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[rds]

Hello all

after all this rain recently, I was unable to start car 2.2cdx after a 3 day park-up. I had similar issue two years back and traced that to water in the spark plug wells so checked that again and yup, there it is again although less than last time and some oil evident.

Previously I saw that the foam above the ecotec cover was sodden and  I fitted a plate to redirect drips; it has worked until now but as it has failed this time i thought i'd check back here.

The Maintenance Guide is useful
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=128823.0
however I just cannot seem to orientate myself to the photo: it seems too small for me to work out where
I am supposed to be adding sealant. Can anyone post a better photo please? I feel that the guide needs a bit of amplification, as good as it is already.

Also:
1 Do I need to remove the scuttle to do this?

2 Where do I treat the wiper spindles with sealant?

3 How do you get a good seal between windscreen and scuttle's rubber edge? It does not seems to want to to sit flat around the whole curve of the windscreen and clip at the furtherest left and right ends

4 How to remove the water/oil from the wells before removal of spark plugs? I have tried syringe and hose, cloth and shop-paper without much success. I have no access to good pressure compressed air to blow it out (and don't want the mess either!!)

5 Re the oil, I replaced the breather hose and cleaned through a couple of years back too but I guess the cam box seal has given? I see references to a Maintenance Guide for that so will check there.

All info/guidance etc gratefully received.

Merry Christmas

RDS

[Doctor Gollum]

Remove your plate and foam. The scuttle wasn't built with sealant, so non should be used.

For the cam cover, only use sealant in the corners at the front cam caps. Anywhere else and it won't seal properly 

[Enceladus]

I would just add that if there is any old sealer, varnish or other crud anywhere on the sealing surfaces, please make sure you clean / buff it off before fitting the new seal. The cleaner the surface the better and longer lived the new seal will be. Also make sure you tighten the cover screws evenly, but not overtight, the torque is only 8Nm. Overtightening will distort the cover and the seal will fail.

[rds]

Thanks Doctor Gollum and Enceladus

ref:

Remove your plate and foam. The scuttle wasn't built with sealant, so non should be used.

if i just take off the scuttle plate and then remove the foam, wont that just mean that the water's route to the spark plug wells is going to be easier? is there no way of stopping the water getting into the foam in the first place?

Cheers

RDS

[YZ250]

.....
3 How do you get a good seal between windscreen and scuttle's rubber edge? It does not seems to want to to sit flat around the whole curve of the windscreen and clip at the furtherest left and right ends.

If the rubber has slipped even slightly the dust off the windscreen gets washed in to the small groove in the rubber. As the dust/crap builds up in the groove it reduces the chances of staying in place and won't fit properly when you attempt to fix it back in place. You can just about remove the whole trim by jiggling it between the inner wings and the bonnet struts, clean the groove thoroughly, clean the screen lower edge and then replace it. It will go on better this time and should stay in place to create a better seal.

If you so wish to try to seal using the mastic method, the photo is of the curved metal part of the scuttle under where the two plastic scuttle sections meet. If you lift it up in that area you will see the curved part at the inboard end of the pollen filter housing. The idea was to build a wall of mastic to prevent the water going beyond the natural drain point, which is the pollen filter area drain hole.

[Doctor Gollum]

Thanks Doctor Gollum and Enceladus

ref:

Remove your plate and foam. The scuttle wasn't built with sealant, so non should be used.

if i just take off the scuttle plate and then remove the foam, wont that just mean that the water's route to the spark plug wells is going to be easier? is there no way of stopping the water getting into the foam in the first place?

Cheers

RDS

Water is supposed to drain there, it's how it is designed with that infill section of bulkhead, presumably to aid assembly in the factory...

A different person thought that adding foam to the bulkhead would make the car more refined by helping absorb engine noise... With no thought to the fact that it is a primary water route.

Removing the foam doesn't stop the water, but it does stop it being collected where it can drip onto the coil pack/Dis pack/plug well... Unable to sit in the foam, the water safely drains down the bulkhead away from any ignition electricals

The scuttle isn't assembled using sealant, ergo, it shouldn't be sealed.

[rds]

thanks YZ and DrG

i'll pull this later in the week then, assuming that it stops raining for more than 5 minutes....

Any tips on getting this water/oil mix out of the bores?

Merry Christmas

RDS

[robson]

syringe and pipe

[Doctor Gollum]

Kitchen roll sheets rolled up

[Tick Tock]

Syringe with a bit of pipe on the end.

[rds]

cheers Tick - that looks worse than mine but the last time i used the syringe and tube, it took ages.

RDS

[Doctor Gollum]

If you're feeling lazy, just pull the plugs and wipe the Wells once they have drained

Obviously NOT the preferred method

[Nick W]

cheers Tick - that looks worse than mine but the last time i used the syringe and tube, it took ages.

RDS

use a better syringe

[rds]

If you're feeling lazy, just pull the plugs and wipe the Wells once they have drained

Obviously NOT the preferred method

Exactly what I was trying to avoid!

[rds]

cheers Tick - that looks worse than mine but the last time i used the syringe and tube, it took ages.

RDS

use a better syringe

Standard NHS. Will go private.

[Doctor Gollum]

If you're feeling lazy, just pull the plugs and wipe the Wells once they have drained

Obviously NOT the preferred method

Exactly what I was trying to avoid!

[robson]

Tip the car upside down

[Nick W]

cheers Tick - that looks worse than mine but the last time i used the syringe and tube, it took ages.

RDS

use a better syringe

Standard NHS. Will go private.

medical ones aren't meant for sucking up the thick gunge you're looking at. Laboratory or industrial use are much more suitable. Paint mixers might be a good source.

[rds]

Ah I see thanks. I was going to try the pump from domestic soap dispenser but may be too thick for that too.

[Doctor Gollum]

Haven't you done it yet?

You could have bought the kitchen roll online quicker than this dithering...

[rds]

Kitchen roll fell apart! They don't make it like they used to...Have been working on other things...dithering is reserved for buying rubbish in the sales. I'll get to this in due course.

Cheers

RDS

[biggriffin]

If you're feeling lazy, just pull the plugs and wipe the Wells once they have drained

Obviously NOT the preferred method

.
 Easiest and quickest,  ,

[johnnydog]

Last time I did it, I wrapped some GOOD QUALITY kitchen roll round a long thin flat screwdriver, rotated it round the plug, changing the kitchen roll when it had soaked up to its limit. Once the majority of fluid was out, I removed the plug and made a bigger roll of kitchen roll and using the screwdriver, wiped round the plug bore until acceptably clean.
Using crap kitchen roll will result in it breaking up  (and bits falling into the cylinders once the plug is removed) - a bit like using cheap loo roll....🖕

[rds]

thanks again johhnydog; i'll try better quality kitchen paper.....when, or if, it ever stops raining long enough to do the job in one go!!

RDS

[VXL V6]

Used a syringe with a vac pipe elbow and a short length of vac pipe. Worked a treat.

[rds]

cheers VXL: i found my syringe (NHS type, see above) and hose were not up to it - i could not get deep enough to get all liquid out and the plunger rubber swelled on contact with the oil leading to it jamming and flipping off.

a combination of all these techniques will be re-tried when the weather clears up. It is no fun working outside in the damp.

RDS

[78bex]

 length of clear narrow bore tube & suck on the end  worked for me

[robson]

I cannot believe how this job can be so difficult

[robson]

Where are you someone in your locality might have the appropriate gear.

[Webby the Bear]

If you're feeling lazy, just pull the plugs and wipe the Wells once they have drained

Obviously NOT the preferred method

.
 Easiest and quickest,  ,

Not true BG. Shoot each well with compressed air. You will cover yourself and the entire engine bay in oil but the oil will burn off and I was going to shower after anyway 😜🤣🤣🤣

[Nick W]

I cannot believe how this job can be so difficult

it isn't.

[terry paget]

length of clear narrow bore tube & suck on the end  worked for me

How I've always done it.

[rds]

UPDATE:

I used the soap pump method and got a load of oil out from all wells and also a little water from no4 cylinder well. Then I wicked out the rest with PLENTY kitchen paper; syringe method ineffectual.

New gasket and O rings fitted. Applied sealant on the front four flat sections around the arches per the suggestion on the Maintenance Guide and fitted all back together.

Car would not start. There was a partial "catch" then definite non-start.

Took out plugs, bearing in mind these are 3 years old they were grotty on the insulators due to the oil contamination but also the plug tips were filthy. Cleaned all up and refitted: car wont start. it turns over freely (although sounds different  - as if starter is not spinning anything apart from itself) and won't catch.

I'll order a new set of plugs but is it likely the coil pack and the camshaft sensor loom connector have suffered in this process:
coil pack due to being short circuited die to the oil and water, and
loom connector to camshaft sensor due to being tugged out of a tight sensor?

In other words why wont this car start now? No codes stored. Tried jump start pack in case battery low; no start either. Advice gratefully received.

cheers

RDS

[VXL V6]

2.2? Is cam sensor connection OK? Strange not to have codes.

[rds]

yes 2.2
cam sensor pushed right in but the surround clasp fell off.
if the wire connections in the male harness plug are now damaged, how far does the harness go back to the next junction for a replacement?

[Doctor Gollum]

To the ecu

[rds]

I bet that is a s*d. Might have to splice in then if I get no continuity on back probing.

[Enceladus]

Let's just clarify.

The car was parked up for three days, in heavy rain, then couldn't be started.
Renewal of the cam cover seals and cleaning the plug wells and plugs has not cured the non-start.
So disturbance of the cam sensor connector whilst fitting the seals didn't cause the original issue. The fault was already present.

AIUI the car should start with the cam sensor disconnected. Albeit you might need to turn it over for longer, the engine will have impaired fuel economy whilst running and a fault light will be triggered.

Something else is wrong.
From your description it sounds like the starter motor is not engaging and spinning the engine. Have a look from the front whilst an assistant turns the engine over. Can you see the auxiliary belt moving? Put some chalk marks on the belt if it makes it easier to see.

What's the rested battery voltage?
What's the battery voltage whilst cranking? You'll need an assistant to turn the engine over?
And is the car an auto or a manual?

And what did you use to check for fault codes?

[Doctor Gollum]

Let's just clarify.

The car was parked up for three days, in heavy rain, then couldn't be started.
Renewal of the cam cover seals and cleaning the plug wells and plugs has not cured the non-start.
So disturbance of the cam sensor connector whilst fitting the seals didn't cause the original issue. The fault was already present.

AIUI the car should start with the CRANK sensor disconnected. Albeit you might need to turn it over for longer, the engine will have impaired fuel economy whilst running and a fault light will be triggered.

Something else is wrong.
From your description it sounds like the starter motor is not engaging and spinning the engine. Have a look from the front whilst an assistant turns the engine over. Can you see the auxiliary belt moving? Put some chalk marks on the belt if it makes it easier to see.

What's the rested battery voltage?
What's the battery voltage whilst cranking? You'll need an assistant to turn the engine over?
And is the car an auto or a manual?

And what did you use to check for fault codes?

Fixed for clarity... Four cylinder will eventually start with a knackered crank sensor, V6 will flatten the battery trying.

Cam sensor is critical to engine running. Ecu won't release fuel until the cam sensor confirms engine rotation, ideally in conjunction with crank signal. No fuel=no start.

Misfire from soiled plug wells was the original problem.

Removing the foam, replacing plugs, camcover seal and coil pack should have rectified the misfire issue.

Temp repair to the cam sensor plug/loom should get the car running to confirm rectification of the original fault. 

[Enceladus]

Now I'm not saying the the cam sensor is not the culprit. Just that nothing that's been done has altered the original issue.
Opening post 22nd Dec 2019.
The OP doesn't say he can start the engine, but it misfires. He says it won't start at all.

................... after all this rain recently, I was unable to start car 2.2cdx after a 3 day park-up. I had similar issue two years back and traced that to water in the spark plug wells so checked that again and yup, there it is again although less than last time and some oil evident.

Then we have on Sunday.

Car would not start. There was a partial "catch" then definite non-start.

Took out plugs, bearing in mind these are 3 years old they were grotty on the insulators due to the oil contamination but also the plug tips were filthy. Cleaned all up and refitted: car wont start. it turns over freely (although sounds different  - as if starter is not spinning anything apart from itself) and won't catch.

So the car still won't start. Whatever work has been done has not fixed the original issue. The broken/missing  secondary shroud on the cam sensor connector won't prevent the business part of the connector locking into the cam sensor. Or impact the waterproofing. If the cam sensor is now disconnected due to pin damage or whatever then there should be a fault code set when the engine is turned over.

Now we are told the starter motor sounds different. So is the starter actually turning the engine over?

And let's understand how the OP is checking for fault codes.

[rds]

Many thanks for the further input. Apologies if the info was not clear or consistent but things occur to me (OP) afterwards....

Going back to the situation when i left the car for a period when it rained heavily: i tried to start it as usual and there was an initial catch and instantaneous faulure to coninue to run. This happeded again yesterday after i cleaned the wells out, cleaned the plugs and fitted the new gaskets and lubed the cams up a bit too.

ref the salient pionts in the last two emails:
"So disturbance of the cam sensor connector whilst fitting the seals didn't cause the original issue. The fault was already present."
yes, i agree, however the issue ast time this happned (apart from the starter "light" noise) was due to the water in the wells; hence my actin this time.

"Something else is wrong". see my comments within in italic:
From your description it sounds like the starter motor is not engaging and spinning the engine. Have a look from the front whilst an assistant turns the engine over. Can you see the auxiliary belt moving? Put some chalk marks on the belt if it makes it easier to see. perhaps it is not engaging at least for long enough to catch. I have no assistant where i left the car, sadly. good idea, will have to do that eg using phone in video mode

What's the rested battery voltage? 12.6v, then after a few tries 11.8v; now recharged to 12.6v
What's the battery voltage whilst cranking? You'll need an assistant to turn the engine over? do not know, i can put MM on "max" funtion and spin over as no assistant
And is the car an auto or a manual? auto

And what did you use to check for fault codes? Scanner Pro (ie odbII reader and re-set. I have a better item here at home so can use that next time i go down to the car.

Foam: had no time to remove that but have left top of engine covered in plastic bags pending return. foam seems attached by push on toothed washers on studs; is that it to remove the foam?

New cam sensor (Delphi), plugs (Bosch), coil pack (Bosch) now purchased.

Action:
1 video the aux belt with chalk marker,
2 test for codes with other scanner
3 then new Plugs and new coil pack will be fitted at same time
4 Then if no joy, the cam sensor will be fitted (back probe the old connector for electrical connectivity first).

Is that acceptable as a logical approach?

Many thanks again

RDS

[Doctor Gollum]

Foam will tear off easily enough

[rds]

TEAR??!
...as a last resort!!

odd though this time there was little water but plenty oil. Still, if it has to go, it has to go.

[Doctor Gollum]

OK tear sounds dramatic , just feel for the soggy patch and squeeze... It will practically fall off

[rds]

mine is still well attached though "heavy" with water i think, so will likely try the retaining washers first. I fitted a drip tray under it last time and it has served well. Until now.

[Doctor Gollum]

You only need to remove the corner next to the coil pack plug. If it's sodden, it will fall away easily enough.

[rds]

My parts arrived yesterday and I had the chance to work on the car this morning.

I tied to be gentle with the sponge: no joy and resorted to pulling it out as the experts hereinabove recommended!!

Battery this morning showed at 12.1v which is lower than I expected. The starter motor sounded different from the other day’s whizzing and closer to “usual”; the aux belts moved so the starter motor is engaging. No codes present but i managed to forget the better reader and used the more basic one again.

With new plugs and new coil car fired up right away but with some valve clatter; I assume the hydraulic tappets needed time to fill up again. Settled to an idle immediately at charging at 13.9v (no other load on)- note to self keep an eye on battery....

HOWEVER I think I still see an oil leak from the rear of the cam cover due to oil on driveway. The cam cover was supposed to go back dry (apart from front quarters per the Maintenance Guide) but I think that a thin layer of flange sealant would have been better here. Anyone agree/disagree?

Pending getting up on ramps (Saturday) and getting underneath to be sure, I have taken packs off to check the wells; some little oil still visible on paper towel which is worrying.

I would like to test the old coil pack cassette and plugs in due course. 4 plugs and 6 terminals in the connector…..I'll see if the manual lists the terminal pins, but if anyone has the info handy please post....

[Enceladus]

Did you clean out the crankcase breathers?
The seal is easily displaced on re-assembly at the semi circular cutouts at the back of the head. Have a feel with your fingers.
The gasket will seal if the mating surfaces are clean. No varnish or old sealer or gunge.
Did you obverse the very low torque and even tightening  for the cover? Too tight or uneven and the cover will warp and the seal will leak?
Some on here will also say that only a genuine Vauxhall part will work. Any reasonable quality seal should work. There were millions of this engine family made.

[rds]

all good points thanks Enceladus:

crank case breather cleaned about a year ago so will do again definitely
half moons seem in place; will check for leak now cooled down
mating surfaces clean as could be! no leaks on outside passenger side but suspect seepage into wells
yes 8Nm ech and used a sequential and criss-cross pattern working from inside out
yes genuine Vauxhall parts used

cheers

RDS

[Doctor Gollum]

Re the rear oil leak...

Are the half moons correctly seated?

They should feel as though they are about half an inch pound of both the cover and the head, it is really easy to misfit them and end up with oil everywhere 

[rds]

thanks, feeling the back of the cam cover yesterday they felt almost flush, maybe 2mm off the surfaces. Not good....

[Doctor Gollum]

Off the surface should be fine, visual check with a camera phone should confirm

It feels like 1/4, but the width of the seal flange is probably half that...

Those half moons are easy to pinch though...

[rds]

yes i found they were easy to get out of line especially as i had to wiggle in: there was little free space at the front to "drop" in.

[rds]

...that is, drop in the cam cover.

[rds]

By way of update I had another bash at the car today; the following may be of interest:
1 no codes stored even with a more comprehensive scanner (Foxwell NT414)
2 some water ingress into engine bay above spark plug wells - not convinced the removal of the sponge has really helped here....
3 cam cover is seating well and no apparent leaking oil
4 oil breather cleaned (was clean anyway though)
5 old oil cleaned off casings and components
6 changed New coil pack BACK to Old coil pack and tried to start…
7 fired up straight away so the coils may not have been the problem but rather those sorry 2 year old plugs (saved them for you to see)
8 check codes again and none stored, not even pending codes
9 oil and filter changed
10 attempted to get scuttle to windscreen seal to fit properly: FAILED.

Now, before undertaking item 6 I compared readings on both new and old coil packs: 6 terminals and 4 plug outlets:
1 resistances from what I took to be the SW feed to the CB (yes I know that it is not a points system, but for ease of explanation) terminals so as to test the primary resistance: 1.3 Ohms on both old and new packs
2 one non-primary reading across terminals was 0.9Ohms on old and new coil packs and
3 the last non-primary reading was “out of scale” even on 2MOhm scale
4 Trying to read secondary resistances yielded all as immediately out of scale  for the NEW coil pack on the 2MOhm scale but on the old coil pack the readings oscillated about before returning to "out of scale" or in two cases, settled at 400Ohm.

I am thing of leaving the OLD coil pack installed until I can be sure there is no oil leakage

Questions:
A anything odd occur to you with the readings comparing old and new coil packs?
B Do you think the old coil pack is suspect and bound to let me down if I use it on the road? I let car idle for about 30 mins with the old coil back in.
C can anyone please post clear pics of what they have done to stop water dripping onto the electrics and into the spark plug wells
D what IS the trick to get the windscreen to scuttle seal to sit flush and actually seal??? Push one place and it rucks up elsewhere or push everywhere and it then springs back....

I really would like to thank everyone who has contributed to this thread so far; it has really helped me!

Cheers

RDS

[Doctor Gollum]

Removing the foam allows the water to run down the bulkhead and drip out under the car  not much else to do.

Fitting the scuttle to screen rubber properly is a screen out job. You can bodge it, but as you have discovered it is almost impossible to fit the twist clips with the rubber in situ, so people don't bother and then the scuttle doesn't sit right. Sealant is not a solution. 

Re the new coil pack... Was it genuine Bosch/GM or some cheapy one? You get what you pay for with ignition parts

[johnnydog]

Fitting the scuttle to screen rubber properly is a screen out job. You can bodge it, but as you have discovered it is almost impossible to fit the twist clips with the rubber in situ, so people don't bother and then the scuttle doesn't sit right. Sealant is not a solution. 

Of course you can fit the scuttle clips with the lower screen rubber in situ!
As long as the rubber is in good condition, with no cracks along the lower edge due to perishing which will cause it to split, get a trim clip removal tool that is curved, slide it under the lower edge of the rubber, and with the aid of the tool and your thumb, lift the edge of the rubber, and using a pair of curved long nosed pliers place the clip in each hole in turn whilst moving along the rubber lifting it above each hole. Before you remove your thumb from above each hole, once the clip is in place, use a large flat screwdriver to press down on each clip and turn it through 90 degrees to secure.
Alternatively remove the lower trim (carefully - don't just pull it upwards or it will tear). I lift it from one end sliding a very thin screwdriver or hooked tool under the lip that sits in the retainer, and once started, slide a lubricated piece of insulated wire along its length which lifts the rubber completely from the retainer. To refit, make sure the groove in the retainer is clear of silt, clean the lower rubber trim, and lubricate it with silicone spray or lightly with some rubber grease, and gently feed it into the retainer pushing it down as you work along its length, ensuring it is in the right position at the end you start at.
If the scuttle twist clips are very tight to turn, if is usually because corrosion on the lower windscreen panel causes the metal to expand.

[rds]

Re the new coil pack... Was it genuine Bosch/GM or some cheapy one? You get what you pay for with ignition parts

thanks - It was a genuine Bosch/GM as is the new one.

RDS

[rds]

cheers Johnny Dog - however none of that actually rings a bell ref the removal/refit of the scuttle panel but it has been a while since i last took that off and i have done other cars that are differently secured since then, hence my confusion now.

Just to be sure we are talking about the same thing, i cannot get the rubber trim at the edge of the plastic scuttle panel to sit tight against the windscreen. I went to see another omega today today and that was even worse. So, are your instructions meant to deal with getting the rubber seal to sit correctly?

[rds]

Removing the foam allows the water to run down the bulkhead and drip out under the car  not much else to do.

Thanks again. Well, to test that, i laid a large garden waste plastic bag over the engine and left the rear area toward the bulkhead clear last night. By the morning after several hours of rain, I had collected a fair amount of water on it (not condensation). I therefore think that the water from the scuttle area does not run back to the bulkhead but instead drips through the gaps in the scuttle and then finds its way to the spark plug wells. Most annoying as this will just lead to a repeat of the same problem.

[Doctor Gollum]

Do you park on a slope?

Also, the rubber against the windscreen not fitting correctly will see most of the water drain under the scuttle...

This trim sits in a frame that SLOTS onto the bottom edge of the screen. This frame can come away from the screen and fill with detritus. It can only be removed/refitted properly by removing the scuttle... If the screen is correctly located there isn't space to remove the frame without damage and once that happens it will never fit properly.

Johnny dog is technically correct that the scuttle clips can carefully be removed with the seal in situ, but he knows his cars intimately. What the 5+ previous owners and shite garages have or haven't done to yours is anyone's guess but there's no reason to get any significant water on the top of the engine unless you always park it facing down hill. Besides, the seal between scuttle and bonnet should prevent any water from accessing over the top of the scuttle which is the only way you could possibly catch water on top of the engine 

[johnnydog]

cheers Johnny Dog - however none of that actually rings a bell ref the removal/refit of the scuttle panel but it has been a while since i last took that off and i have done other cars that are differently secured since then, hence my confusion now.

Just to be sure we are talking about the same thing, i cannot get the rubber trim at the edge of the plastic scuttle panel to sit tight against the windscreen. I went to see another omega today today and that was even worse. So, are your instructions meant to deal with getting the rubber seal to sit correctly?

Don't forget that over the years if the lower rubber seal has been misaligned, to get it to fit snugly against the bottom of the screen maybe be difficult or possibly impossible to do as rubbers can be awkward to sit or position correctly after years of being out of shape.
I'm not certain whether they are still available from Vauxhall, but for the cost, I may be tempted to replace it with new. Then at least it should sit correctly in the retainer and hopefully 'hug' the lower edge of the screen to reduce any water ingress.
There has been previous discussion on here whether the top edge of the lower rubber should be sealed again the glass with the flexible windscreen sealer - my opinion is that if it doesn't cure it with a new seal, then it shouldn't theoretically do any harm. Not everyone agrees, but not everyone has a leak that is seemingly difficult to cure.
In my 2.6, the scuttle has been off a few times for various reasons but the foam is always dry as a bone, and it has no silicone in the recommended area under the scuttle and it is still on it's original plugs and coil packs with no indication of a misfire through water ingress (67k) yet I have a 3.2 on which the foam is continuously damp (not soaking wet), but on the majority of Omegas I've owned, there is always a degree dampness on the rear passenger side of the engine if not used for a few days, but if used regularly the heat of the engine drys what bit of dampness there is.

[rds]

Hello Johnny
apologies for the late reply, no internet from talktalk AGAIN.

The problem with the seal is that the circumference of the curve of the rubber seems to be different from that of the screen hence the difficulty in getting a good seal and this is compounded as you say with the rubber taking a "set" to a different shape after a time of misalignment. The thing has never sat correctly after the pollen filter was first changed - another daft bit of design. I have also the same problem on another vehicle (a secondary bead or sealant under the lip oof the seal made no difference at all) and having viewed a possible replacement omega the other day, noted that one was even worse.

Not sure if the seal are available: just called making dealer for an airfilter - none in stock and special order  and GM coolant - only single litres available!! Will try Autovaux. Apart from that, I will clean back, re-fit and hope.

Cheers

RDS

[johnnydog]

Without reading through all your previous posts - has it had a replacement screen at any time?
If it has, then it's likely to be an aftermarket such as Pilkington. The only issue that may not help the seating of the lower seal is that, if it has had a new screen, it may not have been positioned correctly in the aperture - too much sealant can cause the screen to sit proud, and too little may cause it to sit low (not the vertical positioning). If the latter is the case, then the lower seal will not sit correctly and be raised at its highest side where it should be a snug fit against the glass, leaving a small gap between the seal and the glass. If the opposite is the case ie the glass sits higher, the possible gap would be between the scuttle and the rubber which isn't as much of an issue.
The glass fitter has to be a bit of a plonker to fit it incorrectly though as I have described. If a new screen has been fitted , a good clue always to the quality of fitment of a replacement windscreen is how the rubber sits at both top corners.
The above a bit of a long shot perhaps, but my first port of call would be get a new lower rubber.
You mention about the seal having never seated properly after the pollen filter change - are we talking about the same seal? The pollen filter change requires you lift the front of the scuttle to bonnet seal on the nearside before lifting the access flap but this seal is just a push on fit. The lower seal I am referring to is the seal at the bottom of the screen to the scuttle that hides the scuttle trim clips.

[Doctor Gollum]

The frames and rubbers should have been fitted to the screen BEFORE fitting to the car.

[rds]

Without reading through all your previous posts - has it had a replacement screen at any time?...... The lower seal I am referring to is the seal at the bottom of the screen to the scuttle that hides the scuttle trim clips.

It's the original screen thankfully.

Yes I am referring to the flexible curved seal at the bottom of the screen as well.

Apologies, I must have confused myself between the Omega and another car that I had to remove the scuttle to replace the pollen filter (with the same poor re-fitting result), but in any case the Omega's seal has been removed during my attention to the power sounder issue a few years back. Autovaux do not think they can help with the parts in this area. Do you know the part number by any chance?

cheers

RDS

[Doctor Gollum]

It is highly unlikely that a new seal will sit correctly in the old frame.

For one thing the profile of the clip edge could well be different and also, exposed to UV light, the plastic of the frame is likely to be brittle.

Which is partly why I said that to do the job properly, the screen needs to come out. Bodging the power sounder removal by pulling the seal is likely to prove an expensive mistake. 

[johnnydog]

The lower rubber moulding (seal) is 9175100.
I personally have never had a problem inserting this moulding when everything is in place; the retainer (which can be brittle as DG says through age) needs to be treated gently, and be perfectly clean from any silt or dirt, as does the tongue on the seal / moulding. A little bit of lube assists its replacement, pressing down gently above the tongue as you press it home.

[Doctor Gollum]

The lower rubber moulding (seal) is 9175100.
I personally have never had a problem inserting this moulding when everything is in place; the retainer (which can be brittle as DG says through age) needs to be treated gently, and be perfectly clean from any silt or dirt, as does the tongue on the seal / moulding. A little bit of lube assists its replacement, pressing down gently above the tongue as you press it home.
Taking care not to push the frame down off the screen.

[rds]

Great thank you johnny - will give it a go hopefully at weekend.....after replacing the heater bypass valve....again

RDS