Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: terry paget on 05 August 2018, 10:20:42
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This wretched car is giving me a rough time. At the end of yesterday's test run I seemed to notice a slight misfire. This morning I gave it another test run, and it misfires under load at low revs, so presumably an ignition fault. Only code stored is 19 incorrect rpm signal, presumably there from before I changed the crank sensor.
I changed the plugs last October and leads 1-3-5 at the same time, I changed the coil pack in 2014.
Water in no. 6 seems unlikely as it hasn't rained for yonks.
Before I rush into changing things, are there any more checks I should make?
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Oil in the plug wells and primarily that everything is still plugged in following the crank sensor kerfuffle ::)
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As DG suggests first things I'd be checking are the security of the plug leads and the coil pack.
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Oil in the plug wells and primarily that everything is still plugged in following the crank sensor kerfuffle ::)
Thanks Doc. I find oil in 1,3 and 5 plug wells.
Can anyone recommend a good supplier of cam cover gaskets?
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When mine started to leak I changed also covers as they were warped, original GM, just for sure. Wanted to avoid to make that stupid work twice.
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I have just checked the small hole into the breather box - it is not blocked. I fitted new cam cover gaskets last October, but they were cheap aftermarket gaskets. I am embarrassed and disappointed that they have failed so soon. I believe that Vx gaskets cost about £80, mine cost £15. I argued that as long as the breather system was working all right the engine would suck air in, rather than blow oil out. Maybe my cam covers are warped, as mentioned above.
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Easy enough to check in situ with a straight edge-I used a 12" ruler to check mine,and yes they'd bowed out slightly-another thing to check as I believe this has been known to happen is whether any of the cover bolts have come loose.
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Oil in all six plug wells. Just rung local Vx dealer, 2 sets cam cover gaskets will cost over £100. I fitted aftermarket gaskets last October. Pleae advise.
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I bought original covers in 2015, 157 euro/pc. Seals were included. Expensive but no problems after that, might be cheaper today.
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I bought original covers in 2015, 157 euro/pc. Seals were included. Expensive but no problems after that, might be cheaper today.
Was that both cam covers, and all the gaskets and O-rings?
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Each... Last I bought, admittedly in 2005, were £180 a side... Includes new seal and o rings.
Alternatively buy £15 ones and replace at every service...
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Each... Last I bought, admittedly in 2005, were £180 a side... Includes new seal and o rings.
Alternatively buy £15 ones and replace at every service...
Back in 2006 my first 3.2 Omega cost £2500, so £360 keeping it tip top seemed reasonable. 12 years on, with my Omegas worth less than £200 each, I am mean with maintenance costs. I still cling to my belief that if the breathers are clear then a leaking cam cover gasket will leak air in, not oil out. I expect to be proven wrong.
Today I blew a lot of oil out of my big breather tubes. Perhaps they were blocked.
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Each... Last I bought, admittedly in 2005, were £180 a side... Includes new seal and o rings.
Alternatively buy £15 ones and replace at every service...
Back in 2006 my first 3.2 Omega cost £2500, so £360 keeping it tip top seemed reasonable. 12 years on, with my Omegas worth less than £200 each, I am mean with maintenance costs. I still cling to my belief that if the breathers are clear then a leaking cam cover gasket will leak air in, not oil out. I expect to be proven wrong.
Today I blew a lot of oil out of my big breather tubes. Perhaps they were blocked.
What do your plug wells have to say on the subject?
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Each... Last I bought, admittedly in 2005, were £180 a side... Includes new seal and o rings.
Alternatively buy £15 ones and replace at every service...
Back in 2006 my first 3.2 Omega cost £2500, so £360 keeping it tip top seemed reasonable. 12 years on, with my Omegas worth less than £200 each, I am mean with maintenance costs. I still cling to my belief that if the breathers are clear then a leaking cam cover gasket will leak air in, not oil out. I expect to be proven wrong.
Today I blew a lot of oil out of my big breather tubes. Perhaps they were blocked.
I take a slightly different view. I don't look at what my Omega is worth, I look at what it's worth to me and if I weigh everything up, it's a hard act to replace. So whatever it needs is what it gets and only ever OE or OEM parts. Admittedly my fleet is not quite as big as yours, I only have 4 cars in total, but take a similar view with all of them. It's still cheaper to fix than to replace.
My garage service manager has just bought a very tidy 2.6 and bit off the hand of the seller at less than £1000 - he knew what he was buying more than the seller knew what he was selling. Following the used/classic/auction markets reveals that values of the best Omegas have bottomed out and are going back up again so I'm trying to keep mine in that category.
The classic market is beginning to cotton onto them as the "last great rear wheel drive large Opel/Vauxhall" and "a better drive than the equivalent Mercedes E class". If you want a comparison just look at values for the Rover SD1.
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Each... Last I bought, admittedly in 2005, were £180 a side... Includes new seal and o rings.
Alternatively buy £15 ones and replace at every service...
Back in 2006 my first 3.2 Omega cost £2500, so £360 keeping it tip top seemed reasonable. 12 years on, with my Omegas worth less than £200 each, I am mean with maintenance costs. I still cling to my belief that if the breathers are clear then a leaking cam cover gasket will leak air in, not oil out. I expect to be proven wrong.
Today I blew a lot of oil out of my big breather tubes. Perhaps they were blocked.
Perhaps when engine is stopped all the oil splashed around inside covers leak out.
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Each... Last I bought, admittedly in 2005, were £180 a side... Includes new seal and o rings.
Alternatively buy £15 ones and replace at every service...
Back in 2006 my first 3.2 Omega cost £2500, so £360 keeping it tip top seemed reasonable. 12 years on, with my Omegas worth less than £200 each, I am mean with maintenance costs. I still cling to my belief that if the breathers are clear then a leaking cam cover gasket will leak air in, not oil out. I expect to be proven wrong.
Today I blew a lot of oil out of my big breather tubes. Perhaps they were blocked.
I take a slightly different view. I don't look at what my Omega is worth, I look at what it's worth to me and if I weigh everything up, it's a hard act to replace. So whatever it needs is what it gets and only ever OE or OEM parts. Admittedly my fleet is not quite as big as yours, I only have 4 cars in total, but take a similar view with all of them. It's still cheaper to fix than to replace.
My garage service manager has just bought a very tidy 2.6 and bit off the hand of the seller at less than £1000 - he knew what he was buying more than the seller knew what he was selling. Following the used/classic/auction markets reveals that values of the best Omegas have bottomed out and are going back up again so I'm trying to keep mine in that category.
The classic market is beginning to cotton onto them as the "last great rear wheel drive large Opel/Vauxhall" and "a better drive than the equivalent Mercedes E class". If you want a comparison just look at values for the Rover SD1.
You are an enthusiastic welder, as in Car SOS, and do whatever is needed to keep your cars in good body condition. I patch cills, but when my MOT tester bashes holes in my bodies with a pry bar, I give up.
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The cost analysis for banger repairs is pretty straightforward.
Does the repair cost more than it would add in value...
Let's assume that the car is worth £800 in a safe, usable condition.
Let's assume that the following issues are present and the work is being done by you, so no labour.
1. The aircon doesn't work. Value affected by £100. Repair, new condenser plus gas, so £110. If aircon is important, you might swallow the £10. If not, leave it.
2. The waterpump has failed. Value affected by £600. Repair, water pump cambelt coolant, so £200. Fix it.
3. Cambelt snaps. Value affected by £600. Repair, new engine plus service items and fluids, say £1,000. Scrap it and save £800.
Anything not affecting the safety or usability of the car can be largely ignored.
Servicing, tyres etc should be predictable enough to budget for. For example scrapping a car that only needs four tyres is stupid, as the replacement car will likely need things addressing plus the purchase price. (obviously if you're looking to sell your car, then obviously best to maximise the value of it... but, bear in mind that spending £300 on it just to gain £200 in sale value is a waste of £100.
If you want to keep a worthless car, then you need a money no object approach to repairs, provided your household budget can accommodate it. If the budget cannot tolerate it, then cut your losses and buy something less worn out. This isn't the same thing as newer/more expensive.
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Each... Last I bought, admittedly in 2005, were £180 a side... Includes new seal and o rings.
Alternatively buy £15 ones and replace at every service...
Back in 2006 my first 3.2 Omega cost £2500, so £360 keeping it tip top seemed reasonable. 12 years on, with my Omegas worth less than £200 each, I am mean with maintenance costs. I still cling to my belief that if the breathers are clear then a leaking cam cover gasket will leak air in, not oil out. I expect to be proven wrong.
Today I blew a lot of oil out of my big breather tubes. Perhaps they were blocked.
Perhaps when engine is stopped all the oil splashed around inside covers leak out.
In your dreams... :D
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Until c.1980 sump pressure was released via a gauze filled orifice somewhere high on the engine. Then clean air enthusiasts ruled that sump gases should be reburned in the engine to make them less noxious. This led to the Omega breather system. This works well until it clogs, resulting in the whole system becoming pressurised, and the pressure relieving itself at the weakest point, the cam cover gasket.
Senator owners drilled holes in the oil filler caps, inserting tubes discharging under the car. Now there's an idea.
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It's probably worth mentioning something you all know already, and that is leaking cam covers were never a problem with Omegas that had covered less than say 75k miles. The problems only seem to be apparent after a number of years in use, and replacement gaskets are a lottery, whether they be £130 or £15. Think of the number of cycles of the engine being run up to temperature and then cooling down after use.... perhaps somewhere in the region of 7 to 8 thousand times in a 15 year period, and that's just a guess. Most plastics can't stand that sort of punishment. Look closely and you will find hairline cracks in your covers, assuming they are the originals.
It's obvious Terry that your enthusiasm is one of the things that keep your fleet of omegas on the road, and I also admire your thrifty approach, but unless you want to be sorting out this mess every 6 months, the only solution is to bite the bullet and get some new covers. Your main dealer should be able to sell them complete with gaskets for £300 and you won't have to worry about them again.
It may hurt your pocket (and mind set) initially, but think of the joy of not leaving oil stains on peoples drives.... and the longevity of your plug leads and everything else that gets covered in engine oil!
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Back in 2006 my first 3.2 Omega cost £2500, so £360 keeping it tip top seemed reasonable. 12 years on, with my Omegas worth less than £200 each, I am mean with maintenance costs. I still cling to my belief that if the breathers are clear then a leaking cam cover gasket will leak air in, not oil out. I expect to be proven wrong.
Today I blew a lot of oil out of my big breather tubes. Perhaps they were blocked.
Perhaps when engine is stopped all the oil splashed around inside covers leak out.
In your dreams... :D
Exactly. And it's easily proved: just unscrew the oil filler cap with the engine running. If you cover the hole with your hand, you can feel the air displaced by the rotating internals. This will find a way out if at all possible, and as it has oil suspended in it, is considered a bad thing. That's why over the last 40ish years all engines have sealed breather systems. Some of them are better than others, and the Omega one is a typical Omega feature: complex and high maintenance.
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It's probably worth mentioning something you all know already, and that is leaking cam covers were never a problem with Omegas that had covered less than say 75k miles. The problems only seem to be apparent after a number of years in use, and replacement gaskets are a lottery, whether they be £130 or £15. Think of the number of cycles of the engine being run up to temperature and then cooling down after use.... perhaps somewhere in the region of 7 to 8 thousand times in a 15 year period, and that's just a guess. Most plastics can't stand that sort of punishment. Look closely and you will find hairline cracks in your covers, assuming they are the originals.
It's obvious Terry that your enthusiasm is one of the things that keep your fleet of omegas on the road, and I also admire your thrifty approach, but unless you want to be sorting out this mess every 6 months, the only solution is to bite the bullet and get some new covers. Your main dealer should be able to sell them complete with gaskets for £300 and you won't have to worry about them again.
It may hurt your pocket (and mind set) initially, but think of the joy of not leaving oil stains on peoples drives.... and the longevity of your plug leads and everything else that gets covered in engine oil!
Hairline cracks are just what I need! They would relieve the pressure under the cam covers and cure the problem. If the air leak was serious it could affect the engine idle, but that seems unlikely.
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I have replaced 1-3-5 cam cover with an old spare, which came complete with gaskets.
I began to remove 2-4-6 cam cover, removed all the obstructions, wiring harness, etc. I removed no2 plug lead, and discovered, on closer inspection, that the liquid in no. 2 plug hole, and there was only a little there, was not oil, but water. Furthermore, the plug lead rubber was split, as by sparking to earth. Pic follows.
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/rsbkyn60rsb2hrv/PlugCOVER2.jpg?dl=1)
I reckon this was the cause of my misfire. I don't know how the water got there, any ideas?
Following recent suggestion that only Omegas over 75000 miles seem to suffer from failing cam cover gaskets, I wondered whether the breather box might be getting full. Not so in my case, I put a tube through the large pipe and a .060" wire through the small pipe, and all seemed well.
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/wq8zon7nxsrojvz/BREATHERhose.jpg?dl=1)
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Sorry, wrong pic. Here is the breather box.
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/iwlh6rufzdydull/breatherBOXpipes.jpg?dl=1)
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Cant see pics, but then I can't get internet access for more than 10s every 2 minutes ;D
But water in plug wells does lead to misfires.
Added to that, a 19 is a 19, and the crank sensor is shagged. End of.
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I hoped that plug lead would still serve, but I would like to replace it if I had a spare. And so it proved. A generous OOFer, having sold his last Omega, kindly sent me all his spares for the cost of postage. They included a no. 2 plug lead. Joy!
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/228ru9q5dkk8bz3/PLUGleads.jpg?dl=1)
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Cant see pics, but then I can't get internet access for more than 10s every 2 minutes ;D
But water in plug wells does lead to misfires.
Added to that, a 19 is a 19, and the crank sensor is shagged. End of.
Terry had the crank sensor plugged in wrong , and swapped to another ,so that would throw a code ,without the sensor being faulty
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Neglected to mention - plug wells 4 and 6 were bone dry, so 2-4-6 cam cover gaskets are OK.
I have just replaced the lower inlet manifold, then received advice from Fuse 19 that the failure of the engine to increase the idle rate on cold start is unusual, and probably caused by a faulty ECU temp sensor, to change which I must remove the lower inlet manifold. Job now on hold while I seek an ECU temp sensor.
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Local motor factors :y
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Thanks, Doc. New sensor collected and fitted.
Working down there, I noticed a vacuum valve, with colourful connector, but no vacuum line to it. It seems to be attached to the breather box. This can't be right, and might explain my breather problems. The vacuum line big junction is nearby, but I see no spare pipes. At a pinch I could create one, but where is the original one?
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/stiqidxr7vuiajv/BREATHERvacVALVE.jpg?dl=1)
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How many Omegas have you had ::)
That's the purge valve... Pipe from breather bridge and another to the plastic box in the driver's side wheel arch...
Not fitting the pipe to it will introduce a decent airleak...
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Incidentally, the plug and therefore item can be identified using the Haynes wiring diagrams ;)
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How many Omegas have you had ::)
That's the purge valve... Pipe from breather bridge and another to the plastic box in the driver's side wheel arch...
Not fitting the pipe to it will introduce a decent airleak...
Thanks Doc. I have found one hose from the RH wing, but that had been plugged on no. 2 breather pipe. Sounds like there should be another hose from the RH wing, but I can't find one.
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That pipe from the wing isn't exactly in the wrong place when connected to the breather bridge, it just means the purge valve isn't included in the scheme any more. A recent investigation on my car found the purge valve to be stuck open, and am guessing it's no use in that state which is why it's the way it is on your car.
The advice I received was to just put it back on its bracket, connect the pipes up and forget about it, even though the valve is open all the time.
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How many Omegas have you had ::)
That's the purge valve... Pipe from breather bridge and another to the plastic box in the driver's side wheel arch...
Not fitting the pipe to it will introduce a decent airleak...
Thanks Doc. I have found one hose from the RH wing, but that had been plugged on no. 2 breather pipe. Sounds like there should be another hose from the RH wing, but I can't find one.
Hose from the wing connects to the purge valve.
The hose you're missing goes from the purge valve to the breather bridge.
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How many Omegas have you had ::)
That's the purge valve... Pipe from breather bridge and another to the plastic box in the driver's side wheel arch...
Not fitting the pipe to it will introduce a decent airleak...
Thanks Doc. I have found one hose from the RH wing, but that had been plugged on no. 2 breather pipe. Sounds like there should be another hose from the RH wing, but I can't find one.
Hose from the wing connects to the purge valve.
The hose you're missing goes from the purge valve to the breather bridge.
Exiting the purge valve at the bottom from a 10mm pipe and joining the plenum top breather on a 5mm pipe, challenging. Thanks Doc, now I understand. Things were simpler on my Velocette.
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That pipe from the wing isn't exactly in the wrong place when connected to the breather bridge, it just means the purge valve isn't included in the scheme any more. A recent investigation on my car found the purge valve to be stuck open, and am guessing it's no use in that state which is why it's the way it is on your car.
The advice I received was to just put it back on its bracket, connect the pipes up and forget about it, even though the valve is open all the time.
With the valve open at all times you were in the same place as me with the hose from the purge tank linked directly into the breather bridge. Haynes says this may slightly reduce catalyst life.
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Is the code 19 still present?
On the earlier V6 if you read the codes with the ignition on but engine off then it will always report code 19. It should clear when the engine is running. Else the sensor is foobar or the connector still has an issue.
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After all that, changed cam cover gaskets, plugs, etc. car still misfires under load. Must be the DIS pack, thought I. I have remove the DIS pack, and it looks all right - not split anywhere. I have a used spare, I suppose I fit it. Is there any way I can check a DIS pack?
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So, what can be wrong with this silly car? So far, I have changed the crank sensor, RH cam cover gaskets and checked LH cam cover gaskets, and now removed the DIS pack, which looks OK.
DIS pack could still be faulty, have not yet changed either plugs or plug leads, and the crank sensor could be a dud, though it was a brand new genuine Vx item. This morning before breakfast a 2 mile test run seemed fine, but after breakfast a second run produced misfiring under load, full throttle at 25mph in 4th.
I am inclined to fit another DIS pack and another set of plug leads and try again.
If no change, then I change all 6 plugs.
If still no change, I change the crank sensor.
No EML has come on. I will check for fault codes when I get it going again.
Please advise.
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Forgot to mention: I changed the ECU coolant temperature sensor, and brought the purge valve into circuit. Car does not idle well; does not stall, but idle rate tends to rise to 1200rpm.
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So, what can be wrong with this silly car? have not yet changed either plugs or plug leads,
plugs are a consumable item (and cheap). Change (or at least inspect) the plugs before changing other parts
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I too suggest you examine the plugs. You mentioned that the plug lead boot for cylinder 2 was damaged apparently due to arcing which might have been down to water in the plug well. So you replaced the plug lead for 2. However if it's the coil pack actually faulty on plug 2 then you might find evidence of a spark fault on cylinder 5 in the opposing bank. That's because plug 2 is paired with plug 5 using the same coil with a wasted spark.
Plugs 6 & 3 and 4 & 1 are the other pairings.
As to the 1200rpm idle. Might the throttle cable be too tight following reassembly? Such that the butterflies in the throttle body don't fully close when the pedal is released?
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Thanks for the suggestions, chaps.
This afternoon I changed the DIS pack, disappointed to find the existing not cracked, but changed it anyway. I took the lower inlet manifold off to make the job easier. I changed all the plugs, and the plug leads. I discovered that my improvised lead from purge valve to breather bridge - it needs 1 end 10mm ID and the other end 5mm ID - had fallen apart, which may explain the idling problems. I guess I need the bespoke hose.
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For testing purposes you can plug the pipe on the breather bridge, but do not use the car like this... ;)
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For testing purposes you can plug the pipe on the breather bridge, but do not use the car like this... ;)
Tick Tock has a purge valve stuck open, and has been advised to just carry on with it. I understand from Haynes that this may shorten his catalyst life. I tried to bodge something with two hoses one stuck in the other, but it failed. I have found this in my spares heap, which looks similar, but has both pipes sticking up, and comes with a hose. Tomorrow I will try to fit it.
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/a65ppaji8thfecq/PURGEvalve.jpg?dl=1)
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Trying that valve is your best solution.
Here's why:
Plugging the breather bridge will temporarily fix the air leak. Running with the purge valve able to vent tank vapour to the engine bay is not a great recipe.
Bypassing the purge valve could potentially allow the engine to 'inhale' air/vapour from the tank. Which in extreme conditions could collapse the tank.
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Thanks Doc. Placing my old purge valve alongside my new found valve, I discover that they are identical, except someone has blanked off a pipe on the old valve.
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/geb8550rr6rdq5x/purgeVALVES.jpg?dl=1)
As it came with the correct hose I installed it with hose from RH wing one side and hose to breather bridge on the other. Reassembled everything and took it for test drive.
Perfect for the first 10 miles, then it got hilly. Then the engine got hot, 100 degrees, and it misfired full throttle 4th gear 25mph. Got home, the engine overheating symbol flickered on, fans were blowing, temperature slowly fell to 95. I suspect blocked radiator.
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Did you do anything to test whether the replacement purge valve fully closes and fully opens? Or if stuck, is it stuck open or closed?
Also was the coil pack a known good pack?
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Did you do anything to test whether the replacement purge valve fully closes and fully opens? Or if stuck, is it stuck open or closed?
Also was the coil pack a known good pack?
No, did not check the purge valve, cannot of hand think how to do it.
The coil packs were genuine Vauxhall as far as I know. They were both salvaged from Vx 2.5s I scrapped in the past, and labelled KOV and X84, identifying the cars they came from. Neither was displaying the splits in the outer casings I have seen on failing coil packs.
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My first 3.0 manual suffered a blocked radiator. Temperature kept rising on a journey from Oxfordshire to Somerset, and I had to keep stopping for 15 minutes to allow cooling before I could make it home. New radiator cured the problem. I suppose it could be failing thermostat.
I see I can buy a new radiator for £52 online. I have 2 radiators in my spares heap, salvaged from Omegas I have scrapped. I imagine they are still serviceable.
I know the car is not worth much, but it is strangely rust free, and is a nice drive.
Please advise.
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Does the top hose get hot suddenly or gradually, or relatively not at at?
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Did you do anything to test whether the replacement purge valve fully closes and fully opens? Or if stuck, is it stuck open or closed?
Also was the coil pack a known good pack?
How did you become aware that uour purge valve was stuck open?
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Did you do anything to test whether the replacement purge valve fully closes and fully opens? Or if stuck, is it stuck open or closed?
Also was the coil pack a known good pack?
How did you become aware that uour purge valve was stuck open?
It throws a fault code :y
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It obviously doesn't in all cases :( Well not at least on my 2.5.
Thinking about the purge valve, I can only assume a fault code is thrown if the ecu detects vapour / additional gas on the inlet? But there's nothing in the plenum before fuel injection that could detect this?
Talking of PCV, if the plastic feed line from the canister is blocked, an open valve wouldn't make much difference..... there can be a lot of crud in there from time to time.
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Did you do anything to test whether the replacement purge valve fully closes and fully opens? Or if stuck, is it stuck open or closed?
Also was the coil pack a known good pack?
No, did not check the purge valve, cannot of hand think how to do it.
The coil packs were genuine Vauxhall as far as I know. They were both salvaged from Vx 2.5s I scrapped in the past, and labelled KOV and X84, identifying the cars they came from. Neither was displaying the splits in the outer casings I have seen on failing coil packs.
With a 12v connected to the valve, you should be able to detect it clicking when it opens and closes. Mine is dead with no life when presented with voltage and is still stuck open.
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Does the top hose get hot suddenly or gradually, or relatively not at at?
Top hose warms up with the engine, gradually. at 103 degrees the fan kicks in, temperature falls to 95 and the fan cuts out again.
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I changed the ECU temp sensor, hoping it would produce a fast idle on cold start - it didn't. In fact the idle when warm is 900rpm, higher than before. I appreciate this could be an air leak somewhere else, like purge valve or its plumbing.
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It obviously doesn't in all cases :( Well not at least on my 2.5.
Thinking about the purge valve, I can only assume a fault code is thrown if the ecu detects vapour / additional gas on the inlet? But there's nothing in the plenum before fuel injection that could detect this?
Talking of PCV, if the plastic feed line from the canister is blocked, an open valve wouldn't make much difference..... there can be a lot of crud in there from time to time.
Yes, I did think I should have checked it with 12v across it (but which way?) and if it clicked, tried blowing though it. I hoped it might throw up a fault code, otherwise how would I ever know it had died?
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It obviously doesn't in all cases :( Well not at least on my 2.5.
Thinking about the purge valve, I can only assume a fault code is thrown if the ecu detects vapour / additional gas on the inlet? But there's nothing in the plenum before fuel injection that could detect this?
Talking of PCV, if the plastic feed line from the canister is blocked, an open valve wouldn't make much difference..... there can be a lot of crud in there from time to time.
If no code, what inspired you to investigate it?
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Strangely enough, I was servicing the car and cleaning the breather system, when I came across the PCV.... not knowing what it was, I asked the question on here with a picture of the solenoid valve. I've since read up on the EVAP system and have a better understanding of what it does and how it works.
After mentioning the fact it was open all the time and not responding to 12v on the bench (it doesn't matter which way you connect it, it's just a coil), I was advised to forget about it and quote "If the car runs fine, if it ain't broken don't fix it. :y"
Not wanting to go too much off topic with regard to your misfire problems, I've since been told it does matter, and it could cause the petrol tank to collapse (in extreme conditions) if the engine is drawing in fuel vapour from the purge system when the valve is constantly open. It's just passed its MOT test and has been running very well with no fault lights. It's possible the line from the tank to the canister is blocked, but nobody knows for sure.
I don't know if the PCV and associated pipework is causing your problem, but at the very least you need to make sure the breather system / plenum isn't drawing in air from the engine bay, i.e. make sure it's connected (or blanked off) before going to the next step of your fault diagnosis.
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Strangely enough, I was servicing the car and cleaning the breather system, when I came across the PCV.... not knowing what it was, I asked the question on here with a picture of the solenoid valve. I've since read up on the EVAP system and have a better understanding of what it does and how it works.
After mentioning the fact it was open all the time and not responding to 12v on the bench (it doesn't matter which way you connect it, it's just a coil), I was advised to forget about it and quote "If the car runs fine, if it ain't broken don't fix it. :y"
Not wanting to go too much off topic with regard to your misfire problems, I've since been told it does matter, and it could cause the petrol tank to collapse (in extreme conditions) if the engine is drawing in fuel vapour from the purge system when the valve is constantly open. It's just passed its MOT test and has been running very well with no fault lights. It's possible the line from the tank to the canister is blocked, but nobody knows for sure.
I don't know if the PCV and associated pipework is causing your problem, but at the very least you need to make sure the breather system / plenum isn't drawing in air from the engine bay, i.e. make sure it's connected (or blanked off) before going to the next step of your fault diagnosis.
Thanks for that explanation. Of course you are right, it doesn't matter which way yu connect it, it's only a coil. I now wonder how air gets into the tank to allow fuel to depart without reducing the pressure in the tank. Can it be via the purge line?
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Is the code 19 still present?
On the earlier V6 if you read the codes with the ignition on but engine off then it will always report code 19. It should clear when the engine is running. Else the sensor is foobar or the connector still has an issue.
Cobblers ;)
A 19 is always a corrupted signal. And is 99.9% of the time the sensor, with that 0.1% being a faulty flywheel or ECU.
With engine not running, you get a 30 (No RPM signal) on a pre 2001 V6
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Where is the purge valve on a 2.2? Haynes says on the 2.0 it is mounted on the rear of the cylinde head, on the RHS of the DIS module. The 2.2 has no DIS module, I imagine the purge valve is in a similar place at the back of the head, but cannot see it in any of my photos. Haynes says access may be gained from above or beneath. I enquire because I have an MOT failed 2.2 here I am stripping for spares.
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I believe it attaches to the head slightly below the coolant 'bridge'...
I would check, but no longer have one to explore. Best bet is to follow the plumbing from the inner wing to the engine, it runs alongside the fuel lines iirc ;)
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Today I changed the radiator. I thought the engine might be overheating. This produced no change. I give up.
I will drive this car around, and ponder what is going on. It's not a bad misfire, it only occurs occasionally, when pulling full throttle at low rpm.
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Today I changed the radiator. I thought the engine might be overheating. This produced no change. I give up.
I will drive this car around, and ponder what is going on. It's not a bad misfire, it only occurs occasionally, when pulling full throttle at low rpm.
Did you check/change the spark plugs?
The erosion of the outer electrodes causes the spark gap to increase quite dramatically as the plugs age.
I will post a photo when I get my web hosting working again.....
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Today I changed the radiator. I thought the engine might be overheating. This produced no change. I give up.
I will drive this car around, and ponder what is going on. It's not a bad misfire, it only occurs occasionally, when pulling full throttle at low rpm.
Did you check/change the spark plugs?
The erosion of the outer electrodes causes the spark gap to increase quite dramatically as the plugs age.
I will post a photo when I get my web hosting working again.....
Yes. I have changed spark plugs, plug leads, DIS pack, cam cover gaskets, radiator. The engine runs all right, but not as sweetly as my other 2.5 petrol in regard to full throttle low rpm running. It has been 'chipped' by a previous owner, now I wonder if this could be relevant.
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Could well be. Now that you mention it... ::)
I do worry sometimes...
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Could well be. Now that you mention it... ::)
I do worry sometimes...
I believe previous owner, OOFer ajsphead, chipped it to better match engine to used diesel diff, fitted to replace worn original. That diff became very noisy last year and I replaced it with diff I salvaged from scrapped 3.0. That diff now displays worn crown wheel and pinion, much clonking, and will soon be replaced by diff off son's MOT failed 2.2. I hope the chip can keep up with all these diff changes.
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It's a bit like saying 'my lawn doesn't go stripey when I mow it'. You'll be offered101 suggestions as each one doesn't quite work. Then finally, you mention that you use a goat instead of a roller mower, and, by the way a whole family of moles live under it.
If you believe that the chip is the root of your issues, fit a stock ecu and report back... ;)
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It's a bit like saying 'my lawn doesn't go stripey when I mow it'. You'll be offered101 suggestions as each one doesn't quite work. Then finally, you mention that you use a goat instead of a roller mower, and, by the way a whole family of moles live under it.
If you believe that the chip is the root of your issues, fit a stock ecu and report back... ;)
Thanks Doc, I love your simile. I thought that Senator ECUs were interchangeable, but Omega ECUs were not, as they contain customised information like ignition and alarm codes.
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It's a bit like saying 'my lawn doesn't go stripey when I mow it'. You'll be offered101 suggestions as each one doesn't quite work. Then finally, you mention that you use a goat instead of a roller mower, and, by the way a whole family of moles live under it.
If you believe that the chip is the root of your issues, fit a stock ecu and report back... ;)
Thanks Doc, I love your simile. I thought that Senator ECUs were interchangeable, but Omega ECUs were not, as they contain customised information like ignition and alarm codes.
Post 96 ones are paired to the immobiliser
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Is the code 19 still present?
On the earlier V6 if you read the codes with the ignition on but engine off then it will always report code 19. It should clear when the engine is running. Else the sensor is foobar or the connector still has an issue.
Cobblers ;)
A 19 is always a corrupted signal. And is 99.9% of the time the sensor, with that 0.1% being a faulty flywheel or ECU.
With engine not running, you get a 30 (No RPM signal) on a pre 2001 V6
Hmmm 30? Did you mean 31?
Apologies. Looks like I had that the wrong way round. I must have been thinking of 31 = no RPM signal as opposed to 19 = incorrect RPM signal. Anyway it isn't confirmed whether code 19 is still a problem, since the sensor connector was fixed. So it might all be irrelevant.
Concerning the misfire, not all failed coil packs have splits or cracks or melted bits. I have an original here, somewhere, that looks fine but misfires under load.
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Is the code 19 still present?
On the earlier V6 if you read the codes with the ignition on but engine off then it will always report code 19. It should clear when the engine is running. Else the sensor is foobar or the connector still has an issue.
Cobblers ;)
A 19 is always a corrupted signal. And is 99.9% of the time the sensor, with that 0.1% being a faulty flywheel or ECU.
With engine not running, you get a 30 (No RPM signal) on a pre 2001 V6
Hmmm 30? Did you mean 31?
Apologies. Looks like I had that the wrong way round. I must have been thinking of 31 = no RPM signal as opposed to 19 = incorrect RPM signal. Anyway it isn't confirmed whether code 19 is still a problem, since the sensor connector was fixed. So it might all be irrelevant.
Concerning the misfire, not all failed coil packs have splits or cracks or melted bits. I have an original here, somewhere, that looks fine but misfires under load.
That's worrying. The DIS pack I removed looked all right, as did its replacement. No change in fault.
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One more sympton. It does not misfire under load until thoroughly warmed up.
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Thanks Doc. Placing my old purge valve alongside my new found valve, I discover that they are identical, except someone has blanked off a pipe on the old valve.
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/geb8550rr6rdq5x/purgeVALVES.jpg?dl=1)
As it came with the correct hose I installed it with hose from RH wing one side and hose to breather bridge on the other. Reassembled everything and took it for test drive.
Perfect for the first 10 miles, then it got hilly. Then the engine got hot, 100 degrees, and it misfired full throttle 4th gear 25mph. Got home, the engine overheating symbol flickered on, fans were blowing, temperature slowly fell to 95. I suspect blocked radiator.
Thoroughly warmed up? Do you mean it's hitting 100 degrees still? I know you changed the rad, so what temp do the fans kick in?
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It doesn't get quite as hot in normal use, maybe the old rad was blocked. Sitting idling, the fan kicks in again at about 100 degrees, and drops out at 95, so no change there.
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Hmmm 30? Did you mean 31?
Opps, yes. 31=normal for v6 if engine not running.
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Gentlemen,
following the differential change last week, this car is running sweet as a nut. This afternoon I took it for an extended test drive, down Burrington Combe and up Cheddar Gorge, and it never missed a beat, or overheated. I thank you all for your advice and encouragement. This forum is wonderful.