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Author Topic: No acceleration when cold  (Read 3474 times)

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viper

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No acceleration when cold
« on: 23 November 2014, 22:26:32 »

Hi,

I have a 2001 3.0 V6 Auto.

On a morning, when it is cold, the car starts but idles badly. When pulling away there is no power and the car struggles to stay alive. Then after a minute or so I can floor the throttle and away she goes.

The car is fine when warm.

I have replaced the ICV in the summer, but me thinks the cold, damp weather is playing a part?

Any thoughts? :-\

Andy

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chrisgixer

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Re: No acceleration when cold
« Reply #1 on: 23 November 2014, 22:31:49 »

Temp sensors reading correctly?

(Guessing mind)
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viper

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Re: No acceleration when cold
« Reply #2 on: 24 November 2014, 09:44:01 »

The temp sensor on the dash reads fine.

There is no power even with throttle hard to the floor. The car remains stationary struggling to idle. Then it suddenly leaps into life after about a minute. :-\
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aaronjb

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Re: No acceleration when cold
« Reply #3 on: 24 November 2014, 10:21:58 »

Any flashing CEL indicating a misfire?
Can you read the live data? The dashboard temp gauge is fed from a separate sensor to the ECU coolant temperature so that could be reading wrong, as could the intake air temp or MAF, all of which could conceivably do what you are describing, although perhaps coolant temp is the prime suspect.
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chrisgixer

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Re: No acceleration when cold
« Reply #4 on: 24 November 2014, 10:34:14 »

I guess (again) that it needs a code reader on it with live data to see what temp the Ecu is seeing?

As it sounds to me like it can't tell the engine is cold. Maybe it's relying on a default value, rather than the actual value.
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chrisgixer

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Re: No acceleration when cold
« Reply #5 on: 24 November 2014, 10:35:36 »

Should add, I'm not very good with electrics, so see what others say :y
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viper

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Re: No acceleration when cold
« Reply #6 on: 24 November 2014, 10:50:37 »

No flashing EML when this happens.

The paperclip test reveals nothing.

I have removed the ICV and given it a clean - but it was spotless.

I have tested the car again and the fault is much reduced, but still present. This may be due to today's warmer temperature? This will drop this evening and that's when I will test it again.

Thanks for the help so far.  :y
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viper

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Re: No acceleration when cold
« Reply #7 on: 24 November 2014, 11:42:42 »

Tried the car again - worse than ever!

Car starts fine then idle just dies after a few seconds.

Paperclip test reveals fault codes: 57 - Idle air control voltage low, 19 - Incorrect RPM signal, 13 - 02 Sensor 1 Open Circuit.

I have fitted another ICV but this does not solve the problem :-\

Any thoughts?

Cheers


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chrisgixer

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Re: No acceleration when cold
« Reply #8 on: 24 November 2014, 13:50:43 »

57 possibly historic from the icv replacememt?

13 check the wiring to lambdas.

19 is crank sensor. Replace. Genuine only from dealer. Before it fails completely and won't start at all. (Constant cranking but won't fire) note the plug shape for the dealer, they can't tell the exact part number from epc. You might get two options according to plug shape.
« Last Edit: 24 November 2014, 13:52:50 by chrisgixer »
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viper

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Re: No acceleration when cold
« Reply #9 on: 24 November 2014, 15:11:00 »

The car is stalling when hot as well as cold.

I have replaced the crankshaft sensor with a previous one I had and the problem is the same.

My fear in the past was that there was a dodgy batch of GM/Bosch crankshaft sensors - hence my having to replace 3!

The dealer wants £71.50 for 90540743 / 0261210131

Expensive to keep replacing these things! :'(

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viper

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Re: No acceleration when cold
« Reply #10 on: 24 November 2014, 16:09:11 »

Brand new crankshaft sensor fitted - has made no difference!

Nightmare! >:(

This Omega has sadly proven to be the worst car I have ever had! :'(
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Andy B

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Re: No acceleration when cold
« Reply #11 on: 24 November 2014, 16:27:57 »

...
Any thoughts?

Cheers

As above, try the engine temp sensor - the one with a blue/grey socket on top ie NOT the dash temp gauge sender with the single drawing pin connector.
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chrisgixer

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Re: No acceleration when cold
« Reply #12 on: 24 November 2014, 16:30:05 »

Is there an issue with the loom to crank sensor plug or the plug connection itself perhaps?

....was the icv new? Cleaned and lubed presumably?
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TheBoy

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Re: No acceleration when cold
« Reply #13 on: 24 November 2014, 17:42:35 »

Where in the world are you, viper?
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viper

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Re: No acceleration when cold
« Reply #14 on: 24 November 2014, 17:43:56 »

There is nothing wrong with the crankshaft sensor connector / loom.

The ICV is fully cleaned and gets voltage.

To replace the engine temperature sensor would be similar to the removal of the coolant temperature sensor? As per:- http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=113765.0 ? :-\

This looks like a big job if it is not the sensor! :o

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viper

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Re: No acceleration when cold
« Reply #15 on: 24 November 2014, 17:44:45 »

I am in Sunderland :)
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TheBoy

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Re: No acceleration when cold
« Reply #16 on: 24 November 2014, 17:46:52 »

Don't replace the CTS until you have live data off it!!!
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Kevin Wood

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Re: No acceleration when cold
« Reply #17 on: 25 November 2014, 10:17:48 »

Well, if it's any consolation, with a 19 code, the crank sensor was about to let you down, even if it hasn't cured this problem.

As said, you need to get some live data before changing anything else.
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Diamond Black Geezer

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Re: No acceleration when cold
« Reply #18 on: 25 November 2014, 11:38:48 »

I'm confused - I thought the code 19 'incorrect rpm signal' was standard, because the engine isn't running - thought that was the one you ignore? I stand corrected  ???
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chrisgixer

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Re: No acceleration when cold
« Reply #19 on: 25 November 2014, 12:02:29 »

No that's 31 iirc?
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Kevin Wood

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Re: No acceleration when cold
« Reply #20 on: 25 November 2014, 12:19:15 »

Yep, 19 means the crank sensor signal is incorrect. 31 means there is no signal from the crank sensor (not unusual if the engine is stopped). Not really sure why it reports 31 at all. Just adds confusion.
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viper

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Re: No acceleration when cold
« Reply #21 on: 25 November 2014, 19:00:40 »

It is a Bosch crankshaft sensor from the Vauxhall Dealers.

The 19 fault code still remains!

I disconnected the MAF sensor and restarted the car a number of times. This has made the idle at cold better. Re-connect the MAF and the fault remained!

So I bought a replacement MAF made by Cambiare for £144. Again, restarted the car many times to clear everything and when I tried to pull away the car stalled. I managed to re-start it but the power from the engine was very reduced. I suspect the Cambiare MAF is s**t!

The price of a replacement Bosch MAF is the price of a half decent TV!! :'(

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05omegav6

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Re: No acceleration when cold
« Reply #22 on: 25 November 2014, 19:15:34 »

My original MAF went to shit at around 140k, so fitted a sixty quid cheapy from local factors, which managed about 10k, then died...

Refitted original one and been fine for the last 80k... Go figure ::)

Have you tried the original one again?

I also recall something about using the MAF from a 2.5DI Transit :-\
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viper

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Re: No acceleration when cold
« Reply #23 on: 25 November 2014, 19:18:37 »

Tried it again and again comparing it to Cambiare one bought.

Going to let the car cool right down and try again.

It is only from cold that the car idles badly and then has no power when trying to accelerate - best way to describe it is like not pulling the choke out on a manual choke car!

This car is now costing a small fortune to keep going! :'(
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Andy B

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Re: No acceleration when cold
« Reply #24 on: 25 November 2014, 19:25:43 »

Tried it again and again comparing it to Cambiare one bought.

Going to let the car cool right down and try again.

It is only from cold that the car idles badly and then has no power when trying to accelerate - best way to describe it is like not pulling the choke out on a manual choke car!

This car is now costing a small fortune to keep going! :'(

and you have tried a new coolant temp sensor  ......  :-\
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TheBoy

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Re: No acceleration when cold
« Reply #25 on: 25 November 2014, 19:52:16 »

2.5/3.0 MAFs are bulletproof (unlike 2.6/3.2), so I wouldn't be changing a MAF without proof.

Rather than randomly changing parts, which is always gong to be expensive and introduce additional problems to complicate the issue, it needs some proper diagnosis.

Do you have the facility to get live data from the engine ecu?
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