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[GrahamK]

This may be a daft question- go easy

I've got a new pair of Sachs springs for the front of my car. From reading the forum, I understand that UK cars had equal length front springs, but I could not find a named pair of springs like that for sale.
I got the Sachs ones and they are different lengths. They are marked as Right and Left, with the left one the longer.
As my car is RH drive should I consider changing the longer spring to the drivers side? or there other weight/loading issues that determine it should remain on the left?
The car is a 2.6 CDX saloon.
Any thoughts much appreciated.
Graham.

[Nick W]

This may be a daft question- go easy

I've got a new pair of Sachs springs for the front of my car. From reading the forum, I understand that UK cars had equal length front springs, but I could not find a named pair of springs like that for sale.
I got the Sachs ones and they are different lengths. They are marked as Right and Left, with the left one the longer.
As my car is RH drive should I consider changing the longer spring to the drivers side? or there other weight/loading issues that determine it should remain on the left?
The car is a 2.6 CDX saloon.
Any thoughts much appreciated.
Graham.

Realistically, I doubt you'll ever notice a difference. But as it makes no change to the work, put the longer spring on the driver's side

[GrahamK]

Thanks Nick,

Interestingly, I've just checked the old springs which clearly are GM (brown Spots) and they are unequal lengths. Sadly, I don't know which was fitted where. DOH!

I don't wish to over complicate this, but the battery is pretty heavy?

Regards,

Graham.

[Nick W]

Thanks Nick,

Interestingly, I've just checked the old springs which clearly are GM (brown Spots) and they are unequal lengths. Sadly, I don't know which was fitted where. DOH!

I don't wish to over complicate this, but the battery is pretty heavy?

Heavier than you are?    The other side has the airfilter and coolant tank, which can't be much different to the battery.

[GrahamK]

I'm definitely worth a few batteries.

[Doctor Gollum]

Drivers side makes sense, although left hookers definitely need it as they've battery AND a fat german... 

[johnnydog]

Without throwing any proverbial spanner in the works, a longer spring doesn't necessarily mean it is firmer or a stronger spring.
Inconsistant spring wire diameter, number of coils and spring poundage are all factors.
Front springs on the Omega iirc are a contant spring wire diameter, which eases the headache slightly.
To maintain a constant ride height between left and right with different springs lengths, the lb2 of the two springs needs to be established.
In my experience, a firmer spring giving the same ride height, has a different numbers of working coils, or a thicker wire diameter - invariably a firmer spring is shorter in length as it doesnt compress as much.
With varying spring lengths, the aim is to have a level ride height - left and right.
If there is an increased load on one particular side, then that side needs to be the firmer of the two. If the coil diameter, and number of working coils differs on each spring, then you can't simply go off the free length to establish which is the stronger spring.
I am surprised that there isnt more manufacturers clarity regarding their fitment  with LHD or RHD vehicles as there obviously is a difference, but I personally would do some more checks prior to fitting. Like I say, a longer or shorter spring doesn't necessarily indicate a stronger or softer spring.
If you are certain that the only difference between the two is the free length, and the wire diameter is identical, the number of coils over the two lengths on a pro rata basis is correct, you could logically then assume that the longer spring is the firmer, but there is a lot more to it than just the length and number of coils in detetmining a springs strength.
As far as I can tell, the correct UK spec springs for your 2.6 from Vauxhall are part no. 90541754, which come as a 'set', and therefore ought to have markings to indicate LH or RH.
Just my thoughts....

[LC0112G]

As far as I can tell, the correct UK spec springs for your 2.6 from Vauxhall are part no. 90541754, which come as a 'set', and therefore ought to have markings to indicate LH or RH.
Just my thoughts....

The RHD 'sets' have two identical springs, so it doesn't matter which way around you fit them.

It's the LHD 'sets' that have two different springs, and therefore on a LHD car it matters which one goes where. Aftermarket spring sets appear to be primarily aimed at the European market, and therefore have two different springs.

When I did mine I purposely bought two identical springs rather than fit different euro-spec ones.

[johnnydog]

From a simplistic point of view, I have never understood why the front spring rates should vary from LH and RH.
Graham states he understood UK spec cars were the same spring; this makes perfect sense in reality, and that it was only LHD vehicles that had different springs fitted for whatever reason.
The weight of a battery, a 'fat German' (not my words ) or any other component ought not make any noticable difference on a cars suspension. The engineers at the time must have had their reasons, but I would suggest the differences are minimal. If it was that critical, then surely there would be strict guidance on how (or not to) load a vehicle in the handbook, as it doesnt take much to add a similar weight to any or all of these 'components' in any car. The only possible exception to this in the handbook being the reference to tyre pressures when loaded.
I'd be inclined to fit a identical pair rather than faff around worrying whether the correct spring is fitted to either right or left.
The strut body is surely the same dimensions left or right, so it shouldn't theorectically be an issue fitting identical springs imho.

[Doctor Gollum]

There's a more weight on the left of an LHD Omega...

You've the steering box and brake servo, and add in the battery that's actually quite a lot more weight relatively speaking.

On a RHD car the brakes and steering box is offset by the weight/position of the battery.

The geometry assumes that weight of load (passengers/cargo) is spread evenly by all four corners

[Doctor Gollum]

Had the question been asked prior to ordering parts, then the advice would have been to fit a pair of identical springs to the front, and the hassle of returning the purchased pair notwithstanding, that would still be the ideal course of action. 

[Nick W]

From a simplistic point of view, I have never understood why the front spring rates should vary from LH and RH.

I'd be inclined to fit a identical pair rather than faff around worrying whether the correct spring is fitted to either right or left.
The strut body is surely the same dimensions left or right, so it shouldn't theoretically be an issue fitting identical springs imho.

You're not thinking like a German engineer.


They will have weighed each corner, noted that there was a 11.67847474588kg difference(approx) between the fronts, and calculated the tiny difference required between the two spring rates. Having worked all this out, it would be impossible for them ignore it, as fitting identical springs wouldn't be technically correct. That it requires another set of springs with a load of production consequences is irrelevant.


Anyone else would have fitted two identical springs, looked at the car from the other side of the workshop, and called it done. Which is how most cars are equipped.

[GrahamK]

Thanks for all the comments.
I did set out to buy  matched pair of springs but when I ordered them a few months ago, I could not find a pair for sale from A known "named" manufacturer.
This is why I went for the Sachs ones. This does leave me with a decision to make.
Although, I was surprised when I checked the original Springs that I have just removed and they are clearly the original fitted by Vauxhall and they are different lengths.

I am beginning to wonder whether the idea of UK spec cars having same length springs is a myth. I can certainly imagine pattern part makers would decide on a single spring type for both sides as it clearly makes the stocking and selection much easier. Certainly a number of people in this thread have said they doubt it will make much difference.

I would be interested to hear of any hard evidence that the UK cars had same length springs? Mine certainly didn't.

Regards,

Graham.

[LC0112G]

Thanks for all the comments.
I did set out to buy  matched pair of springs but when I ordered them a few months ago, I could not find a pair for sale from A known "named" manufacturer.
This is why I went for the Sachs ones. This does leave me with a decision to make.
Although, I was surprised when I checked the original Springs that I have just removed and they are clearly the original fitted by Vauxhall and they are different lengths.

I am beginning to wonder whether the idea of UK spec cars having same length springs is a myth. I can certainly imagine pattern part makers would decide on a single spring type for both sides as it clearly makes the stocking and selection much easier. Certainly a number of people in this thread have said they doubt it will make much difference.

I would be interested to hear of any hard evidence that the UK cars had same length springs? Mine certainly didn't.

Regards,

Graham.

The lengths after 20 years on the car is a mute point. No way of knowing if either or both have sagged, and if they have by how much.

The evidence is two fold.
1) Both the springs that came off my car carried brown-brown paint marks, as described in Haynes.
2) Haynes describes the markings, lengths and spring rates for RHD cars. I assume they got this info from Vauxhall/Opel/Gm sources.

Did the springs that came off your car not have paint marks? They seem to survive quite well.

[Nick W]

The lengths after 20 years on the car is a mute point. No way of knowing if either or both have sagged, and if they have by how much.

The evidence is two fold.
1) Both the springs that came off my car carried brown-brown paint marks, as described in Haynes.
2) Haynes describes the markings, lengths and spring rates for RHD cars. I assume they got this info from Vauxhall/Opel/Gm sources.

Did the springs that came off your car not have paint marks? They seem to survive quite well.

That's almost exactly what I was going to post, although I wouldn't have hedged with the if. Measuring the ride height usually proves this; some stock(albeit cheap) new springs brought the front of my 180,000 mile car up by 30mm and stopped it being the wallowing pig that it had been. Lots of Some people replace shocks, but they rarely change springs unless the things are actually broken.


You can test what they are now, with some bathroom scales and a press. That's only really useful if you're intending to order some custom springs.

[GrahamK]

Hi folks,

I not wanting to rubbish any views on here, just interested in where they come from.

The springs off my car were the brown spotted ones, which are likely to be the originals, I think.

I've looked again at the Haynes manual and it does say brown spotted for the later V6's and just one spring length is given (373mm from memory)

I also take the point that the fitted springs could have sagged unevenly. But worth thinking about that the difference in length is almost exactly the same as the difference on the new ones?
Graham.

[johnnydog]

Having gone through different spring ratings on classic cars, and the headaches fitting non genuine / aftermarket brings, and more appropriately on here, fitting non VX rear springs (self levelling in my case) which can result in a Santa Pod lookalike dragster syndrome as many aftermarket suppliers list 'one spring fits all' malarky .......why did you want to fit new front springs in the first place? I appreciate that you may have had the struts dismantled for other work, but were you of the opinion that your front springs were shot at? If you were happy with their performance,  they weren't excessively rusted (which I doubt as you mentioned the brown spots), or the ride height was lower than original because of weak springs, I personally would refit the originals, or replace with genuine new originals (which I appreciate maybe like looking for the proverbial rocking horse s**t).
No doubt this will bring the usual comments, but relative to suspension springs, I am a firm believer of fitting genuine / originals wherever possible to maintain the correct ride height.
I'd be tempted to refit the originals if there was no obvious problem with them.

[Enceladus]

If your springs are both marked brown & brown then they were the same length when they were installed at the factory. Haynes says these are 373mm. Yours have sagged over the years.

Are your springs Sachs 997-715 (right 360mm) and 997-716 (left 380mm)? In which case they are left hand drive market springs.

[addy]

I have read this with interest. As my front coil spring on right side is snapped. Confirmed by diagnosis by GastronomicKleptomaniac, when he came round to see what the rattle was.  I will obviously be changing the both sides. Would I be looking at using the same coil for both sides. For example I have been looking at some KYB's the longer one is the Left coil

Length                        376 mm
Outer diameter             161 mm
Paired article numbers    RC1539
Thickness/Strength 1     14.25 mm

The right coil is
Length                    358 mm
Outer diameter            163 mm
Paired article numbers   RC1540
Thickness/Strength 1    14 mm

So would I be better buying two left coil springs for my RHD 2.6 Omega, to bring it close to original spec. And would it affect the handling, with the camber on the roads?

Thanks for all the help. Look forward to everyones replies.  It is typical, GastronomicKleptomaniac did the timing belt, then the front coil spring drivers side, snaps. 

 Addy

[Nick W]

Addy,
buy a pair of V6 springs from your preferred supplier. If one spring is longer, fit it to the driver's side. If they're the same, just fit them.


Once you've had a good alignment done, you won't notice any difference either way.

[addy]

Thank you Nick W for the quick reply.  I did ask the supplier and gave, my reg and vin. He replied that the ones in the question below, were the correct ones for my car. Also looked on KYB auto cat, making sure the settings were for GB, otherwise it only finds Omega's in the Opel manufacturer. Even looking under Vauxhall it still showed the two different coils to fit my 2.6. Then after reading this post, thought best to check.  Will go with your reply and fit longer one to drivers side.

Thanks again
Addy

[biggriffin]

 They are different lengths due to the camber of the roads in the foreign..

 Volvo F86/F88/F89 and early F10 and Scania 81/100 series all came with different front springs,  due to the way they build roads.

[TheBoy]

I'd be wary fitting KYB, as all the sets I have fitted to mine have rusted quickly, and snapped.  Probably lasted 2-3 years.

So worth buying something a little better quality IMHO.

[Doctor Gollum]

A pair of the following...

Kilen 20059

Kilen 20060

Kilen 20720

All are V6 fronts, 59 is technically left, but a pair of any will get you two the same length.

[addy]

Sorry for bringing this post back up.  I have sorted a matching pair of Kilen coil springs for the front of my omega on advice from here.  Can the original two bolts, that hold the shock to the steering knuckle be used. I have been looking for replacements, but cannot find any.  I was going to clean up the old ones and replace the nuts with new flanged head ones.  Would I need a Flanged head Stover Nut, or will a normal Flanged head nut be OK for replacement? I have the pitch needed M12 X 1.5 for bottom nut, M14 X 1.75 for top nut.

Thanks for any help.

Addy

[Nick W]

Have a quick look at them for damaged threads, and that they're straight. Then reuse them.


The really important bolt is the wishbone to knuckle pinch bolt, that has to be in good condition and the correct part if it needs to be replaced.

[addy]

Thank you Nick W, for the info, that is helpfull.

Addy

[Doctor Gollum]

Quick observation...

The hub to strut bolts and nuts should be identical... 

The hub to ball joint pinch bolt is smaller and different.

[johnnydog]

The hub to strut bolts and nuts should be identical... 

Both bolts are size M12 x50, GM part no. 90496191, nut is GM part no.90538057.

[addy]

Thanks for the info on the bolts.  I looked at this site, https://opel.7zap.com/en/car/v94/k/0/4-4/ my car is a 2.6.  The two bolts I was looking at are numbered 28 and 29, which I took as the strut to knuckle bolts.

Will look online for the numbers you have given Johnnydog. Just incase mine don't come off, in any condition to go back on.  As the whole front suspension parts look original.

Addy

[johnnydog]

The two strut to hub / knuckle bolts / nuts I believe you are referring to are shown as no.18 and 19 on this link....
https://vauxhall.7zap.com/en/car/v94/k/0/6-6/
I think they are all the same regardless of model.

[Doctor Gollum]

Put simply, you need to read the whole table...

The ones Johhny linked to are superceeded

Also the first two are probably alternaives, but you cannot expand the information or applicability tabs, so you'll be guessing all day...

They're for armoured/hearse...

Like I said elsewhere, it helps to use an IPC that works...

http://www.catcar.info/opel/?l=bWFya2E9PVZYfHxzdD09NDB8fG1vZGVsdHlwZT09Vjk0fHxtY29kZT09VlhNfHxsYW5nPT1HQnx8c3RzPT17IjEwIjoiXHUwNDFjXHUwNDNlXHUwNDM0XHUwNDM1XHUwNDNiXHUwNDRjIiwiMjAiOiJWYXV4aGFsbCAgT01FR0EtQiAoIDE5OTQgLSAgMjAwMykiLCI0MCI6IksgRlJPTlQgQVhMRSBBTkQgU1VTUEVOU0lPTiJ9fHxzY29kZT09S3x8c3Njb2RlPT18fG1uY29kZT09NXx8c21uY29kZT09N3x8aWtleT09Mg%3D%3D

[johnnydog]

The bolt 90496191 I quoted has superseded 90236579; the nut 90538057 has superseded 90496111...

[johnnydog]

Put simply, you need to read the whole table...

The ones Johhny linked to are superceeded

Also the first two are probably alternaives, but you cannot expand the information or applicability tabs, so you'll be guessing all day...

They're for armoured/hearse...

Like I said elsewhere, it helps to use an IPC that works...

http://www.catcar.info/opel/?l=bWFya2E9PVZYfHxzdD09NDB8fG1vZGVsdHlwZT09Vjk0fHxtY29kZT09VlhNfHxsYW5nPT1HQnx8c3RzPT17IjEwIjoiXHUwNDFjXHUwNDNlXHUwNDM0XHUwNDM1XHUwNDNiXHUwNDRjIiwiMjAiOiJWYXV4aGFsbCAgT01FR0EtQiAoIDE5OTQgLSAgMjAwMykiLCI0MCI6IksgRlJPTlQgQVhMRSBBTkQgU1VTUEVOU0lPTiJ9fHxzY29kZT09S3x8c3Njb2RlPT18fG1uY29kZT09NXx8c21uY29kZT09N3x8aWtleT09Mg%3D%3D

Where did you glean this little gem from? This bolt is listed for all Omegas, with the 90496161 part number I have previously given which superceeded 90236579, plus also is fitted to some Astra G, H, Meriva and Zafira models  -  where's the info relating to armoured / hearse models?? ....
Anyway, I can't believe I'm arguing the toss about a friggin' bolt, when the current info is there to see, whether looking at 7zap or Catcar or any other EPC.....
Addy only asked for a bit of info..... its a f...ing bolt (!!!) which is still available for purchase if needed....

[Doctor Gollum]

Here...

http://www.catcar.info/opel/?l=bWFya2E9PVZYfHxzdD09NTB8fG1vZGVsdHlwZT09Vjk0fHxtY29kZT09VlhNfHxsYW5nPT1HQnx8c3RzPT17IjEwIjoiXHUwNDFjXHUwNDNlXHUwNDM0XHUwNDM1XHUwNDNiXHUwNDRjIiwiMjAiOiJWYXV4aGFsbCAgT01FR0EtQiAoIDE5OTQgLSAgMjAwMykiLCI0MCI6IksgRlJPTlQgQVhMRSBBTkQgU1VTUEVOU0lPTiIsIjUwIjoiMzguU1RFRVJJTkcgS05VQ0tMRSJ9fHxzY29kZT09S3x8c3Njb2RlPT18fG1uY29kZT09NHx8c21uY29kZT09LTd8fGlrZXk9PTE%3D

It's not about drumming off the first part number you find Cross reference the entire document to confirm stuff...

As for finding a part, that's the easy bit. Having established the correct part number/s, including NLS, simply search using just the part number, whether that's the GM or Vauxhall or Opel number, and find a seller and buy it. Google, ebay.com, ebay.co.uk and ebay.de all prove to be pretty productive to this end.

Anyhoo, there's actually FOUR different nuts and bolts for this job... 1 NLS, 1 (current) correct EXCEPT Ambulance/Armoured/Hearse, 1 Ambulance/Armoured EXC Hearse and 1 Hearse.

For clarity, when I referred to the 'first two' I meant #28 and 29 that Addy referred to, which are obviously for different steering knuckles as the part numbers are different for Ambulance/Armoured and Hearse, so had Addy ordered them, the chances are that they wouldn't physically fit

[johnnydog]

If you check under front shock absorbers on either catalogue, it gives the two strut body to knuckle bolts / nuts as nos 18 / 19 respectively - both the same size M12 x 50 with the parts numbers I gave earlier.
If you check under steering knuckle on either catalogue, it gives the top bolt (no. 29) as part no 11090822, size M14 x 1.75 x 56 which is NLS, and the bottom bolt (no.28) as part no.11096171, size M12 x 1.5 x 55.
In the Catcar EPC, it confuses matters slightly, by describing the top bolt (no. 29) For Hearse, yet underneath with the same part number states Excluding Ambulance / Armoured Body / Hearse.....
So going back to one of Addys original points, the two bolts may well be different sizes both in length and width in his particular Omega.
I therefore would re use the existing bolts if in satisfactory condition, or use them purely to obtain replacements with the same dimensions for the existing ones...it is unlikely that they aren't the originals from new.