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[badmuver]

Should the UK leave the eu or leave  and use the money they save to put back into the UK?

[Rods2]

The main reasons why we should leave are:

That we don't need to be ruled by a foreign power to trade in Europe, the EU is undemocratic and this matters. In a multiparty democracy, elected politicians have to face the ballot box, this stops them straying too far from a middle path and doing the best for the overall wealth and health of their citizens. Many of the EU economically damaging policies would not see the light of day if the European commission and their civil servants (the only people allowed to introduce legislation into the European Parliament) had to face the electorate through the ballot box. Likewise, they would not be stuffed with failed politicians like Neil Kinnock, Peter Mandelson etc, or useless jobsworths like Lady Ashton.

A country's sovereignty is like virginity, it is something you either have or you don't. If you do and use it wisely to look after your citizens they benefit. If you don't, you are relying on other nations, with their own priorities to look after you (they won't).

Name one rich country that is not a multiparty democracy based on capitalism. The simple answer is that there isn't one. The UK took a world lead from the 16th century, with a Royal family dictatorship turning into parliamentary democracy and we haven't looked back since.

Europe is getting poorer as a result of the EU and if we allow it to control us until it collapses, we will be a very poor country by then.

[Varche]

Eh?

Should we leave OR should we stay in?

[Rods2]

Eh?

Should we leave OR should we stay in?

Corrected the first line, so it now makes sense hopefully?

[cleggy]

Vote Ukip.

[Gaffers]

From a purely selfish businessman perspective I do not want the UK to leave the EU, it would be a financial disaster for a company like mine.

That said I am completely against serious decisions which neuter the ability to make our own laws and policies without a referendum.  So I would prefer the ballot box to say In, Out and go back to the EEC (the only thing we have voted in favour for in a referendum)

[Sir Tigger KC]

From a purely selfish businessman perspective I do not want the UK to leave the EU, it would be a financial disaster for a company like mine.

Not necessarily as we would remain members of EFTA and EEA. 

The idea that the Liberal's bandy about that by leaving the EU would mean isolating ourselves is bollards in my opinion.    However Monsieur I recognise that I don't know your company's specific circumstances. 

[Gaffers]

From a purely selfish businessman perspective I do not want the UK to leave the EU, it would be a financial disaster for a company like mine.

Not necessarily as we would remain members of EFTA and EEA. 

The idea that the Liberal's bandy about that by leaving the EU would mean isolating ourselves is bollards in my opinion.    However Monsieur I recognise that I don't know your company's specific circumstances. 

heavily linked to a company on the continent, both legally and financially all of which would be significantly and detrimentally affected by the UK leaving the EU.

It would mean losing several jobs from the UK side, times that by god knows how many other small companies and ......

The thing that a lot of people do not recognise is that by the time I retire, countries like India and China will be outsourcing to countries like ours, in stark contrast to today's situation.  Currently 6/7th in world economies we will be in the 20s by the time I am taking advantage of the state and military pension.

I think that is much more important to focus on rather than nationalistic politics.  That said, I stand by my comment that we should have had the choice to have ended up with out current arrangement with the EU.  As it stands we were sold the EEC and we then found ourselves in the EU without being asked.  Put right that small fact and things will be very different politically

Dont get me wrong, tomorrow I am celebrating St Georges Day with pride, and making sure my froggy colleagues do too

[Lizzie_Zoom]

From a purely selfish businessman perspective I do not want the UK to leave the EU, it would be a financial disaster for a company like mine.

Not necessarily as we would remain members of EFTA and EEA. 

The idea that the Liberal's bandy about that by leaving the EU would mean isolating ourselves is bollards in my opinion.    However Monsieur I recognise that I don't know your company's specific circumstances. 

heavily linked to a company on the continent, both legally and financially all of which would be significantly and detrimentally affected by the UK leaving the EU.

It would mean losing several jobs from the UK side, times that by god knows how many other small companies and ......

The thing that a lot of people do not recognise is that by the time I retire, countries like India and China will be outsourcing to countries like ours, in stark contrast to today's situation.  Currently 6/7th in world economies we will be in the 20s by the time I am taking advantage of the state and military pension.

I think that is much more important to focus on rather than nationalistic politics.  That said, I stand by my comment that we should have had the choice to have ended up with out current arrangement with the EU.  As it stands we were sold the EEC and we then found ourselves in the EU without being asked.  Put right that small fact and things will be very different politically

Dont get me wrong, tomorrow I am celebrating St Georges Day with pride, and making sure my froggy colleagues do too

Agreed.  We should stay in and change the EU from within.  Leaving will do the UK much commercial damage, and leave us in a situation where we can alter nothing that happens in Europe that could do us immense damage.

The great man Winston Churchill lobbied for a United States of Europe, and the reasons for that are still valid.  Let's not chuck the baby out with the bath water

[Varche]

I don't get the damage argument.

Britain buys far more from Europe than it sells, ergo they need us more than we need them. In the grand scheme of things there will be a few casulaties but only a few. As said earlier we would still be in EFTA and EEA.

IF I got a vote on it I would vote for out even as an expat living in another country. I don't believe that any ramifications would impact on expats.

The EU passed 907 laws last year and a few days ago I knew the most important one. Do you know I have already forgotten it! (I think it was bank guarantees)

[2woody]

so what if it causes financial damage to the UK ?

it would still be worth leaving.

I'd happily give up my job to be out of the EU

[Varche]

From a purely selfish businessman perspective I do not want the UK to leave the EU, it would be a financial disaster for a company like mine.

Not necessarily as we would remain members of EFTA and EEA. 

The idea that the Liberal's bandy about that by leaving the EU would mean isolating ourselves is bollards in my opinion.    However Monsieur I recognise that I don't know your company's specific circumstances. 

heavily linked to a company on the continent, both legally and financially all of which would be significantly and detrimentally affected by the UK leaving the EU.

It would mean losing several jobs from the UK side, times that by god knows how many other small companies and ......

The thing that a lot of people do not recognise is that by the time I retire, countries like India and China will be outsourcing to countries like ours, in stark contrast to today's situation.  Currently 6/7th in world economies we will be in the 20s by the time I am taking advantage of the state and military pension.

I think that is much more important to focus on rather than nationalistic politics.  That said, I stand by my comment that we should have had the choice to have ended up with out current arrangement with the EU.  As it stands we were sold the EEC and we then found ourselves in the EU without being asked.  Put right that small fact and things will be very different politically

Dont get me wrong, tomorrow I am celebrating St Georges Day with pride, and making sure my froggy colleagues do too

Agreed.  We should stay in and change the EU from within.  Leaving will do the UK much commercial damage, and leave us in a situation where we can alter nothing that happens in Europe that could do us immense damage.

The great man Winston Churchill lobbied for a United States of Europe, and the reasons for that are still valid.  Let's not chuck the baby out with the bath water

I don't get that argument either. Just what sort of situation do you have in mind bearing in mind that Britain buys more than it sells.?

Clegg made great play about the EU trade agreements that Britain would have to "renegotiate", has he not heard of MS Word? Replace EU with Britain and send it off for signature. 

This "staying in the EU" always assumes there will be an EU. The EU still has serious problems with the Euro, Southern States and the Eastern States. Will Britain be expected to pick up bailout costs for the next states requiring help? Will we be buying the yet to be created Eurobonds? Will we help out combat deflation like the Japs have suffered ? We will if we are still In.

[Kevin Wood]

Agreed.  We should stay in and change the EU from within.

It's not as if the EU are particularly sensitive to our wishes at the moment, though. .. and look at the rest of the EU. It consists of nations desperately struggling to get by with the safety net of a possible German bail-out, and Germany. Can't see anyone who's likely to side with us on anything,

Leaving will do the UK much commercial damage, and leave us in a situation where we can alter nothing that happens in Europe that could do us immense damage.

We are already in a position of being a passenger in the EU, so nothing will change. What might make the EU sit up and listen to us, is if they believe we are going to leave. Particularly true of Germany, as they will really end up holding the baby in that scenario. So, regardless of whether you actually want us to leave, we have to make the noises that say we will at this point in time, and see what happens. It's time for the EU to sell itself to us, TBH, and I can't see it making any inroads currently.

[Terbs]

IMO all these arguments about what will happen to us if we leave, is pure scaremongering and nothing else. To you and me, nothing will probably change....but to a lot of people in high places, their gravy train will hit the buffers.
Already, the 'so called three main parties' are panic stricken and doing all in their power to bring up a dirty tricks campaign. Big three is a laugh...UKIP are way ahead of the Cleggs has-beens. Never mind what their own MP's have been getting up to with fraudulent clams etc.
I saw Nick Robinsons interview with NF tonight, and thought good job it was not me he was interviewing cuz he would have got a bunch of fives!!! NF sorted him very well.

[Kevin Wood]

IMO all these arguments about what will happen to us if we leave, is pure scaremongering and nothing else. To you and me, nothing will probably change....but to a lot of people in high places, their gravy train will hit the buffers.

Good point. There'll be nowhere for our failed politicians to go. Damn! They might even stay here!

 

[Sir Tigger KC]

The debate should really be centred on who we are governed by and how we are governed.  For me the argument is quite simple, I want to be governed by people in this country, who have been elected to do so by the people of this country. 

There's a lot of scaremongering going on about the business side of things and I accept that things will be different and maybe difficult for smaller firms, but I think that is a risk worth taking for this country to be the master of it's own destiny.   Anyway businesses will find a way round any obstacles and will continue to trade and do business with other European countries much as we have done since Roman times.   

[tigers_gonads]

The debate should really be centred on who we are governed by and how we are governed.  For me the argument is quite simple, I want to be governed by people in this country, who have been elected to do so by the people of this country. 

There's a lot of scaremongering going on about the business side of things and I accept that things will be different and maybe difficult for smaller firms, but I think that is a risk worth taking for this country to be the master of it's own destiny.   Anyway businesses will find a way round any obstacles and will continue to trade and do business with other European countries much as we have done since Roman times. 

Spot on that lot 

My parents voted for the common market, not a federal European state.

Vote UKIP because the mainstream political parties in this country no longer represent the people of this country, they represent there own small club and the rest of the country can get to opps as far as they are concerned. 
We need a total change from what we have suffered over the last 40 years or so if only to change the political landscape

[badmuver]

sorry about the spelling 

[78bex]

I`m dithering. We`re all living in a democracy, this means everybody gets what nobody wants.
 Just look at that bunch of monkeys in Downing street. I never voted for a Tory/liberal coalition but that`s what I got . Do you really think that these self serving A-holes have my best interests at heart, no they don`t & they don`t have yours either. Leave Europe & I can see yet another excuse for a massive round of price hikes heading our way on fuel, gas you name it. I`m open to being bribed, if UKIP promised me cast iron guarantees on slashing my taxes by half on the money saved from not paying into Brussels I`d vote for them tomorrow.
Will they do that     

[chrisgixer]

Depends what your opinion is based on. As a joe bloggs man in the street, which is the majority, opinion is not going to be good as the benefits aren't handed down in many peoples eyes. In fact most of the dirty end of the stick seems to be all that's available.

Yet those perceived as in positions of power will likely see benefits of staying in.

But given the general distrust of any senior figure or powers that be by Joe Bloggs, senior figures need to hand down some benefits or risk loosing out, and the sooner they sort that out the better.


Thing is, given the woeful state of management on even the smallest level, sorting out the eu so everyone/more people are happy with it will take longer than most if our life times. By the looks.

[omega3000]

Get out of the EU ... too many self serving pigs at the trough  All the mainstream parties want us to be in it because there all in the same self serving trough 

[cleggy]

Get out of the EU ... too many self serving pigs at the trough  All the mainstream parties want us to be in it because there all in the same self serving trough 

My thoughts entirely

VOTE UKIP

[Dodge]

What everyone is forgetting is that initially there were certain standards that were set for EU membership and for the monetary union.
The idea was that there would be stability and strength in numbers. The problem is that these standards or criteria were "relaxed" so that certain member states could join.
The likes of Greece, Spain, Portugal,and Ireland were allowed membership as they were deemed to be "On their way" to meeting the criteria even though they had not actually achieved many of the said standards.
Now that they are member states, their recovery is hampered by poor taxation collection systems and weak economies and have to be bailed out by the richer member states or China.
It's a simple matter of averages, strong member states offer stability but equally, if you have weak member states it makes it harder for the EU to recover as a whole, and that is purely from a financial view point.
Member of the EEC was about trading links (I think!) but membership of the EU was so much more.
I don't believe that we need to be a member of the EU to maintain trading links but I think that Germany and France would probably spit their dummies out should the UK leave.
Don't forget the EU wanted to put a taxation on financial transactions which would have meant we would be sending even more money East to support the weaker member states or to be wasted on EU bureaucracy.
As for the Euro, it's a no go area and is likely to be for the UK for many years to come.
But what do I know, I drive for a living!