Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[dbdb]

Unless I'm not using the search properly there doesn't seem to have been an oil thread for 5 years.   Oils have changed a bit in that time, plus its more difficult to get 10W/40 compared to 5W/40.  So what make and spec is best for a V6 petrol?

Grade: My original manual says 10W/30, 10W/40, 10W/50 for -20C to > 40C
5W/30, 5W/40, 5W/50 for -25C to > 40C
0W/30, 0W/40 all temperature ranges
That's a pretty wide range. My car's done 70+K so I'm staying clear of 0W and would instincively go for 10W/40. However as said 5w/40 and 5W30 seem to be the norm now.  Castrol recommend 5W/40 http://www.castrol.com/castrol/sectionbodycopy.do?categoryId=9024084&contentId=7073092

Fully synthetic or part:  I was thinking of just part synthetic but now fully synthetic seems to be reasonably priced so why not? I assume it lasts longer between changes eg Comma claim so for their longlife fully syn.

ACEA grade:  The ACEA grades are here http://www.acea.be/images/uploads/files/2012_ACEA_Oil_Sequences.pdf
.  Reading that A3 seems to be the best option, A1 not being for high performance.  C (catalyst) grades seem to be best avoided "Warning: these oils have the lowest SAPS limit
s and are unsuitable for use in some engines. " I assume they are aimed at diesel cats.

Make: I note the posts about fake Vaux oils with missing hologram so am avoiding them.  In fact I am dubious about any web bought oil being genuine except those in weird and sealed 4l cans like Castrol. Plus postage for oil will always be expensive even if 'free'.  So am thinking about ASDA fully syn, £20 for 5L. Or maybe the other supermarkets. 

[Jimbob]

Can i ask what you have against Genuine GM Semi 10-40?  £48.26 for 4 x 5 litres? (trade club)

and works brilliantly with these engines with minimal 'Mayo' produced to others like mobil1 and castrol.

[jonny2112]

Surely it's got to be genuine Vx - and even better on TC.
If you have no access I'm sure another local member could help, or failing that, AndyC 

[dbdb]

Can i ask what you have against Genuine GM Semi 10-40?  £48.26 for 4 x 5 litres? (trade club)

and works brilliantly with these engines with minimal 'Mayo' produced to others like mobil1 and castrol.

Thanks thats cheap but I don't have trade club and don't want to pay £25 a year to get it and my local dealer doesn't support TC.  Also it's only semi syn oil.

The mayo is water in the oil personally I suspect it gets there after installation and doesn't pick on particular oils. Weather and use are surely much more likely culprits.

Lastly Vaux/GM don't manufacture oil so it is just a badge on someone elses oil, anyone know which?

[Jimbob]

From memory supplied by Fuchs.

different makes DO suffer mayo differently..

I bet you can find a local member who will help obtain some.

5-30 Dexos2 full syn also available at £73.66 for 4x 5 litres, not that you need that on your car.

AndyC in parts for sale also does mail order...but will be a few quid more obviously

[Nick W]

I'm curious why you think 10w40 semi-synthetic is hard to get. It's on the shelf of any motor factor in the country in bulk. I paid £13 for 6 litres at Eurocarparts recently as I needed it in a hurry.

Hell, even traditional 20w40 dinosaur oil is still readily available.

And I can't deny that the Vx oil on TC is good quality and very well priced, but it seems to have assumed the qualities of a religious artifact here!

[jonny2112]

Maybe so, but quick oil changes are the key, and GM stuff seems to work, and also proves to be more cost effective. Particularly on the V6 where it takes more than 5l at a time.
You'll see that on certain cases genuine parts are recommended and other times not, and a lot of this is based on a wide experience base.
In the end personal choice will rule.

[robson]

It is interesting to hear that Mobil is not recommended I have used it on my last 3 changes and do not get any mayo. famous last words?

[feeutfo]

Afaik the recommended oil for omegas is Gm 10w 40 semi on grounds of cost and quality, as mentioned.

There's also the dexos 2 fully synthetic oil also by Gm on tc.

These two products are exceptionally high quality. BMW do indeed re badge them and sell them at considerable mark up. In fact the dexos 2 is the recommended oil for almost all the major marques. If you care to check the specs.

It represents exceptional value on tc.


I would add, I believe GM hold numerous patents on lubricants. Incl Dexron transmission fluids.

[dbdb]

I'm curious why you think 10w40 semi-synthetic is hard to get. It's on the shelf of any motor factor in the country in bulk. I paid £13 for 6 litres at Eurocarparts recently as I needed it in a hurry.

Hell, even traditional 20w40 dinosaur oil is still readily available.

And I can't deny that the Vx oil on TC is good quality and very well priced, but it seems to have assumed the qualities of a religious artifact here!

It's not difficult to get, I can still get straight 30 even (not for a car).  10W/40 is however less numerous on the shelves now than 5W/40 and 5W/30 especially if you're looking at fully syn.

[dbdb]

I'm wary of dexos 2 all the oils meeting that seem to also be ACEA C3 aimed at particulate filters for diesel cats and have very low SAPS. 

There are lots of A3 B3 only fully syns about though and the GM semi syn is A3.  Just found the GM semi for £9.99 per 5L, with hologram.

[TheBoy]

Absolutely no point whatsoever in putting fully synth into an Omega engine.

The GM 10W40 Semi is well proven in these engines, and dirt cheap on TC. It is supplied by Fuch.

Unlike Castrol Magnatec and some other oils, the GM branded stuff is less prone to mayo'ing, which makes a mess of the V6's breather system. This is not an "installation problem", its an "oil characteristic".

I put my money where my mouth is, and solely use GM Semi in my current 1998 MV6 3.0 and current 2003 Elite 3.2. It was also the oil I used in my 2000 Elite 2.5, 1998 Elite TD, 1996 CD, Rover K series and Kwaka ZX10. Oh, and the mower

[kevinp58]

I'm wary of dexos 2 all the oils meeting that seem to also be ACEA C3 aimed at particulate filters for diesel cats and have very low SAPS. 

There are lots of A3 B3 only fully syns about though and the GM semi syn is A3.  Just found the GM semi for £9.99 per 5L, with hologram.

Ok where share the secret then. 

[dbdb]

On the other hand mobil are recommending their 0W/40 EPS oil http://www.mobil.co.uk/UK-English-LCW/carengineoils_which-oil.aspx which is dexos 2 and ACEA C3.  And they say that GM say Dexos 2 standard is backwards compatible with GM-LL-A-025 and GM-LL-B-025   (i've discovered the GM-LL-A-025 is GM's old standard)  .

And then there's mobil's  'extended life' 10W/60 for older cars but still ACEA A3 spec http://www.mobil.com/UK-English-LCW/carengineoils_products_mobil-1-extended-life-10w60.aspx#.     Looks like a good choice for migs approaching retirement to the car park in the oily mud.                   

[kevinp58]

I'm wary of dexos 2 all the oils meeting that seem to also be ACEA C3 aimed at particulate filters for diesel cats and have very low SAPS. 

There are lots of A3 B3 only fully syns about though and the GM semi syn is A3.  Just found the GM semi for £9.99 per 5L, with hologram.

Ok where share the secret then. 

 Noo wheres the £9.99 GM. 

[VXL V6]

Ebay

[dbdb]

Mayo seems to be a subject in itself.  I never had it for years then it appeared, I had not changed the oil.  On my new mig not had it for 6 months then a little today, just before the oil change.   To me it is simply water in the oil, and no oil I buy comes with water that's why I say its a problem 'after installation'.  Water is everywhere on the planet and especially in the air its inevitable that some will get into the engine and condense.  But I'd be interested to hear the theories behind some oils attracting it and some not.

[kevinp58]

Ebay

I can only find some spurious looking GM genuine oil with what looks like greek writing for that price and no hologram 

[TheBoy]

Mayo seems to be a subject in itself.  I never had it for years then it appeared, I had not changed the oil.  On my new mig not had it for 6 months then a little today, just before the oil change.   To me it is simply water in the oil, and no oil I buy comes with water that's why I say its a problem 'after installation'.  Water is everywhere on the planet and especially in the air its inevitable that some will get into the engine and condense.  But I'd be interested to hear the theories behind some oils attracting it and some not.

And an awful lot of water in an internal combustion engine

Some oils are more prone to absorbing it, thus creating mayo.

[dbdb]

Ebay

I can only find some spurious looking GM genuine oil with what looks like greek writing for that price and no hologram 

Search for 160716260204 or 171011467259.  Do check with them first that theirs has the hologram and they are not just using a stock photo.

[kevinp58]

Ebay

I can only find some spurious looking GM genuine oil with what looks like greek writing for that price and no hologram 

Search for 160716260204 or 171011467259.  Do check with them first that theirs has the hologram and they are not just using a stock photo.

Thanks 

[TheBoy]

Both more expensive than from dealer with TC.

[kevinp58]

Ebay

I can only find some spurious looking GM genuine oil with what looks like greek writing for that price and no hologram 

Search for 160716260204 or 171011467259.  Do check with them first that theirs has the hologram and they are not just using a stock photo.

   


 
    I can recommend the highlighted one as have used them before and it is deffinately genuine. 

[kevinp58]

Both more expensive than from dealer with TC.

Yes but haven't got a TC card

[Broomies Mate]

Everyone who services their own car needs a TC card.  FAKT!

[TheBoy]

Both more expensive than from dealer with TC.

Yes but haven't got a TC card

Worth getting one, or teaming up with a local OOFer who has one

[Steve B]

get down to vx dealer . thats it ..simples 

[dbdb]

Both more expensive than from dealer with TC.

Not when you include delivery - 4 x 5l £49.95 delivered next day v £48.26 TC and I have to drive 15 miles thru london to get it.  I'm finding this with other items too, eg spin on filter £1.75 delivered, how much is that on TC?  How much is the spin on adapter (PartNumber: 90412159) on TC, is it even available?  So I think shopping around may be better than £25 a year for a card.

[mmcg]

I get the 205 ltr drum of 10w40 on trade club for 300 euros.

[tidla]

I get the 205 ltr drum of 10w40 on trade club for 300 euros.

Get a cracking deal on a summer hol in cyprus at the mo for that money

[car5car]

This is a very complicated question for my Cadillac Catera.
there are 3 answers:
1. This a GM car, so only GM oil.
2.  It is a Cadillac, so only oil from Cadillac dealer.
3. It was manufactured by Opel, so I have to buy German oil from Opel.
So, where can I buy Opel oil?

[VXL V6]

You forgot, It's a British engine built at Ellesmere Port. 

[Broomies Mate]

You forgot, It's a British engine built at Ellesmere Port. 

Shhhhhhh!  We try to keep that a secret! 

[tidla]

quantum 5/40 in mine.

specially for the cold.

[dbug]

So the £9.99 deal on 5 lits GM 10W40 oil (171011467259) is actually plus £5.99 P&P - thats £15.98, or £63.92 for 4 x 5 lits - thats not a good deal mate    Oh dear

Paid less than that for 4 x 5 Lits fully synth Dexos2 5W30 GM oil (for the Jag).

TC rules ok

[dbdb]

So the £9.99 deal on 5 lits GM 10W40 oil (171011467259) is actually plus £5.99 P&P - thats £15.98, or £63.92 for 4 x 5 lits - thats not a good deal mate    Oh dear

Paid less than that for 4 x 5 Lits fully synth Dexos2 5W30 GM oil (for the Jag).

TC rules ok

Its £9.99 if you collect it like you would from TC.  OR  4 x 5l £49.95 delivered next day for the other ebay listing.

I wouldn't get 30 grade seems to me it's that low to save petrol not your engine.  Min 40 and Mobil are promoting 60 for older engines.   

I'm still concerned that dexos 2 with its ACAE C3 rating ("Warning: these oils have the lowest SAPS limits and are unsuitable for use in some engines") may not be good for our migs, poss same for the jag unless it is DPF.   

[Seth]

Not when you include delivery - 4 x 5l £49.95 delivered next day v £48.26 TC and I have to drive 15 miles thru london to get it.  I'm finding this with other items too, eg spin on filter £1.75 delivered, how much is that on TC?  How much is the spin on adapter (PartNumber: 90412159) on TC, is it even available?  So I think shopping around may be better than £25 a year for a card.

'Tis your choice ... have you tried your local Happy Shopper?

(Maybe time for a little breather from this forum me thinks)

[dbug]

So the £9.99 deal on 5 lits GM 10W40 oil (171011467259) is actually plus £5.99 P&P - thats £15.98, or £63.92 for 4 x 5 lits - thats not a good deal mate    Oh dear

Paid less than that for 4 x 5 Lits fully synth Dexos2 5W30 GM oil (for the Jag).

TC rules ok

Its £9.99 if you collect it like you would from TC.  OR  4 x 5l £49.95 delivered next day for the other ebay listing.

I wouldn't get 30 grade seems to me it's that low to save petrol not your engine.  Min 40 and Mobil are promoting 60 for older engines.   

I'm still concerned that dexos 2 with its ACAE C3 rating ("Warning: these oils have the lowest SAPS limits and are unsuitable for use in some engines") may not be good for our migs, poss same for the jag unless it is DPF.   

West Yorkshire is a long way to go to save £5.99 P&P mate - too far for me, maybe ok for you from London though    

Understand what you're saying Seth

[dbdb]

So the £9.99 deal on 5 lits GM 10W40 oil (171011467259) is actually plus £5.99 P&P - thats £15.98, or £63.92 for 4 x 5 lits - thats not a good deal mate    Oh dear

Paid less than that for 4 x 5 Lits fully synth Dexos2 5W30 GM oil (for the Jag).

TC rules ok

Its £9.99 if you collect it like you would from TC.  OR  4 x 5l £49.95 delivered next day for the other ebay listing.

I wouldn't get 30 grade seems to me it's that low to save petrol not your engine.  Min 40 and Mobil are promoting 60 for older engines.   

I'm still concerned that dexos 2 with its ACAE C3 rating ("Warning: these oils have the lowest SAPS limits and are unsuitable for use in some engines") may not be good for our migs, poss same for the jag unless it is DPF.   

West Yorkshire is a long way to go to save £5.99 P&P mate - too far for me, maybe ok for you from London though    

Understand what you're saying Seth

Thats why I'd go for the free next day delivery

[dbug]

So the £9.99 deal on 5 lits GM 10W40 oil (171011467259) is actually plus £5.99 P&P - thats £15.98, or £63.92 for 4 x 5 lits - thats not a good deal mate    Oh dear

Paid less than that for 4 x 5 Lits fully synth Dexos2 5W30 GM oil (for the Jag).

TC rules ok

Its £9.99 if you collect it like you would from TC.  OR  4 x 5l £49.95 delivered next day for the other ebay listing.

I wouldn't get 30 grade seems to me it's that low to save petrol not your engine.  Min 40 and Mobil are promoting 60 for older engines.   

I'm still concerned that dexos 2 with its ACAE C3 rating ("Warning: these oils have the lowest SAPS limits and are unsuitable for use in some engines") may not be good for our migs, poss same for the jag unless it is DPF.   

West Yorkshire is a long way to go to save £5.99 P&P mate - too far for me, maybe ok for you from London though    

Understand what you're saying Seth

Thats why I'd go for the free next day delivery

But thats not £9.99 for 5 lits so why post it up as a great find    The £9.99 price is totally irrelevent to  the argument mate

[dbdb]

duh.  I wasn't having an argument, you obviously are . 

I put two prices up, first was for £9.99 collected.  Remind me, TC involves collection doesn't it?  Second price one was £49.95 for 4x5L free next day delivery.  Easily beats the TC price unless you live over a TC accepting dealer (and many don't accept TC). 

Why is it that TC card holders seem to think their £25 a year is the best thing they've ever spent and shout down anyone who doesn't want to?

[OmegaAnglesey]

eBay can be good sometimes got my GM oil last year at a pretty good price...



 

[car5car]

You forgot, It's a British engine built at Ellesmere Port. 

Really? I didn't know that.
Can somebody call them and ask, why they marked cam caps on right head "L" and on left head "R"?? Some engineer was really drunk, designing 3.0 engine.

[tunnie]

duh.  I wasn't having an argument, you obviously are . 

I put two prices up, first was for £9.99 collected.  Remind me, TC involves collection doesn't it?  Second price one was £49.95 for 4x5L free next day delivery.  Easily beats the TC price unless you live over a TC accepting dealer (and many don't accept TC). 

Why is it that TC card holders seem to think their £25 a year is the best thing they've ever spent and shout down anyone who doesn't want to?

Over the life of this forum and previous, they have proved their worth, countless times, they pay for themselves with just one trip to the dealer. Get a set of front discs with pads and its paid for itself already.

[Jimbob]

You dont have to pay for a TC card..

A friendly chat at your dealer is often all it takes...remember its going to get them a customer and make money.

Round here if you ask they will put any purchase on a cash only account for a large aeronautical company
Heresay, says most other dealers are the same.

That said, they gave me a card, in my own name, with a proper account and credit limit!  all free!

They are often out and about and will deliver if you ask,
Worst case, andyc will sell anything he can, as cheap as he can, and has reasonable delivery charges.

For the record, I am not pro VX parts, but where they make good car and economic sense...its what I buy.
Rest of the time, its the best I can get from factors / ebay depending on the part.
Gearbox bits - Jpat (and oils from OPIE, providing a good offer on to keep them competitive)
Suspensions bits - allgermanparts.
Both Very helpful friendly companies, who offer good parts, price and service.

[dbug]

duh.  I wasn't having an argument, you obviously are . 

I put two prices up, first was for £9.99 collected. Remind me, TC involves collection doesn't it?  Second price one was £49.95 for 4x5L free next day delivery.  Easily beats the TC price unless you live over a TC accepting dealer (and many don't accept TC). 

Why is it that TC card holders seem to think their £25 a year is the best thing they've ever spent and shout down anyone who doesn't want to?

Yep from West Yorkshire - a hell of a journey compated to the 5 miles I drive to collect my oil on TC - thats 2/10ths of FA compared to the purchase price for 40 lits of oil (for 2 cars covering 3 services).  Last 10W40 oil I bought on TC was just over £40, and the 5W30 £60 - plus of course 10 miles worth of petrol.  So cost effective compared to Ebay.

Whilst I am there also pick up all other services items required at TC prices.  All spares and cosumables needed for the Omega are either supplied at TC prices or at worst at trade prices.  The cost of £25 pa for a TC is a lot less than savings I get from Vx pa.

If you don't want one thats your decision mate.

[feeutfo]

Why is it that TC card holders seem to think their £25 a year is the best thing they've ever spent and shout down anyone who doesn't want to?

Because your wasting money. And implying, partly, that others should follow. Which might be conceived as bad advice.

It could also be countered with... "Why post on a forum known for its technical advice, then ignore that advice" your choice of course, but it does seem unnecessarily argumentative. You'll struggle to convince most members differently. Tbh.

Tc have a wide range of parts. Some are still rediculously expensive even after tc discount. But many parts, including oil and plugs, are very difficult to beat on price and quality.

But if you feal the need to follow a different course fire away. You never know, you might find a bargain on oil. Might.

[TheBoy]

eg spin on filter £1.75 delivered, how much is that on TC?

The one sat on my Kawasaki's seat to go on the MV6 when I get back home cost £1 inc VAT from the local Vauxhall dealer. Admittedly, I had to collect it, but they will deliver it for free. Trouble is, I'm not at home when they want to deliver it.

As for buying tat of egay, couriers are the bane of my life. The number of times I've had to do a 160 mile round trip to pick up a bloody parcel from the courier depot....

[TheBoy]

Thats not, of course, to say that buying online (or using AndyC) is a bad thing. Far from it (although a lot of tat on egay is fake or old). Its what works for you.

I would suggest that my service items make it worthwhile (financially) to do the 22 mile round trip to dealer to pick stuff up, though I do tend to make the trip worthwhile, stocking up on stuff that I think I'll need in the next couple of months.

Although I normally send Mrs TB in, as its not too far out of her way home from work

[ffcgary1]

I use GM semi synth in my 2.5 v6 and in my 4.0ltr jeep, runs swweet as a nut.

[Steve B]

To the OP..I see today you have argued about oil types..pic-nic about wipers with another member..then you jump in the [omega electrical and audio help] and start going on about mp3  (did I mention Pirate Bay) which got locked...

Can i make a suggestion...........GROW UP 

[dbdb]

To the OP..I see today you have argued about oil types..pic-nic about wipers with another member..then you jump in the [omega electrical and audio help] and start going on about mp3  (did I mention Pirate Bay) which got locked... Can i make a suggestion...........GROW UP 

Well I did start this thread but that's the only thing you have right.  Never argued about oil types, wiper discussion was useful except for one member. Anyway moving on from childish insults here is what I have decided on oil having listened and looked around.  I don't for a moment expect some members to agree but I post my reasoning here in case it helps the majority of members. I'm not posting it to be ripped apart by idiots so start your own thread if you want to do that.

I decided on Gulf Formula G  fully Syn, £19.33 delivered from Opie Oils direct www.opieoils.co.uk.

I went for ACEA spec A3 rather than A1 . A3 is for performance cars. Agreed that may be really be aimed at turbos but I like to think the mig V6 is performance.
I went for fully syn because there seems to be no published data as to what proportions semi syn really is, because I wanted a long lasting quality oil and think the extra cost is probably worth it. Also a lot of the semi syn is only ACEA A1.

I deliberately avoided ACEA C3 spec oil (eg dexos 2 spec) becuse the oil manufacturers pointedly pass responsibility back to the car makers, saying 'GM say the C3 spec is backwards compatible with A3'.  It is or it isn't, why not state it yourself?  In fact ACEA say differently "Warning: these oils have the lowest SAPS limits and are unsuitable for use in some engines. " I believe C3 is aimed at diesel exhaust particulate filters and very modern cats.  Quite a few fully syn oils are C3, especially the expensive ones so that helped me narrow it down.

I went for 5W/40, its in the wide range of the official manual as is 0W/30 but I wanted 40 as I suspect the 30 is to save fuel not save engines.  I avoided the 0W as that seems just too thin for a 70K engine.  I went for  5W instead of 10W as 10W is harder to get in fully syn and I get the feeling 5W is better for cold starts and engine wear from cold. Average oil prefix ratings have generally got lower as oil has got better.

Beware some oil passes itself off as fully syn when it isn't.  An example is Total Quartz 9000 5W40.  The 0W40 version is fully syn and says so on the label but the 10W40 doesn't and isn't and you have to read the safety sheets to find out http://www.quickfds.com/out/16521-10197-25448-012516.pdf.  Also as mentioned it is unclear in semi synths how much is mineral base.

I went for Gulf as it is a major company, actually owned by Chevron - beware oil company branding eg Elf is owned by Total.  Castrol is BP.

I don't doubt some vocal members will insist on GM semi syn 10W40 or even the dexos 2 well don't mind me it's your car put what you prefer in.

I was tempted by 20l of Mobil Super 3000 5/40 going cheap on ebay but can't wait 5 days.  All the top brands were way more expensive than the Gulf syn. If my mig ever starts burning oil I might switch to the 10W60 Mobil 1 'extended life' oil.

Hope that helps people .

[dbdb]

forgot to mention opie oils give forum members 10% off too

[Marks DTM Calib]

Its interesting as my Omega had fully synth (Vx prior to Dexos 2 days) oil from its first change......

[TheBoy]

Dbdb, I believe it does the engine more good to use a cheaper, semi synth and change it more often, than a more expensive one and change it less often.

GM moved to a fully synth oil in the Omegas production, but this was to appease fleet managers rather than an oil that actually lasted as long as claimed.

One of my bro's has been involved in some of the iconic cars over the past 2 or 3 decades, and I remember him telling me about 6 or 7 years ago, they went to the oil providers to get an oil for an engine they had tuned up for a large manufacturer, and no oil would make the 10000 mile service interval they were after. Nothing would last more than 7k.


Not being argumentative, just stating why we recommend GM semi and quick oil changes here

[car5car]

All oils work fine. Engines don't die because cheap oil was used.
I was repairing engines for 20 years, I use cheap oil in my personal cars and flush engines every other time by ATF to keep them clean.
Very important note: It is OK to use the most expensive oil and brag about it.

[dbdb]

Dbdb, I believe it does the engine more good to use a cheaper, semi synth and change it more often, than a more expensive one and change it less often.

Thats a good and valid point.  The more oil and filter changes the better.  However there is the option to use syn and change it just as often.  What I didn't mention is I put some cheap semi syn 5W30 in before the filter change to clean out all the crap oil for a few days before I put the syn in. 

What I'll probably end up doing is leaving the new syn in longer than I would cheaper oil but I have the option to change it early.

Oil technology is always changing, syn seems to be the way its going.