgixer]

No none of that nonsense. We've just cancelled sky movies so only iplayer will suffer. Her job is internet dependant working from home, but it's just data, so no biggy. 2meg will be ok as long as its a stable line. If not, there's always Varches solution.

Remember that for anything interactive (so, to an extent the web, but certainly any remote desktop/VNC type protocols) even a fast satellite link will be like pulling teeth compared to a 2Mbit ADSL line.

Reason being that you'll be trading ~15-40ms round trip time (so every packet takes 40milliseconds to reach it's designation and every acknowledgement takes 40ms to get back) for ~600ms RTT.. every time you click a page there's 600ms for the DNS lookup to get there, 600ms to get back, that's 1.2 seconds before you've even gone anywhere.

Now imagine the impact that has on remote desktop, say.. horrible.

It runs via VPN (?) iirc which has its own issues tother end too. Like its packs up when it rains.

[humbucker]

Oil: I live in the country, as you know, but we are on gas, however friends living in gas-less villages nearby arrange a bulk price by joining with neighbours and all getting delivered on the same day, this saves them a certain amount, and I believe it is quite common practice.

http://www.which.co.uk/energy/creating-an-energy-saving-home/guides/heating-oil/getting-the-best-heating-oil-price/

That's handy Shak, thankyou.

I tend to get a quote from the Boilerjuice website and then call the delivery company that I know will be coming out to us (Boilerjuice are an agent/reseller). They then undercut Boilerjuice as they can cut out the middle man and I don't have to wait for neighbours to order etc. Bingo.

[Rog]

Seriously, we recently moved from suburban London to West Wales, and spoke to lots of people and looked into things . . . . . a lot.

We could very easilly have gone for an Opti size big detached house in the country with land etc etc. Great, and initially great, but can't walk to the pub, can't walk to a shop, taxi or drive for anything, possibly cut off in Winter, if there are kids - the school run gets tedious etc etc. I know people who really regret being tempted by this "ideal" life-style. We a bought a house, walk to pubs, walk to get a newspaper or a pint of milk, walk to a railway station etc, BUT can see cows and sheep on the hills not so far away, and go for a walk by the river to watch otters.

Just think realistically.

[Varche]

No none of that nonsense. We've just cancelled sky movies so only iplayer will suffer. Her job is internet dependant working from home, but it's just data, so no biggy. 2meg will be ok as long as its a stable line. If not, there's always Varches solution.

Remember that for anything interactive (so, to an extent the web, but certainly any remote desktop/VNC type protocols) even a fast satellite link will be like pulling teeth compared to a 2Mbit ADSL line.

Reason being that you'll be trading ~15-40ms round trip time (so every packet takes 40milliseconds to reach it's designation and every acknowledgement takes 40ms to get back) for ~600ms RTT.. every time you click a page there's 600ms for the DNS lookup to get there, 600ms to get back, that's 1.2 seconds before you've even gone anywhere.

Now imagine the impact that has on remote desktop, say.. horrible.

It runs via VPN (?) iirc which has its own issues tother end too. Like its packs up when it rains.

If you give the the web address of a test, I will post up my result. We watch occasional catch up TV with no buffering. No idea what a remote desktop is(unless it is what I am typing from....)

[TheBoy]

Using a VPN, you biggest problem isn't the headline speed, but the upload. ADSL maxes out at less than half a megabit, ADSL2+ at 1 megabit.

[dbug]

When I was married (back in the 80s) we had a large 5 bedroom stone built farm house set in 5 acres - no street lights or near neighbours.  It had oil fired central central heating with a 2.5K litre tank plus large solar panels on the roof.  Used hardly any oil in the summer - solar efficient enough for all hot water, including baths/showers for family of 4, winter costs comparible pro rata with gas costs for running a large 4 bed "estate" hose in a small town (previous house)

[Sir Tigger KC]

A bit more on septic tanks.

I think I heard recently that all septic tanks have to be registered with the Environment Agency by a soonish date.  I think that this might even involve an inspection?, all at a cost of course.  If the septic tank dosn't come up to scratch I'd imagine the Environment Agency would demand that you replace it with a new one and maybe even fine you for contamination if it leaks!  How they will prove this I don't know....    but for example we had a septic tank on the family farm which was brick built and was probably built by my Dad's Grandad!  My Mum used to grow great veggies on top of it!!    I can't imagine that tank passing any sort of inspection today if it's still there. 

So if the property you're looking at has one, make sure it's registered and complies with all the relevant regulations or you could end up with a shitty situation!! 

The other thing is that if they are used properly, septic tanks should rarely need pumping out, as Varche said you have to be careful what you put in it!   

[aaronjb]

If you give the the web address of a test, I will post up my result. We watch occasional catch up TV with no buffering. No idea what a remote desktop is(unless it is what I am typing from....)

Varche - fire up www.speedtest.net and then let me know what the "Ping" result is (22ms for me right now) ..

Streaming services will work fine regardless of round trip time as long as there isn't too much "jitter" (that is, packets being reordered and arriving out of sequence).  Jitter really kills things like Skype though as (if I recall) Skype is UDP and doesn't do packet reordering but rather drops out of order sequences instead.


Chris - VPN is just "Virtual Private Network", really a marketing name for an underlying technology.  It's just a transport mechanism, though, it's what you do over the VPN that matters.. if it's highly interactive (SSH, telnet, remote desktop etc) then it's painful with high jitter and high RTT, but if it's Email/file sharing/etc the RTT is much less of an issue..  If H connects, remotely, to another machine at head office and uses that as if she was sat at the head office computer's keyboard & screen it might be bad, but she probably just uses email/word/etc, right?

[chrisgixer]

Correct, I think. They have to use some ridiculously crap software on each machine to a central server via VPN. The info is just recording data, such as case progress updates, email etc so yes, prety much

[aaronjb]

Yeah, so you'd probably be fine over satellite link or slower ADSL; it'll feel "laggy" over satellite and the decreased lag on ADSL probably more than makes up for the lower bandwidth for most people.. though streaming TV over 2Mbit might be touch and go!

I don't think I could give up my 150Mbit

[Varche]

http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/3730558467

High ping but that doesn't affect our Skype back to the UK each week. I expected to have to say OVER at the end of speech!

The speed isn't right either. It works at just below 20 meg and about 3 or so upload. The Tooway sat internet people don't like you using speedtest .net or other similar sites. there is a spiel on Bentley walkers website about how it shows up sat internet performance. What I do know is that it is streets better than any 3G dongle I have ever used. Using Tooway's own Ookla test tool gives these results again with a high ping

Download Speed: 20029 kbps (2503.6 KB/sec transfer rate)
Upload Speed: 5995 kbps (749.4 KB/sec transfer rate)
Latency: 639 ms
Jitter: 169 ms
Packet Loss: -1%
02/09/2014 12:44:48

Don't forget the monthly limit limit. You can schedule bandwidth hungry downloads during the unlimited night period using schedule task manager

[aaronjb]

The (relatively) low jitter is probably why Skype works pretty well - the 600ms latency isn't so bad (it's only 0.5s before your audio reaches the other end, after all)

Not a bad solution if you're determined to live outside civilisation

[Kevin Wood]

"Improved considerably since this time last year" would be my comment.

[Gaffers]

Dont forget to factor in the cost of wellies, flatcaps, wax jackets and plus fours

[ronnyd]

If you have oil fired heating etc. just ensure you make sure the oil tank is secure due to the possibility of oil theft in
remote areas.