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[cem_devecioglu]

Anybody else hear Obama say " we can beat you in a conventional war"!! Not quite what I wanted to hear him say.

No country comes close to the US in terms of quantity and quality of conventional weapons, equipment, logistics and battlefield data sharing and comms. We have seen Russian aircraft up against F15's and F16's in the Bekaa Valley in Syria. It was called a turkey shoot with good reason 82 Syrian MIGs shot down and 19 SAM batteries destroyed for no loss. The tactics and success here in 1982 paved the way for the Gulf war success in 1991.

which model syrian migs driven by who


although changing from weapon to weapon  in quality (so not sure)  but in quantity terms China or (NOT AND)  Russia can out number  US in many kinds of weapons.. but lets hope the day when they prove which is better remains unseen.. because most of us wont be that lucky to see the end 

[Rods2]

Syrian Mig 21 and Mig 23's, which are not match for F15's and F16's. Aerodynamically Mig29 and Su27 / Su35 maybe, but they are still at a big disadvantage compared to the US fighters in terms of pilot cockpit ergonomics, shared target designation and handoff, warning systems and weapons. F-22 and F-35 no point in going there as the Russians don't have an in production 6th generation fighter, they will have shot down the Russian aircraft, without being seen. Not that I would want to get into a dogfight with an F35 as its aerodynamic performance is poor compared to an F16, F18 or Typhoon, let alone an SU35, but the point is that with its long range shoot to kill capability, it won't have to.

[cem_devecioglu]

Syrian Mig 21 and Mig 23's, which are not match for F15's and F16's. Aerodynamically Mig29 and Su27 / Su35 maybe, but they are still at a big disadvantage compared to the US fighters in terms of pilot cockpit ergonomics, shared target designation and handoff, warning systems and weapons. F-22 and F-35 no point in going there as the Russians don't have an in production 6th generation fighter, they will have shot down the Russian aircraft, without being seen. Not that I would want to get into a dogfight with an F35 as its aerodynamic performance is poor compared to an F16, F18 or Typhoon, let alone an SU35, but the point is that with its long range shoot to kill capability, it won't have to.

they are prehistoric Rods..  you can compare them to f4 or f104

[tigers_gonads]

Nothing wrong with the Mig 21
A very good aircraft in the right hands and if it has been breathed on by the Israeli avionics industry, it is pretty much as good as anything close in par the F22, Typhoon and Rafale for a tenth of the price 

The F16 is nothing more than a 21st century Phantom with one engine since the yanks insisted on weighing it down with 2 ton of fancy electronics and bombing systems 

The Su27 is a match and maybe more for the F15 and F18 due to its greater combat load and variety of missiles.
The Su35 would wipe the floor with anything other that the F22 (which can't fly above 40000 ft without killing the pilot), the Typhoon and Rafale if you let it get within missile range 

Our CCC is probably better but the Russians are not that far behind.
The Russians have a air to air missile which is specifically designed to wipe out CCC type assets.
It would only take a few one way trips to take out our CCC and we would be blind.

Okay, Nato might out gun Russia but it is not a nato fight 
If anybody went to the Ukrainians side it would have to be us and the French because the yanks under Obama haven't got the balls for a fight.

Sorry, best the Ukraine gets used to the idea of putin and his chums controlling the eastern side of the country because they ain't getting it back   

[Rods2]

Nobody is going to fight a war over Ukraine. I don't think Putin will invade the East, except as a very last resort, as he has very little to gain and a lot to lose if Ukrainians in the East set up a resistance movement where they are the majority. An ungovernable, weak and poor Ukraine will suit Putin just fine.

[tigers_gonads]

Nobody is going to fight a war over Ukraine. I don't think Putin will invade the East, except as a very last resort, as he has very little to gain and a lot to lose if Ukrainians in the East set up a resistance movement where they are the majority. An ungovernable, weak and poor Ukraine will suit Putin just fine.

I think you right on that Rod 

The thing that does worry me is the way the west thinks it can talk down to Russia.
The last thing you do is push a bear into a corner then prod it with sticks 

I fear it will kick off in the medium term and then a whole lot of shit is going to hit the fan 
Western governments come and go every 5 years or so but Putin needs to feel like he is in control or somebody may challenge him back at home.
That would be scary

[cem_devecioglu]

still too early to talk the results and consequences.. only time will tell..

[Rods2]

This is what a former aid to Putin thinks of the Geneva agreement. He considers it worse than Chamberlains Munich agreement in 1938!

http://www.interpretermag.com/betrayal-of-ukraine-in-geneva-worse-than-munich-illarionov-says/

But is the law of unintended consequences about to start biting Putin's ass? Where his treatment of ethnic Russians in Ukraine is raising ethnic tensions in Russia itself.

http://www.interpretermag.com/three-post-crimea-moves-on-the-russian-federation-nationalities-front/

[Rods2]

Is this going to be Ukraine's fate?

http://www.interpretermag.com/to-save-its-revolution-ukraine-must-conclude-a-brest-peace-pastukhov-says/

[Sir Tigger KC]

A strategic withdrawal and full engagement/cooperation with The West might result in a rise in living standards in Ukraine, that could result in the Eastern states and Crimea wishing to rejoin Ukraine. 

However, the Eastern states of Ukraine should be careful for what they wish for and think of how Russia treats it's own separatist states.  Chechnya.   

I don't think The West would encourage such a policy as it may well encourage Putin to cast his eye over other former Soviet states!