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[JamesV6CDX]

I'm 30 years old.

Ive never had a problem or dependancy with booze, and only drink mid strength beer. I've never touched spirits and have never been at work or behind the wheel under any influence.

That said, Ive drank far too much beer, from my late teens to earlier this year. Realistically I'd say a fair bit more than what the government says is safe. It's just so easily done when the majority of your mates you meet in the pub.

Recently I started to become a bit more aware of this and cut my consumption at least in half.

I also went for a liver function test (my Gp did full bloods due to fatigue)

The results came back as perfectly healthy. How can this be? Maybe I'm just genetically lucky?

My doc didn't seem at all worried, then I guess he deals with very unwell drinkers

[Andy B]

I'm no expert ............  but would have thought that you'd have to drink a massive volume of beer, no matter the strength ....... far more than you'd be physically capable of ..... to have a long term liver problem. Spirits though are quite concentrated by comparison.

[bigegg]

define "lots"?
I usually have at least one large (1/3 bottle) glass of wine with my supper every night.
some nights i finish the bottle - and have done for the last 25 years - and my last liver function was fine as well (i'm 42)
There's an article somewhere on the 'net that basically says that government limits were "plucked out of the air" and are probably lower limits for people who are genetically predisposed to liver problems.
up to 3x the government limit is "safe", and - for most people - better than abstaining.

I'll have a search for the article later, unless someone beats me to it.

[cleggy]

I get my annual MOT every March and every year the LFT comes back high for alcohol enzymes in the blood, Kidneys are fine and I drink considerable amounts of Peroni every day 6 x 660 ml bottles. So this year I was sent for a Liver Scan well I was a bit concerned but the scan showed a perfectly healthy liver and lower organs so I went for a nice boozy lunch

I occasional take a sabbatical of about a month twice a year with no alcohol whatsoever.

I read in the Fail yesterday that a bottle of wine or 6 pints a day will do you no harm, good advice I reckon  

[Kevin Wood]

The results came back as perfectly healthy. How can this be? Maybe I'm just genetically lucky?

Or maybe all the scaremongering that we receive about things killing us is complete bo****ks.

As said, if you're drinking beer, you probably can't physically drink that damaging a volume of the product due to its' relatively low strength.

Look at the people in the public spotlight who do have alcohol induced health problems - Oliver Reed, George Best, etc.. We're talking some serious dedication to the cause here, not just a few beers with friends a couple of nights a week. Even then, problems only crop up later in life. At 30, you're pretty much indestructible in comparison.

[Rog]

I'm sure that CEM will have something to say on this 

I had ok LFTs a short while ago, and I am much older than most posts on this, AND I drink way more than advised. There are many factors, genetic, other drugs taken (and I mean stuff like paracetamol) and a whole raft of things. I think nothing of downing a bottle of 14% Merlot and a beer or two during an evening.

Generally, alcoholic liver damage is caused by vast consumption over a very long time. BUT things are different if there is a genetic disposition or hepatitis etc.

Now the sensible response: My goodness, you drink far too much, you must cut down to .001 units a day week 

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

A few years ago my liver test showed a depletion in two different types of enzymes. The doctor said that I should be 'concerned' rather than 'worried'.....

Having said that, I certainly put away more than my fair share of grog when I was younger, so I wasn't really surprised by the results.

[Rods2]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2608193/Bottle-wine-day-not-bad-Leading-scientist-claim-exceed-recommended-does-live-longer-teetotallers.html

A study by a scientist has shown that people that drink up to 13 units a day live longer than those that don't!

Some people are however genetically predisposed to liver problems due to fat or alcohol, so if you are one of the unlucky ones, then it could cause problems. To me for Europeans this is not much of a surprise as in the middle ages we all drunk beer and mead (including children) as contaminated water made fresh water lethal. In Asia for instance where this was not practiced and a large percentage of the population genetically have problems in breaking down any alcohol, so can't drink it. I suspect that there has been some genetic selection in Europe so we have a certain alcohol tolerance. Contaminated water was also why tea and coffee became popular, as it hides the bitterness of boiled water, which was the other way of killing the bugs in unsafe drinking water.

The Government alcohol limits were decided arbitrarily and this whole area has now become politicised, but drinking until comatose, which many youngsters do at weekends obviously has many other dangers and causes vast expense to the NHS, who have to pick up the pieces.

Unfortunately, there have been no very long term surveys that I'm aware of, for people across the whole drinking spectrum from teetotal to raging alcoholics, so there are no statistics. The health Nazis tend to go for sensational soundbites and headlines, like 400% increase in liver disease from drinking for people in their early 30's. This has gone up from 9 people per year to 36, hardly the danger and epidemic that the health Nazis implied!

Now the health Nazis can see the end game of making smoking illegal, the sights are now firmly on drinking alcohol and what many consider enjoyable foods, as they can't have people enjoying themselves, can they, people must learn to be as miserable as they are.

Currently one of our biggest dangers to health an is an epidemic is type 2 diabetes, there were people around when I was a child who were fat including my mother, but none had type 2 diabetes, so what has changed in our diet or environment that is causing this? Passive and active smoking is known to be a factor, but smoking has gone down dramatically in the last 60 years. Plastics are a suspect and certainly in my parents generation, food tended to be loose and put in paper bags at the greengrocers, white paper at the butchers and soft drinks came in glass bottles. High fat, sugar and salt processed food is another suspect. Considering that diabetes cuts lifespan, typically by about 10 years and has some nasty progressive side effects, if not well controlled, including being a major suspect for causing dementia, much more money needs to be spent on research into the causes of this disease.

[Varche]

An old (90's)Spanish guy near us swears that long life is promoted by a quarter of Red wine at lunch and the same at night. So that is half a litre a day. I think he may have a point but walking each and every day of your life will have helped too.

I read somewhere that the liver can regenerate if it isn't too far gone. About the only part of your body able to do so!.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

An old (90's)Spanish guy near us swears that long life is promoted by a quarter of Red wine at lunch and the same at night. So that is half a litre a day. I think he may have a point but walking each and every day of your life will have helped too.

I read somewhere that the liver can regenerate if it isn't too far gone. About the only part of your body able to do so!.

I believe that we can function normally with only 20% of our liver working as it should.

People get caught out because there are very few obvious symptoms to let you know how ill you are...... and by the time you become aware of the problem it's often too late.

[Sir Tigger KC]

Ah well we're all doomed, so keep calm and carry on with a drink or five!! 

[Rog]

It's not just about how MUCH you drink, but also about WHAT . .

I'll explain . . . . .

Decent Argentinian Malbec is actually good for you, regenerates the liver, makes you live longer and actively prevents diabetes

Alcopops, trendy Cider, and overpriced cocktails have a dramatic life-shortening affect.

Good british cask conditioned real ale has the same effect as the Argie Malbec

Poncy mexican beers in small bottles, kill you

There ya go, easy !   

[ronnyd]

The problem is that various ' experts ' keep banging on about units of alcohol etc. but these units were figures
plucked out of the air a few years ago and now are taken as gospel by most in the health and  government departments.
As long as people drink moderately then then hopefully you will be ok. Bye the way, i don,t drink much at all.

[Taxi_Driver]

Currently one of our biggest dangers to health an is an epidemic is type 2 diabetes, there were people around when I was a child who were fat including my mother, but none had type 2 diabetes, so what has changed in our diet or environment that is causing this? Passive and active smoking is known to be a factor, but smoking has gone down dramatically in the last 60 years. Plastics are a suspect and certainly in my parents generation, food tended to be loose and put in paper bags at the greengrocers, white paper at the butchers and soft drinks came in glass bottles. High fat, sugar and salt processed food is another suspect. Considering that diabetes cuts lifespan, typically by about 10 years and has some nasty progressive side effects, if not well controlled, including being a major suspect for causing dementia, much more money needs to be spent on research into the causes of this disease.

But was your mother ever tested for it? How long has testing for diabetes been around? 10/15 years? And unless you show the symptoms or goto the docs on a regular basis....they will never test for it....

[cem_devecioglu]

I'm 30 years old.

Ive never had a problem or dependancy with booze, and only drink mid strength beer. I've never touched spirits and have never been at work or behind the wheel under any influence.

That said, Ive drank far too much beer, from my late teens to earlier this year. Realistically I'd say a fair bit more than what the government says is safe. It's just so easily done when the majority of your mates you meet in the pub.

Recently I started to become a bit more aware of this and cut my consumption at least in half.

I also went for a liver function test (my Gp did full bloods due to fatigue)

The results came back as perfectly healthy. How can this be? Maybe I'm just genetically lucky?

My doc didn't seem at all worried, then I guess he deals with very unwell drinkers

your liver wont show any sign of damage until the last stage.. and when it shows it will be too late for anything.. a real trustable test must include a piece cut from your liver..  but better than that assuming your heart and lungs are healthy, any sports activity can show your liver condition .. your endurance will easily show it..




and as for liver tests based on some specific values measured from blood.. they are bloody useless.. my mother was under hospital care for the last 10 years and her values were perfectly!!! normal..


anyone who wants to bet how much drink will damage your liver will bet on his life so be aware..

[cem_devecioglu]

and one more point : a general habit of using many drugs antibiotics and some other kind of pills harm your liver more than you can guess..


I also must add genetical factors are also very effective..  some babies even born with liver cirrhosis..

[Gaffers]

LFTs measure the markers in the blood which indicate the level of damage to the liver.  A popular misconception is that alcohol alone damages the liver.  In fact it is also the sugars in the alcohol which do as much as the alcolhol itself.  Consuming too much sugar causes, through the metabolic process, their conversion to triglycerides (not simply stgored as fat) and it is this plus other things which affect the liver.

Like all things your genes will indicate how well yuo metabolise the fats, sugars, etc.  So if the markers are good take heart int he fact that no damage has been done.  But keep an eye on it.  I was drinking a lot o beer and my LFTs were awful.  It turned out I my starting to get a fatty liver.  6 months in the stan without boze, keeping off the crap food and training hard in the gym and when I came back my liver was back to normal with a complete reversal of the damage (phew)

Hope this helps

[Gaffers]

your liver wont show any sign of damage until the last stage.. and when it shows it will be too late for anything..

and as for liver tests based on some specific values measured from blood.. they are bloody useless.. my mother was under hospital care for the last 10 years and her values were perfectly!!! normal..


anyone who wants to bet how much drink will damage your liver will bet on his life so be aware..

Sorry that is absolute 'dangle berries' (and dangerous imho)

In nearly every single case of damage to the liver there are elevated levels of AST and ALTs in the blood.  They will not be present for every type of liver cancer, and any absence of elevated levels of these markers where cirrhosis is present suggests incompetent laboratory technicians rather than a false negative being common.

Until you are in the final stages of cirrhosis most liver damage is very reversible, the liver is one of the best orans for regenerating itself.  When yuo donate some of your liver to someone they take a quarter, because an entire liver will regenerate from it and the quarter taken will grow back.

[cem_devecioglu]

your liver wont show any sign of damage until the last stage.. and when it shows it will be too late for anything..

and as for liver tests based on some specific values measured from blood.. they are bloody useless.. my mother was under hospital care for the last 10 years and her values were perfectly!!! normal..


anyone who wants to bet how much drink will damage your liver will bet on his life so be aware..

Sorry that is absolute 'dangle berries' (and dangerous imho)

1. In nearly every single case of damage to the liver there are elevated levels of AST and ALTs in the blood.  They will not be present for every type of liver cancer, and any absence of elevated levels of these markers where cirrhosis is present suggests incompetent laboratory technicians rather than a false negative being common.

Until you are in the final stages of cirrhosis most liver damage is very reversible, the liver is one of the best orans for regenerating itself.  When yuo donate some of your liver to someone they take a quarter, because an entire liver will regenerate from it and the quarter taken will grow back.

your alt and ast can jump up from so many things so docs generally ignore it..  but at last stages of cirrhosis those values drop considerably..


although its claimed that liver damage is reversible, I have never seen one cirrhose patient coming back from "other side".. sorry..


and as for liver transplant.. they give you lots of immune system supressants .. so even a simple infection can send you to the "other side"..   so success rates are not that nice..   as a result keep healthy what you have.. now.. not later..


and the last thing which I forgot , keep your meals low in saturated fat  which means dont eat big portions of steaks..

[cem_devecioglu]

and other critical factors :


smokers , continue to smoke (ME!!) so that your single artery feeding the liver will be narrowed or blocked so journey to the other side will be asap and inevitable..

[Rods2]

your liver wont show any sign of damage until the last stage.. and when it shows it will be too late for anything..

and as for liver tests based on some specific values measured from blood.. they are bloody useless.. my mother was under hospital care for the last 10 years and her values were perfectly!!! normal..


anyone who wants to bet how much drink will damage your liver will bet on his life so be aware..

Sorry that is absolute 'dangle berries' (and dangerous imho)

1. In nearly every single case of damage to the liver there are elevated levels of AST and ALTs in the blood.  They will not be present for every type of liver cancer, and any absence of elevated levels of these markers where cirrhosis is present suggests incompetent laboratory technicians rather than a false negative being common.

Until you are in the final stages of cirrhosis most liver damage is very reversible, the liver is one of the best orans for regenerating itself.  When yuo donate some of your liver to someone they take a quarter, because an entire liver will regenerate from it and the quarter taken will grow back.

your alt and ast can jump up from so many things so docs generally ignore it..  but at last stages of cirrhosis those values drop considerably..


although its claimed that liver damage is reversible, I have never seen one cirrhose patient coming back from "other side".. sorry..


and as for liver transplant.. they give you lots of immune system supressants .. so even a simple infection can send you to the "other side"..   so success rates are not that nice..   as a result keep healthy what you have.. now.. not later..


and the last thing which I forgot , keep your meals low in saturated fat  which means dont eat big portions of steaks..

It is not only your liver that this affects, but also your heart and the risk of bowel cancer, especially if the meat is flame cooked as it will form ACE (Advanced glycation end) molecules, which research suggests can cause bowel cancer, type 2 diabetes and dementia. Plenty of vegetables, fruit, whole grains and some meat were humans natural diet when we were cavemen, so have stood the test of time in being good for us.

[Gaffers]

your liver wont show any sign of damage until the last stage.. and when it shows it will be too late for anything..

and as for liver tests based on some specific values measured from blood.. they are bloody useless.. my mother was under hospital care for the last 10 years and her values were perfectly!!! normal..


anyone who wants to bet how much drink will damage your liver will bet on his life so be aware..

Sorry that is absolute 'dangle berries' (and dangerous imho)

1. In nearly every single case of damage to the liver there are elevated levels of AST and ALTs in the blood.  They will not be present for every type of liver cancer, and any absence of elevated levels of these markers where cirrhosis is present suggests incompetent laboratory technicians rather than a false negative being common.

Until you are in the final stages of cirrhosis most liver damage is very reversible, the liver is one of the best orans for regenerating itself.  When yuo donate some of your liver to someone they take a quarter, because an entire liver will regenerate from it and the quarter taken will grow back.

your alt and ast can jump up from so many things so docs generally ignore it..  but at last stages of cirrhosis those values drop considerably..


although its claimed that liver damage is reversible, I have never seen one cirrhose patient coming back from "other side".. sorry..


and as for liver transplant.. they give you lots of immune system supressants .. so even a simple infection can send you to the "other side"..   so success rates are not that nice..   as a result keep healthy what you have.. now.. not later..


and the last thing which I forgot , keep your meals low in saturated fat  which means dont eat big portions of steaks..

I have, plenty

[cem_devecioglu]

your liver wont show any sign of damage until the last stage.. and when it shows it will be too late for anything..

and as for liver tests based on some specific values measured from blood.. they are bloody useless.. my mother was under hospital care for the last 10 years and her values were perfectly!!! normal..


anyone who wants to bet how much drink will damage your liver will bet on his life so be aware..

Sorry that is absolute 'dangle berries' (and dangerous imho)

1. In nearly every single case of damage to the liver there are elevated levels of AST and ALTs in the blood.  They will not be present for every type of liver cancer, and any absence of elevated levels of these markers where cirrhosis is present suggests incompetent laboratory technicians rather than a false negative being common.

Until you are in the final stages of cirrhosis most liver damage is very reversible, the liver is one of the best orans for regenerating itself.  When yuo donate some of your liver to someone they take a quarter, because an entire liver will regenerate from it and the quarter taken will grow back.

your alt and ast can jump up from so many things so docs generally ignore it..  but at last stages of cirrhosis those values drop considerably..


although its claimed that liver damage is reversible, I have never seen one cirrhose patient coming back from "other side".. sorry..


and as for liver transplant.. they give you lots of immune system supressants .. so even a simple infection can send you to the "other side"..   so success rates are not that nice..   as a result keep healthy what you have.. now.. not later..


and the last thing which I forgot , keep your meals low in saturated fat  which means dont eat big portions of steaks..

It is not only your liver that this affects, but also your heart and the risk of bowel cancer, especially if the meat is flame cooked as it will form ACE (Advanced glycation end) molecules, which research suggests can cause bowel cancer, type 2 diabetes and dementia. Plenty of vegetables, fruit, whole grains and some meat were humans natural diet when we were cavemen, so have stood the test of time in being good for us.

all agreed Rods

[cem_devecioglu]

for those who do believe humans are carnivores:


 carnivor intestines are normally short/shorter than ours , because meat breaks up and infected very quickly in hot environment.. so it must be discarded quickly

[omegod]

Well thats put me right off my supper of 2 fags , steak sarnie an a couple of bevvies !

I once saw a Gamma GT level of 18000, still didn't kill the person, tis a remarkable organ the liver

[Rods2]

for those who do believe humans are carnivores:


 carnivor intestines are normally short/shorter than ours , because meat breaks up and infected very quickly in hot environment.. so it must be discarded quickly

Chimpanzees one of our closest relatives are meat eaters and eat up to 1 tonne a year. So this suggests that we, like them, are natural meat eaters, but with a main diet of fruit, vegetables and seeds. They hunt the most when fruit and vegetables are at their most scarce.

http://www-bcf.usc.edu/~stanford/chimphunt.html

[cem_devecioglu]

for those who do believe humans are carnivores:


 carnivor intestines are normally short/shorter than ours , because meat breaks up and infected very quickly in hot environment.. so it must be discarded quickly

Chimpanzees one of our closest relatives are meat eaters and eat up to 1 tonne a year. So this suggests that we, like them, are natural meat eaters, but with a main diet of fruit, vegetables and seeds. They hunt the most when fruit and vegetables are at their most scarce.

http://www-bcf.usc.edu/~stanford/chimphunt.html

compulsory meat eaters when other food is not available .. for survival..  however, our anchestors eat meat only when they have the hunt.. I dont think its everyday.. every meal..

[Rods2]

for those who do believe humans are carnivores:


 carnivor intestines are normally short/shorter than ours , because meat breaks up and infected very quickly in hot environment.. so it must be discarded quickly

Chimpanzees one of our closest relatives are meat eaters and eat up to 1 tonne a year. So this suggests that we, like them, are natural meat eaters, but with a main diet of fruit, vegetables and seeds. They hunt the most when fruit and vegetables are at their most scarce.

http://www-bcf.usc.edu/~stanford/chimphunt.html

compulsory meat eaters when other food is not available .. for survival..  however, our anchestors eat meat only when they have the hunt.. I dont think its everyday.. every meal..

Nor do I where I eat a lot of fish and also dishes like cauliflower cheese, poached egg on toast, home made tomato and mushroom pizza, cream of tomato or cream of mushroom soup, although I do use a homemade chicken stock with this and normally just accompany it with plain wholemeal bread or a fish based or cheese sandwich.

A varied balanced diet to me is what is important.

My weakness with high fat foods is mature Cheddar cheese and I tend to eat more fish than is recommended due to pollution.

[cem_devecioglu]

for those who do believe humans are carnivores:


 carnivor intestines are normally short/shorter than ours , because meat breaks up and infected very quickly in hot environment.. so it must be discarded quickly

Chimpanzees one of our closest relatives are meat eaters and eat up to 1 tonne a year. So this suggests that we, like them, are natural meat eaters, but with a main diet of fruit, vegetables and seeds. They hunt the most when fruit and vegetables are at their most scarce.

http://www-bcf.usc.edu/~stanford/chimphunt.html

compulsory meat eaters when other food is not available .. for survival..  however, our anchestors eat meat only when they have the hunt.. I dont think its everyday.. every meal..

Nor do I where I eat a lot of fish and also dishes like cauliflower cheese, poached egg on toast, home made tomato and mushroom pizza, cream of tomato or cream of mushroom soup, although I do use a homemade chicken stock with this and normally just accompany it with plain wholemeal bread or a fish based or cheese sandwich.

A varied balanced diet to me is what is important.

My weakness with high fat foods is mature Cheddar cheese and I tend to eat more fish than is recommended due to pollution.

most oily cheese I'm afraid.. 




and high amounts of phosphor will be a burden on your kidneys to say the least.. (from the fish)

[Vamps]

Why am I not dead then?  6ft 10 stone 56 year old, who drinks far too much Whisky and has already survived Lung Cancer, ignored every health warning in relation to food all my life, and still here..............

[cem_devecioglu]

Why am I not dead then?  6ft 10 stone 56 year old, who drinks far too much Whisky and has already survived Lung Cancer, ignored every health warning in relation to food all my life, and still here..............

56 is not an old age Vamps

[Vamps]

Why am I not dead then?  6ft 10 stone 56 year old, who drinks far too much Whisky and has already survived Lung Cancer, ignored every health warning in relation to food all my life, and still here..............

56 is not an old age Vamps

  Not that Miss Vamps thinks so though.........

[cem_devecioglu]

Why am I not dead then?  6ft 10 stone 56 year old, who drinks far too much Whisky and has already survived Lung Cancer, ignored every health warning in relation to food all my life, and still here..............

56 is not an old age Vamps

  Not that Miss Vamps thinks so though.........

and 10 stone definitely helps a lot

[cem_devecioglu]

I'm 16.2 stone with 1.81 m

[ronnyd]

for those who do believe humans are carnivores:


 carnivor intestines are normally short/shorter than ours , because meat breaks up and infected very quickly in hot environment.. so it must be discarded quickly

Chimpanzees one of our closest relatives are meat eaters and eat up to 1 tonne a year. So this suggests that we, like them, are natural meat eaters, but with a main diet of fruit, vegetables and seeds. They hunt the most when fruit and vegetables are at their most scarce.

http://www-bcf.usc.edu/~stanford/chimphunt.html

compulsory meat eaters when other food is not available .. for survival..  however, our anchestors eat meat only when they have the hunt.. I dont think its everyday.. every meal..

Nor do I where I eat a lot of fish and also dishes like cauliflower cheese, poached egg on toast, home made tomato and mushroom pizza, cream of tomato or cream of mushroom soup, although I do use a homemade chicken stock with this and normally just accompany it with plain wholemeal bread or a fish based or cheese sandwich.

A varied balanced diet to me is what is important.

My weakness with high fat foods is mature Cheddar cheese and I tend to eat more fish than is recommended due to pollution.

I also love mature Cheddar cheese, but, most supermarket brands are so loaded with salt, which makes it bad for
your health.

[Rods2]

High in fat and salt. You have to use some salt in cheese making as it is part of the process and a preservative while it is maturing, but I suspect like most mass manufactured foods it is far higher than necessary.

[cleggy]

Eat and drink what you like in moderation and be HAPPY.
Don't read the bulldog/shitsu cross.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Eat and drink what you like in moderation and be HAPPY.
Don't read the bulldog/shitsu cross.

Wise words from Mr Cleggy.

I don't understand why horse meat isn't sitting on the supermarkets shelves next to to lamb, beef, pork and chicken.

I'd be happy to eat it.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

I'm 16.2 stone with 1.81 m

How tall is that in 'old money', Cem?

I'm six-one and weigh 14 stone. The quack tells me that I should be closer to 12 stone.

Does that make me a fat bastard?........

[Gaffers]

I'm 16.2 stone with 1.81 m

How tall is that in 'old money', Cem?

I'm six-one and weigh 14 stone. The quack tells me that I should be closer to 12 stone.

Does that make me a fat bastard?........

He is just short of 6'

Forget all this bollix about BMI.  I am 6'1, 18 stone and I do Ironman competitions.  The doctor knows not to argue with me on this anymore

[cem_devecioglu]

I'm 16.2 stone with 1.81 m

How tall is that in 'old money', Cem?

I'm six-one and weigh 14 stone. The quack tells me that I should be closer to 12 stone.

Does that make me a fat bastard?........

from the time I start reading in engineering lessons in METU (school mostly guided by Americans when it was founded and all lessons-books in English except history) I hated all those inch feet lb units   and still..

[cleggy]

Eat and drink what you like in moderation and be HAPPY.
Don't read the bulldog/shitsu cross.

Wise words from Mr Cleggy.

I don't understand why horse meat isn't sitting on the supermarkets shelves next to to lamb, beef, pork and chicken.

I'd be happy to eat it.

Tastes fine, had some in Belgium. Don't know why it's a problem so long as it's labelled correctly, I bet if some ponsy chef cooked some on TV the value of horses would rocket.

[Sir Tigger KC]

Eat and drink what you like in moderation and be HAPPY.
Don't read the bulldog/shitsu cross.

Wise words from Mr Cleggy.

I don't understand why horse meat isn't sitting on the supermarkets shelves next to to lamb, beef, pork and chicken.

I'd be happy to eat it.

Tastes fine, had some in Belgium. Don't know why it's a problem so long as it's labelled correctly, I bet if some ponsy chef cooked some on TV the value of horses would rocket.

We are pretty conservative when it comes to meat in this country. 

Goat is lovely  and what about Rabbit?    That should be really cheap as they breed like.... 

Rat curry anyone?   

[cem_devecioglu]

liver function tests to Rat curry


very healthy