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[cyberfarmer]

June 9, 2015


Hi Guys,

I recently purchased a rear wrecked omega sedan to transplant all its mechanical including engine to my omega estate and while doing so I would like to ask if its possible to simplify the engine by removing the water system, egr system etc since I come from a tropical country and emissions are not strict? Suggestions are most welcome.

I was also about to install an external oil cooler but seems complicated due to the routing of the oil cooler lines. Just to ask, would this be significant to run the engine coolers and to avoid the dreaded oil cooler problem? What modifications would you recommend to make the engine run cooler?

Pix to follow.

Thanks in advance guys.

[deviator]

I believe you can bypass the coolant hoses that go to the throttle body. These are there to warm the air up on a cold day. You could fit an external oil cooler, but I suspect it would be quite expensive once you've piped it, fastened up an oil thermostat and radiator.

You can get a cooler running stat which can take 10 degrees C off your gauge and even radiator switches that cut in earlier, but I have never done the radiator switches.

[cyberfarmer]

Thanks Deviator,

Yeah, I reckon the external oil cooler would be more expensive and timely to do. I'll remove the heater components and plug the heater matrix and see what happens.

[Bojan]

Hi,

there is actually quite a lot that you can discard from the v6 engine bay, depending on what are you willing to give up from.

- EGR - you can blank off at the exhaust header and intake plenum, and remove all the piping. However, the EGR module must stay pluged on (or you can make an emulator) -> otherwise you will have an engine error
- SAI - this is definitely something to get rid of -> remove the pump, pipes and hoses, valve and it's belonging vacuum hose (blank off the connect fitting on brake-servo hose). Also, remove the metal SAI pipes that go into the exhaust headers and blank off the holes (or get a pair of 2.6/3.2 headers)
- Aircon - you have to decide if you can live without it - remove compresor, pipes, aircon radiator and two fans (in front of aircon rad), fit a short aux-belt (I think it's 6PK1900).
- cabin heating - if you are in a hot climate, you could live without this,too - remove the HBV, auxiliary water pump (electric), all the pipes that go from the engine to the heater -> basically, you short cirrcuit the water flow from the engine heads (from the coolant bridge at the rear of the V) to the coolant main pipe (just bellow that)

Don't bother with external oil cooler, it's too complicated.
I have done the following to keep the engine as cool as possible -> fit new unused coolant radiator and new coolant thermostat. Wash the radiator with de-greasing solution (like dimer) and mini-wash several times a year. Additionally, I don't have the aircon (so, no aircon rad and fans, which are an airflow obstruction). The result is that engine temp is almost always below the 95°C, even in mid-summer.


Also, while your engine is outside, it would be very wise to do the following:
- Remove exhaust headers, get them plained, fit new exhaust header gaskets (make sure you have 3-layer metal ones  - GM original or Victor Reinz, don't use Erling single layer) and new studs
- Fit new valve cover gaskets – this is much easier to do with engine out of the car – you need new gaskets, O-rings (again, use original GM, or Victor Reniz set) and a sealant
- clean the crankcase breather system (pipes, 'box' at the back of the engine and top 'ecotec' plastic part)

[cyberfarmer]

Hi Bojan,

Thank you for the information.

1. EGR - I'll block it off and also plug the manifold

2. SAI - Its definite that Ill remove them. Can you share the main components location?

3. Cabin Heating - Definitely its always sunny here! The reason to retain the aircon system

By the back end, Top circle can I remove this? Bottom circle where it is held by the large bolt, can I remove all the hoses and plug it, I believe that a sensor is held here. I would just like to have a simple radiator upper and lower hose to the engine.



By the radiator, can I plug off the radiator holes so I can remove the motor and the long hose?



Underneath the reservoir



I already bought an original oil cooler rather than installing an external oil cooler.

Thank you very much.

[cyberfarmer]

Hi to all,

Just a thought, can I relocate the coolant temp sender to the metal pipe (intake coolant) if I consider removing the coolant bridge manifold at the back end (replacing the banjo bolts with bolts only)?

Would this have problems with the temp reading?

This is in consideration of easier access to the sending unit on the future.

Thanks again.

[05omegav6]

That would remove the self bleeding ability of the Cooling system, resulting in airlocks and their consequences

Why break summat which works perfectly by design?

[cyberfarmer]

Thanks it was just a thought while removing the Auxillary water system.

[Viral_Jim]

Possible point to consider if you're removing the heating system:

The heater matrix will contain a volume of coolant, as will the pipes going to the throttle body (someone also mentioned bypassing those). So you are reducing the volume of coolant in your system whilst expecting it to do the same level of work. I don't know what percentage of the coolant capacity would be reduced by but this could give you overheating issues - especially as you live in a hot climate.

I could be wrong on this - someone more knowledgeable than I will be able to comment - maybe consider fitting a bigger header tank to compensate?

[cyberfarmer]

Hi Jimmy944,

Yes im still on that issue of coolant volume as this engine really gets hot. Ive done the bypass but on a diesel landy with no issues. Well lets see. Hoping to find info on this.
 
Cheers

[Bojan]

1. EGR - just make sure to leave the EGR valve connected
2. SAI - pump is withing front bumer, on the left side (horns are bolted on it), then there is a hose that goes to a valve and distributor (located at the back side of the cooland radiator, behind the fans) followed by metal pipes that ggo towards exhaust headers - this all takes a bit of space and can be removed without any problems - valve is bolted onto the radiator fan housing, it has a connector on it (which can be unpluged) and vacuum hose coming from brake servo tube (this hose can be removed to, but must blank of hole on servo tube)

Image 1 - top circle is a HBV valve - if removing cabin heater, this can go
            - bottom circle - coolant bridge - leave it as it is - the central pipe (one coming out from the coolant bridge goes towards the HBV) needs to be connected directly into a coolant metal pipe

Image 2 - I think that this pupm is here to 'improve' circulation within the radiator
Image 3 - auxiliary coolant pump

Also, I see that mayority of your cable protection tapes (black fabric tapes) are gone - while your engine bay is in pieces, it would be good to renew them. This tapes are usually possible to buy in electric/electronical supply stores.

Regarding the fact that the quantity of the coolant will be smaller when the heater matrix and connecting pipework is removed -> this will not be a problem, as there is no waterflow trough the heater matrix when outside temperatures are high (because the heating is off), so, that quantity of coolant is not participating in the flow.

[Kevin Wood]

Bear in mind that the heater circuit is what causes the cooing system to self-bleed, as said. It also acts as a bypass flow when the thermostat is shut, allowing the circulation of coolant to avoid hot spots.

About the only thing I'd recommend is to remove the HBV and connect the outlet from the coolant bridge directly to the heater matrix return on the coolant transfer pipe that runs to the bottom radiator hose. You've then eliminated the HBV and heater matrix, which are 2 items that can leak.

TBH, though, might as well leave it alone.

Ditto the EGR. No harm in it being installed, and removing it gives you no advantages. The valve still has to be plugged in so why have it dangling loose instead of bolted to the plenum?

SAI system IS worth ditching, IMHO. A well documented mod here.

[Bojan]

regarding the heater matrix removal -> see image on a link:
http://www.partsbase.org/opel/omega-b-1994-2003-6--7-13-1-hoses-and-pipes-contd-x25xe-l80-y26se-ly9-x30xe-l81-y32se-la3-engines/

You must repace hose '3' (or try to use it) and connect from a coolant bridge to a nozzle at the back of the pipe '14'.

[Kevin Wood]

regarding the heater matrix removal -> see image on a link:
http://www.partsbase.org/opel/omega-b-1994-2003-6--7-13-1-hoses-and-pipes-contd-x25xe-l80-y26se-ly9-x30xe-l81-y32se-la3-engines/

You must repace hose '3' (or try to use it) and connect from a coolant bridge to a nozzle at the back of the

pipe '14'

.

Yep, that's what I referred to as the coolant transfer pipe.

[cyberfarmer]

Hi Kevin and Bojan,

I just finished with the repairs and done the following:

1. EGR -
a. Blocked of the EGR and plugged it
b. Plugged the metal pipes on both sides
c. Removed all EGR components

2. SAI - removed everything

3. Auxillary Water/Heater -
a. Heater Matrix - I basically isolated by removing the HBV and the pump underneath the reservoir tank and plugged the heater matrix. There is a vacuum line should I plug it too?
b. Coolant Bridge - Connected the middle big pipe to the coolant transfer pipe at the back end of the engine while the small pipe went to the throttle body
c. Reservoir - Connected the bottom hose to the coolant transfer pipe and the upper hose to the throttle body while the other hose is from the radiator
d. Radiator - Kept the pump and hose to work

OBSERVATIONS - after running on idle (no coolant just water) with intermittent revs for 3 hours, my temp was maximum 90 degrees. Ill do a run tomorrow to further test it. Also, a puff of white smoke when revd hard but goes away.

3. Vacuum lines - Where can I get a diagram for the vacuum lines? I'm missing the vacuum line of the intake servo.

Thank you

[Diamond Black Geezer]

http://oldsite.omegaowners.com//forum/YaBB.pl?num=1152565204 

[cyberfarmer]

Thanks for the diagram. It seems that I would just block off all vac lines going to the Heater Matrix and just loop the vacuum from the brake servo towards the multi ram system.

Cheers

[Bojan]

How's progress on this?

[cyberfarmer]

Hi to all,

After a few runs and tests on the Omega sedan engine, I am finally satisfied to transplant the engine and all working components to my Omega Estate.





I have already removed the engine and transmission and ready for cleaning,



Some minor body work needed with the Estate:





Ill post some pictures later

Cheers

[cyberfarmer]

Any suggestions while I'm at it?

[Bojan]

Engine, while out of vehicle:
- exhaust headers gaskets - this is a must (they are a PIA to change with engine in vehicle)
- gaskets and seal rings - if possible (as earlier in posts)
- timing belt kit - if possible (althoug this is not hard to do with engine in vehicle)
- alternator - repleace bearing and collector bridge (if possible)

Vehicle (estate):
- wash and clean engine bay
- are you using an automatic gearbox? If not, loose those gearbox cooling lines
- consider relocating your battery into the trunk
- renew two 'earth' lines (thick light brown qires, one from battery to chassis, other from battery to engine, just below PAS pump) and clean joint points (where the wire is bolted to chassis) with fine sanding paper
- remove all the wiring that will not be used any more

[cyberfarmer]

Hi Bojan,

1. Engine
a. Gaskets - already replaced the exhaust header gaskets, rocker cover gaskets and other seal rings.
b. Timing Belt - already replaced including tensioners
c. Alternator - collector bridge?

2. Vehicle
a. Doing the preparation for engine transplant
b. Ordered engine support - $90 usd each
c. I'm using stock 4L30-e as there are no alternatives available only an auto tranny from an E39 and E23 Bmws
d. How to relocate battery? Ill be parting out an Bmw E39, maybe I can use the parts.
e. Renewing earth contacts

3. Wheels - I was told that 5x112 Mercedes Benz PCD can fit on the 5x110 Opels, is this ok as there are no available aftermarket wheels with 5x110 pcds unless I make use of wheel hub adapters?

Thank you very much

[cyberfarmer]

Headliner just newly re-upholstered fabric, same as OEM

[Bojan]

c. Alternator - collector bridge? -> the part with diodes

d. How to relocate battery? Ill be parting out an Bmw E39, maybe I can use the parts. -> search the internet for DIY battery relocation. I think E39 has battery in trunk, so you can use it's 'box'.

[cyberfarmer]

Already installed the engine and all parts from the running Omega sedan but now:

does not idle - shuts down unless you increase the throttle to sustain the engine running.

what can it be?

[cyberfarmer]

Using Autoland Iscan II
Codes are:
ENGINE
1. P004A - MASS AIRFLOW SENSOR VOLTAGE HIGH
2. P0087 - CHECK LIGHT VOLTAGE LOW
3. P0013 - INCORRECT RPM SIGNAL
4. P0015 - THROTTLE POSITION SENSOR VOLTAGE HIGH
5. P0039 - IDLE CONTROL VALVE VOLTAGE LOW OR AIR CONTROL SOLENOID VOLTAGE HIGH OR PRE THROTTLE CURRENT LOW

[Kevin Wood]

I recall something about the throttle position sensor wiring being different between some 2.5s. Are you using ECU, loom and TPS from one donor or have you mixed these?

[cyberfarmer]

Hi Kevin,

ECU - from donor car (Sedan)
TPS and other sensors - from donor car didn't touch them as it was running fine
MAF - interchanging but no effect

LOOM - from recipient car (Wagon)

Kept resetting the errors but still persistent with all 5 Errors

Thank you

[cyberfarmer]

DATA STREAM:
1. BATTERY VOLTAGE                                        13.6 V
2. TPS SIGNAL                                                 0.86 V
3. SIMULATED IDLE POSITION SWITCH                 INACTIVE
4. SIMULATED FULL POSITION SWITCH                 INACTIVE
5. INTAKE AIR TEMPERATURE                              33 c
6. INTAKE AIR TEMPERATURE                              2.93 V
7. COOLANT TEMPERATURE                                 87 c
8. COOLANT TEMPERATURE                                 1.05 V
9. MASS AIR FLOW SENSOR                                519 KG/H
10. MASS AIR FLOW SENSOR                               4.8 V
11. KNOCK SIGNAL                                            INACTIVE
12. IGNITION/INJECTION CUTOFF                         INACTIVE
13. HALL SENSOR                                              INACTIVE
14. VEHICLE SPEED                                            0 KMH
15. VEHICLE SPEED PULSE                                   RECEIVED
16. A/C INFORMATION SWITCH                            INACTIVE 0 V (NOT INSTALLED)
17. A/C COMPRESSOR SWITCH                             INACTIVE 0 V (NOT INSTALLED)
18. P/N SWITCH                                                P-N 0V
19. TORQUE CONTROL                                        INACTIVE
20. IGNITION COIL CYLINDER 1+4                        LOAD
21. IGNITION COIL CYLINDER 2+5                        LOAD
22. IGNITION COIL CYLINDER 3+6                        LOAD
23. ENGINE LOAD SIGNAL                                   0.8 ms
24. TPS LOAD SIGNAL                                        10%
25. FUEL PUMP RELAY                                         ACTIVE 0 V
26. A/C CUTOFF RELAY                                        INACTIVE 12 V
27. FUEL TANK VENTILATION                               0 V
28. SECONDARY AIR PUMP RELAY                         INACTIVE 12 V (NOT INSTALLED)
29. INTAKE MANIFOLD VALVE 1                            INACTIVE 12 V
30. INTAKE MANIFOLD VALVE 2                            INACTIVE 12 V
31. EGR SOLENOID                                             INACTIVE (NOT INSTALLED)
32. EGR PULSE RATIO                                         0 V (NOT INSTALLED)
33. EGR POSITION FEEDBACK                               1 V (NOT INSTALLED)
34. ENGINE TYPE                                               6 CYLINDER
35. TRANSMISSION CODING                                MT
36. ENGINE SPEED PULSE                                    INACTIVE
37. DESIRED IDLE                                              1600 RPM
38. ENGINE SPEED                                             1960 RPM (THROTTLE ON HOLD TO KEEP ENGINE RUNNING)
39. DESIRED AIR IDLE                                         17 KG/H
40. ACTUAL AIR IDLE                                           22 KG/H
41. IDLE AIR CONTROL                                        137 STEPS
42. IAC ADAPTER SLOPE                                      145 STEPS
43. IAC INTEGRATOR                                           128 STEPS
44. IAC BLOCK LEARN                                          128 STEPS
45. O2 SENSOR LOOP 1                                        CLOSED
46. O2 SENSOR LOOP 2                                        CLOSED
47. O2 SENSOR 1                                                78 mV
48. O2 SENSOR 2                                                98 mV
49. AIR FUEL RATIO 1                                           LEAN
50. AIR FUEL RATIO 2                                           LEAN
51. 02 INTEGRATOR 1                                          154 STEPS
52. 02 INTEGRATOR 2                                          154 STEPS
53. BLM IDLE 1                                                   128 STEPS
54. BLM IDLE 2                                                   128 STEPS
55. BLM PART 1                                                  128 STEPS
56. BLM PART 2                                                  128 STEPS
57. SPARK ADVANCE                                            31 cA
58. KNOCK RETARD                                               0 cA
59. INJECTION PULSE                                             3 ms
60. CHECK LIGHT                                                 ON 0 V
61. DIAGNOSTIC REQUEST                                    INACTIVE 5 V
62. TRACTION CONTROL                                       PRESENT
63. IMMOBILIZER                                                ACTIVE
64. IMMOBILIZER SIGNAL                                     RECEIVED

[Kevin Wood]

Does the idle position simulated switch activate when the throttle is released and the full throttle activate on full throttle?

Also, does the TPS load signal accurately follow the throttle position?

Were both engines fitted with the same type of plenum?

I think the TPS wiring was different between looms, as we've seen similar problems in the past where 3.0s have been swapped into 2.5 cars or long plenums fitted to 2.5s. You have the loom from a different car to the engine, reading this. If you have the other loom, it'd be worth trying that. Failing that, swap the plenum + throttle body and try that.

[cyberfarmer]

Does the idle position simulated switch activate when the throttle is released and the full throttle activate on full throttle? - YES

Also, does the TPS load signal accurately follow the throttle position? - YES

Were both engines fitted with the same type of plenum? - NO CHANGE ORIGINAL WITH ENGINE

I think the TPS wiring was different between looms, as we've seen similar problems in the past where 3.0s have been swapped into 2.5 cars or long plenums fitted to 2.5s. You have the loom from a different car to the engine, reading this. If you have the other loom, it'd be worth trying that. Failing that, swap the plenum + throttle body and try that. - WILL TRY TO EXCHANGE LOOMS

[cyberfarmer]

The looms are all the same as both cars are identical except their body shape.

It seems that the engine is lacking air when on idle. Its just strange since before dismantling the engine from the sedan, all worked fine.

I also swapped ECUs but again has the same error reading which cannot be cleared:

1. P004A - MASS AIRFLOW SENSOR VOLTAGE HIGH
2. P0087 - CHECK LIGHT VOLTAGE LOW
3. P0013 - INCORRECT RPM SIGNAL
4. P0015 - THROTTLE POSITION SENSOR VOLTAGE HIGH
5. P0039 - IDLE CONTROL VALVE VOLTAGE LOW OR AIR CONTROL SOLENOID VOLTAGE HIGH OR PRE THROTTLE CURRENT LOW
6. MASS AIRFLOW SENSOR VOLTAGE LOW - New One

Can I check the airflow meter if its defective or not?

Thanks again

[cyberfarmer]

Alleluia, the wagon idled and started after removing the MAF plug.

Is it to conclude that the MAF is defective now? How to test?

I also scanned and the errors are still persistent, though I know that MAF error will still be positive, but are the other error inter related?

[Bojan]

You have unpluged the MAF?
Now it idles OK, but EML is still on?
Have you tried swaping the MAFs (caravan <-> sedan)?

[cyberfarmer]

Hi Bojan,

CEL is still ON and little rough idling. Yes I have tried exchanging but still the same. Ill try cleaning the sensors tomorrow and see what happens. Is there a way to check them?

Cheers

[Bojan]

If it's all the same with either MAF, then the connector plug or wiring to it might be faulty. Check them first.

[cyberfarmer]

Yes will check the plugs. Are there values to be checked with a multimeter with the MAF plug?

Heres the wagon now

[cyberfarmer]

Gentlemen,

A. Cutting out and MAF error issue:

I must say that I'm the happiest man alive!

I found the culprit - 1 of 4 wires of the MAF wiring loom was cut!

MIL lights off and NO errors!

Thanks guys!


B. Idling:

Idling is quite rough (could feel the little tremble inside the car) and as I increase the rpm - thoughts?

RPM is 600 at idle should I adjust the screw on the throttle body to increase it?


Thanks again guys

[Bojan]

A - great that you've solved the problem.

B - can you try to explain in what way it idles rough? Also, how it works when you give some throttle (on 1000rpm or so)?
600rpm is OK for idle. You can't adjust idle speed on that wcrew.

[cyberfarmer]

at idle start 600 rpm:
engine quite rough you can feel the vibration inside the car. engine moves left and right.

at idle on 1000 rpm:
still feel the vibration

at idle on 1500 rpm:
vibration lessens

at idle 2000 rpm:
no vibration

*no hesitation when increasing rpm
*no sudden drop of rpm when accelerator is released
*spark plugs are dry - though I might have the wrong ones, what is the standard?
*new rocker cover gaskets

[Bojan]

Check for air leaks - vacuum lines, all parts between MAF and engine (both tubing and intake plenum assembly->there is a number of gaskets here), breather pipes and 'ECOTEC' black plastic on top of the plenum (there are several small O-rings that might broke during dissassembly-assembly).
Basically, check in detail every (even the smallest) component that is connected on intake - if there is an even small crack, or a seal that doesn't seal 100% it will run bad.
You know the drill -> use a break-cleaner spray, start spraying the engine (part by part), and listen if there is a change in engine note.

Spark plugs:
I usually use NGK BKR5EK IIRC (single fin) - it works fine with them.
Also, once I've used BOSCH (don't know the code, but it was single fin, too, and it was OK, too).
Last year I've used BOSCH with two fins -> the engine was not running as smooth as it should (a bit lounder, mettalic sound, and a bit rougher running) -> changed to NGK signe fin, and it immidiatelly run perfect.
All in all, single fin spark to be used.

[Kevin Wood]

Don't adjust the screw on the throttle body. This isn't an idle speed adjustment, it's just to ensure the throttle plate doesn't jam in the bore. 600 RPM is the correct idle speed, and it's regulated by the ICV.

[Diamond Black Geezer]

Seconded, never touch that screw!

I've a slightly rough idle, it's an air leak. They can be a bugger to find, but find it you must 


To be honest, be amazed if you swapped an X25XE and didn't have a rough idle, they're very sensitive to the leaks of le air.

[cyberfarmer]

Thanks for the list of advise. Did the carb cleaner method and found that some seals were worn out. Redone the seals and some hoses and now idle has improved.

[cyberfarmer]

Omega now is undergoing body restoration



Did some surgery on the bottom door sills due to rust







Replaced Drivers Door from the donor sedan



Repaired battery tray



Once everything done will head out for paint restoration.

[cyberfarmer]

Hi guys

Would you know where to order windscreen and back glass weather strips that can ship overseas? No source here in the Philippines.

Thank you again.

Just an update:
Paint prep

[cyberfarmer]

some updates:

[Bojan]

Looking good.
I see you are going to have several coats.

Didn't know omegas were sold in far east.

[madaxgt]

I didn't know you got them over there either! I guess its an opel not a Vauxhall?

You might be able to help me with my question if you have your engine out of the car still.?
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=131664.0

[cyberfarmer]

Yes it was sold here with the complete line unfortunately it was short lived as the distributor didnt have good after sales service until it closed down. They even rebadged it to chevrolets with the last batch. Pitty they are good cars but when the dealers closed they all became homeless making it as cheap as chips.