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[anV6]

I was given the suggestion of going fully bespoke a few times here, in order to get to the car I want.

Well, today I stumbled on something that might be a good opportunity for that.

It's a low mileage 2003 3.2 Omega. But it's missing both the engine and gearbox. Besides that it's supposed to be complete.

I think I could get it for an interesting price.

But would it be a headache to fit a 3.0 with a R28 manual box in it? Something is telling me it won't be a straight job with all the electronics that probably interact with everything.

And while we are at it, and this is most likely out of curiosity, but it is an empty engine bay after all, would I be limited to the Omega range of engines and gearboxes if I want anything half way simple to install? Or would other GM options with more power be sensible?

[serek]

I was given the suggestion of going fully bespoke a few times here, in order to get to the car I want.

Well, today I stumbled on something that might be a good opportunity for that.

It's a low mileage 2003 3.2 Omega. But it's missing both the engine and gearbox. Besides that it's supposed to be complete.

I think I could get it for an interesting price.

But would it be a headache to fit a 3.0 with a R28 manual box in it? Something is telling me it won't be a straight job with all the electronics that probably interact with everything.

And while we are at it, and this is most likely out of curiosity, but it is an empty engine bay after all, would I be limited to the Omega range of engines and gearboxes if I want anything half way simple to install? Or would other GM options with more power be sensible?

Stick b234 in it R28 will bolt straight  on

[X30XE]

Just make sure you clean the sludge out of the bottom end first and unblock the oil pick up pipe.  Or else this happens... on christmas day... in the middle of nowhere... 

[serek]

Think this is B207 engine in 9-5

[X30XE]

Think this is B207 engine in 9-5

I think all the older variants utilise the same type of oil pick up system and are eqaully susceptible to oil starvation?   

[Fraggles Rock]

Read through a 15 page thread on a B234R conversion on MIGweb... various oil issues, partly due to mounting the engine vertically and partly from custom sump... not a straight forward swap either, although the chap doing it did seem to make it awkward by trying to stuff a Monza diff into an Omega casing, along with a Jag gearbox... whole car was basically built from scratch, and ended up being scrapped...

If it's the same Serek, he knows the thread as he posted on it

To anv6, if you want a 3.0 manual, then this is chance to get best of both worlds... find a scruffy post '98 3.0 manual, and pull the engine, box and clutch from it. Then fit 2.6/3.2 manifolds, 3.0 cats, replace all the sensors with the 3.2 items, and fit the loom from a 2.6 manual along with the coil packs, and plug this into the 3.2 ecu. Job jobbed. This assumes that the ecu is still with the car... otherwise you'll need the ecu, immobiliser ring and key chips too...

End result would see the engine and box you want in a newer Omega. Reading through... this was pretty much what you were told when you first asked...

[X30XE]

Saucer of milk for Raggle Frog 

[Fraggles Rock]

Well...

On a separate note, what was it that let go on your Saab? Fatal or simply irritating?

[X30XE]

As yet unconfirmed. 110mph... clonk... stall.. metal noises... lots and lots of smoke... hot oil on exhaust...all oil escaped..  Was whining on cold start previously (i assumed some sort of SAI fault like omega) but apparently that's the sound of a staining oil pump on these. So i'm guessing it starved the turbo/engine of oil and the rest is history.   If it ever stops frigging raining I might be able to carry out a post mortem. 

[Fraggles Rock]

As yet unconfirmed. 110mph... clonk... stall.. metal noises... lots and lots of smoke... hot oil on exhaust...all oil escaped..  Was whining on cold start previously (i assumed some sort of SAI fault like omega) but apparently that's the sound of a staining oil pump on these. So i'm guessing it starved the turbo/engine of oil and the rest is history.   If it ever stops frigging raining I might be able to carry out a post mortem. 

Ouch...

I can see why people like them for conversions, massive power potential, but oil starvation seems to be a bit of an Achilles heel

[serek]

Read through a 15 page thread on a B234R conversion on MIGweb... various oil issues, partly due to mounting the engine vertically and partly from custom sump... not a straight forward swap either, although the chap doing it did seem to make it awkward by trying to stuff a Monza diff into an Omega casing, along with a Jag gearbox... whole car was basically built from scratch, and ended up being scrapped...

If it's the same Serek, he knows the thread as he posted on it

To anv6, if you want a 3.0 manual, then this is chance to get best of both worlds... find a scruffy post '98 3.0 manual, and pull the engine, box and clutch from it. Then fit 2.6/3.2 manifolds, 3.0 cats, replace all the sensors with the 3.2 items, and fit the loom from a 2.6 manual along with the coil packs, and plug this into the 3.2 ecu. Job jobbed. This assumes that the ecu is still with the car... otherwise you'll need the ecu, immobiliser ring and key chips too...

End result would see the engine and box you want in a newer Omega. Reading through... this was pretty much what you were told when you first asked...

RWD conversion with saab engine are ok till you start using car Hard ( track days) that when oil issue come, so thats way peoply try different sump options
imho most time its down to engine worn witch need repair and bring back to right standard 

[Viral_Jim]

Ouch...

I can see why people like them for conversions, massive power potential, but oil starvation seems to be a bit of an Achilles heel

As with all things related to cars and the internet, there's a lot of conflicting information on the oil starvation issues on 9-5 2.3 lumps. Perhaps the below explanation may help:

The issues arise because the pipes in the crankcase ventilation system are Poundland rejects supplied by GM to Saab. Under the heat of the 2.3 lump, these pipes break down from the inside. This drops bits of rubber and congealed oil into the sump which blocks the strainer in the oils pickup and causes starvation. The noise X030XE describes is known on Saab forums as the "death whine" and is the final stage of the process before total failure of other components due to oil starvation.

The ways to cure this are to drop the sump, clean it out, fit the latest iteration of the ventilation kit (about £120) then run the car for ever on fully synth oil. It's a serious issue that affects all 2.3 saabs, arrow are least susceptible as the should have always been run on fully synth. Semi synth increases the rate of decay. Alternatively, buy a post 2004 example which will have the updated kit fitted and the issue doesn't arise (except where incorrect oil is used).

The good news is that once the sump is cleaned and the new Pcv kit is fitted, the issue should never resurface. Unfortunately, if the issue progresses to its conclusion, usually a new engine is the remedy.

[X30XE]

Oh bugger    Now you tell me 

[Viral_Jim]

Sorry X30XE, i realise my last post came across as being wise after the event (aka being a d!ck  ). That wasn't my intention at all. I just wanted to provide some background so as to try and ensure that people aren't put off the engine without knowing the reality of its issues.

If you do need a new block, or any Saab specific advice, UKSaabs forum is a real font of knowledge and helped me with all 3 of my 9-5's over the years I've had them.

[X30XE]

   

Yes, hindsight is very illuminating.  Having only bought the thing in the week before christmas and being working everyday I didn't have time to familiarise myself with it's foibles before it gave in to a lack of mechanical sympathy.  Given that the previous muppet owner had had "his muppet mate at t-yota" change the gearbox fluid a year ago, and judging by the reciept put Dex III in it instead of 3309 like he should I was half expecting the gearbox to leave me stranded in no-mans land.  The only surprise I got therefore was the failure mode it went for on the day 

[Doctor Gollum]

That's the trouble, often you have no idea what has/hasn't been done previously... at least the overall state of a prospective vehicle gives you a clue, but if it's just the engine you buy you really are in the lap of the Gods

On a plus note, at least you were expecting it to fail at some point

[X30XE]

I was pondering this yesterday.  The only true advantage of having a brand new car is that you, (have the opportunity to at least), know what has and has not been done to it at a very early point in it's life.  Buying new guarantees you nothing else mind. 

[Viral_Jim]

I was pondering this yesterday.  The only true advantage of having a brand new car is that you, (have the opportunity to at least), know what has and has not been done to it at a very early point in it's life.  Buying new guarantees you nothing else mind.

Now let's be fair, of course it does. It also guarantees you losing a boat load of cash on your purchase 

[X30XE]

  Unless it's a Porsche Macan/Ferrari/Aston... 

[anV6]

I was given the suggestion of going fully bespoke a few times here, in order to get to the car I want.

Well, today I stumbled on something that might be a good opportunity for that.

It's a low mileage 2003 3.2 Omega. But it's missing both the engine and gearbox. Besides that it's supposed to be complete.

I think I could get it for an interesting price.

But would it be a headache to fit a 3.0 with a R28 manual box in it? Something is telling me it won't be a straight job with all the electronics that probably interact with everything.

And while we are at it, and this is most likely out of curiosity, but it is an empty engine bay after all, would I be limited to the Omega range of engines and gearboxes if I want anything half way simple to install? Or would other GM options with more power be sensible?

Stick b234 in it R28 will bolt straight  on

I want 6 cylinders as I'm not interested in turbos and the like. 

But I'm mainly interested in dropping the original Opel V6 3.0 in and wanting to know if it will be troublesome.

Only if there was another much more powerful engine that would be easily dropped in, would I entertain going for something other than the Opel V6 3.0 and going through the hoops to legalize the swap here. Lots of bureaucracy and work involved.

This is why I asked. To see if there is anything out there that would make it worthwhile. Since the engine bay is already empty might as well consider it. I had been suggested getting a 2.5 diesel and swapping for a more powerful BMW diesel of the same series. But I want  petrol and this car is not the diesel anyway.

[Mr Gav]

I was given the suggestion of going fully bespoke a few times here, in order to get to the car I want.

Well, today I stumbled on something that might be a good opportunity for that.

It's a low mileage 2003 3.2 Omega. But it's missing both the engine and gearbox. Besides that it's supposed to be complete.

I think I could get it for an interesting price.

But would it be a headache to fit a 3.0 with a R28 manual box in it? Something is telling me it won't be a straight job with all the electronics that probably interact with everything.

And while we are at it, and this is most likely out of curiosity, but it is an empty engine bay after all, would I be limited to the Omega range of engines and gearboxes if I want anything half way simple to install? Or would other GM options with more power be sensible?

Stick b234 in it R28 will bolt straight  on

I want 6 cylinders as I'm not interested in turbos and the like. 

But I'm mainly interested in dropping the original Opel V6 3.0 in and wanting to know if it will be troublesome.

Only if there was another much more powerful engine that would be easily dropped in, would I entertain going for something other than the Opel V6 3.0 and going through the hoops to legalize the swap here. Lots of bureaucracy and work involved.

This is why I asked. To see if there is anything out there that would make it worthwhile. Since the engine bay is already empty might as well consider it. I had been suggested getting a 2.5 diesel and swapping for a more powerful BMW diesel of the same series. But I want  petrol and this car is not the diesel anyway.

Have a look HERE, though it does have a turbo but also has six cylinders 

[anV6]

I was given the suggestion of going fully bespoke a few times here, in order to get to the car I want.

Well, today I stumbled on something that might be a good opportunity for that.

It's a low mileage 2003 3.2 Omega. But it's missing both the engine and gearbox. Besides that it's supposed to be complete.

I think I could get it for an interesting price.

But would it be a headache to fit a 3.0 with a R28 manual box in it? Something is telling me it won't be a straight job with all the electronics that probably interact with everything.

And while we are at it, and this is most likely out of curiosity, but it is an empty engine bay after all, would I be limited to the Omega range of engines and gearboxes if I want anything half way simple to install? Or would other GM options with more power be sensible?

Stick b234 in it R28 will bolt straight  on

I want 6 cylinders as I'm not interested in turbos and the like. 

But I'm mainly interested in dropping the original Opel V6 3.0 in and wanting to know if it will be troublesome.

Only if there was another much more powerful engine that would be easily dropped in, would I entertain going for something other than the Opel V6 3.0 and going through the hoops to legalize the swap here. Lots of bureaucracy and work involved.

This is why I asked. To see if there is anything out there that would make it worthwhile. Since the engine bay is already empty might as well consider it. I had been suggested getting a 2.5 diesel and swapping for a more powerful BMW diesel of the same series. But I want  petrol and this car is not the diesel anyway.

Have a look HERE, though it does have a turbo but also has six cylinders 

Thanks. I will check it out.

[Fraggles Rock]

That shell is begging for the LC lump to be dropped in... that or an Irmscher 4.0

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

Will a Lexus V8 fit ?  Cheap as chips and capable of huge power output. 

[Doctor Gollum]

Will a Lexus V8 fit ?  Cheap as chips and capable of huge power output. 

It will, but doesn't exactly drop straight in... ££££

RATS Omega uses this lump iirc

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

Sammy sledge and plasma cutter should suffice I would have thought. 
I believe Rats Omega,s Lexus V8 produced something like 1000bhp.

[anV6]

I took a look at the link. It seems like a complicated operation and also not really cheap. Same with a Lexus V8. At this point, wouldn't it be better to just buy a HSV? It seems to me you would spend basically as much and the Chevy V8s are also infinitely tunable if you are not happy with the stock 400bhp.

[Mr Gav]

I took a look at the link. It seems like a complicated operation and also not really cheap. Same with a Lexus V8. At this point, wouldn't it be better to just buy a HSV? It seems to me you would spend basically as much and the Chevy V8s are also infinitely tunable if you are not happy with the stock 400bhp.

I never said it was easy...just another option for a six cylinder conversion but probably a lot less of a headache than a V8 

[anV6]

That shell is begging for the LC lump to be dropped in... that or an Irmscher 4.0

Problem is finding any of those engines, and if you do, they will cost a lot. 

[anV6]

Will a Lexus V8 fit ?  Cheap as chips and capable of huge power output. 

I think the engine cost is not the problem. The work and cost for fitting it in an Omega, if possible, is what I think would make it prohibitive. Unless what you want is an Omega V8 and no other V8.

Because probably for the money you can buy some other RWD V8  4 door saloons out there.

[anV6]

I took a look at the link. It seems like a complicated operation and also not really cheap. Same with a Lexus V8. At this point, wouldn't it be better to just buy a HSV? It seems to me you would spend basically as much and the Chevy V8s are also infinitely tunable if you are not happy with the stock 400bhp.

I never said it was easy...just another option for a six cylinder conversion but probably a lot less of a headache than a V8 

Sure. And thanks for pointing the thread out to me. It was still a good read. 

A V8 is definitely more work and money than it is worth. Just buy a HSV R8 or GTS of same vintage and be done with it.

A 6 cylinder is way more viable, yes. But that particular Supra engine seems quite complex to do. A Carlton straight 6 would probably be easier I would think. But not nearly as much tuning flexibility.

[X30XE]

Well...

On a separate note, what was it that let go on your Saab? Fatal or simply irritating?

Having finally had time to get this on the ramps today I can confirm that there is a 6" diameter "ventilation aperture" smashed in the middle of the sump.  So yeah. Completely and utterly fnarked.   

On the plus side the touchscreen satnav/radio has decided it now wants to work. 

[BazaJT]

Sweet so now you can set the satnav to direct you to places you can't actually drive to