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[korum]

Korum, I understand people's frustrations, which will always come Most to the surface during times of financial hardship, but as I mentioned, the finance issue is not so clear cut.

Btw, don't get me started on the NHS. We can talk about hardship when they:

- close the bloody homeopathic hospitals
- stop spending endowment fund money on artwork
- give over with writing prescriptions for pizza, biscuits and cake
- stop writing prescriptions for antibiotics for viral infections just because stupid people pester for them
- abandon the practice of spending hundreds of thousands on barristers and private investigators to defendnegligence cases for which they are clearly culpable.

Until then, I don't want to hear about a "funding crisis". As far as I'm concerned, the millions spent on the above items would be better off in the EU. I spent the first 3yrs of my working life auditing "post crash" public sector bodies: health, local gov, education. With the exception of colleges and universities, they didn't "get it" then, and I doubt get it now. 

prescriptions for pizza, biscuits and cake dammit i'm off to the docs 

I believe you can add pharmaceutical supply contracts to that list as well but yes the wastage that goes on every second of every day in the NHS is shocking but as you say lets not get started on the NHS it was an example of the financial pressures the populace hear about and therefore use to base their judgement on the EU debate as well as immigrant and terrorists.

Anyway I still stand by my original statement of either in or out we will still get shafted by the powers that be 

[Viral_Jim]

Indeed korum, and I didn't enter into the discussion under the delusion I would change anyone's mind on the issue. As I said before, its all ultimately a matter of belief, not unlike religion in the respect that I can throw evidence at you and you can throw it back at me, but ultimately we will both vote based on our internal compass.

I mean, Sir Tig is flying a Dorset flag FFS, presumably only because we don't know what the Kingdom of Wessex flag looked like  . Its pretty clear where his views lie on the devolution of powers. Me, I'm at the other end of the spectrum, unless it comes to rugby of course. I see first-hand what good the EU does in other countries and think it could benefit us all in the long run. However I understand  that other people believe something different.