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[tigers_gonads]

Mini Me's corsa decided to pop the drivers side, rear brake cylinder and empty the brake fluid all over a carpark in town 

Now that side is the one with slightly dodgy bearing and also the drum is stuck on the shaft.

I haven't a tool to draw the drum off so what's the best / quickest way to get the thing stripped down so I can rebuild the brakes.


I'm thinking either destroying the bearing cage with a blowtorch and smashing f**k out of it until it falls apart

OR

Disconnecting the handbrake cable / brake pipe and removing the 4 bolts which hold the hub onto the axel, removing the full drum assembly and abusing it in the relative comfort of the shed with various power tools until its apart 

New drums, shoes, cylinders, bearings on order regardless so both sides are going to be rebuilt ................


TIA 

[BazaJT]

Wouldn't the application of heat help in getting the drum off -obviously after backing the handbrake shoes right off?Are there no tool hire places round your neck of the woods where you could hire a puller for a day/weekend/week?

[dave the builder]

I would opt for plan B if using the wheel for leverage (27mm nut removed) is not fruitful
clicky help video

did you buy drums with bearings fitted or have you got that headache too 

[deviator]

For a job like this, I prefer percussive maintenance

[tigers_gonads]

Wouldn't the application of heat help in getting the drum off -obviously after backing the handbrake shoes right off?Are there no tool hire places round your neck of the woods where you could hire a puller for a day/weekend/week?

I've got about half a can of gas left and with about half of pint of brake fluid been spun about in there, it may come off easier then the last attempt so fingers crossed 

Not looked into a puller yet.

Due to this job, i've not had time as we only got the car home yesterday 

[tigers_gonads]

I would opt for plan B if using the wheel for leverage (27mm nut removed) is not fruitful
clicky help video

did you buy drums with bearings fitted or have you got that headache too 

Tried all that lot in the video last month when I tried to strip it down for a hand brake cable change / MOT time with little success 

The lad has a kit ordered off eBay which comes with 2 drums c/w abs rings.
A pair of bearings (not fitted but i've done the passenger side before with no problem)
A nail / spring kit
A full set of shoes.

[tigers_gonads]

For a job like this, I prefer percussive maintenance

So do I 
I fact it was probably my enthusiasm with made the bearing noisy in the first place 

[tigers_gonads]

What DOT brake fluid is needed for this corsa ?

[henryd]

What DOT brake fluid is needed for this corsa ?

DOT 4 is plenty good enough

[tigers_gonads]

What DOT brake fluid is needed for this corsa ?

DOT 4 is plenty good enough

Cheers 

[tigers_gonads]

Okay, this is turning into a total nightmare 
After 2 hours sat on the wet grass before rain stopped play, I have managed to get about 2 or 3 mm play on the drum.
No about of heat from my blowtorch is going to help this fcucker 
Don't have any other source of heat 
The back plate is now split open due to me managing to get a pry bar in there 

Whats the best way forwards lads ?

Is it just a case of removing the bottom shock bolt, asociated pipes and plugs and 4 bolts to remove the complete unit off the axel ?

Local engineering firm has new owners who ain't interested so its either remove and try to strip in the shed OR replace the back plate and axel shaft and build up with new iner bits and new drum 

[Doctor Gollum]

Can you unbolt the stub axle from behind?

Failing that...

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2005-VAUXHALL-CORSA-C-1796cc-Petrol-Manual-Rear-Dead-Axle-with-ABS-Tag-425538/362477271456?epid=21025454331&hash=item54655439a0:g:a8gAAOSwv1db3MqN:rk:12:pf:0

[tigers_gonads]

Can you unbolt the stub axle from behind?

Failing that...

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2005-VAUXHALL-CORSA-C-1796cc-Petrol-Manual-Rear-Dead-Axle-with-ABS-Tag-425538/362477271456?epid=21025454331&hash=item54655439a0:g:a8gAAOSwv1db3MqN:rk:12:pf:0

That's my thinking Al 

Maybe I can abuse it until it falls apart once its on the ground

OR if I can find a stub axel and rebuild it with the new parts we have bought 

[Doctor Gollum]

Subframe off is only a handful of bolts, and with a disc conversion, could make life a lot easier going forward

[tigers_gonads]

Subframe off is only a handful of bolts, and with a disc conversion, could make life a lot easier going forward

Thought of that BUT Mini Me has just blown 150 quid on 2 new drums, bearings, set of shoes and a pair of new cylinders 

[Doctor Gollum]

Subframe off is only a handful of bolts, and with a disc conversion, could make life a lot easier going forward

Thought of that BUT Mini Me has just blown 150 quid on 2 new drums, bearings, set of shoes and a pair of new cylinders 

OK, get these...

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vauxhall-NOVA-CORSA-TIGRA-REAR-WHEEL-AXLE-STUB-NEW-90129572/171649849381?hash=item27f720d825:g:UhkAAOxyOlhSxX~u:rk:11:pf:0

[BazaJT]

Out of interest is it rust that's stopping the drum from coming off or that there's a wear ridge in the drum that's stopping it clearing the shoes?Best rust buster I've found so far-without resorting to a gas axe-is a 50/50 mix of atf and acetone[nail varnish remover]mix it well and apply by brush/drip it on/trigger type spray.

[Nick W]

You're replacing the drum aren't you?
Cut a couple of slots 180degrees apart with an angle grinder

[dave the builder]

You're replacing the drum aren't you?
Cut a couple of slots 180degrees apart with an angle grinder

Great idea 

[Nick W]

Subframe off is only a handful of bolts, and with a disc conversion, could make life a lot easier going forward

Remove the subframe to make getting the drums off easier? What have you been drinking?

[Doctor Gollum]

My first link showed a complete axle assembly with discs... 

My second link is for brand new genuine stub axles for a tenner each... Twice as many bolts but possibly a simpler solution

[Marks DTM Calib]

Cant see why its not coming off, never even had this, do the drums rotate?

Its usually a case of pull the drum whilst hitting it at 3 then 9 o'clock and away them come.

[tigers_gonads]

Cant see why its not coming off, never even had this, do the drums rotate?

Its usually a case of pull the drum whilst hitting it at 3 then 9 o'clock and away them come.

Been working all day so just seen this lot ...................

Drum rotates on bearing.
Definitely not the pads catching on the drum.

Looking to me like some oppswit has windy gunned on the 32mm nut which secures the drum / bearing onto the spline and with the heat from the worn bearing, its seized onto the shaft.
The 3mm play I have is definitely the bearing breaking down in its cage.

Like the idea of angle grinding a couple of slots @ 3 / 9 o'clock and seeing if I can get a crowbar / couple of pry bars in there 
If that doesn't work, i'll remove that side shock and pull the full unit off and work on it in the shed 

All tomorrow unless I get dragged into work 

If the worse comes to it, Mini Me will have to buy a backplate and abs sensor (if I knacker it) and i'll just rebuild the lot up with the new cylinder / shoes / drum and fit it as a complete unit

As always, thanks lads 

 

[tigers_gonads]

Out of interest is it rust that's stopping the drum from coming off or that there's a wear ridge in the drum that's stopping it clearing the shoes?Best rust buster I've found so far-without resorting to a gas axe-is a 50/50 mix of atf and acetone[nail varnish remover]mix it well and apply by brush/drip it on/trigger type spray.

Bearing seized 
Any rust would have turned to powder with the amount of abuse it got yesterday 

[Doctor Gollum]

Second link is for genuine new stub axles

[tigers_gonads]

Second link is for genuine new stub axles

Gotcha 

[tigers_gonads]

Well after more heat / abuse and burning out my last grinding disc i've just ordered this one off eBay for 11 quid delivered so that's on its way 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VAUXHALL-CORSA-C-00-06-O-S-OFFSIDE-REAR-BRAKE-DRUM-WITH-REAR-WHEEL-BEARING-ABS/263993331435?_trkparms=aid%3D888007%26algo%3DDISC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140328180637%26meid%3D76e96f376861443690dab26bbb99dcac%26pid%3D100009%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D1%26sd%3D332641060445%26itm%3D263993331435&_trksid=p2047675.c100009.m1982

I'll strip it, clean it up and rebuild it with new cylinder, shoes, nail kit, drum and bearing and bolt it back to the car.


I've been led to believe that the recommended torque value for this nut is 175nm 
Can anybody confirm this please ?

[henryd]

Well after more heat / abuse and burning out my last grinding disc i've just ordered this one off eBay for 11 quid delivered so that's on its way 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VAUXHALL-CORSA-C-00-06-O-S-OFFSIDE-REAR-BRAKE-DRUM-WITH-REAR-WHEEL-BEARING-ABS/263993331435?_trkparms=aid%3D888007%26algo%3DDISC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140328180637%26meid%3D76e96f376861443690dab26bbb99dcac%26pid%3D100009%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D1%26sd%3D332641060445%26itm%3D263993331435&_trksid=p2047675.c100009.m1982

I'll strip it, clean it up and rebuild it with new cylinder, shoes, nail kit, drum and bearing and bolt it back to the car.


I've been led to believe that the recommended torque value for this nut is 175nm 
Can anybody confirm this please ?

Yes autodata says 175Nm as well

[tigers_gonads]

Well after more heat / abuse and burning out my last grinding disc i've just ordered this one off eBay for 11 quid delivered so that's on its way 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VAUXHALL-CORSA-C-00-06-O-S-OFFSIDE-REAR-BRAKE-DRUM-WITH-REAR-WHEEL-BEARING-ABS/263993331435?_trkparms=aid%3D888007%26algo%3DDISC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140328180637%26meid%3D76e96f376861443690dab26bbb99dcac%26pid%3D100009%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D1%26sd%3D332641060445%26itm%3D263993331435&_trksid=p2047675.c100009.m1982

I'll strip it, clean it up and rebuild it with new cylinder, shoes, nail kit, drum and bearing and bolt it back to the car.


I've been led to believe that the recommended torque value for this nut is 175nm 
Can anybody confirm this please ?

Yes autodata says 175Nm as well

Cheers 

[tigers_gonads]

Ello peeps 
Apologies for the delay in updating this but its silly season in retail and quite frankly, the cars hardly been touched 

Right, all the rear brakes have been totally rebuilt with new parts.
All put back together and the handbrake works perfectly but we still have major problems with what I can only describe as "No Pedal"

All the rear brakes have been drained of what little fluid was left and new Dot 4 pushed all the way through to the point of all we now get is virgin fluid and no bubbles but regardless of the engine running of not, I get no brakes (or pedal) until I have pumped the peddle down at least twice 
I have also bled the front callipers to the point of no air and steady fresh fluid there too.

Again the peddle is the same. 
I have tried to actuate the abs pump using that code reader which shall never be mentioned by name with the reservoir cap off to see if I have a air lock in the pump but it made no difference 

Anybody have a clue what the problem is ?

Apologies in advance if I don't reply quickly. 
I very rarely get near the pc at the moment but I will answer asap 

[deviator]

Have they always felt like that?

Have anyone pushed the pistons back in without the res lid removed?
This can cause an issue with a rubber seal, it escapes me which one, I want to say master cylinder.

I tend use a compressor driven vacuum bleeder, which avoids a lot of problems. Have you tried doing a full bleed with the engine running?

[tigers_gonads]

Have they always felt like that?

I always use the same mot man and according to his brake testing rollers, the little corsa's brakes are better then the omega 
Brake pedal has always been firm but with very good feel 

Have anyone pushed the pistons back in without the res lid removed?

Not to my knowledge 
This can cause an issue with a rubber seal, it escapes me which one, I want to say master cylinder.

I tend use a compressor driven vacuum bleeder, which avoids a lot of problems. Have you tried doing a full bleed with the engine running?

No
Rapidly running out of fluid / nearly 1 ltr used already

[tigers_gonads]

Have they always felt like that?

Have anyone pushed the pistons back in without the res lid removed?
This can cause an issue with a rubber seal, it escapes me which one, I want to say master cylinder.

I tend use a compressor driven vacuum bleeder, which avoids a lot of problems. Have you tried doing a full bleed with the engine running?

Anymore info on this please ?

More importantly how the opps do I find out were the problem is and how do I fix it ? 

[aaronjb]

I think, in your position, I'd be swapping the master cylinder out - as far as I know that's the only way to determine if it has failed, once you've eliminated the rest of the system, which you appear to have done.

Only other thing would be to blank off the master cylinder outputs and press the pedal, if it still required >1 press then it's definitely master cylinder - but that's just as much work as swapping it out..

[deviator]

If the cap was off when the pistons where pushed back, it shouldn't be an issue. I just remember this coming up on VVOC when I was a Vectra owner.

If you are 100% happy everything bleed correctly & the new parts aren't faulty, then it leaves 3 possible places to investigate.
1. Master cylinder.
2. Servo
3. ABS Pump

[tigers_gonads]

Jesus, why couldn't mini me break it in the friggin summer 
Its a strange one 
Brakes was fist class before this.
I know he hammered the pedal when it happened basically to stop as he was reversing out of a parking spot into the road at the time 

My next thought was I had air in the abs pump 
If so, how do I clear it ?
I have never pulled a master cylinder apart before so reluctant to strip that first 

Again, 'dangle berries' its friggin cold outside 

[Marks DTM Calib]

Usual is that the rear auto adjuster is not working and the handbrake shoes are having to travel a lot to make contact with the drums.

[deviator]

Usual is that the rear auto adjuster is not working and the handbrake shoes are having to travel a lot to make contact with the drums.

Good idea! I didn't consider the obvious.

[Nick W]

Usual is that the rear auto adjuster is not working and the handbrake shoes are having to travel a lot to make contact with the drums.

Good idea! I didn't consider the obvious.

It's worth considering on anything that has auto adjusters on rear drums. Which is pretty much anything designed in the last fifty years. Freeing off the adjusters was one of the first things I used to do on any Capri I had anything to do with: that instantly cured the long pedal that others had all sorts of complicated and expensive cures for.

[henryd]

Pull up the handbrake and try the brakes a couple of times,if pedal becomes good then adjustment  is the answer,if not the master cylinder is probably at fault through a seal failing 

[tigers_gonads]

Just had a word with mini me who i've made do most of the work on his own car for a change 
I can now confirm that both the adjusters were wound all the way back for drum fitting and i've just had a look under the handbrake to find the cable is still slackened off totally 

Thanks for all the input lads and if it isn't too cold tomorrow, i'll tighten the cable and see if I can get to the adjuster via the back plate and take it from there ............ 


Right, off to work 

[tigers_gonads]

Ello peeps, hope you all had a good Christmas and New Year 

Another update on this sack of shite Corsa 
Basically due to work and the friggin cold, it wasn't touched for weeks.

After much pissing around with the rear end, I came to the conclusion that the master cylinder must be fubar'd 
Mini Me ordered one off eBay which due to mini me been a tit and not reading the advert properly  turned out to be the wrong friggin one  .
Anyway with some fine pointers from dad he ordered the correct one next time 

That one was fitted today and everything bled AGAIN just for good measure.
The short version is we now have a very good pedal and the car now stops again 

The rear brake adjustors need winding off quite a bit because the cable is tight and the rear brakes are definitely holding on but a least things are getting there (and mini me is learning hopefully that dad isn't always going to fix his car for him  )

As always, thanks for the help   

[Doctor Gollum]

Don't forget to wash the wrong master cylinder before sending it back

[Marks DTM Calib]

And there MUST be slack in the handbrake cables when released (which is a piece of piss to adjust from inside the car when the handbrake boot is removed)

[tigers_gonads]

Don't forget to wash the wrong master cylinder before sending it back

All ready collecting bubble wrap 

[tigers_gonads]

And there MUST be slack in the handbrake cables when released (which is a piece of piss to adjust from inside the car when the handbrake boot is removed)

Gotcha   

The muppet had been tugging on the handbrake with the cable too tight in the first place and now the the bloody shoes have adjusted that far you now have no clearence in the drum at all 

Question, can the adjuster be wound back from the back of the drum with a screwdriver OR is it drum off time ?

[cam.in.head]

The adjusters inside the drum wont have gone too tight because they only move up one tooth when that tooth is available .if that makes sense .if the shoes are dragging and causing heat there is a small bimetallic expander that may have opened.
If I were you I would just back off the cable so there is some slack in it. That may be all that’s wrong.
If not ,back the cable off COMPLETELY then check drums are free to turn. Press brake pedal hard a few times with a 5 sec waiting time between. If the drums are self adjusting up you should hear a click as they go up tooth by tooth. If not they are either already up or there’s an issue inside .

[tigers_gonads]

The adjusters inside the drum wont have gone too tight because they only move up one tooth when that tooth is available .if that makes sense .if the shoes are dragging and causing heat there is a small bimetallic expander that may have opened.
If I were you I would just back off the cable so there is some slack in it. That may be all that’s wrong.
If not ,back the cable off COMPLETELY then check drums are free to turn. Press brake pedal hard a few times with a 5 sec waiting time between. If the drums are self adjusting up you should hear a click as they go up tooth by tooth. If not they are either already up or there’s an issue inside .

Yeh i've send mini me out complete with 10mm spanner to totally wind off the cable at the handbrake end......... 

[Marks DTM Calib]

The adjusters inside the drum wont have gone too tight because they only move up one tooth when that tooth is available .if that makes sense .if the shoes are dragging and causing heat there is a small bimetallic expander that may have opened.
If I were you I would just back off the cable so there is some slack in it. That may be all that’s wrong.
If not ,back the cable off COMPLETELY then check drums are free to turn. Press brake pedal hard a few times with a 5 sec waiting time between. If the drums are self adjusting up you should hear a click as they go up tooth by tooth. If not they are either already up or there’s an issue inside .

Plus of the cable is to tight, the adjusters don't work 

[tigers_gonads]

The adjusters inside the drum wont have gone too tight because they only move up one tooth when that tooth is available .if that makes sense .if the shoes are dragging and causing heat there is a small bimetallic expander that may have opened.
If I were you I would just back off the cable so there is some slack in it. That may be all that’s wrong.
If not ,back the cable off COMPLETELY then check drums are free to turn. Press brake pedal hard a few times with a 5 sec waiting time between. If the drums are self adjusting up you should hear a click as they go up tooth by tooth. If not they are either already up or there’s an issue inside .

Plus of the cable is to tight, the adjusters don't work 

Well he finally got the near side drum off to find the spring type bar which fits vertically onto the left hand shoe of which the top horizontal spring clips onto has disappeared 
Mini Me swears blind that he fitted it and it must have been abducted by aliens or something 
Personally, I think he has clipped the spring directly onto the shoe but hey, what the break do I know 
Anyway, a new one has been ordered from VX and fingers crossed he can sort it when he next has a day off 

I've always believed in tough love but this episode would try the patience of a saint   

We will get this side sorted and then pull the drivers side down and find out wtf is happening in there 

[tigers_gonads]

Okay the cars back on the road with brakes this time 
Pedal a little soft for my liking but it stops pretty well and in a straight line 
Handbrake is adjusted and will hold the car to a stall on 3 clicks 

I'll probably push a little more fluid threw the system when I get chance to see if I can firm up this pedal 

As always .............. thanks for your help lads