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[24_Valve]

took the mig for its MOT today and got failed on emissions... the car past the emissioins test at the same garage last year... got 10days to put it right but the question is.. how?

the readings are:

2nd fast idle test:

CO limit 0.3 - actual value 0.51 FAIL

HC limit 200ppm - actual value 145 PASS

Lambda limit 1.03 - actual value 1.05 FAIL

Bosch ESA v 2.35 uk

I also have a centre exhaust leak - don't know if it's relevant?

any idea's welcome 

[Bent valve]

Put some new plugs and a new air filter in and give it a
good screwing down the motorway

[Gaffers]

The leak will throw off the emmissions, guaranteed.

[24_Valve]

Posted by: Bent Valve Today at 20:32
Put some new plugs and a new air filter in and give it a
good screwing down the motorway 

new plugs fitted about 6 months ago, air filter about 2yrs.. ?

[aaronjb]

Exhaust leak will probably make it read lean - which it does (lambda 1.05 is lean of stoic)

And the car is, in fact, running rich (elevated CO & HC)..

Get the exhaust leak fixed, change the air filter, reset the ECU (I'm assuming the Omega stores long & short term fuel trims like most cars), clean the MAF if appropriate, get it nice and warm and take it for a nice long drive, then take it back to the MOT station.

But get the exhaust leak fixed first.

[markfree]

Exhaust leak will probably make it read lean - which it does (lambda 1.05 is lean of stoic)

And the car is, in fact, running rich (elevated CO & HC)..

Get the exhaust leak fixed, change the air filter, reset the ECU (I'm assuming the Omega stores long & short term fuel trims like most cars), clean the MAF if appropriate, get it nice and warm and take it for a nice long drive, then take it back to the MOT station.

But get the exhaust leak fixed first.

If all that fails try a can of cataclean

[Mr Skrunts]

and make sure the shuv the sensor all the way up the exhaust . . . . . . 

[24_Valve]

thanks for the advice - will get leak fixed & replace air filter (reset ecu etc..) and maybe buy some cataclean? does it work better than fuel additives such as redex etc..? also would valve lift treatment help?

[3.2 CHARLIE]

took the mig for its MOT today and got failed on emissions... the car past the emissioins test at the same garage last year... got 10days to put it right but the question is.. how?

the readings are:

2nd fast idle test:

CO limit 0.3 - actual value 0.51 FAIL

HC limit 200ppm - actual value 145 PASS

Lambda limit 1.03 - actual value 1.05 FAIL

Bosch ESA v 2.35 uk

I also have a centre exhaust leak - don't know if it's relevant?

any idea's welcome 

Scrap-time !!! Sorry !!

[aaronjb]

thanks for the advice - will get leak fixed & replace air filter (reset ecu etc..) and maybe buy some cataclean? does it work better than fuel additives such as redex etc..? also would valve lift treatment help?

As I understand it, cataclean and redex are designed for different jobs - one is supposed to 'restore' the CAT, Redex is designed to clean & restore the fuelling system on the car..

Can't hurt to try a can of both, mind!

Valve lifter treatment won't do anything for emissions, though, it's just good for treating sticky (tappy) hydraulic lifters (if you're lucky)

[Marks DTM Calib]

took the mig for its MOT today and got failed on emissions... the car past the emissioins test at the same garage last year... got 10days to put it right but the question is.. how?

the readings are:

2nd fast idle test:

CO limit 0.3 - actual value 0.51 FAIL

HC limit 200ppm - actual value 145 PASS

Lambda limit 1.03 - actual value 1.05 FAIL

Bosch ESA v 2.35 uk

I also have a centre exhaust leak - don't know if it's relevant?

any idea's welcome 

Thats a clue....whats the engine temp and do you have any codes stored

[Road Hog Mad]

Maybe its just time for car heaven.

How many miles has it done?

Surely engines conk out at some point despite being well maintained.

[Marks DTM Calib]

Maybe its just time for car heaven.

How many miles has it done?

Surely engines conk out at some point despite being well maintained.

Lol, useful...........not 

[Road Hog Mad]

Maybe its just time for car heaven.

How many miles has it done?

Surely engines conk out at some point despite being well maintained.

Lol, useful...........not 

[toxic34]

My car passed the emmissions with one of the center exhausts snapped but failed because there was too much escape of the exhaust gases as well as other stuff. Just been stung for 450 notes. 

[markfree]

My car passed the emmissions with one of the center exhausts snapped but failed because there was too much escape of the exhaust gases as well as other stuff. Just been stung for 450 notes. 

Yes mine passed the emissions test even tho' the back box was blowing a wee bit.

[24_Valve]

3.2 CHARLIE Posted Yesterday at 01:40 
Scrap-time !!! Sorry !!

Road Hog Mad Posted Yesterday at 15:10
Maybe its just time for car heaven.

How many miles has it done?

Surely engines conk out at some point despite being well maintained.

yeah right 

road hog mad 107k & btw the engine hasn't conked out. It's in better condition than many '02-'03 mig's... (ask Razzo)

Marks DTM thanks for your reply, the engine temp sits between 92.5 & 97.5c (fans kick in at 98c) but occasionally rises to 100c in heavy traffic, give it a few revs & it drops back down - will paperclip it tomorrow for codes 

[24_Valve]

[size=16]3.2 CHARLIE[/size]
Talking of scrap... Just read the replies to the advert for your mig http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1282179766

[Kneepad]

On the other hand, being an optimist, it's possible they were all phantom faults and were created just to get his posts up to the minimum required to sell what might be a perfectly good car.
Why sell it so soon after buying it?

Quick profit.   :-/

[Kneepad]

Sorry that last post was off topic.
 Not a good idea to go for MOT with a leaky exhaust, that would be my priority if I was you.

[Road Hog Mad]

On the other hand, being an optimist, it's possible they were all phantom faults and were created just to get his posts up to the minimum required to sell what might be a perfectly good car.
Why sell it so soon after buying it?

Quick profit.   :-/

That would take ages lol.

I have a donor car a 2.5 V6 CDX and put an advert in the bits for sale section to which it got removed.

I was only asking for pocket change to fill my pot up for a friend so he could get a new car as this one blew up.

£800 in pot and the target was £1K.

The majority of the car is still left and next week it gets towed away, I even suggested that someone who could, should take off bits and help other forum members with them or maybe even sell them and put the money towards OOF upkeep.

You can't get any better than that, but it was deleted because I am not at the correct post count which seems silly when trying to help others.

The offer is still there (if this isn't deleted) for you to go up and take anything off my friends car for free.

I doubt you'd make a quick profit on an Omega unless you paid £100 for an Elite. Everyone who has got one takes a hit! 

[24_Valve]

well p*s*ed off  had centre exhaust leak repaired, new air filter, got car nice & warm... but failed retest on CO. Lamda & HC are now fine but CO still high... Is there anything else I can do to stop it running rich? Asked halfords about cataclean additive, they laughed and said they'd never heard of it  :-/ please help 

[Dishevelled Den]

Have a look here 24


http://shop.ebay.co.uk/items/__cataclean_W0QQ_dmdZ2?rvr_id=129817544469&crlp=28432201_228459_228460&UA=%3F*I8&GUID=aaa6605812a0a0e2042291c2fffefa3a&keyword=cataclean&MT_ID=504&ff4=228459_228460

[markfree]

well p*s*ed off  had centre exhaust leak repaired, new air filter, got car nice & warm... but failed retest on CO. Lamda & HC are now fine but CO still high... Is there anything else I can do to stop it running rich? Asked halfords about cataclean additive, they laughed and said they'd never heard of it  :-/ please help 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320541991156&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

Bugger - zulu beat me to it

[Kevin Wood]

well p*s*ed off  had centre exhaust leak repaired, new air filter, got car nice & warm... but failed retest on CO. Lamda & HC are now fine but CO still high... Is there anything else I can do to stop it running rich? Asked halfords about cataclean additive, they laughed and said they'd never heard of it  :-/ please help 

Sounds like the mixture is now OK but the cat is not working. Could have been killed by the poor mixture, I suppose.

Cataclean might be worth a try, but you might have more luck from a proper motor factors rather than a purveyor of blue LEDs.

To be honest, some report that it works, others say it makes no odds. Might be worth a try. As would a nice long, fast motorway cruise before the next test.

Kevin

[Kevin Wood]

Hang on, though. If the leak was in the centre section it won't have affected the Lambdas. Can you post the figures from the second emissions test?

Kevin

[24_Valve]

thanks MF & Zulu77 picked some up from Unipart... £15 ish... KW when the MOT station re-tested the car they just returned the original VT30 (fail notice) to me with "CO still too high" noted by hand next to printed failure item. Didn't get the emissions print off for the retest. The guy just suggested redex and a long motorway run... said I might need a new CAT if still doesn't improve. He said CO was twice what it should be... so guessing it should be approx 0.25 then probably about 0.5 again  :-/ I will replace CAT as last resort but added cataclean for now & hoping there will be some improvement. also going to reset ECU 

[Ploppy]

Cataclean worked for me !!!

Brilliant stuff... you may need a couple of bottles ...

Ploppy

[24_Valve]

Put her in today for third MOT emissions test in as many weeks...
Still failed on CO!!!! really p*ss*d off now  The whole car is in perfect condition, no other fail items, no codes... new air filter and used a tin of cataclean before this retest...

Latest data:
 
Natural Idle test:

CO = 0.311 pass (limit=0.500)

Second fast Idle test:

CO = 0.476 fail (limit=0.300)
HC = 104 pass (limit=200ppm)
LAMBDA = 1.025 pass (limit=1.030)

So now I'm thinking... faulty spark plug? how would I know which one? or b*gger*d CAT? how would I know which one?

Can't really use the car 'til it's sorted (swmbo is plod & not a happy bunny!) so I'm down sh*t creek without a paddle 

Can't affort to just replace both CAT's but need to drop the CO  :question I seriously need some advice from a technical OOF'y  :-/

[Kevin Wood]

If you look, the Lambda value is now inside the limits but only just. It's still running a little lean, which might well be why the cat is not working properly.

Can't remember - have we checked for engine ECU fault codes yet?

If the plugs haven't been changed recently might as well chuck a new set in anyway. If one has failed the others won't be far behind it.

I'm more inclined to suspect the mixture is wrong for some reason, assuming there's no noticeable misfire. MAF faulty and fuel trims at their limits? Engine not fully warming up? Lambda sensor failed or heater failed meaning it doesn't wake up during the fast idle test? Air leak into induction system?

A bit of diagnosis to do before changing cats, IMHO.

Kevin

[aaronjb]

Indeed - getting the live data out of the ECU would probably be a big bonus at this point in time (especially if the Tech2 can display the live lambda sensor outputs, Kevin?)

Of course with an expired test, it's now quite hard to get the car to somewhere with a Tech2, I imagine!

[Kevin Wood]

Indeed - getting the live data out of the ECU would probably be a big bonus at this point in time (especially if the Tech2 can display the live lambda sensor outputs, Kevin?)

Of course with an expired test, it's now quite hard to get the car to somewhere with a Tech2, I imagine!

Yes, indeed. You can see the Lambda sensor outputs, MAF output, fuel trim, temperatures, etc. so it would be good to see the live data. Even the engine codes, if any are present, might indicate something such as a fuel trim out of range or a lazy Lambda.

Most MOT garages probably have a reader that can do similar. If only they could interpret what they are being told. Instead, they'll replace the cats, the new ones will probably work for the test but, in time, will get saturated due to the underlying mixture problem and guess what happens next MOT?

Kevin

[aaronjb]

Incidentally I have a Gendan OBD-II laptop based reader that can pull live data off the OBD port; 24_Valve is welcome to borrow it (I'll even post it over - it's useless to me anyhow at the moment as the MR2 has aftermarket standalone engine management with no OBD support) .. but I don't know if it'll work on an Omega - Kevin, do you know?

Can't test it on mine because I know it won't work on a very early Diesel But I don't know about the V6s.

[24_Valve]

Thanks KW, point by point this is what I do & don't know respectively: ECU code 12 only (all clear) but paperclip test only, not full garage diagnostic run... Plugs all changed last 6 months, by me cos don't trust any garage to replace the difficult 246 bank. But don't know if any were faulty when purchased? No obvious misfire but what might be an intermittent misfire? i.e. occassionly there's there's what I can only describe as a jump 1-2 seconds apart when cold start or idling in traffic. MAF is good afaik. No air leaks into induction, spent a day checking ducting & every connection... Lamda heater, no way I can tell but not throwing up a fault code.. hope that might narrow things down 

[24_Valve]

Thanks aaronjb I'll wait to see if KW reckons it'll work on my V6 (my socket is OBD-II me thinks) and might pm you to see if possible to borrow  p.s. very kind offer 

[Kevin Wood]

Unfortunately, only 2.2/2.6/3.2 Omegas are OBDII compliant so I don't believe it'll work on earlier models. :-/

Plugs sound fine, then.

Kevin

[24_Valve]

Q. if i've done something so foolish as replacing an HT lead on the wrong plug (didn't mark them first) is there any way I'd know? if so, without a full strip down is it possible to check that all leads are in the right order, i.e. would wrong order generate a code? thanks, steve

[Kevin Wood]

You'd have a serious misfire and a huge lack of power with HT leads swapped.

Kevin

[24_Valve]

thanks 

[aaronjb]

Unfortunately, only 2.2/2.6/3.2 Omegas are OBDII compliant so I don't believe it'll work on earlier modes

Ahh that's a shame Ah well.. the offer is open to anyone else, naturally

You'd have a serious misfire and a huge lack of power with HT leads swapped.

I once made that mistake on a 1976 Allegro and got the firing order wrong.. nearly soiled myself when it started backfiring! 

[24_Valve]

Are there any OOF'ers that have a tech1 near'ish south east london?? Had a look at TB's Tech2 page and they are all long distance from me  My mig is 1996 so I'm guessing a Tech1 in capable hands might be helpfull... willing to pay £ of course 

[24_Valve]

took the mig to local garage to see if there is any sort of misfire (don't really know if I'd spot it) The mechanic had a good listen at the same time pushing down the throttle until my rev counter was showing 6.5 k  Thought he might kill her but said the engine sounds perfect  went on to say throw in a new set of plugs anyway... (KW on the button again) but shouted out, as he walked off... "don't buy bosch, they're sh*t!"... "make sure you get NGK!" Is this true? if so am I right in thinking the equivalent p/n for NGK plugs is BKR5EK.  The bosch p/n in haynes for pre-facelift is FLR 8 LD+U... all models? any ideas 

[razzo]

Hi Steve got an Opel scanner here if you need readings or live data, not as good as tech 2 but still capable

[24_Valve]

Thanks Razzo, you're a life saver  will pm you to discuss

[24_Valve]

Posted by Kevin Wood on 02. Sep 2010 at 10:35
Yes, indeed. You can see the Lambda sensor outputs, MAF output, fuel trim, temperatures, etc. so it would be good to see the live data. Even the engine codes, if any are present, might indicate something such as a fuel trim out of range or a lazy Lambda.

took the mig to razzo & hooked it up to the Opel scanner... Live data showed all of the above with the following outcome: Live data showed lamda readings (both sides) within limits but at the lower end of the spectrum. Live data also showed overall mixture as Lean. Everything else was absolutely spot on! Can't re-write to the ECU with this scanner but read out seems to show everything (very impressed)

Unfortunately following the scan the mig again failed on CO & Lamda, eventhough lamda was ok on last attempt.

Question is; replace O2 sensors or both Cat's  :question

CO 0.48
Lambda 1.04
HC 128

thanks, steve

[Abiton]

I'm on unfamiliar territory here as I don't have a V6, and I've never had emissions problems, but...

...if overall mixture is lean, and you still have high CO, it must be one/both cats not doing what they should?

Can you not separately probe each bank/cat, by putting a CO probe up one or other exhaust pipe, at some point where they are separate (if that isn't the case all the way through)?  That might tell you whether one bank/cat is worse than t'other.

Might involve disconnecting bits of exhaust to get to a point where you're just looking at one cat at a time, but probably worth it; you don't wanna replace both cats if only one is failing in its duties.  :-/

[24_Valve]

thanks Abiton will definately have a think on it. Can't recall exactly where they join into 1. Guess its just behind the back box, so would need stripping down because it has 2 exhausts/cats ending in one back box/tail pipe. Wish it just had seperate twin exhaust tail pipes, like other motors 

[markfree]

thanks Abiton will definately have a think on it. Can't recall exactly where they join into 1. Guess its just behind the back box, so would need stripping down because it has 2 exhausts/cats ending in one back box/tail pipe. Wish it just had seperate twin exhaust tail pipes, like other motors 

Yes the 2 seperate exhausts join at the back box - you'll need to undo the large jubilee clips which hold the 2 exhausts onto the back box, then seperate the 2 pipes from the back box - easier said than done, cause if you're exhaust  is past it's sell by date you might need an angle grinder or oxy-acet torch to seperate them, then you have the problem of joining them back again :-/