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[Varche]

My elderly (90) disabled mother in law has lived in the same house for the last 65 years. She bought her council house.

Maybe 20 years ago a woman out of "benefits street" TV programme moved in next door into what had become a housing association property.

She lives on benefits, lifetime drug addict and has multiple children from unknown fathers. Some of those under age children are now parents of children of unknown fathers. They have zero regard for property maintenance. The back garden for example became so overgrown with weeds, brambles and conifers that grew to 50 foot in height blocking out all light. Sometimes the mother vanishes and lives elsewhere.

Complaints from the MIL about the rampant weeds growing through and over the six foot fence eventually resulted in some activity. The housing association sent workmen round who chopped a load of stuff down and threw it on the heap of the now sawn off conifer tops which themselves are hardly visible from the latest crop of weeds.

Recently they made an effort (maybe been given an ultimatum by the housing association) and cleared sufficient space for children to play in the back garden for the first time in twenty years. That led inevitably to frisbees and balls occasionally making their way into the MIL's garden. Shortly followed by knocking at the door "can we have our ball back". The MIL moves around extremely slowly and with difficulty by zimmer frame only so this has created a problem. My solution was to tell them anything that came over could be Knocked for and collected once a day at say 5 p.m.ONLY.

That went down like a lead balloon and since then the kids/young adults (as they are old enough to have had children) have started a campaign of silly things like when the family go out, one stays behind and knocks over the full dustbin and then runs on to join the rest. (that was witnessed by the SIL who visited one day). The MIL mobility scooter has been damaged while she goes inside and round to open up the garage.  They can often be heard muttering in the adjoining entryway and yesterday the MIL misplaced her front door key and went into a bad panic as she thought they'd come in and taken it.  On the phone last night she was reducing to whispering "in case they can hear me".

This all might sound like little things but it is having an effect on the MIL's health worrying about what next. Fire? brick threw a window.?

Anyway if you have managed to read so far, anyone got any advice please on a way forward.?  Don't hold out much hope from the H.Assoc as they'd need evidence and she's too old and frail and afraid to provide any.
     

[steve6367]

Not easy thing, but given MIL age and therefore I imagine not being ready for a long fight over the issues can she move?

I know it sound like giving up, but quality of life might be better than 'winning'.

If you want to fight I imagine other family member will need to spend a lot of time there and collecting and recoding evidence will be paramount if the authorities are to do anything.

Steve

[Varche]

Not easy thing, but given MIL age and therefore I imagine not being ready for a long fight over the issues can she move?

I know it sound like giving up, but quality of life might be better than 'winning'.

If you want to fight I imagine other family member will need to spend a lot of time there and collecting and recoding evidence will be paramount if the authorities are to do anything.

Steve

Not really an option. The house has too many memories and has over the years had many adaptations for disabled living. If she were to move it would be to a care home and that would probably finish her off.

[Andy B]

Would CCTV evidence be of any use? 

[mrgreen]

Shit situation,
maybe go around there and talk to them and try and reason with them if there is such a thing with these people, try and play on there sympathy if they have any, bad neighbours are the worst and i can imagine how your MIL is feeling right now, the next step I would take would be to send someone BIG around there "as a friend of your family" and talk with them, usually this works the best in my experience.

 the H.assoc and police  would be last resort as then you're labelled grass and blah blah in the mind of these towrags and it generally doesn't help but if you do go that route i would install cameras and start gathering evidence.

[cleggy]

Friends  called Base Ball and Bat

[mrgreen]

Friends  called Base Ball and Bat

+1

[steve6367]

Problem is, you / friend will then have committed a crime and you may just end up in trouble not them - May not go well once said friend has left and the MIL is on her own.

[Varche]

Good suggestions however nearest male family member is me 1700 miles away.

No Internet at the house but we have toyed with a having service put in purely to hook a Skype phone up to.Maybe we could have a couple of discrete live cams on that as well we could monitor from here. I guess they straight away would lob stones at them and create further distress and mess.

The Housing Association has a whole page of its website devoted to "fine words" about harrasment but would have to be involved at some stage. Whether that would result in them behaving decently as a result is anyones guess.

[Lizzie_Zoom]

Varche, you need to speak to your mother in laws local police about what is anti-social behaviour, with the added element of harassment and threatening behaviour by these individuals towards a disabled OAP.

In addition speak to the local council covering your mother in laws property and explain fully the issues.

Certainly the police take these crimes very seriously and will use their hate crime dept. to investigate and take action, working with the council, to resolve the issues permanently. If this "family" have already received warnings over previous actions then your input can only assist in a resolution.

PS If your mother in law lives in Kent I can give you some contact numbers for the police.

[mrgreen]

Varche, you need to speak to your mother in laws local police about what is anti-social behaviour, with the added element of harassment and threatening behaviour by these individuals towards a disabled OAP.

In addition speak to the local council covering your mother in laws property and explain fully the issues.

Certainly the police take these crimes very seriously and will use their hate crime dept. to investigate and take action, working with the council, to resolve the issues permanently. If this "family" have already received warnings over previous actions then your input can only assist in a resolution.

PS If your mother in law lives in Kent I can give you some contact numbers for the police.

do they really, i'm not always sure, we had a drug dealer living under us in Lewisham and they didn'T seem to care about that or the fact that he threatened one of the flatmates with a knife

[Lizzie_Zoom]

Oh yes they do, but they need often to build a case and gather evidence before taking the final action the public seek. Sometimes this means a gradual process of warnings, cautions, and then arrests before full resolution is possible.

Do not forget the process of law must be thorough and the police are required to satisfy the Crown Prosecution Service that a prosecution, or lesser action, is possible. This can seem a lengthy process at times, and can be in fact due to legal complications.

It all requires intelligence from the general public to assist the police achieve what we all want.
 

[flyer 0712]

Lizzie I agree it all takes time to build up a case against scum like that,however to try to sort this out nicely it has to begin somewhere...If your m.i.l. is capable could she note down,days..times..and  happenings  of these people over a period of say 4 weeks...could you install cctv with a recorder to build up a case of harassment...and then present it to the old bill and housing association as evidence .......Can social services help by going in to see her so that they see people going in and out....Makes me so angry that a person of that age and who is so helpless cant get the protection that she is entitled too,,,,,I would go banging on doors,,police...housing association .....and bang ,and bang and bang until someone took notice of the situation she is in....The yobs like them all have something in common,,big mouths that make big noises and they are listened to....(arh poor things )...so start shouting yourself and hope fully you will be heard too.

[flyer 0712]

Or   send in the heavies 

[Gaffers]

CCTV and follow up with the police. They can be evicted if they are found guilty of being anti-social.  You just need the proof

[jimbobmccoy]

CCTV seems the way to go. This coupled with a diary of when incidents occur can gradually build up a file to be presented to the housing association and police when you have enough to demand action.

CCTV can be connected to a local recorder without the need of internet, and rather than have your MIL record the diary ask her to call you or another family member after any incident and you keep the diary. This will have the added benefit of letting your MIL feel supported and give her the opportunity to vent-these situations often seem worse when kept to ones self, especially when elderly and inclined to 'not want to bother others'.

Obviously distance for you is an issue in getting stuff set up, but if it helps, and your MIL is in London I'd be happy to spare an afternoon to stick a CCTV system in.

It may also be worth seeing if friends or family can pay more frequent visits-the extra presence may be enough to dissuade the scum that it's not worth the Agro as they're not just dealing with a single elderly lady on her own.

[Lizzie_Zoom]

Varche, you need to speak to your mother in laws local police about what is anti-social behaviour, with the added element of harassment and threatening behaviour by these individuals towards a disabled OAP.

In addition speak to the local council covering your mother in laws property and explain fully the issues.

Certainly the police take these crimes very seriously and will use their hate crime dept. to investigate and take action, working with the council, to resolve the issues permanently. If this "family" have already received warnings over previous actions then your input can only assist in a resolution.

PS If your mother in law lives in Kent I can give you some contact numbers for the police.

Although the advice about CCTV is good, I repeat that stated above; involve the police now.

They will follow up your complaint with CCTV and other monitoring devices when they know this involves a vulnerable, disabled woman.  She is living next to God knows who, but the police could well know about them already. You want them on board now, with protection given to this lady if she is being threatened, which could only be hastened if third parties, not involving the police, are seen to be installing CCTV equipment.  You do not know how these neighbours will react to that, and police involvement, coupled with council action, will give her the protection she may need if they react in a threatening manner.

Being connected to the police and advising on these very issues I strongly advise this approach.

[davieboy0312]

Think you need to put up signs stating that cctv is in use or am i talking mince?

[Gaffers]

I have my CCTV setup so I can watch it anywhere I have an internet connection.  I am often away so if the alarm goes off it calls me and I can watch the cctv live.  The police wont attend break ins reported by those away from their property without 2 factor confirmation.

The crux of it is that you can get the dates from the diary she writes and save the recordings from distance.  Make a dossier for the police and sort these ruffians out

[cleggy]

I think that Lizzie's advice is sound, involve the police. If they do not respond to your satisfaction go to her MP, Councillors et all. They should install the monitoring equipment on a temporary basis.
I hope this is speedily resolved, nobody should have to put with scrum and their unacceptable anti social behaviour, let alone to an elderly lady. Whatever happened to respect your elders ?
I am lucky having four sons who are local and some well connected friends should they be needed.
If you know OOF members who live close, liaise with them, I am sure they will help however you want.

[the alarming man]

yes the police would be the first port of call...your (what was called beat bobby) local community team/PCSO (they are in this area) and they work wonders in this area....no need for CCTV evidence to have a word on the parents ear, as housing association tenants they can with evidence evict the little !"£$%^£ and most parents of these feral youths do not know this....until plod knocks on their door and reads them the riot act....This is how it is worked in this part of Kent anyway and it works very well indeed

one other point of contacting your local team as these little !"£$%^& are possibly doing it to others as well

I have worked along side the local teams in north kent for 4 years now dealing with anti social behaviour

[Lagondanet]

CCTV. Remote to you for/viewing recording.  Make sure police and housing association are kept informed. Buy some muscle.

 

[Varche]

Thanks for all the input.  Good advice in there - what I'd like to do and what we will do being two different things.   Getting a camera installed on the roof tomorrow to start gathering evidence.   Also getting a neighbour to take some photos of rocks that keep being thrown over, damage to property etc.  Trouble is, even if evicted, what's to stop them going back in the dead of night and setting her house on fire.   These sort of people - especially when on drugs - know no bounds, and are bound to know far more 'heavies' than I do.
Also going to contact the H.Assoc in the morning to see what their take is.  Maybe contact the police, but remember another local case where a mum and disabled daughter had been harassed for years and reported it many many times.  In the end they parked up in a layby and set themselves on fire as they couldn't take it any more.   The police were "really sorry" ......
I'll let you know how things work out, if indeed they do.

[Vamps]

yes the police would be the first port of call...your (what was called beat bobby) local community team/PCSO (they are in this area) and they work wonders in this area....no need for CCTV evidence to have a word on the parents ear, as housing association tenants they can with evidence evict the little !"£$%^£ and most parents of these feral youths do not know this....until plod knocks on their door and reads them the riot act....This is how it is worked in this part of Kent anyway and it works very well indeed

one other point of contacting your local team as these little !"£$%^& are possibly doing it to others as well

I have worked along side the local teams in north kent for 4 years now dealing with anti social behaviour

What he, and LZ, said, cctv if you want, but sending round the heavies is not the answer as it can't be sustained, in this situation. Complaints to Council and Housing Association will make a difference, things are changing and Landlords are more accountable for their tenants than ever before...............

[Lagondanet]

Thanks for all the input.  Good advice in there - what I'd like to do and what we will do being two different things.   Getting a camera installed on the roof tomorrow to start gathering evidence.   Also getting a neighbour to take some photos of rocks that keep being thrown over, damage to property etc.  Trouble is, even if evicted, what's to stop them going back in the dead of night and setting her house on fire.   These sort of people - especially when on drugs - know no bounds, and are bound to know far more 'heavies' than I do.
Also going to contact the H.Assoc in the morning to see what their take is.  Maybe contact the police, but remember another local case where a mum and disabled daughter had been harassed for years and reported it many many times.  In the end they parked up in a layby and set themselves on fire as they couldn't take it any more.   The police were "really sorry" ......
I'll let you know how things work out, if indeed they do.

Try & find a better place for your MIL.   

[cam2502]

Nothing more to add to what others have said, but I wish your MIL all the best. What kind of country do we live in when an elderly lady is subjected to scum like this 
Boils my blood.

[05omegav6]

Was going to suggest simply shooting the ... but apparently that's frowned upon

Seriously though, reporting it to the Police might not have an obvious immediate effect, but it does set it on record. And that is far more significant than it sounds, as it marks the beginning of an official record. But be sure to get a crime/incident  number

[Lagondanet]

Nothing more to add to what others have said, but I wish your MIL all the best. What kind of country do we live in when an elderly lady is subjected to scum like this 
Boils my blood.

Too right. 

[Lagondanet]

Was going to suggest simply shooting the ... but apparently that's frowned upon

Seriously though, reporting it to the Police might not have an obvious immediate effect, but it does set it on record. And that is far more significant than it sounds, as it marks the beginning of an official record. But be sure to get a crime/incident  number

 

[omegod]

Sorry to say but i would be selling up and shifting her into a supported living type bungalow, understand she will want independance but twighlight years deserve peace and tranquility, not living in fear and harrasment. Once done I'm sure a group of us would happily pay a courtesy visit to the aggressors, I'm definately in...seriously!

[mickyboy123]

i had some problem a few years bak, a family frm hell . they seem to think it was okay to play football against the side of your car and use the roof and bonnet as a trampoline. i got at least 7 good neibours to write letters to the council. they got a warning but nothing changed we all complained again and they were evicted 

[Yasmine Lee]

pm sent as not really something that can be said in open forum

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Thanks for all the input.  Good advice in there - what I'd like to do and what we will do being two different things.   Getting a camera installed on the roof tomorrow to start gathering evidence.   Also getting a neighbour to take some photos of rocks that keep being thrown over, damage to property etc.  Trouble is, even if evicted, what's to stop them going back in the dead of night and setting her house on fire.   These sort of people - especially when on drugs - know no bounds, and are bound to know far more 'heavies' than I do.
Also going to contact the H.Assoc in the morning to see what their take is.  Maybe contact the police, but remember another local case where a mum and disabled daughter had been harassed for years and reported it many many times.  In the end they parked up in a layby and set themselves on fire as they couldn't take it any more.   The police were "really sorry" ......
I'll let you know how things work out, if indeed they do.

I wouldn't be too sure of that, Mr Varche.

On benefits and drugs I doubt that these dysfunctional little shits have any 'real friends'.

My sister was burgled three times by a gang of 10-13 year olds. Apparently the cops were 'too busy to attend'....

As for the police, well, they have more important things to attend to. Like reading the riot act to motorists for recklessly driving at 33 MPH in a 30 MPH zone.

[cleggy]

I really hope that this gets resolved ASAP. A lady in her dotage needs respect and courtesy ,not this from a load of gene pool robbers.
The housing association is responsible for its tenants the housing manager is the main contact point.
PM on its way.

[Varche]

Many thanks everybody for your advice, support and offers of help.  The MIL does come over here to stay for 3 months in the winter but it's far too hot in summer for her.  I reckon she's going to be afraid to leave the house this year though.  Anyway, we're going down the legal routes first to see what reaction/action transpires.   Failing that (or if anything untoward happens to the MIL as a result) I may well follow up on some of your other suggestions .....

[Gaffers]

You know where we are

[Lizzie_Zoom]

yes the police would be the first port of call...your (what was called beat bobby) local community team/PCSO (they are in this area) and they work wonders in this area....no need for CCTV evidence to have a word on the parents ear, as housing association tenants they can with evidence evict the little !"£$%^£ and most parents of these feral youths do not know this....until plod knocks on their door and reads them the riot act....This is how it is worked in this part of Kent anyway and it works very well indeed

one other point of contacting your local team as these little !"£$%^& are possibly doing it to others as well

I have worked along side the local teams in north kent for 4 years now dealing with anti social behaviour

I agree, and that is the team who would deal with this situation.