Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[rds]

Yes it is me..again...

As part of the numerous jobs to do to keep the wonderful car (2.2L) on the road, I need to change the HBV again, this time using a genuine GM type.

However, although i have removed the scuttle panel (again) and the bracket over the wiper mechanism and tried to work from below, i just cannot seem to get any purchase on the hoses going to the HBV (NB car is on 9" ramps now). There is only room for one hand to get in from above or below and that means the whole assembly moves as I try and fail to get hoses off.

Any tricks here?
Any more parts to come off first?
How do the "quick release" unions at the bulkhead work? Will they help me achieve the goal?

I have drained coolant down whilst on ramp - not sure if there is any more coolant that will exit on taking valve out. I have tried clamps but that reduces yet further the minimal room available.

Are there any modifications, that others have tried successfully, to make the job easier next time, eg extending the hoses.....?

cheers

RDS

[Andy B]

If you have the scuttle off, you've done a fair part of the job. The last hbv I changed (on a V6) was in a field on holiday .... can't now remember the full task in hand but IIRC I opened the spring clips with Molegrips/Vicegrips.
There are specific pliers to release them, though I've always manged without.

[Doctor Gollum]

How big are your hands?

I have honestly never removed a scuttle to replace an HBV. Putting it back on the ground will make everything alot easier to reach... 

Get the clips along the hoses and pull the hoses off. Replace the clips with stainless jubilee clips.

Only other advice, is to not stress the hose down to the side of the engine as that will leak and they're almost impossible to find.

[Andy B]

How big are your hands?

I have honestly never removed a scuttle to replace an HBV. Putting it back on the ground will make everything alot easier to reach...  ....

But it takes 15 mins to remove the scuttle ..... surely that's 15 mins spent well to give you un-hindered access 

[terry paget]

Pic of HBV in my hand.
It's a tricky job. I once did one on a 2 litre Omega from below, standing in my pit, but it's easier from above. You have to find it, then heave it up using the slack on the hoses - be rough with it  - then noting where the hoses go, compress the hose clips with the right tool and pull them off; they may be stuck. Once they are off you can lubricate the new valve and the hoses will go on easily. I have a special tool to compress the spring clips which makes it easier. Then manoeuvre the hoses around on the clip so that the new HBV will go back into place without a hose kinking, or you will get no heat.
Originally it was secured in place by a clip, but by now it will have been changed and should lift out freely.

[johnnydog]

Last one I did, I removed the wiper linkage. With the wiper arms and scuttle already off, the few minutes extra to remove the linkage made access a whole lot easier.

[Doctor Gollum]

How big are your hands?

I have honestly never removed a scuttle to replace an HBV. Putting it back on the ground will make everything alot easier to reach...  ....

But it takes 15 mins to remove the scuttle ..... surely that's 15 mins spent well to give you un-hindered access 

No point on the Desmond. On the V6, it takes 30 seconds to unbolt the plenum

[biggriffin]

How big are your hands?

I have honestly never removed a scuttle to replace an HBV. Putting it back on the ground will make everything alot easier to reach...  ....

But it takes 15 mins to remove the scuttle ..... surely that's 15 mins spent well to give you un-hindered access 

No point on the Desmond. On the V6, it takes 30 seconds to unbolt the plenum

 
Needle nose vice grips, no need to remove scuttle or wiper gubbins, bit of wiggling, it comes out.

[Andy B]

How big are your hands?

I have honestly never removed a scuttle to replace an HBV. Putting it back on the ground will make everything alot easier to reach...  ....

But it takes 15 mins to remove the scuttle ..... surely that's 15 mins spent well to give you un-hindered access 

No point on the Desmond. On the V6, it takes 30 seconds to unbolt the plenum

If I ever do another hbv I'll remember .... 

[YZ250]

.... can't now remember the full task in hand but IIRC I opened the spring clips with Molegrips/Vicegrips.
...

I also use Molegrips, but a specific type. The type with the multi-point adjuster, as a multi point socket fits on it. Open the jaws wide, get a reasonable grip on the spring clip when closing, put socket on the end and tighten until the clip is loose. Remove hose, remove moles and repeat for the other large hose. So easy it's almost enjoyable.   

[rds]

many thanks for all the swift replies.

How big are your hands?

I have honestly never removed a scuttle to replace an HBV. Putting it back on the ground will make everything alot easier to reach... 

Get the clips along the hoses and pull the hoses off. Replace the clips with stainless jubilee clips.

Only other advice, is to not stress the hose down to the side of the engine as that will leak and they're almost impossible to find.

my hands are the worst type: large, weak and delicate!

The hoses are indeed secured by proper Jubilee clips and they are far easier to use than the sprung OEM types.

re stressing the hose; I agree totally that's why i was a little worried to follow the other advice to be rough....

As for the picture in one of the posts, that looks like much more room than I seem to have. The hoses will not release from the spigots on the HBV. There is as little space from above as there is from below as far as i can see and the "slack" that one post refers to is just not there.

The HBV is just hanging there and supported only by the hoses, isn't it? ie it is not clipped/secured to anything else?

So, are the "quick release" unions at the bulkhead a no-go?

Taking the manifold off seems a bit excessive: are there any other items or hoses that can come off easily to make more room? what about the tube from the brake servo? Or does another dimension of pain and work await down that route?

[Doctor Gollum]

Pulling the manifold (plenum) is a V6 cheat. No need on the 4pot.

[biggriffin]

many thanks for all the swift replies.

How big are your hands?

I have honestly never removed a scuttle to replace an HBV. Putting it back on the ground will make everything alot easier to reach... 

Get the clips along the hoses and pull the hoses off. Replace the clips with stainless jubilee clips.

Only other advice, is to not stress the hose down to the side of the engine as that will leak and they're almost impossible to find.

my hands are the worst type: large, weak and delicate!

The hoses are indeed secured by proper Jubilee clips and they are far easier to use than the sprung OEM types.

re stressing the hose; I agree totally that's why i was a little worried to follow the other advice to be rough....

As for the picture in one of the posts, that looks like much more room than I seem to have. The hoses will not release from the spigots on the HBV. There is as little space from above as there is from below as far as i can see and the "slack" that one post refers to is just not there.

The HBV is just hanging there and supported only by the hoses, isn't it? ie it is not clipped/secured to anything else?

So, are the "quick release" unions at the bulkhead a no-go?

Taking the manifold off seems a bit excessive: are there any other items or hoses that can come off easily to make more room? what about the tube from the brake servo? Or does another dimension of pain and work await down that route?

 You need a flexible hoseclip screwdriver.
  https://www.amazon.co.uk/Flexible-6mm-Hose-Clip-Screwdriver/dp/B079313CG9

[rds]

Thanks but the clips aren't the problem, it's the hoses themselves that won't come off due to lack of access.

[Doctor Gollum]

Twist the hoses to 'crack' them from the Hbv spigots

[Nick W]

Thanks but the clips aren't the problem, it's the hoses themselves that won't come off due to lack of access.

that's common for rubber hoses that have been in place for years. You need to break their grip on the HBV by twisting in opposite directions. There isn't really room to use a blunt tool to help with this, unlike on a radiator hose. Don't fiddle with the bulkhead connections, as they're even worse to deal with.


I remove the scuttle to do this job but leave the wipers and plenum in place, removing either isn't worth the extra effort.


Take a couple of MTFU pills, and get on with it

[rds]

Thanks again that was hard to do on the first because they all resisted force. Managed to get top hose (ie top one of the vertical pair) off using hose pick to free joint. The opposite lower hose needed a crow bar from below) I kid you not) to be eased off and the lower hose of the vertical pair just span on spigot until edged off with lever, both last hoses only possible from below.

I considered freeing hoses at other ends but that was going to involve more risk.

Having a rest now to regroup for the next assault....

[rds]

Cheers Nick re bulkhead union advice. I didn't fancy that...

I'll have to see if those pills are on the NHS....

Is there no retro fit better solution for this rotten job? Copper pipe extensions to pick up on new sections of hose to bring the valve further up into engine bay?

[Doctor Gollum]

A chap in the US did such a mod, but you have really overegged an fiddly, but simple job

[rds]

Easy enough to say from afar but no I've not over egged at all, it us just very fiddly which makes the job rotten. The Sticktion of the rubber joints was too great for the space available. My hands look like prize fighters'.

It IS easier from below.

All back together again and FWIW the lower windscreen trim sits behind the sloping windscreen trim at the edges but the channel on the lower windscreen trim may not go far enough along the bottom of the screen unless the little extra flange below the far edges of the screen are eased back a little.

Let's see how long this OEM valve lasts...

Thanks for all the help.

[Doctor Gollum]

Done at least 9 of them including 3? Desmonds, all from above and none by removing the scuttle

You got there in the end though... 

They are a basic Omega item, on the list of common Omega afflictions along with crank sensors, wishbone bushes, lock motors and cam cover leaks... Keep an Omega more than a year or two and you can pretty much guarantee to do everything on that list at least once.

[rds]

Yes, thanks to the help and encouragement.

I agree, I've had at least one each of all those. However it's still a better and easier car to work on than most of the modern stuff so I want to keep it going.

Now, any ideas on this: whilst underneath and running engine to check for leaks, every 10 seconds there was a distinct "chirp". Thought it was a bird at first...but what is it? Seems to come from cat area.

[YZ250]

....
Now, any ideas on this: whilst underneath and running engine to check for leaks, every 10 seconds there was a distinct "chirp". Thought it was a bird at first...but what is it? Seems to come from cat area.

You haven't still got a powersounder fitted by any chance have you. 

[Doctor Gollum]

....
Now, any ideas on this: whilst underneath and running engine to check for leaks, every 10 seconds there was a distinct "chirp". Thought it was a bird at first...but what is it? Seems to come from cat area.

You haven't still got a powersounder fitted by any chance have you. 

That would be a waste of the weekend 

As above, remove it.

[Nick W]

Cheers Nick re bulkhead union advice. I didn't fancy that...

I'll have to see if those pills are on the NHS....

Is there no retro fit better solution for this rotten job? Copper pipe extensions to pick up on new sections of hose to bring the valve further up into engine bay?

pointless for a part that might need to be changed twice in 25 years. Easy 30 minute job if you have a supply of the pills..........

[rds]

The pills are only concentrated stake and kidney pudding anyway and I had plenty. The valve is changed but I still think it can be improved. There was mention of someone in US who has done it so will try to track that down.

Chirp not coming from sounder but from under car.

[henryd]

How big are your hands?

I have honestly never removed a scuttle to replace an HBV. Putting it back on the ground will make everything alot easier to reach...  ....

But it takes 15 mins to remove the scuttle ..... surely that's 15 mins spent well to give you un-hindered access 

No point on the Desmond. On the V6, it takes 30 seconds to unbolt the plenum

If I ever do another hbv I'll remember .... 

I somehow doubt it

[Andy B]

...

I somehow doubt it

So do I 

[rds]

Just to be clear, as the OP, I will do it again if necessary! Longer hose picks will be used though to get round the sticktion that I mentioned.